Suicidal

[Jazzer]

You don't think neuromodulation or FX-322 at least represents an inkling?

Of course I'm not a scientist - my only forte was jazz.

All I know is that year on year we go on suffering with no treatment to alleviate our struggle.
I do not have a mindset to go getting excited about every new 'possibility' that gets talked about.

Cliff hanging is exhausting.

If and when a viable treatment is brought to market, proves itself by reviews from reliable people of integrity, then I will be cheering of course.

 

[Contrast]

, or there is infinite number of universes in which case it is certain that this will happen in one of them.

yes, if materialism is true. It would strongly benefit from a library of babel -infinite universe setting. That's the best rational defense materialist have. Sean Caroll has made it clear quantum theory suggest infinite universes exist and 99.99% of them don't even have stars, galaxies planets. But the 00.01% that do have life are still infinite and we just find ourselves in a goldelox universe, not because it's meant for us. But because that is the only way we can exist.
https://futurism.com/physicist-convinced-countless-parallel-universes

 

[HootOwl]

I do not have a mindset to go getting excited about every new 'possibility' that gets talked about.

That's perfectly fine, but it's a massive disingenuous leap to claim that "nobody" and "no scientists" currently have any inkling of how to tackle this issue when evidence in the research thread is trending towards the opposite.

 

[Contrast]

I don't think materialism is true, but the problem (for us) is panpsychism does NOT guarantee reincarnation any continuation of consciousness after death. It could through certain models, but we don't get to choose how reality works.

I think panpsychism is true because it explains subjectivity of consciousness, free will, and why self organization in nature exist. It has explanatory power. That's why two mainstream models of consciousness "Orch Or and Integrated information both imply panpsychsim. If two mainstream scientific theories on consciousness suggest that subjectivity is fundamental, it's not pseudoscience. However it becomes pseudoscience to use it to justify supernatural things.

 

[hans799]

I'm increasingly reaching the same place. COVID-19 has nothing to do with it in my case (and hopefully you will feel better when you aren't so isolated from it). I highly doubt you will be sick enough to need a ventilator, please try not to let that add to your worries. The world does look like shit right now, though, doesn't it? At least i can hopefully add comfort by saying your Lenire spike is most likely temporary based on testimonials I have read here. Hang in there.

But i do relate to some of your sentiments and it worries me. There really is no *reason* for me to keep going other than the fact that I want to wait to try regenerative medicine so I can hopefully hear a song again in my lifetime. But with Macrolide ototoxicity that's way more of an unknown than with noise induced (though I'm confident regen medicine will fix my tinnitus).

I missed my chance at life. I missed my chance to have my own family as I married a self-absorbed man with a cruel streak who left when I was no longer able to keep my job (emotionally first and then physically). I know I have talked about this before but he literally disappeared for 3 days when I lost my hearing more or less to punish me for pleading with him to change his drinking plans with his sister and then, eventually, he wouldn't even look at me or sit next to me and would refuse to turn down music or the TV when I had my initial hyperacusis and then filmed me hyperventilating from crying so hard to show people what a "child" I had become. I even heard him once on the phone laughing to his sister about how i probably belonged in an insane asylum. And since I had both hearing and visual symptoms he accused me of lying and/or just being mentally ill because that's just too improbable apparently. I don't think you can ever recover from loving someone and trusting them with all your heart and then having them be so cruel. I will carry those scars for whatever length of life I have. I just can't "unsee" how this world can be anymore and maybe that's the crux of my problem.

I'm 42 now. If I heal from regenerative medicine in a few years, i will still have to start completely over.

I have decimated my retirement account. And in addition to Erik leaving, my father (who would have been so wonderful and supportive right now like he was when I had Lyme 15 years ago) passed away a decade ago. My mother is completely impatient with me and has even had her friend (who is local to me) stop to take some of her heirlooms back since I wasn't going to have grandkids.

Only two of my long time friends have tried to really relate to the new, sadder me but they have small children and have their own lives. I realize there are some people would miss me if I was gone but I think many more would be glad i was suffering anymore. They really don't know what to say to me anymore and I don't blame them.

I read once that a lot of Holocaust victims killed themselves *after* they were freed. They were the ones who lost their whole families and didn't know how to start over.

I feel that. I don't/wouldn't know how to start over. I'm too traumatized at this point. And I also have substantial neck arthritis that will need invasive surgery within the next 5-10 years so i am potentially facing serious additional health problems.

