Solsaem Clinic (Dr. Minbo Shim) Experience

[Ed209]

@JohnAdams, I'm not here to argue but was curious if you did an audiogram in the US just before you flew out to South Korea?

Another thing I would add is that in my own experience my audiograms have "improved" whilst doing nothing. My first audiogram was this:

My second was this:

And my latest, which was done a few months ago, was nearly all on 0 (I haven't got a print out of it).

This is the problem with audiograms and unless the correction is considerable and beyond the realm of expectation, I wouldn't put much emphasis on it.

Many others have similar experiences and I'll quote a post from Yoshi below:

The thing with audiograms is that a lot of things can influence their results. You can see how @Ed209's results between two tests differ significantly. Speaking for myself, the three audiograms I've had done this year have wildly fluctuated within a 5-10 dB range. The first audiogram I got showed a 15 dB threshold near 3 kHz with a jagged pattern from 250 Hz to 8 kHz. When I had it done again recently, it was a straight line through 5 dB for all frequencies. Many factors impact your audiogram, such as the presence of wax, anxiety, stress, the equipment used, the tests performed, the frequencies tested, and many else. Your audiologist will treat anything <25 dB as normal though, so you could hypothetically drop from 0 to 15 dB in one frequency, which would be noticeable to you, and your audiologist will still think your hearing is normal if you don't have a previous audiogram to compare with.

The reason I asked if you did an audiogram in the US just before you left is that it would make a lot more sense to compare a before and after that was taken on the same equipment and under the same conditions.

 

[Drone Draper]

That is interesting. I did my last audiogram after I'd come from a HBOT session, which typically spikes my tinnitus. It was also the worst one.

 

[JohnAdams]

@JohnAdams, I'm not here to argue but was curious if you did an audiogram in the US just before you flew out to South Korea?

Another thing I would add is that in my own experience my audiograms have "improved" whilst doing nothing. My first audiogram was this:

View attachment 26560

My second was this:

View attachment 26561

And my latest, which was done a few months ago, was nearly all on 0 (I haven't got a print out of it).

This is the problem with audiograms and unless the correction is considerable and beyond the realm of expectation, I wouldn't put much emphasis on it.

Many others have similar experiences and I'll quote a post from Yoshi below:

The thing with audiograms is that a lot of things can influence their results. You can see how @Ed209's results between two tests differ significantly. Speaking for myself, the three audiograms I've had done this year have wildly fluctuated within a 5-10 dB range. The first audiogram I got showed a 15 dB threshold near 3 kHz with a jagged pattern from 250 Hz to 8 kHz. When I had it done again recently, it was a straight line through 5 dB for all frequencies. Many factors impact your audiogram, such as the presence of wax, anxiety, stress, the equipment used, the tests performed, the frequencies tested, and many else. Your audiologist will treat anything <25 dB as normal though, so you could hypothetically drop from 0 to 15 dB in one frequency, which would be noticeable to you, and your audiologist will still think your hearing is normal if you don't have a previous audiogram to compare with.

The reason I asked if you did an audiogram in the US just before you left is that it would make a lot more sense to compare a before and after that was taken on the same equipment and under the same conditions.

I have no desire to talk to you about my experience and I would appreciate it if you would stay off my thread.

 

[Ed209]

I have no desire to talk to you about my experience and I would appreciate it if you would stay off my thread.

Why?

 

[JohnAdams]

Here's an update:
My tinnitus has moved primarily to my left side. I had a spike that lasted about 3 days but I attribute that to readjusting to this time zone. I always get a spike when I don't sleep well. It has subsided as of this morning and once again, and I know this is subjective, my tinnitus in my right ear is nothing compared to what it used to be. It's my left that was more damaged and I am really hoping my left catches up with my right.

I was going to the clinic every day and alternating ears from day to day. However the last 4 days were all my left, 6 injections per day. I'm not going to downplay it, I was very weary about getting 6 injections in the same eardrum every single day. It was fine though. The holes closed up by the time I was on the plane, my ears held pressure just fine. I would know because I know now exactly what it is like to have air leak out of a hole in your eardrum as sometimes it would happen right after a round of injections.

 

[JohnAdams]

I also, like an idiot, did the valsalva maneuver right after an appointment one day and PRP/blood squirted out of the hole and the next day Dr. Shim had to pull the clot out of my eardrum. That felt good.

