Tinnitus Began First Week of June 2020 After Wim Hof Breathing

[TimNitus]

Hi all. Beware, LOADS of text ahead.

So. I just returned from the appointment with the Osteopath like 5 minutes ago. The last 5 minutes I was lying in the quiet and listening.

First: Today in the morning, I actually noticed that the tinnitus was not very strong, following the scale @Renfrey was using before, last week after the "relapse" it was a 5 (noticeable), today it was a 3 (between noticeable and not noticeable). So I actually did a very loose, chilled WHM exercise, maybe 30% the effort that I did when I got it. Tinnitus went back to 4-5 after the exercise. I know it may be a bit reckless, but I really wanted to have a comparison.

I went to the appointment and I told the osteopath about the idea that WHM might be resulting in the tinnitus and explained to her our idea of the over-excited of the auditory cells. She was interested and VERY helpful, answering all my questions and explaining what she does.

Her response was that I'm not the first patient with tinnitus she was taking care of, though she never heard of WHM before. She was basically using the same techniques with me that she was using with patients who came in with tinnitus being a direct cause of stress (which was also the suspicion in my case in the beginning, but I will address that in a couple of lines).

From here: please note that I'm only trying to reproduce what she told me. As I can't remember every single detail I'm giving it as I remember it. It will clearly be slightly distorted from what she said EXACTLY.

The purpose of these techniques is to work with the blood circulation in the areas of parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems (addressing the areas of the the neck and lower back respectively).

The techniques is of course too complicated to explain within 15 minutes, but basically she not-quite-massages certain areas in the neck, gently pushing at certain points. She can also feel the pulsation of the Liqueur (The nerve-liquid, flowing through our spinal cord and skull), and the speed of this pulsation is depending on how "excited" the nervous system is. Now this is extremely interesting for me. As mentioned in my post before, I hear two tinnitus tones. One is constant and high pitched, the other one is lower and is NOT constant and changes and vibrates. It's like a fridge or a hard drive in a computer, sort of. And I have noticed before that especially this lower tone is changing in its intensity (and its vibration speed) depending on how irritated I was. And when my stress level started to reduce in January, so did the "fridge" start to work in the quieter mode. Now this does not prove anything, but it might be that this tone is direct render or what my nervous system is doing.

Now. She promised to send me the name of a book that addresses the techniques of osteopathy where, she said, we will be able to find more explanation on how osteopathic methods work. I'm not sure if one of us will be able to use this technique directly, as osteopathy is not something one learns in a couple of weeks, yet we might be able to figure out some details that will help us to at least reduce the symptoms and maybe also better understand what happens to us. I will post it here when I get the email from her.

Also she said that what we can do ourselves to reduce "exciting" of the nervous systems is Yoga (Yin yoga helped me a lot actually), meditation, progressive muscle relaxation... these things, you know. @MrC6688, that's probably why caffeine makes it worse for you. Caffeine makes it also worse for me, and so does being hangover (Alcohol creates inflammation and stress to nervous system).
What also helped me a lot was practicing 5.5-breathing (5.5 seconds breathing in and 5.5 seconds breathing out). I stumbled upon this breathing exercise a few times in various literature (also on Joe Rogan's Podcast, James Nestor, author of the book "Breathe" mentions this technique, but with 6 seconds). Then I bought an app called Prana Breath, that allows you to program your own breathing patterns and programmed it. I had the impression that it proactively reduced stress and I also fell asleep much easier with it. I suspect it has exactly the opposite effect on the nervous system as WHM. Give it a try.

Finally, after we talked she did again this whole technique on me. I was listening closely to tinnitus, as it was changing during the practice. It first got slightly stronger and then gradually reduced to barely noticeable. I pushed it in the morning to the level of 4-5 and after I returned home I was lying in my bed with hearing protection on and I actually had to actively listen in to find that low pitched tinnitus tone. The high pitched one reduced as well.

So I'm now very much sure, that we are are on the right track and that practicing yoga, meditation, healthy lifestyle can reduce our complains (even though I'm actually pretty sure that getting rid of it fully will be hard to impossible, I still believe that it is very much possible to find solutions to monitor it and keep the tinnitus at the scale level of 1-2).

Anyway, it turned out that I indeed still have another appointment left. The osteopath said she will also look into the WHM and let me know next time what she thinks about it and its side effects.

