Stem Cell Clinics for Treating Tinnitus?

[lcj]

DVC Stem seems to be a legitimate stem cell clinic in the Cayman Islands. I saw strongman Eddie Hall got treatment there. Again it's expensive, $25k for 300 million stem cells but I'm not sure what passage. It's umbilical cord MSC.

The good thing about them is they are allowed to expand the stem cells more than is legal in the US. I will ask them how much exactly they expand though.

StemCells21 say they expand only once because expanding them more makes them "age" and they won't be as effective. Expanding to 3-4 some people think is good but anything past 16 is bad. Maybe all the US clinics are crap since they aren't allowed to expand at all. Need to verify this.

Just want to say yup that's correct, the US stem cell clinics can only offer frozen dead non-expanded cell products, or cells extracted from your own body and spun down and administered same day (neither of which are that potent), or exosomes which is a bit of a crapshoot - the FDA does not allow expanded cells to be administered. Now that doesn't mean cells cannot be expanded in the US. DVC for instance expands their cells in the US (at a cGMP certified lab in the Denver area), and ships them to the Cayman Islands for use. Anecdotally, I talked to someone who was treated at DVC for MS with good results who said that his MS related tinnitus went away after treatment.

Another US based company that collects and expands their cells in the US is Celltex, they bank them and administer them in Mexico.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Just want to say yup that's correct, the US stem cell clinics can only offer frozen dead non-expanded cell products, or cells extracted from your own body and spun down and administered same day (neither of which are that potent), or exosomes which is a bit of a crapshoot - the FDA does not allow expanded cells to be administered. Now that doesn't mean cells cannot be expanded in the US. DVC for instance expands their cells in the US (at a cGMP certified lab in the Denver area), and ships them to the Cayman Islands for use. Anecdotally, I talked to someone who was treated at DVC for MS with good results who said that his MS related tinnitus went away after treatment.

Another US based company that collects and expands their cells in the US is Celltex, they bank them and administer them in Mexico.

Thank you for clarifying. It's an important piece of information that I hadn't heard of until now. I'll look into Celltex now too while I'm at it. I'm basically contacting as many stem cell clinics as I can right now to compare.

At this point I am thinking StemCells21 is probably still best, maybe DVC second and the US probably have good PRP treatments, even though StemCells21 also do PRP as part of their treatment. I like how DVC have a high dose of stem cells. 300 million is quite a lot.

It all depends on the individual too, how you acquired your tinnitus/hyperacusis probably plays a big role in whether or not this type of treatment will be beneficial. I think it's a good choice for me since my issue is caused by loud noise exposure.

I will keep this thread updated with my correspondence with several clinics.

 

[SmallRonnie]

I came across Innate Healthcare Stem Cell Clinic while looking for stem cell clinics and was wondering if anyone has ever been there? Or if anyone has any additional info on these or similar clinics?

Link:
https://innatehealthcare.org/

They told me they will set up a consultation to talk about tinnitus/hyperacusis treatment so at least it's not an outright instant denial like some.

I'm thinking StemCells21 are probably still the best option but searching around still.

I spoke with Innate Healthcare.

They have never treated anyone for hearing loss but sometimes when they treated someone for something else, the person would report their hearing got better, or their eye sight got better.

They can do IV, intranasal and maybe local injections too. They said they have a good response in intranasal for brain disorders.

They can do up to a billion stem cells, umbilical cord MSC, for about $26k. Very good pricing compared to other clinics.

They also said they would like to try putting exosomes into a saline solution and dropping them into the ear. Sounds like a good idea since the exosomes are smaller than the stem cells and might get right into the ear.

I also asked him about the above conversation about the FDA banning expansion of cells. This is only at a country wide level. Each state still have their own medical board so certain states can have different medical laws. So Arizona is a good state for stem cells apparently.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Effect of epithelial stem cell transplantation on noise-induced hearing loss in adult mice

I saw Stemedix post this. Currently inquiring about their treatment and if they will treat hearing loss or not. I want to find a clinic that will dose intratympanically but maybe it's not necessary.

 

[SmallRonnie]

I got the following response from a stem cell clinic which I thought was quite insightful and very honest.

