The Sound of TMJ Related Tinnitus?

[RonnieCarzatto]

So my neuromuscular dentist advised and confirmed I have a slight misaligned jaw and am a teeth grinder at night. Combined with the somatic components of my tinnitus (jaw movements and pressing my temple change the pitch slightly) he believes, though stopped short, of saying he thinks this is what's causing my tinnitus. He's waiting on my visit to the ENT doctor (sigh... Another two month wait...).

I surprisingly had a hard time finding this but for anyone with TMJ/TMD related tinnitus, what does your T sound like exactly? And is it constant? Thank you all for help.

 

[brummygirl]

Hiya My son has TMJ related tinnitus. It is constant and a high pitched electrical type scream. It only varies, to worsen, when he moves his jaw. It has never lessened. What is yours like??

 

[RonnieCarzatto]

Exactly like that. Primarily in my right ear. It's high pitched and sounds like an almost dentist drill. Only varies if I turn my head a certain way, move my jaw a certain way, or apply pressure to the right side of my head...

 

[Wojtek Kalka]

I have a noise trauma tinnitus and it does the same .. so it is not always TMJ related, if I move my head up the sound goes up, if I bite my teeth the sound goes up .. some frequencies mostly 9.6khz some around 6.2 and 8.2 ...but sound like a background hissing .. there is in my humble opinion NO diagnostic for TMJ related Tinnitus so the dentist can only assume it .. there is actually very little diagnostic for Tinnitus at all as far as I know ... you can't diagnose something that only you hear, the only way are measuring your neuronal functions in your brain .. but you have no compare pictures how it was before ...

 

[RonnieCarzatto]

Yeah for me when my tinnitus started, there was no acoustic trauma, no nothing. I banged my head (it wasn't hard at all, no bruise, no goose egg, no concussion, etc.) two weeks prior to T onset and always believed that's what caused it, but why only the right ear? I literally just woke up one day and had a faint noise in my right ear. Cue to one week later, and it's now where it's at. Aside from the aforementioned movements, it has not changed at all. Food/caffeine, alcohol, even marijuana does not affect it. Hearing tests always come back fine and ear examinations show a healthy eardrum. It's just loud, annoying, and constant, and has not changed at all in pitch, volume, or intensity or anything for almost 3 months now minus doing neck/jaw movements and applying pressure to my head. Maybe I have that "hidden hearing loss", though I went to a rather loud bar the other night, could easily have conversations with my friends, and my tinnitus was not affected by it at all.

I'm not 100% positive it's TMJ/TMD related, hence I'm here trying (vainly perhaps) to narrow down the reason since I don't want to accept "just live with it"... maybe when I banged my head it messed with some muscles, not sure at all. But that's the closest I've come to finding a reason for it, especially when the dentist told me about my bruxism.

 

[Wojtek Kalka]

What frequency is it, does it go away from some frequencies for a short time? A lot of tinnitus do that. Try a silent then a medium swipe from 100 to 20000 hz or a sinus tone that lasts 2min how does it react to it?

I have an sleeping cast for my teeth for years always a good thing to have if you grind. I doubt a concussion two weeks to a T onset is the reason but I am not doctor .. yes food does nothing I lived super healthy and super unhealthy over years .. no the slightest difference ..

I do not hear anything above 11k but that was 10 years ago the same. Please do NOT go to loud bars with earplugs.

Yes I would not accept just live with it either, get all classical diagnoses there are to check your ears. Apart from that do not let doctors invite you to their special treatments most ENT know very little about tinnitus and are always looking to sell something .... do DOOAE and ABR checks etc .. Cancer etc ...

 

[Candy]

Why not earplugs?

 

[Lisacb]

Ronnie,
Did you have neck pain when the tinnitus started?

 

[RonnieCarzatto]

@Lisacb Hi there, no neck pain. I get neck pain on very rare occasions, but at tinnitus onset, nothing. It just started.

