Stem Cell Clinics for Treating Tinnitus?

[Tem]

With my recent setback I think it is TTTS too since I had fluttering in my ear for a while after. Last time I recovered well after a couple months but I started to get a little more pain, didn't cover up again and it just went back to worse than square one.

I really do believe I will improve with time. This is one reason why it will be hard to assess if stem cells will help or not because so many people do improve over time anyway.

I am not taking NAC but I should. I took some racetam a few years ago, can't remember which one but I think it did improve my focus for a while. I am definitely open to taking alternative medicine. I need to focus on those things really. Just the past few weeks I've had extra loud tinnitus and lots of pain makes it hard to focus on anything. I've been drinking a lot of alcohol which probably isn't helping but at least lets me sleep.

Fluttering definitely seems like TTTS, yeah. In a way that's positive, it can be overcome.

I haven't looked much at racetam, but NAC is like a shotgun approach. It's an antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, studies show statistical significance in reducing hearing loss (sadly only if taken shortly after exposure, which would have been nice to learn from a doctor at the start instead of me reading about it months later), and has been used for decades with a good safety record. It also cured a woman of tinnitus during a study that wasn't even about tinnitus.

I also use it whenever I get ear fullness/crackling when I swallow. It's no longer over-the-counter in America but readily available in Australia, and I assume EU. For $20 it's worth a try. The ALCAR I just mix in because I bought it to try, can't say if it helps.

 

[James Connelly]

With my recent setback I think it is TTTS too since I had fluttering in my ear for a while after. Last time I recovered well after a couple months but I started to get a little more pain, didn't cover up again and it just went back to worse than square one.

I really do believe I will improve with time. This is one reason why it will be hard to assess if stem cells will help or not because so many people do improve over time anyway.

I am not taking NAC but I should. I took some racetam a few years ago, can't remember which one but I think it did improve my focus for a while. I am definitely open to taking alternative medicine. I need to focus on those things really. Just the past few weeks I've had extra loud tinnitus and lots of pain makes it hard to focus on anything. I've been drinking a lot of alcohol which probably isn't helping but at least lets me sleep.

If you don't mind me asking, what are your top 3 clinics that you're considering and why? I've looked at DVC, they said they can't guarantee anything for hearing, what did they say to you?

Cheers!

 

[SmallRonnie]

If you don't mind me asking, what are your top 3 clinics that you're considering and why? I've looked at DVC, they said they can't guarantee anything for hearing, what did they say to you?

Cheers!

DVC denied me for hearing but I asked them to treat my back pain and an injury from a cut nerve which causes pain and they were happy to treat that. It's just an IV treatment anyway for everything so just find something on the list that they treat that you have or can fake and go with that lol.

Arizona is for some reason a very good state for stem cells. Innate Healthcare is up there as one of my top picks. Maybe BioXcellerator too, they seem very good. Is the fact that it's in Colombia bad though? Probably not but I have no idea.

StemCells21 is obviously a top pick but I think it might be on the expensive side. It's all expensive though.

The thing all of those have in common is umbilical cord stem cells which is the type being used in the majority of clinical trials and seems to be the most effective stem cell without the risk of tumor. As long as you don't already have cancer, it's apparently safe.

StemCells21 and BioXcellerator both use PRP too. They all do IV vitamins at the same time. So the only differences are how they handle the stem cells in their labs which is almost impossible to verify and you need to just go off patient stories which is hard because maybe they are fake testimonials but you can spot some that are for sure not fake.

Also I'm not sure if the passage number has any effect or not. I'm pretty sure the cells start to expand as soon as the yinject them into you anyway. StemCells21 claim the fact they use passage 1 to be higher quality but I don't know.

I need to get more info from BioXcellerator on the price per stem cell and method of administration, then I will probably decide. Right now Innate Healthcare have the best price but maybe the stem cells are less quality and it's not actually a better price so it's very hard to know.

BioXcellerator have their clinic in Colombia but HQ is in Arizona which is interesting. They add in extra growth factors too. Innate Healthcare also add in exosomes.

The doctor in Innate Healthcare can also do local injections which could be a big plus. I think injections to the meridian points is good. It's been used in clinical trials to treat hearing loss with success. Basically I'm basing a lot of my decision making on clinical trials which is difficult because there is not much research.

BioXcellerator can do about 150 million stem cells for about $20k. All IV for tinnitus, they won't do local injections around the ear.

I find it hard to trust any clinic with the amount of stem cells they say they use to be honest.

