Tinnitus Began First Week of June 2020 After Wim Hof Breathing

[MrC6688]

I don't think so but the fullness in the ears is what concerns me (on top of the tinnitus).

I am hoping to see an ENT tomorrow, though I don't know how much they could possibly do at this point.

I hope this is the case and that it can be resolved; however, it seems more likely that the hypoxia caused some damage. I'm just in shock how a breathing exercise put us in this predicament.

For what it's worth, this guy discusses hypoxia in this video:



Keep in mind, he's a Wim Hof instructor and avoids any mention about the negatives of inducing hypoxia as part of the breathing method.

CO2 concentration will cause vasoconstriction or vasodilation depending on the tissue, and also acidifies the blood making hemoglobin change shape and "let go" of oxygen more.

Lowering it undoubtedly would cause vasoconstriction in smaller arterioles as well as no change in oxygenation to tissues.

Cold also constricts smaller vessels severely so you stay conscious, like in your inner ear or fingers when subjected to hypothermia.

So no, you haven't "upset your ionic balance" in your inner ear, you don't have Meniere's. It doesn't fit anything.

You literally caused from synergistic cold and hyperventilation rather impressive vasospasm, abnormally strong binding of O2 to blood (not to where it needs to go, the tissues), and slowing reactions with colder blood / the cell needs to keep up to survive (ATP production) ultimately would kill off highly metabolic aerobic cells (aka the 10k+ hair cells). So, you have high pitched ringing now. Yes it can be somewhat reversed with time.

It's why if you get hypothermia or pass out you may feel ringing in your ears during the episode until you warm up so it's "temporarily" because you didn't do massive damage... but there's only so many cycles of that nerve cells can take, especially ones that are barely fed enough and are highly metabolically active.

Lower frequencies though more vulnerable to vasospasm don't seem to use as much O2 (so I'd guess it takes longer to kill those off if conditions are kept the same).
Our bodies detect CO2, NOT Oxygenation, is part of the reason why hyperbaric oxygen is rarely helpful (basically only in stroke or necrosis when there's no other way to "get oxygen" there, those blood vessels in your ear didn't die off by noise or meds) and can be toxic as our bodies won't regulate too much of a good thing if it comes to that (seizures / oxidation of membranes).

There are benefits to cold, and starving some tissues of some O2 might be beneficial, but you're going to kill cells along the way.

Thanks for all of that information. It's very interesting.

Question: What if all people did was the breathing exercises and did not expose themselves to a cold shower? Many of us have developed the high pitched ringing after the forced exhale and breath hold, followed by the inhale and 15 second hold without taking the cold showers.

Many of us also feel a certain blockage or fullness in our ears, or a sensation like the ears won't pop. What do you think could be causing that?

In my case, I went to an ENT and audiologist and they found nothing wrong. The ENT's only guess was that I had inflammation of the inner ear and he said it would go away with time. Many people have this high pitched ear ringing for months after first contracting it from Wim Hof breathing. For some people it resolves on its own within a few days, some within a few weeks, and others it could last for months. I'm very curious as to why this is. It would be amazing to speak to someone who did Wim Hof, had the lingering tinnitus and then recovered from it, just to hear their story.

 

[Lukee]

Hey @MrC6688,
I saw in another post that you say your symptoms are getting better... I know you have been doing the ETD exercises and now are starting with the Ayurvedic physician.

Do you feel less pressure now than you did originally? Has your tinnitus gotten better?

Curious if your symptoms are resolving slowly.
Also, you mention in your post:

For some people it resolves on its own within a few days, some within a few weeks, and others it could last for months.

Have you read people recovering after weeks and months? I have only seen some WHM users say they had it temporary (a day or so) or permanently. I have yet to read of anyone recovering after weeks or months. I hope you're right.

L

 

[MrC6688]

Hey @MrC6688,
I saw in another post that you say your symptoms are getting better... I know you have been doing the ETD exercises and now are starting with the Ayurvedic physician.

Do you feel less pressure now than you did originally? Has your tinnitus gotten better?

Curious if your symptoms are resolving slowly.
Also, you mention in your post:

Have you read people recovering after weeks and months? I have only seen some WHM users say they had it temporary (a day or so) or permanently. I have yet to read of anyone recovering after weeks or months. I hope you're right.

L

One woman said it resolved after three weeks. And then she resumed the breathing exercises (which I wouldn't do). I said that it seems that some people have a recovery period after a few days, a few weeks, or it persists for months. I have yet to read about anyone coming out to a full recovery after a few months but that doesn't mean it can't happen. In one of the videos by the chiropractor Dr. Adam Fields, he helped someone recover from Meniere's after having it for 8 years using cranial adjustment therapy. When I spoke to him last month, he suggested that as a possible treatment for this condition as well.

The Ayurvedic physician I spoke with this week thought the condition was treatable as well. The way he made it sound was that our nervous systems have been "shocked" by the extended breath hold and that it needed to be readjusted through diet, yogic exercises, and other methods. I'm waiting for him to draft the list of things to do and will see how it goes. Regarding the system being shocked, Wim Hof discusses this also when he says the breathing exercise puts our bodies into "flight or fight". I'm guessing, the body might go overboard due to high strain put on it during the breath hold and remain completely shocked by the exercise, and then a host of physical issues might accompany the shocked feeling (i.e. blocked ears, tinnitus).

Regarding my symptoms, the pressure definitely lessened over time. I remember when I first got the tinnitus back in June, I could barely bend over to tie my shoes because the pressure would build up in my ears and it would be uncomfortable. I've had wax issues before and that same painful feeling in the ears is what it felt like. My ears would also hurt if I laid on one side of my head during sleep. I'd wake up, and the side of my head facing down would have the ear pain. Also, I remember one morning, I woke up to a vibrational low sounding humming noise coming from my right ear that slowly went away.