I for myself will monitor my tones very carefully and see how they change with stress level changes and if the pulsation of the low tone is linked to it.

What are your ideas?
Shall we write a collective letter to Wim Hof and see if he responds on what he suggests to do as a countermeasure?

P.S.
@MrC6688 if you are actually looking into going to an osteopath, make sure you find someone who treats tinnitus as well. Osteopathy seems to be a veeeeery broad variety of techniques and not all of them will address what you need.

P.P.S.
Oh yes, one thing still remains fully unclear to me and the osteopathy did not seem to help with this one much.
It's the pressure we all experience inside our ears. Even though right after my relapse I went to an ENT and he did not measure any increased pressure, even though I felt it very well and I do now, after I did the light WHM exercise today in the morning.

P.P.P.S.
And one more thing. I don't expect that the change in tinnitus through one session today will permanently repair it. I believe by tonight it will return. It is somewhat a gradual improvement, even though, right after the osteopathy sessions it reduces a lot, but it seems to be iterative, with every session of osteopathy, breathing, meditation or yoga giving a short-lived instant effect but also a small improvement on the large scale.

 

[Renfrey]

I haven't forgot about this thread. I have been reading the updates and see the new members. Welcome! I have a lot to write about but haven't had the time. I've had some ups and downs and some interesting results to report (no total remission or anything like that) but maybe just some additional pieces to the puzzle to add.

I will post an update tomorrow with the different things I have been doing/results as well as additional research and hypotheses.

Stay safe.

L

Hi Lukee! Thanks for hanging around. I really appreciate your contributions. Very informative. I'll be looking forward to your additional info.

 

[Renfrey]

Yea, I would hold off on the Eustachi for now. I had purchased it and tried it a few times also and while it definitely opened up my Eustachian tubes, our problem may have more to do with overly excited auditory nerves and not the actual Eustachian tubes (unless you feel pressure in your ears, then by all means see if it can help you). It's a good device to have if you travel and you experience clogged ears from flying, diving, or hiking in high altitudes so it could come in handy in the future.

Mr. C,

Unfortunately, like most of the other posters here, I also have a small amount of ear pressure going on. It temporarily clears by doing the "yawn" effect.
Thinking back, I think I've had this type of need to clear my ears (minus any pressure) through the "yawn" effect for a long time (years?), even before the WHM. I just never felt like it was an issue before and it seemed normal.

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll use it, but very sparingly and cautiously.

 

[Renfrey]

Hi all. Beware, LOADS of text ahead.

So. I just returned from the appointment with the Osteopath like 5 minutes ago. The last 5 minutes I was lying in the quiet and listening.

First: Today in the morning, I actually noticed that the tinnitus was not very strong, following the scale @Renfrey was using before, last week after the "relapse" it was a 5 (noticeable), today it was a 3 (between noticeable and not noticeable). So I actually did a very loose, chilled WHM exercise, maybe 30% the effort that I did when I got it. Tinnitus went back to 4-5 after the exercise. I know it may be a bit reckless, but I really wanted to have a comparison.

I went to the appointment and I told the osteopath about the idea that WHM might be resulting in the tinnitus and explained to her our idea of the over-excited of the auditory cells. She was interested and VERY helpful, answering all my questions and explaining what she does.

Her response was that I'm not the first patient with tinnitus she was taking care of, though she never heard of WHM before. She was basically using the same techniques with me that she was using with patients who came in with tinnitus being a direct cause of stress (which was also the suspicion in my case in the beginning, but I will address that in a couple of lines).

From here: please note that I'm only trying to reproduce what she told me. As I can't remember every single detail I'm giving it as I remember it. It will clearly be slightly distorted from what she said EXACTLY.

The purpose of these techniques is to work with the blood circulation in the areas of parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems (addressing the areas of the the neck and lower back respectively).

The techniques is of course too complicated to explain within 15 minutes, but basically she not-quite-massages certain areas in the neck, gently pushing at certain points. She can also feel the pulsation of the Liqueur (The nerve-liquid, flowing through our spinal cord and skull), and the speed of this pulsation is depending on how "excited" the nervous system is. Now this is extremely interesting for me. As mentioned in my post before, I hear two tinnitus tones. One is constant and high pitched, the other one is lower and is NOT constant and changes and vibrates. It's like a fridge or a hard drive in a computer, sort of. And I have noticed before that especially this lower tone is changing in its intensity (and its vibration speed) depending on how irritated I was. And when my stress level started to reduce in January, so did the "fridge" start to work in the quieter mode. Now this does not prove anything, but it might be that this tone is direct render or what my nervous system is doing.