I think right now my list would be Innate Healthcare number one, StemCells21 number two and DVC stem number three. That's if Innate Healthcare really are giving such a high dose of stem cells for the price they say.

There could be some other better clinic around the world but I'm not sure. Maybe EmCell is best but I think there's a higher risk of getting a tumor, not 100% sure.

I would maybe put DVC second. I think a higher dose of stem cells, even if it's all IV, it could be better than the lower dose but with some local injections and intranasal. But Innate Healthcare will do all routes of administration with a much higher dose. That is if it really is a higher dose.

I did find one research paper where they injected some peptide in the meridian points behind the ear to try and heal hearing loss and it did help a bit.

If you follow this study, these might be good places to get stem cell injections. I'm not sure if this is where StemCells21 inject or not exactly.

In relation to that study above, I think stem cells release NGF so getting stem cell injections in those points could well be very helpful. I'll send this paper to the doctor in Innate and see if he will do it. He wouldn't do intratympanic injections but he was open to some local injections and was going to consult with another doctor.

The results from that trial seemed good. Doesn't look like anyone ever followed up with anything else from it though. I think it should be easy to convince a doctor to inject stem cells into those meridian points in the trial since it's backed by actual science with results.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Fluttering definitely seems like TTTS, yeah. In a way that's positive, it can be overcome.

I haven't looked much at racetam, but NAC is like a shotgun approach. It's an antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, studies show statistical significance in reducing hearing loss (sadly only if taken shortly after exposure, which would have been nice to learn from a doctor at the start instead of me reading about it months later), and has been used for decades with a good safety record. It also cured a woman of tinnitus during a study that wasn't even about tinnitus.

I also use it whenever I get ear fullness/crackling when I swallow. It's no longer over-the-counter in America but readily available in Australia, and I assume EU. For $20 it's worth a try. The ALCAR I just mix in because I bought it to try, can't say if it helps.

The fluttering I had only lasted about a week after my last setback and is gone now but it's surely linked to the pain in my ear too. Maybe stem cells would be good for healing TTTS but I honestly haven't even looked into it much yet.

I will look into NAC actually, thank you for mentioning it.

 

[James Connelly]

DVC denied me for hearing but I asked them to treat my back pain and an injury from a cut nerve which causes pain and they were happy to treat that. It's just an IV treatment anyway for everything so just find something on the list that they treat that you have or can fake and go with that lol.

Arizona is for some reason a very good state for stem cells. Innate Healthcare is up there as one of my top picks. Maybe BioXcellerator too, they seem very good. Is the fact that it's in Colombia bad though? Probably not but I have no idea.

StemCells21 is obviously a top pick but I think it might be on the expensive side. It's all expensive though.

The thing all of those have in common is umbilical cord stem cells which is the type being used in the majority of clinical trials and seems to be the most effective stem cell without the risk of tumor. As long as you don't already have cancer, it's apparently safe.

StemCells21 and BioXcellerator both use PRP too. They all do IV vitamins at the same time. So the only differences are how they handle the stem cells in their labs which is almost impossible to verify and you need to just go off patient stories which is hard because maybe they are fake testimonials but you can spot some that are for sure not fake.

Also I'm not sure if the passage number has any effect or not. I'm pretty sure the cells start to expand as soon as the yinject them into you anyway. StemCells21 claim the fact they use passage 1 to be higher quality but I don't know.

I need to get more info from BioXcellerator on the price per stem cell and method of administration, then I will probably decide. Right now Innate Healthcare have the best price but maybe the stem cells are less quality and it's not actually a better price so it's very hard to know.

BioXcellerator have their clinic in Colombia but HQ is in Arizona which is interesting. They add in extra growth factors too. Innate Healthcare also add in exosomes.

The doctor in Innate Healthcare can also do local injections which could be a big plus. I think injections to the meridian points is good. It's been used in clinical trials to treat hearing loss with success. Basically I'm basing a lot of my decision making on clinical trials which is difficult because there is not much research.

BioXcellerator can do about 150 million stem cells for about $20k. All IV for tinnitus, they won't do local injections around the ear.

I find it hard to trust any clinic with the amount of stem cells they say they use to be honest.

I think right now my list would be Innate Healthcare number one, StemCells21 number two and DVC stem number three. That's if Innate Healthcare really are giving such a high dose of stem cells for the price they say.

There could be some other better clinic around the world but I'm not sure. Maybe EmCell is best but I think there's a higher risk of getting a tumor, not 100% sure.