I told all of this to my ENT when I saw him in July. After seeing him and the audiologist, and having the MRI, I was surprised that they found nothing wrong. His hypothesis was that I had inflammation of the inner ear and that it would resolve on its own. He said it could take weeks or months, but that it should resolve. Who knows... I don't want to lose hope and feel this condition is incurable.

As I type this, I still have the high pitched "eeeee" sound and my ears won't pop. Interestingly though, I blew my nose today and I felt ear go through my right ear. It hasn't done that since June. Then before I blew my nose again and there was pressure in both ears.

I wish there was an ENT or neurologist who could read this post and give us their take honestly.

 

[Lukee]

Interestingly though, I blew my nose today and I felt ear go through my right ear. It hasn't done that since June. Then before I blew my nose again and there was pressure in both ears.

That sounds promising.

Over the last two days I can get my ears to pop a little more but it's not a full on equalization like on a plane. It's a little achy like almost the feeling of an ear infection coming on... every so often I get a slight pain in either ear. My tinnitus hasn't gotten better and goes up and down for sure. I'm hopeful that the fullness will subside and with that the tinnitus will go away as well.

have you thought about a Dexamethasone injection? It seems very promising especially early on in acute phase.

What really surprises me is we don't have a full explanation for what is happening considering the number of people that are partaking in WHM. What I find odd is that except for Meniere's, there doesn't seem to be many other explanations for the fullness.

Also, the one person who relapsed due to starting the breathing exercises again, it seems like her initial steroid treatment worked. I am thinking about trying to get an injection myself.

Btw, here is a pretty complete list of causes for tinnitus and accompanying systems:

http://www.europeanreview.org/wp/wp...-When-alarm-bells-ring-emergency-tinnitus.pdf

Let's keep each other in the loop.

L

 

[MrC6688]

That sounds promising.

Over the last two days I can get my ears to pop a little more but it's not a full on equalization like on a plane. It's a little achy like almost the feeling of an ear infection coming on... every so often I get a slight pain in either ear. My tinnitus hasn't gotten better and goes up and down for sure. I'm hopeful that the fullness will subside and with that the tinnitus will go away as well.

have you thought about a Dexamethasone injection? It seems very promising especially early on in acute phase.

What really surprises me is we don't have a full explanation for what is happening considering the number of people that are partaking in WHM. What I find odd is that except for Meniere's, there doesn't seem to be many other explanations for the fullness.

Also, the one person who relapsed due to starting the breathing exercises again, it seems like her initial steroid treatment worked. I am thinking about trying to get an injection myself.

Btw, here is a pretty complete list of causes for T and accompanying systems.
http://www.europeanreview.org/wp/wp...-When-alarm-bells-ring-emergency-tinnitus.pdf

Let's keep each other in the loop.

L

I haven't tried that. When I got my tinnitus in June, I was just administered Prednisone a few weeks later in early July. When I took the first tablet of 20mg, it seemed to help. I just didn't like the side effects (it felt like I had drank way too much coffee), so it was cut down to 10mg and that didn't do anything for me unfortunately. It's been 8 months, hopefully that isn't too long to wait in order to have the shot and have it help? It's crazy that the ear fullness and tinnitus have lasted this long. My ENT did say it could take months for it to resolve itself and he didn't put a timetable on it, but this is getting a little ridiculous.

Thanks for that link. I'll check it out. Definitely, keep me posted and I'll do the same.

 

[MrC6688]

That sounds promising.

Over the last two days I can get my ears to pop a little more but it's not a full on equalization like on a plane. It's a little achy like almost the feeling of an ear infection coming on... every so often I get a slight pain in either ear. My tinnitus hasn't gotten better and goes up and down for sure. I'm hopeful that the fullness will subside and with that the tinnitus will go away as well.

have you thought about a Dexamethasone injection? It seems very promising especially early on in acute phase.

What really surprises me is we don't have a full explanation for what is happening considering the number of people that are partaking in WHM. What I find odd is that except for Meniere's, there doesn't seem to be many other explanations for the fullness.

Also, the one person who relapsed due to starting the breathing exercises again, it seems like her initial steroid treatment worked. I am thinking about trying to get an injection myself.

Btw, here is a pretty complete list of causes for tinnitus and accompanying systems:

http://www.europeanreview.org/wp/wp...-When-alarm-bells-ring-emergency-tinnitus.pdf

Let's keep each other in the loop.

L

@Lukee hmmm... look at the side effects this woman experienced: My Tinnitus Is OK Now After Dexamethasone

 

[Lukee]

Wow that's crazy. I am assuming she had such severe effects because it was delivered by IV. So you need enough to spread throughout the body. I would think that applying it to the source would have much less severe effects and since it's such a small amount, it should be much safer in the bloodstream.

Dexamethasone is basically last line of defense for COVID-19 patients as well; they will only use it for life or death because of the side effects. But again, that's being delivered in higher doses throughout the entire body and not localized. Waiting to talk to a doctor and see what happens. All I can tell you is the tinnitus and pressure seem to really pick up in the evening. Not sure if yours is the same.

 

[MrC6688]

Wow that's crazy. I am assuming she had such severe effects because it was delivered by IV. So you need enough to spread throughout the body. I would think that applying it to the source would have much less severe effects and since it's such a small amount, it should be much safer in the bloodstream.

Dexamethasone is basically last line of defense for COVID-19 patients as well; they will only use it for life or death because of the side effects. But again, that's being delivered in higher doses throughout the entire body and not localized. Waiting to talk to a doctor and see what happens. All I can tell you is the tinnitus and pressure seem to really pick up in the evening. Not sure if yours is the same.