 

[Artemis2K]

I also, like an idiot, did the valsalva maneuver right after an appointment one day and PRP/blood squirted out of the hole and the next day Dr. Shim had to pull the clot out of my eardrum. That felt good.

Loss of PRP isn't going to affect things is it?

 

[JohnAdams]

Loss of PRP isn't going to affect things is it?

I'm sure that day it did. The longer it sits in there the better but only a small amount came out. We're talking 1 day out of 12.

 

[JohnAdams]

I'm also taking that 7,8 dihydroxyflavone during my recovery. It's a nootropic compound that supposedly helps generate nerves or something.

 

[vttbx]

There is something called the blood labyrinth barrier which separates the blood stream from the cochlear fluids endolymph and perilymph. To get the growth factors into the cochlea they need to enter the cochlea through the round window membrane which on the cochlea in the middle ear. Growth factors like Insulin Like Growth Factor-1 are secreted by alpha granules that come from blood platelets. This is why the injections need to be through the eardrum into the middle ear.
View attachment 26444

How does Dr. Shim know he is injecting through the round window? Wouldn't he need some type of image-guided device? Thanks.

 

[Drone Draper]

Dr. Shim got back to me. He said my hearing loss is severe (-25db notch at 4kHZ both ears), I think that's not really considered severe (the audiologist I did see said it was mild), but maybe there's a language barrier here.

He's saying $9k per ear. Hmm. I mean, I do have the money (don't hate the player, hate the game), but $18k.... I will wait and see how John improves.

 

[Ed209]

Dr. Shim got back to me. He said my hearing loss is severe (-25db notch at 4kHZ both ears), I think that's not really considered severe (the audiologist I did see said it was mild), but maybe there's a language barrier here.

He's saying $9k per ear. Hmm. I mean, I do have the money (don't hate the player, hate the game), but $18k.... I will wait and see how John improves.

At least he got back to you. I asked him this (which is very reasonable and what people should be asking him) and he totally ignored me. He didn't even have the common courtesy to reply.

My gut feeling is that he preys on people who don't question him or his methods and are happy to accept what he says.

Why is he doubling the price, and why is he telling you that your loss is severe? The language barrier is no excuse. This is a professional environment and we are dealing in large amounts of money and he has absolutely no urgency to explain his methods or even prove its efficacy. It's just plain wrong and he is preying on people's weaknesses (in my opinion). Personally, I think it's a scam and I wouldn't go anywhere near the guy.

 

[gorzakus]

Dr. Shim got back to me. He said my hearing loss is severe (-25db notch at 4kHZ both ears), I think that's not really considered severe (the audiologist I did see said it was mild), but maybe there's a language barrier here.

He's saying $9k per ear. Hmm. I mean, I do have the money (don't hate the player, hate the game), but $18k.... I will wait and see how John improves.

I also have a 25 dB notch, that's not severe hearing loss, it's not even mild hearing loss.
Is considered normal for my age.

 

[Drone Draper]

Like I said, I think there's a language barrier here, but if you were cynical, you might say he was fearmongering.

I'm going to be nice and think it's the former.

 

[Ed209]

Like I said, I think there's a language barrier here, but if you were cynical, you might say he was fearmongering.

I'm going to be nice and think it's the former.

I highly doubt it and if that's true then he is an irresponsible professional. The English translations for words relating to an audiogram should be well known to him, especially if he is consulting people from English speaking territories.

He told you it would cost $18k for normal hearing? That's not even considered a loss in the UK, although there is a small debate around whether 20dB should be the cut-off or 25dB. Regardless of whether he understands what words he's using, he should understand your audiogram and he should have advised you that you have a normal hearing threshold.

Look at my audiograms. In my case, I'm pretty much back to zero from that initial audiogram and I didn't have any treatment. If you went ahead how would you know if it did anything? The margin of error for a standard audiogram is around 10dB anyway.

I'm going to be nice and think it's the former.

I would say he most likely wants your money.

 

[another sean]

At least he got back to you. I asked him this (which is very reasonable and what people should be asking him) and he totally ignored me. He didn't even have the common courtesy to reply.

View attachment 26586

My gut feeling is that he preys on people who don't question him or his methods and are happy to accept what he says.