I had to check in with our physician team more specifically regarding your concerns. It appears tinnitus & hyperacusis have seen results with stem cell treatments, yes, but they are inconsistent. We don't always get results when we treat primarily for tinnitus, however when we are treating for a different primary concern we sometimes get a bonus benefit of a patient's tinnitus resolving. So it's a strange one. We would say it's definitely worth trying if the expense of the stem cells won't break the bank, especially if you have any aches / joint pains / or other concerns we can help with at the same time. Otherwise it's not something we ordinarily recommend for a patient saving up for stem cell therapy because we just can't guarantee it will do anything for the ear. Wish I could give a more consistent result, but I hope that helps!

They use umbilical cord cells. I've seen the same type of response from several doctors now.

 

[Vincent R]

I got the following response from a stem cell clinic which I thought was quite insightful and very honest.

They use umbilical cord cells. I've seen the same type of response from several doctors now.

I agree that was a response that sounds credible. May I ask what clinic it was? (If there are clinics in the West that use USC and appears honest, then they are perhaps worth to consider instead of StemCells21. The travel will be cheaper and perhaps the treatment as well.)

 

[SmallRonnie]

I agree that was a response that sounds credible. May I ask what clinic it was? (If there are clinics in the West that use USC and appears honest, then they are perhaps worth to consider instead of StemCells21. The travel will be cheaper and perhaps the treatment as well.)

This was Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center in Phoenix. Lots of stem cell clinics in Arizona. I'm thinking of going to Innate Healthcare since they offer 10x more cells than StemCells21 for the same price. That's if you can believe everyone. The cells might be expanded a bit more though so maybe not as potent as the ones in StemCells21 but I don't fully understand the science behind that and I'm not sure if it really makes a difference or not.

If you look at the clinical trial with the 11 children, the doses were pretty high. The Innate Healthcare doctor told me that in general clinical trials for stem cells are now usually about 6-10 million cells per kg of bodyweight whereas they used to be 4-6 million per kg.

I also read a paper where they tested high doses of several billion cells in patients with some lung issue and there were no adverse effects. Small trial all the same but higher doses seem safer and more effective.

This is a good read for anyone thinking about trying stem cell therapy.

This is from Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center in Phoenix, AZ. I posted their first message above about their results for treating tinnitus.

Our Mesenchymal Stem Cells

• We offer quality stem cells derived from both the umbilical cord and the amniotic membrane of the placenta, offering the highest-quality mesenchymal stem cells currently available. These stem cells are 3rd-party tested and authenticated and are FDA-compliant in their manufacturing.
• The cells are recovered from healthy, full-term pregnancies (NO fetal or embryonic tissue is used, absolutely no harm to mother or baby). These cells are immune-privileged, meaning there is no concern of your immune system recognizing and rejecting these cells.
• These stem cells can help treat injuries and conditions of all kinds, as is evident by patients our physicians have helped since 2009 as we are possibly the longest-running stem cell clinic across the globe. However, we can make no medical claim or guarantee regarding stem cell therapies as they are not currently an FDA-approved treatment.

The Treatment Day

• Our physicians care about their patients and include a maximum of added benefits to our stem cell treatment. The Treatment Day is a single-day visit in which the physician will spend 3-4 hours directly with the patient on average.
• The visit begins with a thorough history of the patient's medical concerns, lifestyle, diet, and other relevant factors to health, and the patient will leave with an excellent naturopathic care plan to take home.
• A nutrient IV will be administered to the patient for a bonus systemic boost while the physician prepares the stem cells for injection. In addition, a complementary addition of stem cells from the patient's blood (PRP) will be given separately to enhance the treatment or address other problem areas.
• Administration of stem cells will then follow (direct injection, intranasal, IV, and/or nebulizer) depending on the conditions being treated.
• Lastly, the patient will receive any necessary supplements, medicines, or herbs as determined by their physician to address their condition. The first round of any supplements or herbal medicines carried on-hand at our clinic is included at no additional charge.

Next Steps and Cost of Treatment

• To receive an evaluation for potential stem cell treatment, please fully complete the attached Medical Information Form. You may include any records you deem relevant to your case, including bloodwork, MRI, CT scans, etc.
• Our physicians will then discuss your case to give an approval with an individualized quote if stem cell therapy is likely to be an appropriate and effective option for you.
• The fee for treatment begins at $7,100. This fee is dependent on the dose of stem cells required to provide therapy for the patient, and is influenced by the number and severity of disease conditions and/or affected body regions.
• As these are still considered elective treatments, we have not yet seen insurance cover stem cell injections. However, we will happily provide the documentation for you to submit for reimbursement.
• We now offer a third-party funding option that allows for monthly payments in a 3-5 year repayment term.