Mine seems to be at its worst right before bedtime and as soon as I wake up in the morning. Thankfully once I fall asleep I don't hear it.

Let us know what your doc says.

P.S. Make sure you walk him through what happened step-by-step. I know when I spoke to my ENT he literally said it was the first time he had ever heard of someone contracting tinnitus from holding their breath or doing breathe exercises. I'm finding that this is something most Western medical professionals aren't too familiar with.

 

[MrC6688]

Guys, for what it's worth I came across this thread on supplements that may help:

My Ototoxic / Stress-Induced Tinnitus Is Nearly Gone

Here's a breakdown on the person's regimen:

• Ginkgo Biloba E761 - 80mg morning + 80mg evening
  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...title_huc_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2FH51XSX3SGEH
  
  
• B-Complex - 1 tablet an hour after morning Ginkgo Biloba
  Any brand
  
  
• Zinc Picolinate - 22mg with a meal that doesn't have phytic acid (bread, rice, grain etc) and Calcium (milk, cheese etc) so it is absorbed correctly.
  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B..._title_dp_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A32GOXAC8X4KTS

Alternatively, he said he started on a combo of 600mg NAC, B-Complex and 22mg Zinc Picolinate.

There's a few different brands for the NAC. I've ordered from Nutricost before for other supplements and had a good experience with them, so I'll list theirs here. Any brand will probably do though:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B..._title_dp_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2YD2H3KGK1F4L

 

[Lukee]

It's good to see some hope for resolution though his tinnitus is from an ototoxic original so not sure how helpful the regimen is for us. Also, while I believe the supplements can help mildly, I believe his symptoms might have improved more so because of time rather than the supplements.

His diet was also very, very strict and that may have contributed to the recovery. We don't know his underlying medical issues but it's possible for someone to have high blood pressure, for example, and be able to better control their tinnitus by diet and keep their blood pressure lower.

I guess for the most part, it doesn't hurt to try the supps. I already have the NAC and will add the other two and try for a bit especially being in acute phase.

As for the fullness in the ears we have been experiencing, I have been reading that it indicates damage. It seems that it is not uncommon with some types of tinnitus.

With that being said, some members have warned against using the valsalva maneuver to equalize pressure as it causes further damage. They say that the ears have a feeling of fullness because of damage not because of pressure. Not sure exactly what is causing ours but I guess it's good to keep our mind open.

L

 

[MrC6688]

It's good to see some hope for resolution though his tinnitus is from an ototoxic original so not sure how helpful the regimen is for us. Also, while I believe the supplements can help mildly, I believe his symptoms might have improved more so because of time rather than the supplements.

His diet was also very, very strict and that may have contributed to the recovery. We don't know his underlying medical issues but it's possible for someone to have high blood pressure, for example, and be able to better control their tinnitus by diet and keep their blood pressure lower.

I guess for the most part, it doesn't hurt to try the supps. I already have the NAC and will add the other two and try for a bit especially being in acute phase.

As for the fullness in the ears we have been experiencing, I have been reading that it indicates damage. It seems that it is not uncommon with some types of tinnitus.

With that being said, some members have warned against using the valsalva maneuver to equalize pressure as it causes further damage. They say that the ears have a feeling of fullness because of damage not because of pressure. Not sure exactly what is causing ours but I guess it's good to keep our mind open.

L

Has anyone investigated the theory that tinnitus could be a result from a shock to the sympathetic nervous system, which, in turn, could cause the other ailments (i.e. blocked ears, inflammation)?

Indeed, Wim Hof says his exercises target the sympathetic nervous system. Perhaps this is why our doctors aren't finding anything wrong with our ear canals? Nothing out of the ordinary showed up on my MRI and my ENT said I was fine. Well, if I was... then why the tinnitus and ear pain?

Not trying to bash Western medicine but they aren't always receptive to holistic healing. This is why I'm trying the Ayurvedic physician. I'm not sure what the result will be, but he also thinks the reason for our tinnitus could be because we've overloaded our nervous system to the point where we caused trauma (holding one's breath to the brink of dying can do that I suppose). So, it's this traumatic experience to our nervous system that needs healing (and will hopefully in turn help resolve the tinnitus and other issues). That's the idea anyway. I'm just curious if anyone is finding out info in this regard.

@Lukee, as far as damage to the ears that you mentioned, it could have been a result of the pressure imbalance as well, from the breath hold. I know when I took the prednisone it temporarily healed that for me. But then it came back. So that may suggest that there was inflammation issues going on.

I'm stabbing in the dark along with you guys and trying to figure this out, so forgive me if I repeat anything or sound redundant. We're all in this together.

 

[Lukee]

No problem @MrC6688, you are right, we are in this together and the more info we can share, the better the outcome will be.

I have also noticed that I have slight headaches every once in a while. Not enough to even want to take a pain reliever but just subtle nuisances. Do you experience them?

Do you still exercise regularly? Has the pressure impacted your exercise at all outside of the couple times your were dizzy?

In terms of the Prednisone, I'm wondering if you would've kept course if it would've better resolved your tinnitus. If the ear pressure was gone and the tinnitus had subsided after you took it, maybe you needed a longer course to reduce the inflammation enough for healing.

How much would you say your tinnitus and ear fullness have improved over the last 8 months? 50%?

L

 

[MrC6688]

No problem @MrC6688, you are right, we are in this together and the more info we can share, the better the outcome will be.

I have also noticed that I have slight headaches every once in a while. Not enough to even want to take a pain reliever but just subtle nuisances. Do you experience them?

Do you still exercise regularly? Has the pressure impacted your exercise at all outside of the couple times your were dizzy?