Now. She promised to send me the name of a book that addresses the techniques of osteopathy where, she said, we will be able to find more explanation on how osteopathic methods work. I'm not sure if one of us will be able to use this technique directly, as osteopathy is not something one learns in a couple of weeks, yet we might be able to figure out some details that will help us to at least reduce the symptoms and maybe also better understand what happens to us. I will post it here when I get the email from her.

Also she said that what we can do ourselves to reduce "exciting" of the nervous systems is Yoga (Yin yoga helped me a lot actually), meditation, progressive muscle relaxation... these things, you know. @MrC6688, that's probably why caffeine makes it worse for you. Caffeine makes it also worse for me, and so does being hangover (Alcohol creates inflammation and stress to nervous system).
What also helped me a lot was practicing 5.5-breathing (5.5 seconds breathing in and 5.5 seconds breathing out). I stumbled upon this breathing exercise a few times in various literature (also on Joe Rogan's Podcast, James Nestor, author of the book "Breathe" mentions this technique, but with 6 seconds). Then I bought an app called Prana Breath, that allows you to program your own breathing patterns and programmed it. I had the impression that it proactively reduced stress and I also fell asleep much easier with it. I suspect it has exactly the opposite effect on the nervous system as WHM. Give it a try.

Finally, after we talked she did again this whole technique on me. I was listening closely to tinnitus, as it was changing during the practice. It first got slightly stronger and then gradually reduced to barely noticeable. I pushed it in the morning to the level of 4-5 and after I returned home I was lying in my bed with hearing protection on and I actually had to actively listen in to find that low pitched tinnitus tone. The high pitched one reduced as well.

So I'm now very much sure, that we are are on the right track and that practicing yoga, meditation, healthy lifestyle can reduce our complains (even though I'm actually pretty sure that getting rid of it fully will be hard to impossible, I still believe that it is very much possible to find solutions to monitor it and keep the tinnitus at the scale level of 1-2).

Anyway, it turned out that I indeed still have another appointment left. The osteopath said she will also look into the WHM and let me know next time what she thinks about it and its side effects.

I for myself will monitor my tones very carefully and see how they change with stress level changes and if the pulsation of the low tone is linked to it.

What are your ideas?
Shall we write a collective letter to Wim Hof and see if he responds on what he suggests to do as a countermeasure?

P.S.
@MrC6688 if you are actually looking into going to an osteopath, make sure you find someone who treats tinnitus as well. Osteopathy seems to be a veeeeery broad variety of techniques and not all of them will address what you need.

P.P.S.
Oh yes, one thing still remains fully unclear to me and the osteopathy did not seem to help with this one much.
It's the pressure we all experience inside our ears. Even though right after my relapse I went to an ENT and he did not measure any increased pressure, even though I felt it very well and I do now, after I did the light WHM exercise today in the morning.

P.P.P.S.
And one more thing. I don't expect that the change in tinnitus through one session today will permanently repair it. I believe by tonight it will return. It is somewhat a gradual improvement, even though, right after the osteopathy sessions it reduces a lot, but it seems to be iterative, with every session of osteopathy, breathing, meditation or yoga giving a short-lived instant effect but also a small improvement on the large scale.

Hi Tim,

Your osteopath's therapy sounds in essence like a type of massage/pressure. I'm thinking that similar results can be achieved through basic massage, deep tissue massage, stretching, neck exercising, and yoga type movements. Of course including all the other natural treatments that we've been talking about.

What do you think?

 

[TimNitus]

Your osteopath's therapy sounds in essence like a type of massage/pressure. I'm thinking that similar results can be achieved through basic massage, deep tissue massage, stretching, neck exercising, and yoga type movements. Of course including all the other natural treatments that we've been talking about.

What do you think?

Certainly, that's what she said and that's also what I experienced doing Yoga, PMR, Meditation, etc. Anything that has a deep relaxing effect.

I'm uncertain about the typical massages though. Massage can be relaxing, but can also be stimulating. The more movement and speed - the more stimulating effect. I was also visiting physiotherapy in December and January and the physiotherapist was massaging my neck a lot, but he was working quite fast and although it helped with the tension, it did not improve the tinnitus at all. Whereas what the osteopath is doing is as good as no movement, it's more like pressure to specific areas and it does help a lot.