 

[Lisacb]

Hi Ronnie,

I asked because my t started the same way. I stood up in my attic and hit the top of my head. I woke up two weeks later with T in my right ear. I also woke up with severe neck pain. I also have TMJ and excellent hearing.
I had a scan done on my TM joints and my discs between the bones do not recapture. I went to PT and the therapist stretched my muscles in my mouth which helped with the t. I also did decompression for my severe neck pain. That help my t the most. I am not sure why the decompression worked. Maybe it helped with the pinched nerves in my neck or maybe it was because when I was hooked up to the harness that pulls on the spine it also moves the head and jaw.
I saw a Nucca chiropractor which was worth the cost. My ears no longer ring but I have a weird noise that comes from the back of my neck. I call it my "surround sound". I just saw ANOTHER ent and he told me all my noise is coming from my jaw. Next step is a neuromuscular splint to see if I can get rid of the sounds in my neck.

I thought I would share this with you because of our similarities.

Lisa

 

[RonnieCarzatto]

@Lisacb Hey, first of all, thank you for your anecdotal information, I really do appreciate it. We do indeed sound similar! Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by decompression? Just wondering how I would go about that...

I did actually sign up and meet with a NUCCA Chiropractor 3 weeks ago. He did some x-rays and a whole host of tests and advised me my atlas is tilted for sure. As with most of the health practitioners I've seen, he's not positive this is causing my tinnitus. Certainly suspects it, but can't confirm it. But he was definitely concerned about the tilt, so he's recommending I go through multiple treatments. I've been to about 6 so far. I was wondering if you saw a benefit from this in the short term or it took awhile before you saw results? I'm a bit of a skeptic however I've met multiple people at this particular NUCCA center that swear by this guy, so I'm giving him a chance.

I'm also being fitted for a splint, though that's proving to be a bit of a pain as the dentist keeps sending the mold and the splint lab says they're not good enough :S

 

[Lisacb]

I was also a skeptic. I call it voodoo magic.
If your Dr. offered to balance your Atlas I would think he would have a decompression table. You should ask him if he has ever helped anyone with TMJ through decompression or with any other method.

I had spinal decompression and the Atlas adjustment. Spinal decompression involves stretching the spine to release pinched nerves or help with disc issues/pain in the spine. My Dr. uses a newer type of decompression bed. You lay on a bed and he puts a strap on your forehead and the machine will pull on your spine. The dr. sets up a program in a computer that tells the machine how much weight should be pulled on the spine. It starts slow so you can get use to the stretch. It is safe. You lay straight on the bed with you head resting on a curved device with a strap around your forehead and the machine starts to stretch your spine. The curved device can be uncomfortable because it pulls on the base of your skull and Jaw.
You can actually feel yourself stretching. I was told because of the position of the head and the stretch it can also help with TMJ. The machine stretches and then releases, stretch then release, over and over. Every time there was a stretch I could hear a hiss and then with the release the hiss would go away.
The first time I went I had the Atlas adjustment and the decompression. The T spike and I got very nervous but when I woke up the next morning the T was better. That's how it was every time. I had 18 appts with the Dr. but he only adjusted the Atlas about 10 times. The other 8 times he opted just for the decompression. He also weighed me with my feet on two different scales to see how unbalanced my head sits on the atlas/spine. That is why I am not sure what worked for me. Was it the Atlas adjustment, the stretching of the spine or the pulling on the skull base/Jaw or all of it together??

Sorry for the long explanation.

Please let me know if your splint helps.

 

[RonnieCarzatto]

@Lisacb I will let you know. My NUCCA chiro also did the same thing with the weight scales, and one side was definitely heavier than the other.

I will give it some time, and I'm hoping I get some good results from it. I'll let you know about the splint as well, when I finally get it! Thank you again for the information. I appreciate it.

 

[Lisacb]

Hi Ronnie,
I have been thinking about you. I wanted to ask if you were prescribed steroids to take for the tinniuts; specifically Medrol step down pack and if you have tried physical therapy on your face and mouth for the TMJ.