Reserving Your Appointment

• In order to schedule treatment, you must have been approved by our team of physicians.
• Half of the treatment fee is required to reserve your appointment. Most patients use credit card or personal checks.
• The remainder of the fee balance is due upon the day of treatment using Money Order, Cash, or Cashier's Check.
• There is no penalty to change or postpone your appointment.
• Cancelling your appointment is 90% refundable with at least two (2) weeks' notice. Email notification is acceptable.

 

[lcj]

At this point I am thinking StemCells21 is probably still best, maybe DVC second and the US probably have good PRP treatments, even though StemCells21 also do PRP as part of their treatment. I like how DVC have a high dose of stem cells. 300 million is quite a lot.

I agree StemCells21 seems the most legit and most experienced by a lot. When I have time this weekend I will upload some data that Robert Potts from Celltex sent me regarding their experience with treating tinnitus.

Btw apparently StemCells21 is going to expand to open a second location in Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam. This just showed up on my feed. I wish it was closer to North America but still kinda cool.

 

[SmallRonnie]

I'd love to find a clinic that will do intratympanic injections with umbilical cord MSCs. That seems like it would be the best treatment for hearing issues.

After looking at more clinics, it seems that StemCells21 is a little expensive if you measure by dollar value per stem cell. They do have a few extra things other clinics don't though all the same. Maybe the laser treatment at the same time really makes a difference.

My thinking now is I just want to get the highest dose of UCMSC possible.

 

[Vincent R]

Just want to say yup that's correct, the US stem cell clinics can only offer frozen dead non-expanded cell products, or cells extracted from your own body and spun down and administered same day (neither of which are that potent), or exosomes which is a bit of a crapshoot - the FDA does not allow expanded cells to be administered. Now that doesn't mean cells cannot be expanded in the US. DVC for instance expands their cells in the US (at a cGMP certified lab in the Denver area), and ships them to the Cayman Islands for use. Anecdotally, I talked to someone who was treated at DVC for MS with good results who said that his MS related tinnitus went away after treatment.

Another US based company that collects and expands their cells in the US is Celltex, they bank them and administer them in Mexico.

A couple of questions from someone who doesn't understand the scientific aspects particularly well...

@SmallRonnie has been in touch with several stem cell clinics in US that offer umbilical cord MSCs. Are you saying these cell products, in comparison to what are offered at StemCells21, are of low quality? What is the difference? Are the stem cells at StemCells21 kept alive while cultivated and the ones in US frozen to death for storage before administration?

Stem cells harvested from our own body fat aren't very potent, and being injected with dead umbilical cord MSCs sounds futile no matter what dosage you use.

The bottom line, if I understand you correctly, is that either you go to StemCells21 or Cayman Islands/Mexico. Unless Cayman Islands/Mexico are a lot cheaper, StemCells21 wins out on its anecdotal record.

 

[SmallRonnie]

A couple of questions from someone who doesn't understand the scientific aspects particularly well...

@SmallRonnie has been in touch with several stem cell clinics in US that offer umbilical cord MSCs. Are you saying these cell products, in comparison to what are offered at StemCells21, are of low quality? What is the difference? Are the stem cells at StemCells21 kept alive while cultivated and the ones in US frozen to death for storage before administration?

Stem cells harvested from our own body fat aren't very potent, and being injected with dead umbilical cord MSCs sounds futile no matter what dosage you use.

The bottom line, if I understand you correctly, is that either you go to StemCells21 or Cayman Islands/Mexico. Unless Cayman Islands/Mexico are a lot cheaper, StemCells21 wins out on its anecdotal record.

I have heard some other people say they do not like how the US freeze the stem cells but I thought everyone freezes them. DVC freeze them. A quick Google shows research stating freezing stem cells is no issue.

A lot of it does come down to how much you can trust each individual clinic and how you can know if they're really giving you what they say they are.

One thing about the US being different is not every state had the same medical laws so at a federal level, stem cell laws are not good but in certain states like Arizona, the stem cell clinics have more freedom.

 

[Vincent R]

I have heard some other people say they do not like how the US freeze the stem cells but I thought everyone freezes them. DVC freeze them. A quick Google shows research stating freezing stem cells is no issue.

A lot of it does come down to how much you can trust each individual clinic and how you can know if they're really giving you what they say they are.

One thing about the US being different is not every state had the same medical laws so at a federal level, stem cell laws are not good but in certain states like Arizona, the stem cell clinics have more freedom.