I would maybe put DVC second. I think a higher dose of stem cells, even if it's all IV, it could be better than the lower dose but with some local injections and intranasal. But Innate Healthcare will do all routes of administration with a much higher dose. That is if it really is a higher dose.

I did find one research paper where they injected some peptide in the meridian points behind the ear to try and heal hearing loss and it did help a bit.

If you follow this study, these might be good places to get stem cell injections. I'm not sure if this is where StemCells21 inject or not exactly.

In relation to that study above, I think stem cells release NGF so getting stem cell injections in those points could well be very helpful. I'll send this paper to the doctor in Innate and see if he will do it. He wouldn't do intratympanic injections but he was open to some local injections and was going to consult with another doctor.

The results from that trial seemed good. Doesn't look like anyone ever followed up with anything else from it though. I think it should be easy to convince a doctor to inject stem cells into those meridian points in the trial since it's backed by actual science with results.

Cheers for the info.

I guess the advantage of StemCells21 is they somewhat at least try and target the ear in some regard by injecting at the back of it.

Any ideas of the stem cell dose and price for Innate Healthcare?

Will Innate Healthcare inject into the ear?

 

[SmallRonnie]

Full article for NGF treatment for deafness and tinnitus

I don't know why this was never studied further after the good results. Maybe they are not that good? Seems very good to me and repeated dosing will probably help.

One thing they noted was people with milder conditions would be more likely to have good effects from any regen since there's less broken bits to mend.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Cheers for the info.

I guess the advantage of StemCells21 is they somewhat at least try and target the ear in some regard by injecting at the back of it.

Any ideas of the stem cell dose and price for Innate Healthcare?

Will Innate Healthcare inject into the ear?

StemCells21 have a bunch of extra things like oxygen, IV nutrients and laser. Most clinics do a lot of those as well but maybe StemCells21 is better? Hard to imagine a massive difference between clinics but could be.

Innate Healthcare would do a billion stem cells for about $28k or around that. Maybe $26k, can't remember. That's 10x more stem cells than StemCells21 for less price. Innate Healthcare will not do intratympanic injections. He said he wanted to try ear drops of exosomes into the ear and was open to doing local injections around the ear/in the neck. He really wanted to do intranasal since that helps brain issues and then IV too so very similar to StemCells21, just way more cells for the same money. That is if it really is more cells. It could be though, I'm not sure.

DVC is 300 million stem cells for $25k, all IV.

All of what I spoke about just now is umbilical cord MSC.

The doctor in Innate Healthcare says he usually doses 300 million stem cells for someone as a general good dose if he's not totally sure how many the patient needs. This is the same as DVC and it's also StemCells21's highest dose. I asked him what is the max he could do and he said some serious cases he give a billion. A higher dose is more in line with current clinical research which he also pointed out to me.

 

[James Connelly]

Innate Healthcare just replied to my e-mail. 300 million stem cells for $11,500. Almost seems too good to be true...

 

[SmallRonnie]

Innate Healthcare just replied to my e-mail. 300 million stem cells for $11,500. Almost seems too good to be true...

I know, that's what I was thinking too. Maybe it's really like half that? It could be true though. The cell number is so strange because they multiply every time you go to a new passage but these clinics never really say what passage. I think they told me it's like passage 3 or 4 so that's why it's cheaper maybe. Very hard to compare the quality of cells between clinics.

StemCells21 could be in fact cheaper overall since their cells are passage 1. StemCells21 claim that passage 1 is higher quality but I am really not sure. I didn't research it a whole lot.

There is a fair bit of research done on the differences between passages. It's a tough one to decide if the P1 cells are actually worth the extra money. My initial thought is that it's not worth the extra money sc21 want but I am going to read more of the research.

 

[James Connelly]

StemCells21 have a bunch of extra things like oxygen, IV nutrients and laser. Most clinics do a lot of those as well but maybe StemCells21 is better? Hard to imagine a massive difference between clinics but could be.

Innate Healthcare would do a billion stem cells for about $28k or around that. Maybe $26k, can't remember. That's 10x more stem cells than StemCells21 for less price. Innate Healthcare will not do intratympanic injections. He said he wanted to try ear drops of exosomes into the ear and was open to doing local injections around the ear/in the neck. He really wanted to do intranasal since that helps brain issues and then IV too so very similar to StemCells21, just way more cells for the same money. That is if it really is more cells. It could be though, I'm not sure.

DVC is 300 million stem cells for $25k, all IV.

All of what I spoke about just now is umbilical cord MSC.