Lisa

 

[RonnieCarzatto]

@Lisacb Hey Lisa, not so much. I have only just recently looked into jaw therapy. Unfortunately my benefits ran out this year with all of the chiropractor stuff I tried earlier. I will be looking into that avenue. I am getting my dental orthotic in a couple of weeks. Thank you for looking out

 

[Lisacb]

I was first prescribed the Medrol Steroids from the first ent I went to. The steroids cut the ringing down from a full on metal screech to a softer tone. I had three additional packs over the course of 7 months. Every pack reduced the ringing considerably. I believe they saved my life along with all the other PT and decompression I had.
I know that sounds dramatic but that's just the way it is.
I actually have an extra pack I have not taken, just saying...you are welcome to them....

 

[Horizon]

Hi Ronnie,
While your waiting for your splint you could try relaxing your jaw to take the pressure off your TMJ. Keep your jaw slightly open - lips together teeth apart.

 

[Carlyi]

mine is from tmj and the T. varies alot and often dissapears.I heard this is mostly the case with somatic T. Are you sure it's from TMJ?

 

[RonnieCarzatto]

@Carlyi Not sure at all to be frank. At a complete loss, same with my doctor. The quick facts:

1. Tinnitus suddenly appeared out of the blue. No acoustic trauma. I bumped my forehead two weeks prior to tinnitus onset. Very light bump, so a potential cause. Tinnitus primarily in right ear. Always been a fit and in shape guy, for the past ten years (exercise 4 x a week, weights + cardio). No stress event minus my current tinnitus. Never taken pills, never any headaches, I've never had aspirin or tylenol in my life.
2. Went to see GP, ENT, and two audiologists. All advised ear was fine, no infection, and all advised I have excellent hearing. All hearing, pressure, membrane, etc.., all tests passed with flying colours. They all advised they had no idea what was doing this and sent me on my way. ENT didn't think an MRI or CAT scan was necessary, which did upset me. Basically, all told me, ears look fine and that my hearing is really good, and washed their hands of the matter.
3. For the past two years, I've been told by my dentist to get an orthotic/nightguard as I have bruxism; also recommended braces or Invisalign as I have crooked teeth. Orthotic to prevent both the grinding, and to straighten my jaw which is very very slightly out of place per my neuromuscular dentist. Kept putting all that off, simply couldn't afford it and my mouth didn't hurt (it did on occasion) so I figured eh, whatever. I also do have a bad posture.
4. Food, caffeine, exercise, mood, lack of sleep- absolutely nothing affects my tinnitus, which is a constant high pitch tone primarily in my right ear, except for pressing my temporalis muscle on the right side of my head, turning my head to my left (not the right, doesn't do anything), moving my jaw from side to side (especially to my right) and opening my my mouth wide. The pitch gets higher when I do these things. I occasionally get that fleeting tinnitus that lasts for 5 or so seconds. I quit smoking pot for 6 months and zero change to tinnitus; back to smoking pot to help sleep.
5. There's something in my either right jaw joint, or my right ear, that's making crackling/popping noises in my right ear. I thought it was when I was flexing my ear, or straining/clenching my jaw. It's hard to describe the movement I mak-, I know I'm moving some muscle there in my mouth/head area that causes this noise. Doctor thought it was ETD but no such luck.

Basically I can't find any causes. I'm hopeful that it is TMJ related, since I have quite a number of dental, and on top of that, posture problems. Maybe it is hearing related (I've heard of hidden hearing loss through this forum), but yeah, basically, I'm absolutely unsure, and the fact that it affects really one ear (my right one) is what drives me crazy. I made this thread because I was hoping to gather as much information on all different causes of tinnitus to be able to rule some things out or explore different avenues.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Carlyi]

@Carlyi Not sure at all to be frank. At a complete loss, same with my doctor. The quick facts:

1. Tinnitus suddenly appeared out of the blue. No acoustic trauma. I bumped my forehead two weeks prior to tinnitus onset. Very light bump, so a potential cause. Tinnitus primarily in right ear. Always been a fit and in shape guy, for the past ten years (exercise 4 x a week, weights + cardio). No stress event minus my current tinnitus. Never taken pills, never any headaches, I've never had aspirin or tylenol in my life.
2. Went to see GP, ENT, and two audiologists. All advised ear was fine, no infection, and all advised I have excellent hearing. All hearing, pressure, membrane, etc.., all tests passed with flying colours. They all advised they had no idea what was doing this and sent me on my way. ENT didn't think an MRI or CAT scan was necessary, which did upset me. Basically, all told me, ears look fine and that my hearing is really good, and washed their hands of the matter.
3. For the past two years, I've been told by my dentist to get an orthotic/nightguard as I have bruxism; also recommended braces or Invisalign as I have crooked teeth. Orthotic to prevent both the grinding, and to straighten my jaw which is very very slightly out of place per my neuromuscular dentist. Kept putting all that off, simply couldn't afford it and my mouth didn't hurt (it did on occasion) so I figured eh, whatever. I also do have a bad posture.
4. Food, caffeine, exercise, mood, lack of sleep- absolutely nothing affects my tinnitus, which is a constant high pitch tone primarily in my right ear, except for pressing my temporalis muscle on the right side of my head, turning my head to my left (not the right, doesn't do anything), moving my jaw from side to side (especially to my right) and opening my my mouth wide. The pitch gets higher when I do these things. I occasionally get that fleeting tinnitus that lasts for 5 or so seconds. I quit smoking pot for 6 months and zero change to tinnitus; back to smoking pot to help sleep.
5. There's something in my either right jaw joint, or my right ear, that's making crackling/popping noises in my right ear. I thought it was when I was flexing my ear, or straining/clenching my jaw. It's hard to describe the movement I mak-, I know I'm moving some muscle there in my mouth/head area that causes this noise. Doctor thought it was ETD but no such luck.

Basically I can't find any causes. I'm hopeful that it is TMJ related, since I have quite a number of dental, and on top of that, posture problems. Maybe it is hearing related (I've heard of hidden hearing loss through this forum), but yeah, basically, I'm absolutely unsure, and the fact that it affects really one ear (my right one) is what drives me crazy. I made this thread because I was hoping to gather as much information on all different causes of tinnitus to be able to rule some things out or explore different avenues.

Thank you for the reply.

I did read somewhere here from a woman that had a very slight jaw misalignment, almost not noticable, that caused a constant high pitch tinnitus. She wore a nightguard for 2 years to correct her bite and the T. went away completly. Maybe it's worth looking into.

Also there are few muscles in your jaw that can cause tinnitus. the lateral pterygoid,medial pterygoid and the masseter. But i'm not sure if they can cause constant high pitch tinnitus.

I have alot of muscle knots in those muscles which is causing somatic tinnitus. When i wake up it's mostly completly silent. As soon as i start moving my jaw i get low T, when i start eating it goes louder and so on. So in your case there must be a nerve or muscle completly compressed somewhere. Maybe you can push your doctor for an mri. or maybe have 3d pictures taken of your jaw and neck. Must be so hard to never get a break from T.

Also, i had my atlas corrected through Atlas profilax and my T has been alot lower since that aswell.
Atlas profilax are all over the world. Maybe you can look into this aswell. Even if you can bring it down a bit it would be worth it for you.

Sorry for my english. I know it's not superbad but i might explain things a little bit weird

 

[RonnieCarzatto]

@Carlyi No a lot of that does make sense. I'm hoping the night guard does help but I'm not terribly optimistic without an official diagnosis which has been eluding me. I have been going to an Upper Cervical chiropractor who has been adjusting my atlas, no T reduction unfortunately but it is helping with posture problems.