I glanced over Innate Healthcare's web page, and I must say I like the fact that they stick to UC-MSCs (not yet another ex beauty surgeon who does adipose stem cell treatment as a get-rich-quick scheme). Pricing also looks appealing.

@attheedgeofscience benefitted from a treatment of a measly 20 million UC-MSCs. If you live in the US and don't need to worry about excessive travelling costs, then perhaps it could be an idea to start with a lighter treatment. To see if it kicks in.

It's a tough call to burn a lot of money on a single stem cell treatment. Due to the woes of picking the right clinic, I would personally feel that StemCells21 is the only acceptable option from a risk-reward analysis if you go big. Treatments smaller in scale but still meaningful could perhaps be a financially realistic way to scout alternatives?

Just a thought.

 

[SmallRonnie]

I glanced over Innate Healthcare's web page, and I must say I like the fact that they stick to UC-MSCs (not yet another ex beauty surgeon who does adipose stem cell treatment as a get-rich-quick scheme). Pricing also looks appealing.

@attheedgeofscience benefitted from a treatment of a measly 20 million UC-MSCs. If you live in the US and don't need to worry about excessive travelling costs, then perhaps it could be an idea to start with a lighter treatment. To see if it kicks in.

It's a tough call to burn a lot of money on a single stem cell treatment. Due to the woes of picking the right clinic, I would personally feel that StemCells21 is the only acceptable option from a risk-reward analysis if you go big. Treatments smaller in scale but still meaningful could perhaps be a financially realistic way to scout alternatives?

Just a thought.

UC-MSC is appealing to me also. I read a paper which compared umbilical cord (UC), bone marrow (BM) and adipose tissue (AT) derived MSC but I didn't understand it to be quite honest. The trial with children who had stem cells to try and heal their hearing loss was UC-MSC and StemCells21 use them too.

The trial with those children used 8-30 million cells/kg bodyweight. If I went to StemCells21 I would get about 2 million cells/kg. In my mind I'm just thinking a higher dose is better. @attheedgeofscience went back to StemCells21 to get a double dose after his first one went well. If I go to Innate Healthcare, I can get 20 million cells/kg for the same price but a higher passage.

Innate Healthcare expand the cells a couple times more to get more cells so they are probably at passage 3 or 4. So StemCells21 claim that their cells are of a higher quality since they are passage one. Honestly, I really don't know how true that is. I'm not saying it isn't, I just don't know. I read in some places that expanding the cells a few times is fine. UC-MSC can be expanded more than AT and BM too.

I would guess that Innate Healthcare is just very good value because it is forced to with the competition from other clinics in Arizona. Whereas StemCells21 is one of the only stem cell clinics in all of Asia so they get away with charging more.

My ear is in such a bad state right now that I don't want to go around the world testing too many spots. It's a good idea if you could afford it but then you need to pay for hotels & flights and take time off work every time, then wait ages to see if it works or not, which can take a year.

I'll just go big into one clinic first and see how it goes. If my ear heals, then I will be able to focus at work and make more money again anyway, so fixing this ear is my number one priority in life right now.

I'm still talking to a couple more clinics. So many clinics won't even attempt to use stem cells for hearing issues.

The PRP injection into the ear in Florida could be ok too but PRP has way less growth factors than stem cells. They use stem cells as well but only BM which is a very low count and lesser quality.

UC-MSC into the ear will be the best treatment, in my opinion, if any clinic ever does it. Until one of the regenerative drugs finally hit the market at least.

 

[Vincent R]

UC-MSC is appealing to me also. I read a paper which compared umbilical cord (UC), bone marrow (BM) and adipose tissue (AT) derived MSC but I didn't understand it to be quite honest. The trial with children who had stem cells to try and heal their hearing loss was UC-MSC and StemCells21 use them too.

The trial with those children used 8-30 million cells/kg bodyweight. If I went to StemCells21 I would get about 2 million cells/kg. In my mind I'm just thinking a higher dose is better. @attheedgeofscience went back to StemCells21 to get a double dose after his first one went well. If I go to Innate Healthcare, I can get 20 million cells/kg for the same price but a higher passage.

Innate Healthcare expand the cells a couple times more to get more cells so they are probably at passage 3 or 4. So StemCells21 claim that their cells are of a higher quality since they are passage one. Honestly, I really don't know how true that is. I'm not saying it isn't, I just don't know. I read in some places that expanding the cells a few times is fine. UC-MSC can be expanded more than AT and BM too.