Really, the only thing that could make me see the beauty in life again is music. And that's because more than my ears have been damaged, it feels like who I am is lost forever.

The problem is that macrolide ototoxicity is unique in that in addition to hair cells, it also damages certain ion channels in the auditory brainstem (not the same ones Dr. Thanos is working on) so music might be the thing I have to live without but it's also the thing I can't live without anymore.

I'm not immediately suicidal but I can't help but think often that this would be a good place to get off this ride. This feeling will hopefully pass but it's real and i can't pretend it's not here and maybe that's why we all come here to talk about it.

I took a very long walk in the park and thought hard about these things. I came to the conclusion that I'm not offing myself yet because I can't. I have the means - as a veterinarian I think you'd be perfectly familiar with the protocol I have available. What I lack is the will. Things simply aren't bad enough yet to let me override the survival instinct.

Having concluded that, I realized that there are two paths to take from here: either continue to rail against this cage which I can't open yet - or find something, anything, to look forward to and hope for. The second seems to be a lot more adaptive... so that is what I'll do. I choose to derive hope from Lenire maybe working a second time. I'll know in 6-7 weeks. That's a nice long time and will give me a breather.

Until then I'll manage however I can. My main issue is sleep. I have a nice array of sleep aids I haven't really tested yet - mirtazapine, alprazolam, zolpidem, various herbal concoctions - I might as well try them out, see how they work on bad nights. If I'm possibly out of here in a few months, it's not worth worrying that much about tolerance, right?

I think the same logic could apply to your situation. Based on your wording you appear to not be in panic. In fact you've described your difficulties in quite a detached and objective way. (Your husband was a true shithead by the way.) So I think you can't yet muster the will to get off the ride, either.

 

[Tweedleman]

@PeteJ How did the convorsation go when you asked your Dr. for a benzo? Were you brutally honest about your situation?

I'm in Canada as well and was fully expecting my Dr. to laugh in my face, but she was surprisingly supportive. I told her that I'd done some research and found others have had success with clonazepam taking the edge off of their T. She made the risks clear (dependency etc) and wrote me a script for 0.5mg. I'm to follow up with her at the end of the month.

I've been taking 25mg amitriptyline, which helps sleep, but has little to no effect on my T. Going to switch over to the clonazepam tonight and see how it goes.

 

[bobvann]

Of course I'm not a scientist - my only forte was jazz.

All I know is that year on year we go on suffering with no treatment to alleviate our struggle.
I do not have a mindset to go getting excited about every new 'possibility' that gets talked about.

Cliff hanging is exhausting.

If and when a viable treatment is brought to market, proves itself by reviews from reliable people of integrity, then I will be cheering of course.

Kinda like all the hopes that were pinned on Lenire...

 

[Orions Pain]

This whole pandemic and tinnitus and whatever mess really makes me think... Why go on? What's there to look forward to? I'm not interested in starting a family; and apart from that I've reached all the conventional milestones in life. There are no really new experiences in store for me. What is guaranteed, however, is a gradual decay of this god damned body I'm forced to live in. Tinnitus and insomnia is already torturous... what will the next one be? Chronic pain? Neurological damage? A few weeks being intubated on a breathing machine? Stay alive and find out!

Fuck this shit. Really. Not just the tinnitus, all of it.

This is how I feel. My major goals in life were always establish a good career (ruined by hyperacusis) get married/have kids, buy a cute little house (also ruined by hyperacusis) & just to enjoy life. Travel, music, celebrations, the things that make life for normal people worth living, which I can no longer enjoy because of fear of making T/H worse. Even if things to improve, I'll always be living in fear.

Something about suffering this much at a somewhat young age really changes your view of life itself and that bad things can happen to anyone, at any point. Like what if I do decide to have a kid even with all this BS and pain (which would be dumb of me), there's no guarantee the baby wouldn't have some sort of messed up issues and life would be even more difficult.

Plus the idea of your body just getting older, weaker, more pain, more medication, not having any money or anyone to take care of you, it's all just so depressing.

I'm hanging in here because I love my parents and I'm too afraid of pain to off myself for now. But a few years of living like this and idk. TBD.

I don't know how people with severe chronic illnesses do it, year after year. I truly don't.

 

[Orions Pain]

Living is for normies dude.