In terms of the Prednisone, I'm wondering if you would've kept course if it would've better resolved your tinnitus. If the ear pressure was gone and the tinnitus had subsided after you took it, maybe you needed a longer course to reduce the inflammation enough for healing.

How much would you say your tinnitus and ear fullness have improved over the last 8 months? 50%?

L

Headaches? Interestingly enough I used to get regular bad headaches every day at 3pm during my work hours and a change in diet towards vegetarian helped resolve them. I haven't seen a rise in headaches after my Wim Hof episode, just the ear pressure. I remember when it first happened in the summer, every time I'd bend down to tie my shoes I would feel a lot of pressure in my ears. That's since gone away but I still can't pop my ears, which is annoying. The tinnitus seems to have its bad and good days. I think if I avoid caffeine, salt, and sugar the tinnitus isn't as bad. I'm just trying my best to eliminate it completely.

It's interesting when you view the tinnitus as a symptom of an underlying issue and take it from there. It's almost like doing detective work. We just need to keep trying to heal each part of the body until the tinnitus is resolved. I'm not going to lose hope. It's not as if we lost our hearing due to loud noise where the hair cells were destroyed. I think this is something different. I'd love to know what is preventing the ears from popping. I was hoping when I had the MRI done that there would have been some clues to that, but my MRI was completely normal.

As far as exercising, I had been working out regularly (push-ups, pull-ups, sit-ups, running) since last year and the tinnitus hadn't affected my workouts at all. Regarding the dizziness experience from 2 weeks ago, I've since laid off exercising a bit and I'm starting to feel better. So getting some rest definitely helped out.

As far as Prednisone, yea I wonder that myself. I mean... I did the entire 8 day cycle. It was just at a reduced dosage. I had a hard time taking 20mg in one shot. I felt like my breathing was off and I felt like I had consumed too much caffeine. But that's me. Some people don't get that reaction to it. It definitely helped so I would give it a shot. Only thing that stunk was as soon as I came off it, the tinnitus came back. So it was more of a temporary fix. I want to find a permanent fix.

In terms of the last 8 months, I would say my tinnitus and ear pressure have improved over time. In the beginning, the ear pressure was awful. I don't have that much pressure anymore, just the inability to pop my ears. The tinnitus is always there in the background. It's at its worst during the night time and morning. When I'm among friends or doing something that has my attention, it doesn't distract me. When I'm outside walking or running, I don't really hear it.

I think staying positive is part of the battle. If we cave in and say "it's hopeless, there's no remedy" then what's the point. There has to be a treatment. Our tinnitus wasn't noise-induced where we destroyed our hearing. This was more of a freak overload of the autonomic nervous system or inner ear pressure. In theory, there should be a way to heal that part of our body. That's my theory anyway.

Again, I wish there were physicians (Western and Eastern) who could see this thread and weigh in on it. It would be great to see people's input. My intention of starting this thread was to share ideas and help others. I'm happy you guys have been contributing and welcome more to join!

 

[Lukee]

@MrC6688, glad to hear you are getting better. Hopefully before a full year you will have mostly recovered.

Do you still do the cold showers or baths? Also, do you find your tinnitus gets worse depending on what you eat or drink?

I haven't noticed it yet but I haven't had it very long. It seems to be that most people with noise-induced tinnitus (and maybe other types) seem to complain about salt, sugar, dairy and caffeine. I've been off coffee for some time and eat relatively healthy so not sure if food has an effect on mine. Curious if our tinnitus reacts to the same stimulants.

L

 

[Sentenza]

Hello guys. Thank you for this thread. It's good to know that I am not alone with this problem.

After like 3 weeks of using the Wim Hof Breathing Method I got this high pitched eeeee sound permanent as well. I have had it for 4 days now and just started to research the problem and found your post.

One symptom started even before the permanent ringing for me. When I stand up quickly after sitting for a long time I nearly black out. Never had issues like that prior to using the method.

I'll try a few things and talk to some doctors and I'll also keep you guys updated if I find anything helpful.

 

[MrC6688]

@MrC6688, glad to hear you are getting better. Hopefully before a full year you will have mostly recovered.

Do you still do the cold showers or baths? Also, do you find your tinnitus gets worse depending on what you eat or drink?

I haven't noticed it yet but I haven't had it very long. It seems to be that most people with noise-induced tinnitus (and maybe other types) seem to complain about salt, sugar, dairy and caffeine. I've been off coffee for some time and eat relatively healthy so not sure if food has an effect on mine. Curious if our tinnitus reacts to the same stimulants.

L

I don't actually. After I had the tinnitus back in June, I stopped the WHM altogether.

Regarding what I eat, yes if I eat an overly salty meal I get a spike in tinnitus. Absolutely. Same thing happens to a lesser degree with sugar, dairy, and caffeine. Salt for me though is the one thing that really makes the tinnitus rise rapidly if taken in large quantity.

OK.. I want to share something with you guys, I've been doing more reading into the connection between tinnitus <> "flight or fight" <> WHM. As some people have said (including practitioners of Ayurveda), there may be a connection between an overstimulated nervous system and tinnitus. I think this is an area we need to investigate...