I would guess that Innate Healthcare is just very good value because it is forced to with the competition from other clinics in Arizona. Whereas StemCells21 is one of the only stem cell clinics in all of Asia so they get away with charging more.

My ear is in such a bad state right now that I don't want to go around the world testing too many spots. It's a good idea if you could afford it but then you need to pay for hotels & flights and take time off work every time, then wait ages to see if it works or not, which can take a year.

I'll just go big into one clinic first and see how it goes. If my ear heals, then I will be able to focus at work and make more money again anyway, so fixing this ear is my number one priority in life right now.

I'm still talking to a couple more clinics. So many clinics won't even attempt to use stem cells for hearing issues.

The PRP injection into the ear in Florida could be ok too but PRP has way less growth factors than stem cells. They use stem cells as well but only BM which is a very low count and lesser quality.

UC-MSC into the ear will be the best treatment, in my opinion, if any clinic ever does it. Until one of the regenerative drugs finally hit the market at least.

Tinnitus is taking its toll on me as well. I am currently in the process of saving up money for a stem cell treatment, so I'm highly interested in seeing if any relevant clinic appears in US. (Cheaper and easier travel compared to Bangkok, and perhaps cheaper treatment as well.)

It would be big news if Tinnitus Talk could identify a clinic in US that deliver results comparable to StemCells21. Many more members would be able to undergo treatment.

I compared Innate Healthcare's website with Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center's. I can't help to feel that Innate Healthcare lay it on too thick about what to expect from treatments. Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center make a more professional impression on me.

I seem to recall that StemCells21 claim they always get some results with tinnitus clients. Stem Cell Rejuvanation Center, on the other hand, admit to have inconclusive results. A matter of passages? Even StemCells21 probably only have a small sample of tinnitus clients, though.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Tinnitus is taking its toll on me as well. I am currently in the process of saving up money for a stem cell treatment, so I'm highly interested in seeing if any relevant clinic appears in US. (Cheaper and easier travel compared to Bangkok, and perhaps cheaper treatment as well.)

It would be big news if Tinnitus Talk could identify a clinic in US that deliver results comparable to StemCells21. Many more members would be able to undergo treatment.

I compared Innate Healthcare's website with Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center's. I can't help to feel that Innate Healthcare lay it on too thick about what to expect from treatments. Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center make a more professional impression on me.

I seem to recall that StemCells21 claim they always get some results with tinnitus clients. Stem Cell Rejuvanation Center, on the other hand, admit to have inconclusive results. A matter of passages? Even StemCells21 probably only have a small sample of tinnitus clients, though.

I guess most stem cell clinics don't talk about hearing issues much since the results aren't always great. Seems like you need a really high dose of stem cells for ear issues. Or else an intratympanic injection which most people are not trained to do.

I'm doing a little more research and then I'm going to book an appointment with some clinic. Giving my ear some time to calm down after the current setback before I go on a long plane journey.

I want to see how many cells Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center offer. They just say in terms of cc but I don't know how many cells that is. It's very hard to compare all the clinics too since not all the treatments are exactly the same.

If you go off the trial with the children then it shows that a really high dose is needed to see improvement in hearing loss. That's just IV though. I would guess hyperacusis and maybe tinnitus to some extent is easier to treat rather than hearing loss but it probably is all mostly the same.

BioXcellerator sound interesting too, need to talk to them. Maybe Giostar too.

 

[SmallRonnie]

A response I got from Celltex after asking a few questions:

-At Celltex, we work exclusively with autologous (your own) adipose-derived (fat) mesenchymal stem cells (a type of stem cell known to have anti-inflammatory, immunomodulatory and angiogenic properties, among others).

-We're able to administer stem cells intravenously (IV - systemic), intranasally (IN - direct to brain), intraarticularly (IA - injections into joints), as well as a few others. However, we do NOT do any types of direct, specialized injections into the ears.

-No, we do not use mannitol as part of our protocol.

-Yes, we can do PRP in conjunction with stem cell therapy for the joints. (Not sure how this would apply to the ears though.)

 

[lcj]

A couple of questions from someone who doesn't understand the scientific aspects particularly well...

@SmallRonnie has been in touch with several stem cell clinics in US that offer umbilical cord MSCs. Are you saying these cell products, in comparison to what are offered at StemCells21, are of low quality? What is the difference? Are the stem cells at StemCells21 kept alive while cultivated and the ones in US frozen to death for storage before administration?