The doctor in Innate Healthcare says he usually doses 300 million stem cells for someone as a general good dose if he's not totally sure how many the patient needs. This is the same as DVC and it's also StemCells21's highest dose. I asked him what is the max he could do and he said some serious cases he give a billion. A higher dose is more in line with current clinical research which he also pointed out to me.

Cheers for the info. I'm tempted to try Innate Healthcare for 300 million stem cells and see if there's any sign of healing (I had a brain bleed last year after a fall so I have a bunch of other issues on top of hearing issues) and if there are signs of healing, then I'd go back and get a higher dose. If not, then I've not wasted £31k like I might at StemCells21.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Cheers for the info. I'm tempted to try Innate Healthcare for 300 million stem cells and see if there's any sign of healing (I had a brain bleed last year after a fall so I have a bunch of other issues on top of hearing issues) and if there are signs of healing, then I'd go back and get a higher dose. If not, then I've not wasted £31k like I might at StemCells21.

Yeah, I have a few other small issues that would definitely benefit from IV stem cells so it's worth a shot.

I think the reason why it's relatively cheap is that there are a huge amount of stem cell clinics in Arizona so the competition forces them to lower prices. Or else it's the extra passage thing which is most likely not an issue from the brief bit I read on it. I think more cells, even if a higher passage, is probably better, as long as it's not way too high. Pretty sure that's what the current research is doing but need to confirm.

Another good thing about Innate Healthcare is they use Mannitol before the IV which helps the cells pass the blood brain barrier. They also do intranasal which is meant to help brain issues more. StemCells21 do intranasal but not sure about Mannitol.

I want to try it out soon, just my ear is very sensitive right now so kinda want to let it calm down a bit before going on a long noisy plane journey.

 

[Ela Stefan]

Yeah, I have a few other small issues that would definitely benefit from IV stem cells so it's worth a shot.

I think the reason why it's relatively cheap is that there are a huge amount of stem cell clinics in Arizona so the competition forces them to lower prices. Or else it's the extra passage thing which is most likely not an issue from the brief bit I read on it. I think more cells, even if a higher passage, is probably better, as long as it's not way too high. Pretty sure that's what the current research is doing but need to confirm.

Another good thing about Innate Healthcare is they use Mannitol before the IV which helps the cells pass the blood brain barrier. They also do intranasal which is meant to help brain issues more. StemCells21 do intranasal but not sure about Mannitol.

I want to try it out soon, just my ear is very sensitive right now so kinda want to let it calm down a bit before going on a long noisy plane journey.

If the stem cells cross the blood-brain barrier, could they also reset neurotransmitters (GABA-Glutamate balance), with less NMDA being activated and help regulate the ion, calcium, sodium, potassium channels? Those seem to be involved in brain tinnitus, for example.

Does the clinic answer your questions and can they give any guarantees?

 

[SmallRonnie]

If the stem cells cross the blood-brain barrier, could they also reset neurotransmitters (GABA-Glutamate balance), with less NMDA being activated and help regulate the ion, calcium, sodium, potassium channels? Those seem to be involved in brain tinnitus, for example.

Does the clinic answer your questions and can they give any guarantees?

Any clinic that does give guarantees should probably be avoided because there's not enough research to back it. But every clinic will answer any question, yes. You need to know what questions you want to ask.

I don't know about those specifics you asked about GABA and that. I really only trust research from clinical trials and even then that's a stretch because a lot of it is very biased.

Stem cells have been proven to help a lot of neurological diseases like Alzheimer's, autism, ALS and more, so if the issue for tinnitus is caused by something that "broke", then stem cells might have a chance to fix whatever "broke" as long as they can get to the right area and "fix" whatever "broke".

There's only that one clinical trial done on the 11 children that had positive results but it's a very small sample size. Using Google scholar is a good way to search research.

 

[gameover]

Any update on stem cell treatments?

 

[gameover]

@attheedgeofscience went back to StemCells21 to get a double dose after his first one went well.

Correction: for his 2nd round @attheedgeofscience went to some hospital (defunct now, I believe) in China. He posted about this.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Correction: for his 2nd round @attheedgeofscience went to some hospital (defunct now, I believe) in China. He posted about this.

I meant to say the other person with the Arsenal profile picture. I forget his name but he wrote about his experience in that massive thread about @attheedgeofscience.

He got treatment once. After he noticed some improvement, he went back again to get the same treatment with a double dose, I believe. Then he never returned to Tinnitus Talk.

Any update on stem cell treatments?