Living is for people who are lucky enough to not have to suffer with incurable health issues until they're way older. Once you experience something shitty, it really messes with your mind. Especially with things like tinnitus that have maybe a 1% chance of going away. All you have to look forward to is it worsening as you get older. Enough to drive anyone insane

 

[Contrast]

I avoid benzos like the plague despite having panic attacks and internal fear from suffering and abuse.

 

[Contrast]

I am aching for a task to complete... so I can leave. I really do not have any more business here.

 

[Daniel Lion]

I'm increasingly reaching the same place. COVID-19 has nothing to do with it in my case (and hopefully you will feel better when you aren't so isolated from it). I highly doubt you will be sick enough to need a ventilator, please try not to let that add to your worries. The world does look like shit right now, though, doesn't it? At least i can hopefully add comfort by saying your Lenire spike is most likely temporary based on testimonials I have read here. Hang in there.

But i do relate to some of your sentiments and it worries me. There really is no *reason* for me to keep going other than the fact that I want to wait to try regenerative medicine so I can hopefully hear a song again in my lifetime. But with Macrolide ototoxicity that's way more of an unknown than with noise induced (though I'm confident regen medicine will fix my tinnitus).

I missed my chance at life. I missed my chance to have my own family as I married a self-absorbed man with a cruel streak who left when I was no longer able to keep my job (emotionally first and then physically). I know I have talked about this before but he literally disappeared for 3 days when I lost my hearing more or less to punish me for pleading with him to change his drinking plans with his sister and then, eventually, he wouldn't even look at me or sit next to me and would refuse to turn down music or the TV when I had my initial hyperacusis and then filmed me hyperventilating from crying so hard to show people what a "child" I had become. I even heard him once on the phone laughing to his sister about how i probably belonged in an insane asylum. And since I had both hearing and visual symptoms he accused me of lying and/or just being mentally ill because that's just too improbable apparently. I don't think you can ever recover from loving someone and trusting them with all your heart and then having them be so cruel. I will carry those scars for whatever length of life I have. I just can't "unsee" how this world can be anymore and maybe that's the crux of my problem.

I'm 42 now. If I heal from regenerative medicine in a few years, i will still have to start completely over.

I have decimated my retirement account. And in addition to Erik leaving, my father (who would have been so wonderful and supportive right now like he was when I had Lyme 15 years ago) passed away a decade ago. My mother is completely impatient with me and has even had her friend (who is local to me) stop to take some of her heirlooms back since I wasn't going to have grandkids.

Only two of my long time friends have tried to really relate to the new, sadder me but they have small children and have their own lives. I realize there are some people would miss me if I was gone but I think many more would be glad i was suffering anymore. They really don't know what to say to me anymore and I don't blame them.

I read once that a lot of Holocaust victims killed themselves *after* they were freed. They were the ones who lost their whole families and didn't know how to start over.

I feel that. I don't/wouldn't know how to start over. I'm too traumatized at this point. And I also have substantial neck arthritis that will need invasive surgery within the next 5-10 years so i am potentially facing serious additional health problems.

Really, the only thing that could make me see the beauty in life again is music. And that's because more than my ears have been damaged, it feels like who I am is lost forever.

The problem is that macrolide ototoxicity is unique in that in addition to hair cells, it also damages certain ion channels in the auditory brainstem (not the same ones Dr. Thanos is working on) so music might be the thing I have to live without but it's also the thing I can't live without anymore.

I'm not immediately suicidal but I can't help but think often that this would be a good place to get off this ride. This feeling will hopefully pass but it's real and i can't pretend it's not here and maybe that's why we all come here to talk about it.

Wow... I am glad you let that out. Wish I could hug you now or at least bring you a nice cup of coffee or something comforting.

At the end of your writing you said " hopefully this feeling will pass".

I do believe it will. I do believe life will reveal more surprises and meaning and purpose for you that are good and possibly beyond your love for music. It just hasn't happened yet. These things do take time. You are truly not alone FGG. You are such a great giving person.
Hang in there friend... I can speak for everyone and say we are truly empathetic and sorry your feeling those feelings. The world is most certainly a better place with you, you are a blessing to all of us here on the forum.

My words are insufficient... it's frustrating....

See you around friend
With Love... Daniel

 

[GlennS]

I don't know how people with severe chronic illnesses do it, year after year. I truly don't.