Stem cells harvested from our own body fat aren't very potent, and being injected with dead umbilical cord MSCs sounds futile no matter what dosage you use.

The bottom line, if I understand you correctly, is that either you go to StemCells21 or Cayman Islands/Mexico. Unless Cayman Islands/Mexico are a lot cheaper, StemCells21 wins out on its anecdotal record.

Hi Vincent, yes that is what I'm saying. The cells offered at US clinics for treatment of non-cancerous diseases are either autologous, for instance spun down from the patient's own fat or bone marrow and administered same day, or they are a frozen prepared product made from a third party lab with no living cells. If there are medical doctors in the US offering expanded umbilical, Wharton's jelly or chord blood stem cells produced in their own laboratories, I would be very wary of that as they could have their license revoked. When investigating US clinics, I would ask who manufactures their stem cell product (then contact the manufacturer if you can to ask them questions like how they screen for hepatitis/HIV in the umbilical cord tissues they receive), if they could provide you with more information from their database about tinnitus outcomes, this question leads to whether they follow-up their patients by calling them say 6 months after the treatment, I would also ask if they could connect you to a past patient at their clinic.

With stem cell clinics, I feel like the old adage of you get what you pay for is mostly true. StemCells21, for instance, is probably on the high end (although they do offer passage 3 and adipose derived mesenchymal cells for a steep discount from their top of the line passage 1 cells). However, they have an in-house team of cell culture technicians who handle all the steps from the receiving of the umbilical cord, to the production of the ultimate product, and as far as I know, they have a good safety track record.

There was a guy on one of these stem cell groups a while back, John Miller, who ran a newsletter ranking stem cell treatment clinics around the world. He and I chatted briefly over email a few times. The last I heard, he got treated at a clinic in Mexico, flew home from the clinic to Vietnam with a fever, and died two weeks later. I can't prove that it was because of the stem cells, but I am definitely cautious of clinics outside of the US where there are lax laboratory and good manufacturing practice standards.

 

[lcj]

A response I got from Celltex after asking a few questions:

I wanted to get you this file that I received from Robert Potts (super knowledgeable guy who himself received stem cell therapy for epilepsy) at Celltex from a while back. This was taken from their database a few years back of everyone who had the symptom 'tinnitus' who received stem cell treatment from their clinic and the outcome - for most of these patients tinnitus was not their primary concern. The SF-36 is a quality of life patient reported questionaire.

I hope it helps you or others in some way.

 

[Tem]

I'm doing a little more research and then I'm going to book an appointment with some clinic.

Just wondering if you have looked at EmCell at all? They're based in Kyiv but are operating normally, and accessible by car or train from Poland. Ukraine is apparently the only country that allows fetal stem cells (not embryonic) so they're different to anything else. There's a documentary on YouTube about them called The God Cells, but while there's been a handful of mentions of them here, nobody seem to have really considered it.

They claim to have success with neurodegenerative diseases like Parkinson's. I was sad to read that @Tau had no success with his adipose stem cell treatment, which makes me wonder if only UC SCs (like StemCells21) or fetal SCs are worth trying.

 

[SmallRonnie]

I wanted to get you this file that I received from Robert Potts (super knowledgeable guy who himself received stem cell therapy for epilepsy) at Celltex from a while back. This was taken from their database a few years back of everyone who had the symptom 'tinnitus' who received stem cell treatment from their clinic and the outcome - for most of these patients tinnitus was not their primary concern. The SF-36 is a quality of life patient reported questionaire.

View attachment 51381

I hope it helps you or others in some way.

This is very helpful, thank you!

 

[SmallRonnie]

Just wondering if you have looked at EmCell at all? They're based in Kyiv but are operating normally, and accessible by car or train from Poland. Ukraine is apparently the only country that allows fetal stem cells (not embryonic) so they're different to anything else. There's a documentary on YouTube about them called The God Cells, but while there's been a handful of mentions of them here, nobody seem to have really considered it.

They claim to have success with neurodegenerative diseases like Parkinson's. I was sad to read that @Tau had no success with his adipose stem cell treatment, which makes me wonder if only UC SCs (like StemCells21) or fetal SCs are worth trying.

I was considering them but the war is still ongoing. The Ukrainian refugees in my country still haven't returned home so I assume it is not safe to do so. Otherwise I would look into it more for sure.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Just wondering if you have looked at EmCell at all? They're based in Kyiv but are operating normally, and accessible by car or train from Poland. Ukraine is apparently the only country that allows fetal stem cells (not embryonic) so they're different to anything else. There's a documentary on YouTube about them called The God Cells, but while there's been a handful of mentions of them here, nobody seem to have really considered it.