I've been literally looking at the booking page this week and have it open in my tabs. Just need to book it. I swear I'm actually going to do it soon because I still lose sleep because of my tinnitus from time to time.

I just need to pick a date. Hopefully I will get it done this year.

 

[gameover]

I meant to say the other person with the Arsenal profile picture. I forget his name but he wrote about his experience in that massive thread about @attheedgeofscience.

He got treatment once. After he noticed some improvement, he went back again to get the same treatment with a double dose, I believe. Then he never returned to Tinnitus Talk.

I've been literally looking at the booking page this week and have it open in my tabs. Just need to book it. I swear I'm actually going to do it soon because I still lose sleep because of my tinnitus from time to time.

I just need to pick a date. Hopefully I will get it done this year.

Yes, @LJMD. I posted a summary of member experiences with stem cell therapies here. Tried my best, but cannot guarantee completeness. Maybe you have seen it.

So where are you going? I have been considering StemCells21. I need to send them a form to schedule a consultation. I am beyond highly skeptical my tinnitus being acoustic-trauma induced, but I am suicidal, so I am considering all options. Innate Healthcare in AZ looked like an interesting option, but that's like blazing completely new path. At least closer to home (for me).

 

[SmallRonnie]

Yes, @LJMD. I posted a summary of member experiences with stem cell therapies here. Tried my best, but cannot guarantee completeness. Maybe you have seen it.

So where are you going? I have been considering StemCells21. I need to send them a form to schedule a consultation. I am beyond highly skeptical my tinnitus being acoustic-trauma induced, but I am suicidal, so I am considering all options. Innate Healthcare in AZ looked like an interesting option, but that's like blazing completely new path. At least closer to home (for me).

That's a great summary. Very mixed results of course. There are so many variables between individual patients and also the quality of each clinic.

I'm planning on going to Dream Body clinic in Mexico. It's vastly cheaper than StemCells21. I'm probably just going to get 300 million cells IV. I don't really trust the clinic in AZ. Umbilical cord stem cells are illegal in the US so the clinic is either lying about their cells or is doing it illegally. He told me there's some loophole for that state but I'd rather go to a country where they're actually legal.

I don't expect this to completely work but even a small improvement would be great.

 

[gameover]

Umbilical cord stem cells are illegal in the US so the clinic is either lying about their cells or is doing it illegally. He told me there's some loophole for that state but I'd rather go to a country where they're actually legal.

Yeah. For reference, below is Innate Healthcare's explanation of the supposed legality. I think the "drug" part is shaky. I haven't studied this extensively, but this letter seems to be indicating so.

Innate Healthcare Institute - Stem Cell Treatments: Longer Public Statement

They even seem to be quoting some recent case law, but the court decision seems to be exactly opposite what they claim:

United States v. US Stem Cell Clinic, LLC, No. 19-13276 (11th Cir. 2021)

 

[gameover]

I'm planning on going to Dream Body clinic in Mexico. It's vastly cheaper than StemCells21. I'm probably just going to get 300 million cells IV. I don't really trust the clinic in AZ. Umbilical cord stem cells are illegal in the US so the clinic is either lying about their cells or is doing it illegally. He told me there's some loophole for that state but I'd rather go to a country where they're actually legal.

So only IV? No injections anywhere. I suppose you have talked to them? Did they offer anything else?

I have a consultation scheduled with StemCells21 for later this week. Amazing how responsive and available they are. I guess it should be like this for the $$$ they charge. Truly sounds like a major scam. And given that I seem to worsen from "taking it easy" (like car drives with earplugs), I am not sure a flight to Thailand is such a swell idea. Or to Mexico/Arizona for that matter...

That Dream Body clinic... does it not look very sketchy? From their webpage:

He was awarded the Honoris Causa in 2021 by UNCEMA. UNCEMA is a university started in Spain that has a special institute in Guadalajara. This is a top honor in the medical community for regenerative medicine. Only a handful of doctors in Mexico have been awarded this top honor. Dr. Arick was awarded it for his skill and specialty in esthetic medical treatments.

This does not check out. Searching for UNCEMA does not give any sensible hits. Seriously, the dude's doctorate honoris causa looks like an outright scam:

Dream Body clinic's Twitter page just doesn't look right.

[USER=46849]@SmallRonnie[/USER], what research have you done that led you to that place? To be honest, it feels WAY less credible than those Arizona outfits.

I am not sure StemCells21 is a whole lot better, but maybe not so blatant?

 

[SmallRonnie]

So only IV? No injections anywhere. I suppose you have talked to them? Did they offer anything else?