Here's some info worth reading that may point to this:

1. This article is about Vagus Nerve Stimulation. The author explains their preferred mode of activating it is through the WHM. This article gives us an intro into the topic itself:
https://www.thestll.com/articles/the-vagus-nerve-explained

2. This article explains the WHM from a scientific point of view (be sure to listen to the audio clip towards the bottom of the page, the interview between Wim Hof and Dr. Rhonda Patrick). Wim speaks about how his breathing method taps into ANS stimulation, specifically the sympathetic:
https://www.thestll.com/articles/wim-hof-method-explained

3. This article speaks about treating tinnitus through stimulation of the vagus nerve (as a way to calm down an overly stimulated nervous system):
https://www.deephouseamsterdam.com/study-shows-positive-results-in-stopping-tinnitus/

4. This article piggy backs on article #3 where they introduce a device that stimulates the vagus nerve to help alleviate tinnitus (note: I am not advocating getting this device, especially since it needs to be surgically inserted! I'm merely referencing this article to show that stimulation of the vagus nerve might be possible to lessen tinnitus):
https://microtransponder.com/en-gb/tinnitus/physicians/how-it-works

And finally... 5. This article speaks about activating the vagus nerve through yoga as a means to get back into the parasympathetic and away from being stuck in flight-or-flight (which may be what we're in due to trauma inflicted on our nervous systems after the breath hold?):
https://yogauonline.com/yoga-anatomy/how-can-we-stimulate-vagus-nerve-our-yoga-practice-part-1

I'm not saying this is the be-all, end-all answer but it's definitely an interesting theory that's work checking into. The more I read about holistic methods of healing from tinnitus, the more I keep reading about balancing one's ANS by getting out of a state of being stuck in sympathetic "fight-or-flight" towards balancing out with the parasympathetic. And this ties in with the WHM itself... except in the reverse order.

Lastly, as for our ears that feel pressure and won't pop, could it just be possible that they aren't popping because the tympanic muscles have been sent into spasm via the overstimulation of the sympathetic nervous system AKA flight-or-fight? I don't know if that's the case, but perhaps worth reading into?

Here's an explanation of it:
https://www.healthline.com/health/eardrum-spasm

...and another article that explains possible ways to remedy it:
https://www.debilitatingdiseases.net/how-to-stop-muscle-spasms-in-ear/

Eardrum spasms also causes tinnitus... hmmm.

With this in mind, here's two possible scenarios now...

Scenario 1: WHM -> ANS stimulation -> sympathetic "fight or flight" overstimulation / shock to the ANS -> eardrum spasm -> tinnitus

Scenario 2: WHM -> ANS stimulation -> sympathetic "fight or flight" overstimulation / shock to the ANS -> tinnitus

In both cases, it seems a reduction in ANS stimulation and getting back into parasympathetic is the way to go. So, from what I'm taking away from all of this is stimulating the vagus nerve to activate the sympathetic nervous system is possible (WHM) as well as stimulating the vagus nerve to activate the parasympathetic nervous system (Micro Transponder device and yoga are proof of that). So if there's a way to get out of this stuck "flight or fight" mode, there's hope.

Anyway, just my theory of course! Wanted to share it with you all. Please let me know your thoughts!

 

[MrC6688]

@Sentenza, welcome to the thread and sorry to hear about your ailments. When I first experienced my tinnitus, it was also accompanied by dizziness. I felt like I was "drunk" a bit and had to hold the railing on my banister to walk down the stairs. That feeling lasted about 3 days and then went away.

So yes, I sort of know what you're going through. Definitely see your doctor and keep us posted. Hope your visit goes well.

 

[Lukee]

Wow @MrC6688, awesome research work. I do like your theory about being stuck in a fight or flight response. It seems like anxiety is normal upon acquiring tinnitus and I don't know about you or the others, but my anxiety is through the roof. I feel like WHM has possibly triggered something that is keeping us in overdrive.

It also makes sense that @Sentenza is saying he's dizzy because it's possible that his blood pressure is still high and body stuck in fight or flight. I think it will calm down after a few days and the dizziness will hopefully go away.
I noticed that my resting heart rate from my watch increased 10 bpm from when I started WHM to when I stopped it. That would indicate a possible increase in blood pressure throughout the entire day. At the very least my heart was beating much faster than normal long after the breath exercises.

While luckily I haven't had the dizziness you both experienced, I have a constant pressure in my whole head. Not overwhelming but slightly uncomfortable like a mild sinus infection.

While I'm intrigued into your research and I feel like you might be onto something, I'm also a little worried that if we have messed up our autonomic nervous system there may not be an easy way to fix it.

Have you been trying yoga @MrC6688? Hoping to hear some results from your Ayurvedic physician.

L

 

[Lukee]

@MrC6688, I'm really starting to think your theory about autonomic nervous system is correct or at least part of the problem. We might be stuck in fight or flight mode which would explain the symptoms we are feeling. Aside from yoga and breathing techniques, there are many chiropractors claiming to be able to reset the ANS and create a parasympathetic response.

This site describes pretty much all of our symptoms including: dizziness, ringing in the ears, anxiety, panic, sleep issues and pressure:

Are You Stuck in Fight or Flight?

I am going to reach out to a few chiropractors and try to find one that deals specifically with treating autonomic nervous system issues.

In the meantime, I am also going to try the breathing in the yoga link you posted. Basically it's a reversed WHM. Very short breath holds and easy breathing, focusing on longer exhalation than inhalation.

Here's to hoping!

L

 

[MrC6688]

While I'm intrigued into your research and I feel like you might be onto something, I'm also a little worried that if we have messed up our autonomic nervous system there may not be an easy way to fix it.

Have you been trying yoga @MrC6688? Hoping to hear some results from your Ayurvedic physician.

L

@Lukee, I'm going to find out more, please stay tuned. Going to email my Ayurvedic healer all of this information and get his take. From the brief text he sent me, he said this falls in line with Ayurvedic theory to a degree, so there may be something here (praying anyway). I emailed the yoga instructor who had written that article, Olga Kabel, and I want to speak with her too. Please let us know what your chiropractors say!