A lot of tinnitus sufferers such as myself got it early in life and have had to deal with feeling as though our life was effectively ruined, that we were cheated out of the best years of our lives. I can point to some regretful incidents in my past that are linked to the suffering from tinnitus. At the same time, I do have a list of achievements as well, many more achievements than I thought I would accomplish when I first fell into a pit of despair and effectively wrote off my future. While I know I'd have achieved more without tinnitus dragging me down, I also know there are a lot of people out there who don't have tinnitus could not achieve some of the things I have. So I don't think I can ever reach my full potential, but just maxing out what I CAN do is still worth something. That is part of the gratitude I have to practice in the back of my head as I continue to take things one day at a time.

I struggle to feel joy and relaxation. But despite that I can still pull it together and do my job, provide for my family, offer conversation, live vicariously through other people's happiness. As long as I feel like there's a reason for me to be here ala It's a Wonderful Life then it helps compensate for the suffering.

 

[Contrast]

MPP is dying like me.

 

[Zugzug]

I missed my chance at life. I missed my chance to have my own family as I married a self-absorbed man with a cruel streak who left when I was no longer able to keep my job (emotionally first and then physically). I know I have talked about this before but he literally disappeared for 3 days when I lost my hearing more or less to punish me for pleading with him to change his drinking plans with his sister and then, eventually, he wouldn't even look at me or sit next to me and would refuse to turn down music or the TV when I had my initial hyperacusis and then filmed me hyperventilating from crying so hard to show people what a "child" I had become. I even heard him once on the phone laughing to his sister about how i probably belonged in an insane asylum. And since I had both hearing and visual symptoms he accused me of lying and/or just being mentally ill because that's just too improbable apparently. I don't think you can ever recover from loving someone and trusting them with all your heart and then having them be so cruel. I will carry those scars for whatever length of life I have. I just can't "unsee" how this world can be anymore and maybe that's the crux of my problem.

As someone with a perfect spouse who is doing everything and sacrificing everything for me, this story kills me inside. I'm hanging on by a thread without any responsibilities other than to try to improve. My family does the typical thing of thinking about theories for what caused my problems, etc. But even the theories that I find offensive never go to a land of "I'm making it up."

Something that probably helped me is that I'm a male and I was successful at my career (not saying you weren't). All the hoops that I've jumped through -- it doesn't make sense that I would randomly be unable to leave my house, etc.

But it shouldn't matter. I could be a damn pothead with no direction in life. Suffering is suffering, and people deserve to be believed. This forum has to be a godsend for people with abusive family members. Hell, it's a godsend for me just for the nuances of this problem that I understand that my family and wife don't.

Hopefully some of these therapies in the pipeline will help. I'll say the same thing to you that I said to Contrast, which is that you have so much value on this forum. Keep fighting!

 

[Bill Bauer]

If a different sperm made it to the egg, according to materialism you would have not been someone else, you would just not exist without ever knowing it.

Someone else would have existed. When we pick a Lotto 649 combination, it isn't a miracle. It is only a miracle if our combination matches the winning combination...

 

[Bill Bauer]

yes, if materialism is true.

What is the alternative?

 

[Contrast]

Reminder after I am dead, the future is NOT DETERMINED. It's up for us to change fate!

Ten years from now there could be a cure, or behaviorist TRT/ACT shit for brains could dominate the field and hold it back another ten years. You the conscious agent makes the future. Determinism is incompatible with MPP's core philosophical view point.

 

[Contrast]

What is the alternative?

Taking neuroscience literally hints at panpsychism. The cells in your brain could be tweaked by a mad neuroscientist to process audiotory stimuli as visual stimuli, and visual stimuli as sound. The mad scientist could make cold appear hot, and hot appear cold just by tweaking brain chemistry. The "external world" is suppose to be a re-creation of reality by your consciousness. But if our brains are capable of creating a virtual copy of the "external world" How do you know the Universe is not a shared dream?

Let's do a thought experiment.

A cheeseburger existing in a hypothetical space-time universe with zero consciousness would have all it's properties except the SUBJECTIVE ONES. The subjective taste of the cheeseburgers chemical molucular make up being processed by your taste buds and sent to your brain is part of conscious awareness. The chemicals only have that property because of consciousness experience. Without consciousness the novel property of the "taste of a cheeseburger" would have never existed. What if we take that logic further and state the taste, smell texture, vision or anything relating to the cheese burger means the cheeseburger relies on consciousness to be perceived. Biology, Neural tissue and brains are just the physical logic of what consciousness is doing to make sense of the world.