 

[MrC6688]

Hi all. Beware, LOADS of text ahead.

So. I just returned from the appointment with the Osteopath like 5 minutes ago. The last 5 minutes I was lying in the quiet and listening.

First: Today in the morning, I actually noticed that the tinnitus was not very strong, following the scale @Renfrey was using before, last week after the "relapse" it was a 5 (noticeable), today it was a 3 (between noticeable and not noticeable). So I actually did a very loose, chilled WHM exercise, maybe 30% the effort that I did when I got it. Tinnitus went back to 4-5 after the exercise. I know it may be a bit reckless, but I really wanted to have a comparison.

I went to the appointment and I told the osteopath about the idea that WHM might be resulting in the tinnitus and explained to her our idea of the over-excited of the auditory cells. She was interested and VERY helpful, answering all my questions and explaining what she does.

Her response was that I'm not the first patient with tinnitus she was taking care of, though she never heard of WHM before. She was basically using the same techniques with me that she was using with patients who came in with tinnitus being a direct cause of stress (which was also the suspicion in my case in the beginning, but I will address that in a couple of lines).

From here: please note that I'm only trying to reproduce what she told me. As I can't remember every single detail I'm giving it as I remember it. It will clearly be slightly distorted from what she said EXACTLY.

The purpose of these techniques is to work with the blood circulation in the areas of parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems (addressing the areas of the the neck and lower back respectively).

The techniques is of course too complicated to explain within 15 minutes, but basically she not-quite-massages certain areas in the neck, gently pushing at certain points. She can also feel the pulsation of the Liqueur (The nerve-liquid, flowing through our spinal cord and skull), and the speed of this pulsation is depending on how "excited" the nervous system is. Now this is extremely interesting for me. As mentioned in my post before, I hear two tinnitus tones. One is constant and high pitched, the other one is lower and is NOT constant and changes and vibrates. It's like a fridge or a hard drive in a computer, sort of. And I have noticed before that especially this lower tone is changing in its intensity (and its vibration speed) depending on how irritated I was. And when my stress level started to reduce in January, so did the "fridge" start to work in the quieter mode. Now this does not prove anything, but it might be that this tone is direct render or what my nervous system is doing.

Now. She promised to send me the name of a book that addresses the techniques of osteopathy where, she said, we will be able to find more explanation on how osteopathic methods work. I'm not sure if one of us will be able to use this technique directly, as osteopathy is not something one learns in a couple of weeks, yet we might be able to figure out some details that will help us to at least reduce the symptoms and maybe also better understand what happens to us. I will post it here when I get the email from her.

Also she said that what we can do ourselves to reduce "exciting" of the nervous systems is Yoga (Yin yoga helped me a lot actually), meditation, progressive muscle relaxation... these things, you know. @MrC6688, that's probably why caffeine makes it worse for you. Caffeine makes it also worse for me, and so does being hangover (Alcohol creates inflammation and stress to nervous system).
What also helped me a lot was practicing 5.5-breathing (5.5 seconds breathing in and 5.5 seconds breathing out). I stumbled upon this breathing exercise a few times in various literature (also on Joe Rogan's Podcast, James Nestor, author of the book "Breathe" mentions this technique, but with 6 seconds). Then I bought an app called Prana Breath, that allows you to program your own breathing patterns and programmed it. I had the impression that it proactively reduced stress and I also fell asleep much easier with it. I suspect it has exactly the opposite effect on the nervous system as WHM. Give it a try.

Finally, after we talked she did again this whole technique on me. I was listening closely to tinnitus, as it was changing during the practice. It first got slightly stronger and then gradually reduced to barely noticeable. I pushed it in the morning to the level of 4-5 and after I returned home I was lying in my bed with hearing protection on and I actually had to actively listen in to find that low pitched tinnitus tone. The high pitched one reduced as well.

So I'm now very much sure, that we are are on the right track and that practicing yoga, meditation, healthy lifestyle can reduce our complains (even though I'm actually pretty sure that getting rid of it fully will be hard to impossible, I still believe that it is very much possible to find solutions to monitor it and keep the tinnitus at the scale level of 1-2).