It also makes sense that @Sentenza is saying he's dizzy because it's possible that his blood pressure is still high and body stuck in fight or flight. I think it will calm down after a few days and the dizziness will hopefully go away.
I noticed that my resting heart rate from my watch increased 10 bpm from when I started WHM to when I stopped it. That would indicate a possible increase in blood pressure throughout the entire day. At the very least my heart was beating much faster than normal long after the breath exercises.

Yes. I know when I first experienced the tinnitus in June, my blood pressure spiked from 110 to 145, my heart rate was up, my ears/neck/face were warm as if I had been out in the sun too long, and I was dizzy too. The problem is we're still experiencing tinnitus so are we still possibly stuck in flight-or-fight, are our ear muscles spasming for this long, is our vagus nerve caught in a nasty endless loop of triggering our sympathetic nervous system? That's what we hope to find out. If there's a way to get out of this nightmare, I'm all for listening to as many theories as possible. Since Wim boasts that his breathing method engages the sympathetic nervous system through the vagus there has to be a way to do the complete opposite and get us back to normal.

P.S. I've stayed away from caffeine, white sugar, and salt for the past 2 days and feel it's helping too. So diet is a component also.

 

[Lukee]

Diet was never an issue before so we've obviously changed something or damaged something that is now more sensitive to what we eat.

My heart rate is still 10 beats higher than normal at rest. I haven't checked my blood pressure but I will try to check today and see if it's higher.

I am almost thinking we might need to active sympathetic response again to get out of this loop but that is super scary to me. The tinnitus is not so bad even though it fluctuates, but the pressure is really starting to bother me and it's only been less than a week. Also, another thing to note is that for me, I didn't initially fee the ear pressure. It's started with slight tinnitus then the pressure developed after a couple days.

Another thing I noticed is when I take a deep breath in right at the top of the breath my right ear flutters a little bit. I used to be able to do that sometimes when yawning but never when inhaling.

@MrC6688, did you ever have general pressure in your head or was it only localized to your ears? Also, did you ever have tight neck or shoulders?

L

 

[Csani90]

I am almost thinking we might need to active sympathetic response again to get out of this loop but that is super scary to me.

Do you mean doing WHM again? The technique is about putting yourself under hormonal stress so that your body and mind gets used to it and becomes less reactive to it. So yes this happened to all of us, but maybe because of some reason, be it physical or mental, our nervous system has been triggered by this stress and it is ongoing. But maybe this is because we have stopped the process of getting resistant to this stress. Maybe if we would have continued the practice then the nervous system would have got used to it and cease the danger bells of tinnitus. Maybe... I really loved the positive effects on my mental and physical state during my sort practice and after the ringing started I still felt drawned to it, but I was and still am scared if this can get worse. I would say the tinnitus is not bothering me so much now, of course I would love to hear complete silence, but the random ear fullness and the damn crackling upon swallowing is really annoying.

I guess it is safer to start doing the risk free calming breathing and yoga, but I would be really interested in @Ross Duncan's experience.

Been fascinating reading this thread. I started the breathing method in the last few weeks, but not intensively - normally 3-4 rounds and not pushing it up to my head on the recovery breath. Same experience as pretty much everyone here with the tinnitus in terms of how quickly it has come about. I initially noticed it after the first few times (I've only been practising it for a few weeks and not every day). I think I've noticed a foundation of the tinnitus in the retention breath (out breath) but then the pressure build-up significantly in the recovery breath (in breath and hold). I don't exert any part of the retention or recovery breath, and I too am noticing all the benefits described. Then there is the tinnitus...

I've had tinnitus in the background for many years, mostly due to my misspent youth standing next to big speakers at raves/gigs. I'm fine with it fortunately, but this is clearly more intense and noticeable, and clearly a hang-up of the method. I'm going to continue for now (although I know it possibly sounds daft) as I've been having cold showers for a couple of years and am bought into the method somewhat. I'm curious about the longevity of the tinnitus and to understand the impact over time. Being winter, I've had some sinus problems too but nothing too bad. To me the tinnitus is a direct result of the breathing and being conscious of that now, I aim to regulate what I do potentially to see if it has an impact (e.g. ensure that I don't do it with too much intensity). If it seems to have more of a detrimental impact, I'll have to stop in spite of the benefits its having on my stress levels etc.

Anyway, I was looking up all the stuff you posted, which are really exciting and helpful, so huge thanks for doing the detective work! I looked up which herbs could help with calming the vagus nerve and I found this:

http://veriditashibernica.org/uncategorized/re-establishing-good-vagal-tone-and-balance-with-herbs/

What made me surprised is that list about the symptoms of vagal tone imbalance starts with tinnitus and earache!

 

[MrC6688]

Diet was never an issue before so we've obviously changed something or damaged something that is now more sensitive to what we eat.

My heart rate is still 10 beats higher than normal at rest. I haven't checked my blood pressure but I will try to check today and see if it's higher.

I am almost thinking we might need to active sympathetic response again to get out of this loop but that is super scary to me. The tinnitus is not so bad even though it fluctuates, but the pressure is really starting to bother me and it's only been less than a week. Also, another thing to note is that for me, I didn't initially fee the ear pressure. It's started with slight tinnitus then the pressure developed after a couple days.

Another thing I noticed is when I take a deep breath in right at the top of the breath my right ear flutters a little bit. I used to be able to do that sometimes when yawning but never when inhaling.

@MrC6688, did you ever have general pressure in your head or was it only localized to your ears? Also, did you ever have tight neck or shoulders?

L

Yes, I have tight shoulders, tight neck pain, and this weird muscle tightness that seems to originate in my shoulder/neck region and extends to the back of my head. But that I believe has a lot to do with being on a laptop all day long. I'm literally on mine for 8-9 hours a day due to my work. I'm sure my poor posture doesn't help the tinnitus though and I'm sure this state that we're in isn't helping it either.