So the basic argument is a cheeseburgers smell and taste would only be chemicals with ZERO SUBJECTIVE PROPERTIES. Without a consciousness, An alternative brain chemistry could process smell as sound and taste as vision. I also explained how you can take the idea further. I hope I have defended why consciousness has non-reductionable qualities.


Also I'm sure you are familiar with the double slit experiment in quantum physics where the controversial hypothesis states "consciousness is the collapse of the wave function". You can Google search if you aren't. There are good arguments coming from both sides. This is literally where Materialism vs Panpsychism shines best. The alternative view held by respected physcist Sean Caroll is that Infinite universe exist via the "many worlds" hypothesis that mainstream science defends.

 

[Bill Bauer]

But if our brains are capable of creating a virtual copy of the "external world" How do you know the Universe is not a shared dream?

Occam's razor...

Also I'm sure you are familiar with the double slit experiment in quantum physics where the controversial hypothesis states "consciousness is the collapse of the wave function".

Makes sense. The fact that whether or not something is observed makes a difference is certainly evidence against what you refer to as materialism.

The alternative view held by respected physcist Sean Caroll is that Infinite universe exist via the "many worlds" hypothesis that mainstream science defends.

I've never heard about the above (and the info in your screenshot) before today. Fascinating.

It still seems to me that we know too little to be able to make reasonably accurate hypotheses about what might be going on.

 

[Contrast]

 

[F-u-T]

The mad scientist could make cold appear hot, and hot appear cold just by tweaking brain chemistry.

Ever heard of Ciguatera poisoning? It is a toxin you can ingest from eating reef fish from tropical waters. Can make people sick as shit. One of the symptoms is cold feels hot and hot feels cold.

 

[bobvann]

Someone else would have existed. When we pick a Lotto 649 combination, it isn't a miracle. It is only a miracle if our combination matches the winning combination...

My Dad won back in 89 and went broke before passing away 6 years back.

 

[FGG]

My Dad won back in 89 and went broke before passing away 6 years back.

It's crazy how common that apparently is.

 

[Contrast]

Ever heard of Ciguatera poisoning? It is a toxin you can ingest from eating reef fish from tropical waters. Can make people sick as shit. One of the symptoms is cold feels hot and hot feels cold.

tinnitus is brain cells interpreting nothing as sound.

 

[Bill Bauer]

My Dad won back in 89 and went broke before passing away

Neat. How much did he win? What was the time interval between him going broke and him passing away?

 

[Jazzer]

That's perfectly fine, but it's a massive disingenuous leap to claim that "nobody" and "no scientists" currently have any inkling of how to tackle this issue when evidence in the research thread is trending towards the opposite.

Only time will tell........x

 

[Jazzer]

Kinda like all the hopes that were pinned on Lenire...

I was deeply skeptical from the outset having spoken to the lady presenting it at the Birmingham expo a couple of years ago.

I wondered if the Lego machine might have a better chance.....?

 

[Jazzer]

This is how I feel. My major goals in life were always establish a good career (ruined by hyperacusis) get married/have kids, buy a cute little house (also ruined by hyperacusis) & just to enjoy life. Travel, music, celebrations, the things that make life for normal people worth living, which I can no longer enjoy because of fear of making T/H worse. Even if things to improve, I'll always be living in fear.

Something about suffering this much at a somewhat young age really changes your view of life itself and that bad things can happen to anyone, at any point. Like what if I do decide to have a kid even with all this BS and pain (which would be dumb of me), there's no guarantee the baby wouldn't have some sort of messed up issues and life would be even more difficult.

Plus the idea of your body just getting older, weaker, more pain, more medication, not having any money or anyone to take care of you, it's all just so depressing.

I'm hanging in here because I love my parents and I'm too afraid of pain to off myself for now. But a few years of living like this and idk. TBD.

I don't know how people with severe chronic illnesses do it, year after year. I truly don't.

I concur with every word OP.
Your pain is my pain.
Except of course that you are young and I am old.
I was able to do some of those lovely things before this struck me down.
It is so so so much worse for you my lovely friend.
At the moment we only have a stoical acceptance while we experiment with psychological adjustments.
I have found mindfulness and meditation helpful,
Sometimes - when I am engaged in some project or other - writing, conversation, gardening etc... this condition seems less intrusive.

{{{ Big Hug }}}

Dave x
Jazzer

 

[Jazzer]

live vicariously through other people's happiness

Absolutely.
My wife is a beautifully happy person.
My kids and my grandchildren also.
I do get some reflected pleasure from being with them.
Small compensation though.