I have a consultation scheduled with StemCells21 for later this week. Amazing how responsive and available they are. I guess it should be like this for the $$$ they charge. Truly sounds like a major scam. And given that I seem to worsen from "taking it easy" (like car drives with earplugs), I am not sure a flight to Thailand is such a swell idea. Or to Mexico/Arizona for that matter...

That Dream Body clinic... does it not look very sketchy? From their webpage:

This does not check out. Searching for UNCEMA does not give any sensible hits. Seriously, the dude's doctorate honoris causa looks like an outright scam:

View attachment 55675

Dream Body clinic's Twitter page just doesn't look right.

[USER=46849]@SmallRonnie[/USER], what research have you done that led you to that place? To be honest, it feels WAY less credible than those Arizona outfits.

I am not sure StemCells21 is a whole lot better, but maybe not so blatant?

Man, seeing him talk about that scam coin hex on the Twitter page is not inspiring at all. But hey, maybe he just fell for the ponzi. Still not inspiring.

I guess I will look into it more but even another Mexican stem cell doctor recommended this place. They've been in business for quite a long time now.

It's very hard to tell if all of the testimonials from any clinic are true or fake, of course all of them could potentially be fake.

Every single clinic looks sketchy to be honest. It's not easy trying to find one that looks legit.

 

[gameover]

Every single clinic looks sketchy to be honest. It's not easy trying to find one that looks legit.

Yes, almost. From my (not super extensive) research it seems like one of the most reputable ones is Regenexx Cayman. One instantly reassuring thing about them is they do not offer their services to help with basically every ailment on earth (including e.g., autism) - only joint/orthopedic issues. Not of any help for us, but at least they are not there to scam us, either.

By the way, I am scheduled to talk to StemCells21 tomorrow, let's see how that goes.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Yes, almost. From my (not super extensive) research it seems like one of the most reputable ones is Regenexx Cayman. One instantly reassuring thing about them is they do not offer their services to help with basically every ailment on earth (including e.g., autism) - only joint/orthopedic issues. Not of any help for us, but at least they are not there to scam us, either.

By the way, I am scheduled to talk to StemCells21 tomorrow, let's see how that goes.

I have heard good things about Regenexx from other sources too and yes, they mostly just focus on orthopedic treatment. There's another clinic in the Cayman Islands called DVC that also looks legit. It's just more expensive than the Mexican clinics.

I don't think the Mexican clinics being cheap is necessarily a bad thing. They can easily get a license and since there's so many clinics there, the competition drives down prices. StemCells21 is literally 5x the price of the Mexican clinics. They'll do some local injections around the ear but not sure if it's worth it for the price.

 

[gameover]

I don't think the Mexican clinics being cheap is necessarily a bad thing. They can easily get a license and since there's so many clinics there, the competition drives down prices. StemCells21 is literally 5x the price of the Mexican clinics. They'll do some local injections around the ear but not sure if it's worth it for the price.

I just question what incentive do they have to offer you real product if they resort to blatant lies (the honoris causa thing...) in their marketing? Are their "licenses" even legit? Even if they are, what reassurance you get. You are coming from a place/culture where there is a reasonable presumption of ethics at least on a basic level. These assumptions unfortunately tend to fall apart when you go too far south or too far east, I am sorry, that's just how it is. To not be accused of being prejudiced, at the same time, the irony is when it comes to random individuals you can find in these parts of the words, you are perhaps more likely to find genuine humanity and goodness. World is weird that way.

And I am not saying the Thailand place is any better. I really do not know.

 

[gameover]

I talked with the lead doctor at StemCells21. He described what they did before: injections around the ear, intranasal, IV infusions and the supporting stuff (IV ozone, plasma, LLLT). Pretty much what @attheedgeofscience or more like what @LJMD got.

He admitted he had never had hyperacusis patients, but said they had had 30-35 tinnitus patients, including those with noise-induced hearing loss - and had success with them.

Allegedly patients have said they had to adjust their hearing aids because they started to hear better, or even could do without them.

He did not mention @LJMD by name of course, but from the description (came quickly for a 2nd treatment) it sounded like him. That was a long time ago so not so reassuring. But I can't know for sure. I asked for patient references, but he balked citing privacy, but "he will try" (I doubt it). Other than that, he gave the typical stem cell sell pitches.

Dunno. He did not say anything to dissuade me completely, though I'd be more impressed if he whipped out some stats/results. My biggest worry is the super long trip, not sure I can take it with my hyperacusis and potentially make it worse. If it wasn't for that, I do not think I'd hesitate, I am desperate so I'd like to try anything (fairly safe) to help myself at this point.