As for my work day posture, I'm trying to remedy that. I'm thinking of getting a laptop stand.

I would tell your chiropractor and physician all of this information. I felt pressure almost right away after I did that dreaded breath hold, which led to the tinnitus. Thinking back, I think the pressure was in my head and ears because I remember trying to tie my shoes and it felt like I had a really bad head cold. Even now as I type this, I can feel slight pressure in my ears, just not nearly as bad as it was at the onset. The two constant ailments I'm dealing with are tinnitus and ears that won't pop.

I'm not getting the ear fluttering that you're experiencing. Hmm, not sure what that is.

 

[MrC6688]

Anyway, I was looking up all the stuff you posted, which are really exciting and helpful, so huge thanks for doing the detective work! I looked up which herbs could help with calming the vagus nerve and I found this:

http://veriditashibernica.org/uncategorized/re-establishing-good-vagal-tone-and-balance-with-herbs/

What made me surprised is that list about the symptoms of vagal tone imbalance starts with tinnitus and earache!

I sent this to my Ayurvedic physician for his input. This is awesome.

From the link you just sent us... check it out...

"The symptoms of loss of vagal tone can be many and varied and may range from:

• Earache with no physical cause. Or other symptoms in the ears such as tinnitus - YES
• A sensation of tightness or a lump in the throat and difficulty swallowing
• Neck tension - YES
• A sensation of pressure in the chest
• Tachycardia, palpitations, or skipped beats - YES
• Stuttering
• Sensations of breathlessness
• Tingling and numbness or Raynauds type symptoms in the hands and/or feet
• Epigastric pain, stomach cramps or butterflies in the stomach
• Strange flitting pains in the intestines
• Faintness, dizziness, lightheadedness - YES
• Nausea - YES
• Sensations of being extremely hot or cold accompanied by sweating - YES
• Fuzzy thoughts, a slight inability to form words
• Weakness - MAYBE
• Visual disturbances such as lights seem too bright, fuzzy or tunnel vision or black spots in the vision
• Nervousness
• Shaking
• Frequent urination
• A desire for copious amounts of cold water
• And others too many to mention"

 

[Lukee]

Well I definitely check many of those boxes for vagal tone imbalance. My anxiety spiked today to the point where I was trying to hard just to bring down my heart rate and stop the fluttering in my ear. I was worried it could become permanent.

Do you mean doing WHM again?

Yes I was referring to WHM. I am too scared to do it myself in the event that it gets worse. I couldn't imagine if it was any worse than now and the ear pressure is terrible. But what I'm wondering is if this happens to many people and they don't notice it and it gets better before it has a chance to get worse. This is where I think Wim himself who has trained thousands of people might have some insight.

At this point I think we are on the right track with vagal tone and sympathetic response. The yoga breathing might help but I think it will take some time fix the imbalance. What I can say for sure is my anxiety is higher than ever and it likely because of sympathetic response and the general anxiety associated with the tinnitus and pressure.

As a sidenote a doctor gave me some Omega-3 pills. She said that they are very potent as anti-inflammatory and her patients have used them with great success for chronic inflammation. I have taken them for 2 days and have found a potential drop in ear pressure. I would suggest any time of fish oil could possibly help with the inflammation and tinnitus. Looking forward to hearing back from your Ayurvedic physician.

L

 

[Drachen]

Hey, folks. I hope you don't mind me dropping in for a moment.

I have no connection to Wim Hof breathing, but I've read throughout this entire thread and have found myself fascinated by both your conditions and your conduct. It's truly engrossing, though at the same time, it makes me sad. The tinnitus support community itself is already somewhat niche, but to discover an even further niche group within it just goes to show how far-reaching and pervasive this thing can be.

Everyone participating comes off as both very analytical and creative, and these are traits I wish was present more often in the medical professionals expected to treat this condition. The fact that you all are looking so deeply into your past, present, and futures makes me confident that you will eventually find a solution to your problem. This sort of collaboration is integral to providing a successful, supportive, and mutually beneficial community.

I want to extend my deepest wishes that everyone here is able to find respite and recover, both mentally and physically, from their symptoms.

 

[MrC6688]

Well I definitely check many of those boxes for vagal tone imbalance. My anxiety spiked today to the point where I was trying to hard just to bring down my heart rate and stop the fluttering in my ear. I was worried it could become permanent.

Yes I was referring to WHM. I am too scared to do it myself in the event that it gets worse. I couldn't imagine if it was any worse than now and the ear pressure is terrible. But what I'm wondering is if this happens to many people and they don't notice it and it gets better before it has a chance to get worse. This is where I think Wim himself who has trained thousands of people might have some insight.

At this point I think we are on the right track with vagal tone and sympathetic response. The yoga breathing might help but I think it will take some time fix the imbalance. What I can say for sure is my anxiety is higher than ever and it likely because of sympathetic response and the general anxiety associated with the tinnitus and pressure.

As a sidenote a doctor gave me some Omega-3 pills. She said that they are very potent as anti-inflammatory and her patients have used them with great success for chronic inflammation. I have taken them for 2 days and have found a potential drop in ear pressure. I would suggest any time of fish oil could possibly help with the inflammation and tinnitus. Looking forward to hearing back from your Ayurvedic physician.

L

What brand of Omega-3 pills? Can you share the link if possible? What's going on with your anxiety? Is your heart rate high all the time now? Mine took a few days to come down, I think three days exactly. Just give it time, but also check in with your doctor and tell them what's going on. I felt similarly when I was first stricken with the tinnitus. What made it worse was all the doom and gloom postings I was reading on Reddit, so please avoid those articles.