They claim to have success with neurodegenerative diseases like Parkinson's. I was sad to read that @Tau had no success with his adipose stem cell treatment, which makes me wonder if only UC SCs (like StemCells21) or fetal SCs are worth trying.

@Tau got treated with exosomes, not stem cells. He also took bigger doses more recently so he may see good results yet. He also did see his pressure and pain disappear. Those often heal naturally too though. The pain is my biggest issue. I can learn to tune out the tinnitus but the pain will need more serious therapy. I guess people do learn to block out chronic pain as well so it is possible.

I've heard of different clinics healing many different neurological disorders.

 

[Tem]

@Tau got treated with exosomes, not stem cells. He also took bigger doses more recently so he may see good results yet. He also did see his pressure and pain disappear. Those often heal naturally too though. The pain is my biggest issue. I can learn to tune out the tinnitus but the pain will need more serious therapy. I guess people do learn to block out chronic pain as well so it is possible.

I've heard of different clinics healing many different neurological disorders.

Thanks for the reply. I didn't realise exosomes weren't considered stem cells. True, they did help with the pain, and maybe they work for tinnitus too but need many months to have a noticeable effect.

I listened to this podcast with the documentary maker a few days ago which prompted the question about EmCell - They talk about going there with the war happening, and staying at the Intercontinental Hotel where all the foreign journalists are. It's from July but they felt it was safe.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Thanks for the reply. I didn't realise exosomes weren't considered stem cells. True, they did help with the pain, and maybe they work for tinnitus too but need many months to have a noticeable effect.

I listened to this podcast with the documentary maker a few days ago which prompted the question about EmCell - They talk about going there with the war happening, and staying at the Intercontinental Hotel where all the foreign journalists are. It's from July but they felt it was safe.

It could be fine but I would still like to avoid the warzone. Fetal stem cells are the type of cells that can cause tumors too if I'm not mistaken so I want to avoid them. Fetal is the same as embryonic, right? Umbilical cord MSC is what I want.

Really just want that because it is the only clinical trial done on humans for hearing loss. Adipose MSC is probably good too. Bone marrow has too low a count.

 

[Tem]

Fetal stem cells are the type of cells that can cause tumors too if I'm not mistaken so I want to avoid them. Fetal is the same as embryonic, right? Umbilical cord MSC is what I want.

Really just want that because it is the only clinical trial done on humans for hearing loss. Adipose MSC is probably good too. Bone marrow has too low a count.

Fetal and embryonic cells are from different stages of development. Embryonic are pluripotent which are the tumor/cancer risk kind. It's hard to get a consistent answer on fetal cells - some sources describe them as multipotent like UC and adipose while one source describes them as "mostly multipotent". The name EmCell implies embryonic but that's apparently a translation issue because they don't have different words for embryo and fetus.

Not wanting to go to Ukraine or having a preference though, totally understand!

 

[SmallRonnie]

Fetal and embryonic cells are from different stages of development. Embryonic are pluripotent which are the tumor/cancer risk kind. It's hard to get a consistent answer on fetal cells - some sources describe them as multipotent like UC and adipose while one source describes them as "mostly multipotent". The name EmCell implies embryonic but that's apparently a translation issue because they don't have different words for embryo and fetus.

Not wanting to go to Ukraine or having a preference though, totally understand!

I haven't done much research on the fetal stem cells just because the war is putting me off. Definitely not as high a risk or tumor as the embryo stem cells but possibly more risky than umbilical cord. I haven't seen fetal stem cells used in any of the literature I read, which hasn't been a whole lot either.

This is the only clinical trial using stem cells to treat hearing loss. You might be able to find clinical trials where fetal stem cells were used to treat other illness.

EmCell do have some links to studies using fetal stem cells on their website. A lot of those publications seem to involve Ukrainian doctors who would have a conflict of interest. I am not going to look into this further personally.

 

[Tem]

It's unfortunate that Western literature is basically non-existent because fetal stem cells are highly controversial/illegal in most countries. Even for research. Ukraine approved them in the 90s out of necessity, due to widespread health issues from Chernobyl and a shortage of bone marrow donors. There's a BBC article from 2005 about it.