I think I might give Innate Healthcare in AZ a call. Too bad we did not hear from @Karj or @James Connelly.

 

[Jupiterman]

Tens of thousands of dollars is a lot of money to spend on something that 'could' work. It wouldn't be impossible for me to somehow get hold of this amount of money but it would compromise my life comfort and make things more difficult.

That said; honestly, I would gladly pay this money if I knew it was near 100% certain that it would silence my head within a few short months or came with a money-back-guarantee. I'm not even sure I'd be satisfied with a 50% reduction; that could come naturally over time through protecting my ears, natural healing and brain adjustment (neuroplasticity).

@gameover, you are a high profile member of Tinnitus Talk. Your plain honesty, ability to articulate well and keeping everyone updated has earned you this accolade.

Selfishly; I would like you (and @SmallRonnie) to get this treatment because I know both of you would write in meticulous detail what transpires.

Unselfishly; I am concerned. The plane journeys, would you double protect? Would you consider wearing a hard hat or flightdeck headcover to essentially triple protect? And how would it alter your behaviour when you returned home?

"Great! I've had stem cell treatment, so now I can afford to expose a bit more."

And then you expose; car trips, restaurants, holidays and then get worse? And then the months pass and you become frustrated as your heavy investment doesn't appear to be paying off?

If you're going to do this; to give yourself every chance of success, you need to PROTECT, PROTECT, PROTECT before, during and long after the treatment. Perhaps even consider going hermit mode on return for a while? Create as favourable an environment as you possibly can to give these stem cells the best chance to do as intended. Perhaps that could mean being in more of a horizontal position often to encourage more blood flow into your ears? This whole escapade shouldn't just be in consideration of a financial investment but also the loss of quality of life for a long time afterwards too.

Do you read? Buy a stack of magazines or books BEFORE you go and start a serious reading hobby on return. Write reviews on amazon? Become an accommodating individual as you respect your body's healing process with the (financial) hand-up you've given it.

If you do this, don't squander the opportunity it prevails to get your life back; to be the true husband, father and work colleague you were, before you handed your life to tinnitus. It's just too good an opportunity to kick this demon out.

 

[gameover]

Tens of thousands of dollars is a lot of money to spend on something that 'could' work. It wouldn't be impossible for me to somehow get hold of this amount of money but it would compromise my life comfort and make things more difficult.

That said; honestly, I would gladly pay this money if I knew it was near 100% certain that it would silence my head within a few short months or came with a money-back-guarantee. I'm not even sure I'd be satisfied with a 50% reduction; that could come naturally over time through protecting my ears, natural healing and brain adjustment (neuroplasticity).

At this point I'd be happy with 50% reduction in tinnitus, although I need more reduction in loudness hyperacusis. If stem cells could help, then I'd gladly pay the money. Spending this kind of amount on a sketchy therapy sucks, but I can afford to.

Selfishly; I would like you (and @SmallRonnie) to get this treatment because I know both of you would write in meticulous detail what transpires.

Unselfishly; I am concerned. The plane journeys, would you double protect? Would you consider wearing a hard hat or flightdeck headcover to essentially triple protect? And how would it alter your behaviour when you returned home?

"Great! I've had stem cell treatment, so now I can afford to expose a bit more."

And then you expose; car trips, restaurants, holidays and then get worse? And then the months pass and you become frustrated as your heavy investment doesn't appear to be paying off?

If you're going to do this; to give yourself every chance of success, you need to PROTECT, PROTECT, PROTECT before, during and long after the treatment. Perhaps even consider going hermit mode on return for a while? Create as favourable an environment as you possibly can to give these stem cells the best chance to do as intended. Perhaps that could mean being in more of a horizontal position often to encourage more blood flow into your ears? This whole escapade shouldn't just be in consideration of a financial investment but also the loss of quality of life for a long time afterwards too.

Do you read? Buy a stack of magazines or books BEFORE you go and start a serious reading hobby on return. Write reviews on amazon? Become an accommodating individual as you respect your body's healing process with the (financial) hand-up you've given it.

If you do this, don't squander the opportunity it prevails to get your life back; to be the true husband, father and work colleague you were, before you handed your life to tinnitus. It's just too good an opportunity to kick this demon out.

I tend to agree with you about being careful, but I think you're going overboard. Flightdeck headcover? You mean the helmet? That's too crazy, I don't think they are available to civilians anyway (or so I read here).