Anyway, it turned out that I indeed still have another appointment left. The osteopath said she will also look into the WHM and let me know next time what she thinks about it and its side effects.

I for myself will monitor my tones very carefully and see how they change with stress level changes and if the pulsation of the low tone is linked to it.

What are your ideas?
Shall we write a collective letter to Wim Hof and see if he responds on what he suggests to do as a countermeasure?

P.S.
@MrC6688 if you are actually looking into going to an osteopath, make sure you find someone who treats tinnitus as well. Osteopathy seems to be a veeeeery broad variety of techniques and not all of them will address what you need.

P.P.S.
Oh yes, one thing still remains fully unclear to me and the osteopathy did not seem to help with this one much.
It's the pressure we all experience inside our ears. Even though right after my relapse I went to an ENT and he did not measure any increased pressure, even though I felt it very well and I do now, after I did the light WHM exercise today in the morning.

P.P.P.S.
And one more thing. I don't expect that the change in tinnitus through one session today will permanently repair it. I believe by tonight it will return. It is somewhat a gradual improvement, even though, right after the osteopathy sessions it reduces a lot, but it seems to be iterative, with every session of osteopathy, breathing, meditation or yoga giving a short-lived instant effect but also a small improvement on the large scale.

Please send your osteopath this link:

https://www.thestll.com/articles/wim-hof-method-explained

And tell her to please listen to the audio file towards the bottom of the article. It's an interview with Wim Hof and Dr. Rhonda Patrick where he explains how his breathing method affects the nervous system through sympathetic stimulation via the vague nerve. If she listens to that perhaps she can come up with a way to reverse it?

 

[Renfrey]

Certainly, that's what she said and that's also what I experienced doing Yoga, PMR, Meditation, etc. Anything that has a deep relaxing effect.

I'm uncertain about the typical massages though. Massage can be relaxing, but can also be stimulating. The more movement and speed - the more stimulating effect. I was also visiting physiotherapy in December and January and the physiotherapist was massaging my neck a lot, but he was working quite fast and although it helped with the tension, it did not improve the tinnitus at all. Whereas what the osteopath is doing is as good as no movement, it's more like pressure to specific areas and it does help a lot.

Interesting. So slow pressure rather than faster movements.

On that same theme, here are some acupressure guides that may be of interest:

1. https://www.tcmsimple.com/acupressure_tinnitus.php
2. https://acupressure.com/tinnitus-acupressure-points-for-ringing-in-the-ear/

 

[Lukee]

Ok so I'm going to break this up into a couple replies so we can have a healthy discussion that is at least organized. We are talking about many different things that all pertain to the same symptoms (tinnitus and ear fullness/pressure) but the root cause(s) might be multi factorial.

I will start with an update of my experience and symptoms, but first a brief background on some other conditions I have. The reason being is finding a common element amongst sufferers.

In 2020 I was diagnosed with fairly mild refractory or chronic asthma. It happened because I was having shortness of breath (SOB) back in March 2020 and again in October 2020. It was initially dismissed as anxiety and linked to my asthma but over the last 11 months I am pretty sure now that it is LPR (silent reflux). My next post will explain why that is relevant.

Over the last couple weeks my tinnitus has been up and down but the last week was really good where most days, even in complete silence, it was almost unnoticeable. I would say 1-2/10. The odd peak at 3-4 for reasons I'm still trying to figure out. Alcohol did not peak for me (though I'm rarely drinking) and I haven't had caffeine since well before I got my tinnitus from WHM. My ear fullness has been come and go. Some days it's worse than others but I feel like it is generally getting better. The fullness and pressure actually bothers me more than the tinnitus. I have head pressure as well that has onset at the same time so it's related but I don't know exactly how. It feels like a sinus infection a lot of the time but my sinuses are clear.

I am using the ear popper 2-3 times daily, steroid nasal spray twice daily and my supplement regimen (listed in previous post) most days. On Saturday, I decided to take a Sudafed to see if it would relieve pressure in my ears and head and it did. It worked pretty well and lasted for the whole day but something strange happened. About an hour after I took the Sudafed in the morning I took a shower (hot). I had just sprayed the steroid spray and was continue to milk it into my eustachian tubes by doing Valsalva in the shower (unlike Mr. C, I am able to pop my ears slowly but it only gives a very temporary relief from the fullness). At one point I did a slow, long Valsalva, very gentle and did not exert enough pressure. I that point I got dizzy and almost blacked out and had to sit down quickly in the shower. After taking 20-30 seconds on the floor, I felt relatively normal and enemy on with my day. I checked my BP once out of the shower and to my surprise, it was actually low, like 96/65 (I'm usually 110-120/70-75). I thought that was really weird because I though pseudoephedrine spikes BP.