I was just curious if it had been considered, since it's this whole type of stem cell that's had no discussion here. Like most clinics, EmCell make no claims about hearing or tinnitus.

I hope your treatment is super positive and look forward to updates!

 

[SmallRonnie]

It's unfortunate that Western literature is basically non-existent because fetal stem cells are highly controversial/illegal in most countries. Even for research. Ukraine approved them in the 90s out of necessity, due to widespread health issues from Chernobyl and a shortage of bone marrow donors. There's a BBC article from 2005 about it.

I was just curious if it had been considered, since it's this whole type of stem cell that's had no discussion here. Like most clinics, EmCell make no claims about hearing or tinnitus.

I hope your treatment is super positive and look forward to updates!

There is another thread on stem cells and one member did mention going to EmCell and seeing very positive results from a brain injury or something similar. It very may well be a better option than umbilical cord stem cells.

If I don't have any improvement with this umbilical cord stem cell, then I will definitely look into EmCell more.

EmCell website says they use progenitor cells which is very similar to FX-322 so maybe it would be good. They say it doesn't cause tumors but of course they will say that. Very difficult to asses it when they seem to be the only clinic offering that treatment. I have heard of other clinics though too but it's always cases of people getting tumors.

I'm not yet suicidal enough to increase my risk of tumor but I'm getting closer!

I think I would probably try squirting BPC-157 into my ear before trying fetal stem cells. Both require more research but look promising.

I'm currently just waiting for my tolerance to improve a bit before I book a flight. Right now I'm wearing earmuffs almost 24/7 and get pain if I play video games on the lowest volume so it might take a while. I could potentially be ok on a plane wearing hearing protection but I'm not sure. I'll need to do some tests by driving probably.

I was thinking that it might be a good time to go get stem cells while I'm in a setback since the stem cells home in on inflammation. Because during a setback I surely have more inflammation and that would be a bigger signal for the stem cells. Might just end up making myself even worse and not helping at all too though.

 

[Tem]

I was thinking that it might be a good time to go get stem cells while I'm in a setback since the stem cells home in on inflammation. Because during a setback I surely have more inflammation and that would be a bigger signal for the stem cells. Might just end up making myself even worse and not helping at all too though.

I'm sorry to hear you're in a setback, I sympathise. When my ear was damaged I had hyperacusis for a couple of months and it was terrible. Pretty sure it was tonic tympani tensor syndrome. Like most people here I saw numerous doctors and ENTs that were no use.

I covered my ear to use my microwave, wore earplugs in the shower, while driving... I remember reading that it was important to keep in mind that minor sounds are not loud enough to cause damage, even though it feels like it. So I stopped protecting myself from softer sounds like taps running or the kettle boiling. Whether this retrained my brain or it was time, well that's always the question with any improvement.

Besides the baseline ringing I'll still get bad days, some with pain, which I also believe is inflammation. On those days I mix 2g of NAC and 2g of ALCAR into warm water and drink it. NAC is supposed to be a strong anti-inflammatory, have you tried it?

 

[SmallRonnie]

I'm sorry to hear you're in a setback, I sympathise. When my ear was damaged I had hyperacusis for a couple of months and it was terrible. Pretty sure it was tonic tympani tensor syndrome. Like most people here I saw numerous doctors and ENTs that were no use.

I covered my ear to use my microwave, wore earplugs in the shower, while driving... I remember reading that it was important to keep in mind that minor sounds are not loud enough to cause damage, even though it feels like it. So I stopped protecting myself from softer sounds like taps running or the kettle boiling. Whether this retrained my brain or it was time, well that's always the question with any improvement.

Besides the baseline ringing I'll still get bad days, some with pain, which I also believe is inflammation. On those days I mix 2g of NAC and 2g of ALCAR into warm water and drink it. NAC is supposed to be a strong anti-inflammatory, have you tried it?

With my recent setback I think it is TTTS too since I had fluttering in my ear for a while after. Last time I recovered well after a couple months but I started to get a little more pain, didn't cover up again and it just went back to worse than square one.

I really do believe I will improve with time. This is one reason why it will be hard to assess if stem cells will help or not because so many people do improve over time anyway.

I am not taking NAC but I should. I took some racetam a few years ago, can't remember which one but I think it did improve my focus for a while. I am definitely open to taking alternative medicine. I need to focus on those things really. Just the past few weeks I've had extra loud tinnitus and lots of pain makes it hard to focus on anything. I've been drinking a lot of alcohol which probably isn't helping but at least lets me sleep.