It's been tough, I am handling it okay, but I really hope it goes away.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Swing]

Hi,

my T is very similar. Started from nowhere once so I changed my posiotion while laying in the bed and then went to sleep and tinnitus was away in the morning. Week later it started again and lasts till now. I was 100% sure it's from my neck when it started, I am just not sure if it's muscle tension, vertebrae blocks or TMJ. My T is very high pitched ( around 16 000 Hz) and it's also sharp tone which I am not sure but it's like I could feel it in the back of my head. It's more like high pitched hissing. Before my T started I started to have stiffened back of my head, back pain, head pain and sometimes felt pain in my teeth. Also sometimes I couldn't even swallow O_O. Also had the feeling of sore throat. My T started also in right ear and I can change it a bit by opening mouth, moving head, pressing the muscle around ear and right side of the head or putting pressure on my head.
When I put head like I was trying to touch my back I can hear T mainly in my left ear while I put my head to my chest I can hear it mainly in my right ear.

I am going to physiotheraphist and he told me I've got blocked spine on 15 vertebraes and since we started working on it, my T is always a bit different and also I can hear it in my left ear too.

1,5 year ago I had contusion of neck spine and symptoms were the same as I described except tinnitus.

My possible causes of T: (probability)
1. Neck spine, TMJ or muscle tension (80%)
2. Lyme disease ( still not confirmed if I have it.. had it in 2008 and since then had no troubles with it. But 2 week before T I had a tick but without any symptoms of Lyme) (10%)
3. Stress, Anxienty (10%)

I've got no hearing loss or.. 2% and it's 0,5% better then a year ago ) may be caused just because of the speed of the test and reflexes due to my ENT. She says that I have perfect hearing.

Here is my high detailed picture of the stupid position I had very often before I got T and when I got T . Hell for jaw and spine, mainly the neck spine.

 

[Codaz]

I was also a skeptic. I call it voodoo magic.
If your Dr. offered to balance your Atlas I would think he would have a decompression table. You should ask him if he has ever helped anyone with TMJ through decompression or with any other method.

I had spinal decompression and the Atlas adjustment. Spinal decompression involves stretching the spine to release pinched nerves or help with disc issues/pain in the spine. My Dr. uses a newer type of decompression bed. You lay on a bed and he puts a strap on your forehead and the machine will pull on your spine. The dr. sets up a program in a computer that tells the machine how much weight should be pulled on the spine. It starts slow so you can get use to the stretch. It is safe. You lay straight on the bed with you head resting on a curved device with a strap around your forehead and the machine starts to stretch your spine. The curved device can be uncomfortable because it pulls on the base of your skull and Jaw.
You can actually feel yourself stretching. I was told because of the position of the head and the stretch it can also help with TMJ. The machine stretches and then releases, stretch then release, over and over. Every time there was a stretch I could hear a hiss and then with the release the hiss would go away.
The first time I went I had the Atlas adjustment and the decompression. The T spike and I got very nervous but when I woke up the next morning the T was better. That's how it was every time. I had 18 appts with the Dr. but he only adjusted the Atlas about 10 times. The other 8 times he opted just for the decompression. He also weighed me with my feet on two different scales to see how unbalanced my head sits on the atlas/spine. That is why I am not sure what worked for me. Was it the Atlas adjustment, the stretching of the spine or the pulling on the skull base/Jaw or all of it together??

Sorry for the long explanation.

Please let me know if your splint helps.

Please tell me more about this table, I'm quite interested.

 

[Codaz]

I was first prescribed the Medrol Steroids from the first ent I went to. The steroids cut the ringing down from a full on metal screech to a softer tone. I had three additional packs over the course of 7 months. Every pack reduced the ringing considerably. I believe they saved my life along with all the other PT and decompression I had.
I know that sounds dramatic but that's just the way it is.
I actually have an extra pack I have not taken, just saying...you are welcome to them....