As an aside, I had sesame balls (glutinous rice balls fills with black sesame powder and sugar) tonight for dessert and my tinnitus is much higher now. So I think there's definitely a causal effect with sugar and tinnitus. At least with me there is. After two days of eating zero sugar, zero caffeine, and zero alcohol my tinnitus was very low today, till now. I'll go back to avoiding sweets and see how low it goes back to.

I think we're on to something here with vagal response. After re-listening to that audio clip of Wim, he says that his practice activates the sympathetic nervous system through vagus nerve stimulation. So, if it can be activated in this way, we should be able to do the reverse and active the parasympathetic nervous system through the vagus as well. I'm going to read all of those yoga links I posted, hope to read them this weekend. If I don't hear from that yoga instructor whom I emailed, the one who wrote the article, I'll try to find another certified yoga instructor and get their take on that article and on activating the parasympathetic via the vagus nerve.

Alright guys, please keep everyone posted on any info you hear from your doctors and chiropractors. Thanks!

 

[MrC6688]

Hey, folks. I hope you don't mind me dropping in for a moment.

I have no connection to Wim Hof breathing, but I've read throughout this entire thread and have found myself fascinated by both your conditions and your conduct. It's truly engrossing, though at the same time, it makes me sad. The tinnitus support community itself is already somewhat niche, but to discover an even further niche group within it just goes to show how far-reaching and pervasive this thing can be.

Everyone participating comes off as both very analytical and creative, and these are traits I wish was present more often in the medical professionals expected to treat this condition. The fact that you all are looking so deeply into your past, present, and futures makes me confident that you will eventually find a solution to your problem. This sort of collaboration is integral to providing a successful, supportive, and mutually beneficial community.

I want to extend my deepest wishes that everyone here is able to find respite and recover, both mentally and physically, from their symptoms.

Welcome and thank you very much for your kind words. Your post was first class all the way! We're all in this together and we're all here for each other. I want all of us to recover from this condition and I hope you're able to fully recover from your ailments as well. Feel free to join us and contribute or stop back in any time!

 

[Drachen]

Welcome and thank you very much for your kind words. Your post was first class all the way! We're all in this together and we're all here for each other. I want all of us to recover from this condition and I hope you're able to fully recover from your ailments as well. Feel free to join us and contribute or stop back in any time!

I greatly appreciate your response here and thank you for the kind words!

I would love to help however I can, though I can't specifically speak to anything that might help in addressing your issues caused by the breathing technique. I do notice that you all are discussing Omega-3 supplements. I would encourage you all to start consuming fish more frequently if you aren't already, particularly tuna and salmon. Both of those are very high in relevant vitamins, as well as these Omega-3 fatty acids. While supplements are great, and typically our only option for high dosage, it appears to be the case that food reigns supreme in terms of taking in nutrients. Of course, I don't discourage you all from taking these, as I am considering doing so myself in addition to all the fish I am trying to consume.

Supplements can already be hit or miss in terms of providing effectiveness, and what's worse is that they typically take a long time to get going in the system. My philosophy is that the earlier you start, the better. Be wary that for many, if not most people, supplements tend to do nothing. There is also the potential some may spike you or cause other problems, though it's hard to gauge for sure how this may apply in everyone's case here since I don't believe the mechanism of damage is yet understood.

I also advise that you all be sure to thoroughly research the brands of the supplements you are seeing to purchase. I don't believe this will be a problem for you all, but it is a point I should mention nonetheless. It is the belief of myself and many others that with supplements you often get what you pay for to an extent, and trying to find organic versions or versions with few additives is often advised.

There's also the case of certain supplements such as Magnesium that come in a variety of forms, all of which are absorbed by the body to different extends and can yield different benefits. For example, what you will find in most drugstores is Magnesium Oxide, which is almost universally derided as worthless due to its poor bioavailability. Conversely, there is Magnesium Glycinate, which I hold to be probably the only supplement besides Melatonin from which I have noticed a benefit. In fact, if any of you are having troubles with sleep or anxiety, I would encourage you to look into Magnesium. It is also believed by some research to have a protective effect on the ears.

If you all are interested in further seeking out anti-inflammatory supplements, others that have been mentioned here to varying degrees of success would involve Turmeric with Curcumin, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Resveratrol, and notably Astaxanthin. Of course, there is always Ginger and Garlic. I highly encourage investigations into each of these for your own purposes.

This post ended up being a lot longer than I had anticipated, so I apologize for the long read. Hopefully I was able to provide some novel information that might be of benefit to you all. As you mentioned, we're in this together and here for each other. That is all we can do as it seems medicine is moving at an indeterminate pace...

 

[Lukee]

What brand of Omega-3 pills?

I didn't want to post brands but the pills are Omega MonoPure by Xymogen. It's one of those "professionals only" companies. I trust my doctor's advice so I'm taking them. With that being said, I took NeutraSea Omega-3 oil for two days before I started the Xymogen pills today and noticed the same result. So I think any Omega-3 fish oil might work.

I agree with being able to activate parasympathetic response through the vagus nerve. I read @Csani90's post about the herbs for rebalancing and it's pretty insightful. I also found a few articles pertaining to vagus nerve stimulation devices. Here is one such site:

https://www.caringmedical.com/can-repair-vagus-nerves/

I am going to reach out to a neurologist and see if it's accepted medical practice or just hocus pocus gimmicks, otherwise it looks promising.

@Drachen, thanks for your kind words. We are figuring that together we are stronger and hopefully we can come to a solution to help a community at large. We are lucky to have found each other and be able to offer insight and support.

Unfortunately, on some other forums it's like hearsay if you even mention any negative implications from WHM, even if you aren't being critical.

Anyway, hopefully we keep on plugging away and we can continue to discover new info.

L