Why is he doubling the price, and why is he telling you that your loss is severe? The language barrier is no excuse. This is a professional environment and we are dealing in large amounts of money and he has absolutely no urgency to explain his methods or even prove its efficacy. It's just plain wrong and he is preying on people's weaknesses (in my opinion). Personally, I think it's a scam and I wouldn't go anywhere near the guy.

do experimental procedures usually have double blind clinical trials? Did the stem cell clinic in Thailand have double blind clinical trials on their procedure for tinnitus. Just curious. From my understanding this is bleeding edge and wouldn't have trails. I think its more like a lot of people said it worked and kept on doing it.

 

[Drone Draper]

Look at my audiograms. In my case, I'm pretty much back to zero from that initial audiogram and I didn't have any treatment. If you went ahead how would you know if it did anything? The margin of error for a standard audiogram is around 10dB anyway.

Hmm. How much time passed between your first and second audiogram?

This is what his e-mail said:

"I've checked it.

You have rather severe hearing losses in bilateral ear.

I can't select just one ear because the shapes of your audiograms of bilateral ear are nearly identical.

I recommend you getting the treatment for both side of ear."

He told you it would cost $18k for normal hearing? That's not even considered a loss in the UK, although there is a small debate around whether 20dB should be the cut-off or 25dB. Regardless of whether he understands what words he's using, he should understand your audiogram and he should have advised you that you have a normal hearing threshold.

This is what he said:

"You have to stay here for 2weeks.

For both ears, we will treat you everyday, total 12 times.

It will take about 1 and half hours for each day.

You have to pay 10% of the total cost to make a reservation.

If you send it via bank transfer until next Monday, you can set your first day at March 4th.

And you have to finish the whole payment until 1week before the actual beginning day."

I will watch John's results with baited breath.

 

[Ed209]

Hmm. How much time passed between your first and second audiogram?

8 months, the dates are on them.

 

[Drone Draper]

Ah, I missed the date on the first one.

 

[gorzakus]

8 months, the dates are on them.

What did you do in the meanwhile to get a better audiogram?

 

[Drone Draper]

Just realised you're in the UK too, haha. I thought 209 in your username was a reference to the Stockton, California zipcode.

 

[Manny]

Can I just put PRP, stem cells and Frequency Therapeutics in one big ass syringe and inject it into my ear and call it a day?

That's not gonna help, you need to add a Neuromod device into the syringe too.

 

[Ed209]

What did you do in the meanwhile to get a better audiogram?

Nothing extraordinary. I just took loads of vitamins, omega 3,6,9, magnesium, NAC, and cleaned up my diet in general. On top of this, I did regular exercise. I particularly targeted B vitamins for about 6 months solid, but I doubt any of what I did had an effect on my hearing. I tried to de-stress as much as possible, and also tried to take my mind away from it as much as possible as well, because I was completely obsessed with it.

 

[Drone Draper]

*is off to Holland and Barrett*

 

[JohnAdams]

How does Dr. Shim know he is injecting through the round window? Wouldn't he need some type of image-guided device? Thanks.

You can't inject through the round window, it's like at an impossible angle to get a needle through. He doesn't purport to. The round window membrane is permeable to certain molecules and proteins.

 

[Ken219]

@JohnAdams By any chance are you in the military stationed in SK?

 

[JohnAdams]

@JohnAdams By any chance are you in the military stationed in SK?

no. I was asked that though while I was there.

 

[ajc]

@JohnAdams I read about PRP treatments in local paper last week.

How are you going to know if you improved? Audiograms are notoriously inaccurate (two repeat testings in close succession can have different results).

 

[JohnAdams]

@JohnAdams I read about PRP treatments in local paper last week.

How are you going to know if you improved? Audiograms are notoriously inaccurate (two repeat testings in close succession can have different results).

My tinnitus will also go down. I'm pretty sure I will know if that happens.

So if my tinnitus goes down and stays down and my audiograms show an improvemnt where I know my tinnitus tones are then I will assume the treatment worked. I dont consider that to be a large leap of logic.

 

[GregCA]

How does Dr. Shim know he is injecting through the round window? Wouldn't he need some type of image-guided device? Thanks.

Intratympanic injections just go through the ear drum to deposit a compound into the middle ear, in a location adjacent to the round/oval window.

This is accomplished by having your head oriented a certain way such that gravity ensures the adjacency to the window into the cochlea. The permeability of such window is what lets the compound penetrate the cochlea.

That's why you have to hold your head still and in a given position for a while after the injection was done.

I do not know of any procedure that pokes both your ear drum and the round window.