It's strange to read that a combination of physical training and medrol seems to lower it. I wonder why.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I have mentioned before that I have one leg shorter then the other. A PT said that he wouldn't perform atlas or decompression therapy because I have a ruptured disk in lower back. He said to use a sole pad in shoe of shorter leg. The problem is I like to walk around the house in stockings. He said for me to get corrections in my neck, weight on each side must be balanced.

@Codaz Do you still have less ringing and a softer tone from using the Medrol Steroids. Could you talk more about this. Thanks

 

[Codaz]

I have mentioned before that I have one leg shorter then the other. A PT said that he wouldn't perform atlas or decompression therapy because I have a ruptured disk in lower back. He said to use a sole pad in shoe of shorter leg. The problem is I like to walk around the house in stockings. He said for me to get corrections in my neck, weight on each side must be balanced.

@Codaz Do you still have less ringing and a softer tone from using the Medrol Steroids. Could you talk more about this. Thanks

I only had Medrol 14 days after onset which is probably late (if not too late) while I got it 3 days after onset, but I discussed it first with my Dutch GP and he didn't think it would work. Should have started earlier. Used it for 10 days and opinions differ. It made it super loud for an hour and then decrease. It was 9 or 10/10 loud with Medrol but in the end i'm 99% sure it helped. It is a devastating and ridiculous fact that Dutch ENT's do not give it.

I'm blessed that my T even on the worst days isn't 9/10 or 10/10 loud anymore.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Codaz When I wrote the post above, I overlooked Medrol being a steroid. I took prednisone at two weeks and it didn't help.

 

[Codaz]

@Codaz When I wrote the post above, I overlooked Medrol being a steroid. I took prednisone at two weeks and it didn't help.

I mixed up cortisone and prednisone, but it might be the same. I'm not an MD.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

This morning I was able to talk to a tinnitus researcher that I had talked to before. I won't get into details with much on what he had to say other than him saying it's often the neck and posture. Most of us already know this from research.

He said jaw issues relating to T most always has association to the neck and that many times the neck doesn't hurt. He said sound exposure damage is often related to posture and described the connection to the DCN. This connection can involve many muscle and nerves that also have neuro association to the spine including C1 and C2. Muscle spasms, bending neck forward, twisting neck accompanied by excitement in the presence of noise causes the DCN to react.

This again this makes me think about why those attaining a loud theater movie don't often get tinnitus as those attending a music concert might. People viewing a movie are not twisting their necks. So why don't more football players get tinnitus from activity. It's because they have good muscle training and therefore have a straight and healthy spine. For them the only problem is clenching teeth, so many wear mouth guards while playing.

I was provided with one exercise. Bring in shoulders while standing, bring in stomach and tighten and have neck extended to an upwards position. Not to bend neck forward or backwards.

No person should ever blame themselves. Life is complicated and no one does all the right things and makes all the right life decisions. What is right or ok for one may not be right for another.

 

[Codaz]

This morning I was able to talk to a tinnitus researcher that I had talked to before. I won't get into details with much on what he had to say other than him saying it's often the neck and posture. Most of us already know this from research.

He said jaw issues relating to T most always has association to the neck and that many times the neck doesn't hurt. He said sound exposure damage is often related to posture and described the connection to the DCN. This connection can involve many muscle and nerves that also have neuro association to the spine including C1 and C2. Muscle spasms, bending neck forward, twisting neck accompanied by excitement in the presence of noise causes the DCN to react.

This again this makes me think about why those attaining a loud theater movie don't often get tinnitus as those attending a music concert might. People viewing a movie are not twisting their necks. So why don't more football players get tinnitus from activity. It's because they have good muscle training and therefore have a straight and healthy spine. For them the only problem is clenching teeth, so many wear mouth guards while playing.

I was provided with one exercise. Bring in shoulders while standing, bring in stomach and tighten and have neck extended to an upwards position. Not to bend neck forward or backwards.

No person should ever blame themselves. Life is complicated and no one does all the right things and makes all the right life decisions. What is right or ok for one may not be right for another.

So the position of he neck and head affects the way noise damage is done if I understand you correctly? Quite weird.