I could not go into total hermit mode realistically. I need to drive at least 7 minutes to woods where I can walk. I am also facing the prospect of return to work, hopefully remote. If not, I am hosed indeed. I can try doing remote, but going to the office would be indeed too much given my circumstances.

I have certainly been taking it easy, avoiding noise traumas and exposure to any loud sounds. Using hearing protection at home would drive me nuts due to the amplified tinnitus noise, and amplification of low frequency noises like motorbikes/trucks. Traffic is not bad, generally. Regular cars I can hardly hear, it's just (bro) trucks and Harleys. Summer is winding down, so the hellish bikes should also go away. I stopped driving my sports car and I am going to put it away soon - perhaps that was the only unreasonable exposure I had. But then the car was a gift to myself I bought only last year after several years of putting that purchase away... it helped me enjoy some moments of this misery.

Anyway, not sure what to do. The travel scares me. Arizona would be quite doable, I think.

 

[SmallRonnie]

I just question what incentive do they have to offer you real product if they resort to blatant lies (the honoris causa thing...) in their marketing? Are their "licenses" even legit? Even if they are, what reassurance you get. You are coming from a place/culture where there is a reasonable presumption of ethics at least on a basic level. These assumptions unfortunately tend to fall apart when you go too far south or too far east, I am sorry, that's just how it is. To not be accused of being prejudiced, at the same time, the irony is when it comes to random individuals you can find in these parts of the words, you are perhaps more likely to find genuine humanity and goodness. World is weird that way.

And I am not saying the Thailand place is any better. I really do not know.

Are you certain that "honoris causa" thing is a lie? I personally have no idea but I wouldn't say it's a lie just because I don't understand it.

I do understand that it's hard to trust these clinics but I have heard from countless sources about several clinics where people have had success with stem cells. There are a lot of scam clinics but there are also a lot of legit clinics.

I don't think they would have been operating for over 10 years if they were posting fake licenses on their website and giving everyone fake stem cells. They would surely be shut down by now. I know the medical governing body in Mexico isn't as strict as in the US, but they're not completely useless.

If you don't mind me asking, what are your top 3 clinics that you're considering and why? I've looked at DVC, they said they can't guarantee anything for hearing, what did they say to you?

Cheers!

Right now I'm just going to go to Dream Body. StemCells21 is probably good but the price is way too high. RegenaMex in Mexico would be my second option. DVC would be my 3rd option.

Honestly, I just told DVC I wanted treatment for something that's on their list, I think I said back pain or nerve damage. I was not actually lying about it but they accepted that, I just didn't take it further.

Unselfishly; I am concerned. The plane journeys, would you double protect? Would you consider wearing a hard hat or flightdeck headcover to essentially triple protect? And how would it alter your behaviour when you returned home?

I've been on a lot of planes recently without protecting my ears and I've been fine. I don't have highly sensitive hyperacusis anymore, I only get pain from prolonged periods of loud noise or from headphones. I still have tinnitus all the time though and it fluctuates a lot.

I would be happy with even a 50% decrease to be honest. If that happened, I would probably just go get another treatment.

 

[gameover]

Are you certain that "honoris causa" thing is a lie? I personally have no idea but I wouldn't say it's a lie just because I don't understand it.

It looks like so. The institution with Spain origin that allegedly granted has no Internet presence. That's impossible in this day and age.

I do understand that it's hard to trust these clinics but I have heard from countless sources about several clinics where people have had success with stem cells. There are a lot of scam clinics but there are also a lot of legit clinics.

I don't think they would have been operating for over 10 years if they were posting fake licenses on their website and giving everyone fake stem cells. They would surely be shut down by now. I know the medical governing body in Mexico isn't as strict as in the US, but they're not completely useless.

I think you are underestimating level of corruption possible in a country like Mexico. Especially given it is such a lucrative business. I suppose as long as they are not actively harming patients, they could operate freely.

Again, no idea if StemCells21 is any better. Fewer obvious red flags. But then both use their own "lab"...

You have a point though, both are suspect, but at least one is cheaper...

 

[ajc]

The institution with Spain origin that allegedly granted has no Internet presence. That's impossible in this day and age.

Look at this page:

https://www.facebook.com/uncema.nacional

Browse through the updates, there are several updates that have the same logo (UNCEMA).

I think it may exist in some sense, but it is NOT a real university. It's some kind of mega scam homeopathy outlet as far as I can see. You can probably buy a honoris cause award from them.

STAY FAR AWAY FROM THE DREAM BODY CLINIC.