A few hours later, at my computer screen, I noticed two black string floaters. One in each eye. I freaked out about them for 10 minutes but basically once I got up and moved around they were gone and the rest of my day was pretty normal. Tinnitus was low and pressure in head and ears was pretty much non existent.

On Sunday, I had a small spike in tinnitus and the fullness came back a bit. Maybe like 3/10 for tinnitus but in general pretty uneventful. I started walking Saturday night (in -20C weather lol) and have been doing so the last 5 nights for about an hour each night.

On Monday, I bought some nasal decongestant to try some form of @engineerLA's ETD treatment. I basically tried to milk the decongestant into my eustachian tubes by doing Valsalva maneuver. My tinnitus was low pretty much all day and I only tried the nasal spray in the evening before my walk BUT I did try something new that seemed to work exceptionally well: alternate nostril breathing (actually really just one nostril but I'll explain).

I read this article: https://patient.info/forums/discuss/my-ear-sorted--24158

The OP basically uses a breathing technique where you inhale and exhale from opposite nostrils. Now between this technique and I guess the decongestant which I took minutes before, my symptoms all disappeared. Head and ear pressure gone and tinnitus was so low I had to really concentrate to notice it. This obviously falls in line with the whole ANS theory as the type of breathing (left nostril in and right nostril out) is supposed to invoke a parasympathetic response. What I was most surprised about what is the complete relief of ear pressure. I hadn't had this type of relief since the onset and I also felt like something was draining down my the back of my throat. Was it sinuses or eustachian tubes emptying out? I don't know but it could've been either or.

On Tuesday the pressure was still minimal and my tinnitus came back to baseline about 2/10. I felt pretty normal. I was in good spirits and feeling well. Then after my walk at about 10pm when I got home, I walked into the house and all I could heard was a loud tinnitus. Now about 3-4/10. I went to bed with it and woke up with it this morning. It has been constant all day and the loudest it's been since onset. Pressure was fairly mild today but still bothersome so it might be getting better.

I noticed that while walking my neck started to stiffen up. Not unusual for me but I feel like it might be connected to the increased tinnitus. Also, I now notice I can modulate the tinnitus by fully opening my mouth. I can't really say if it gets louder or changes tone, it's like eeeeeEEEEEEeeeeEEEEeee when I open all the way up.

As a side note, my SOB has returned over the last couple of days. It's not severe but every so often I'm having to take a big breath and catch up. I'm not sure if it the walks in the extreme cold aggravating my asthma, if it's the steroid spray and Sudafed and decongestant or if it's the LPR acting up but I'm wondering if the increase in tinnitus is related. Also thinking the walks might have something to do with it as well, maybe through increase of ANS or neck and shoulder stiffness.

With all the being said, I will post a bit about my theories after my walk. Feel free to ask any questions.

P.S. @JONabes what nasal drops did you use? And like you, my ear fullness came on about 5 days after my tinnitus developed so I have some hope we can resolve.

 

[Lukee]

Back from my walk.

Tinnitus seems to have spiked like it did last night. A little higher than it was during the day. Probably 4/10. Something about the walk is aggravating the tinnitus. Is it the increase in heart rate? Is it strain on neck and shoulders? I'm keeping an open mind to see what might be causing it to spike but on the bright side pressure is slightly down right now.

I'll make a post tomorrow to discuss some other theories.

 

[TimNitus]

Tinnitus seems to have spiked like it did last night. A little higher than it was during the day. Probably 4/10. Something about the walk is aggravating the tinnitus. Is it the increase in heart rate? Is it strain on neck and shoulders? I'm keeping an open mind to see what might be causing it to spike but on the bright side pressure is slightly down right now.

Hi Lukee, I had tensions and strains in neck and shoulders in December/January and I'm pretty sure tinnitus was increasing on days when the tensions were especially nasty.
In my case the tensions seem to be linked to stress. Could it be that you are going through a stressful phase? Or maybe the whole thing with tinnitus increases your stress levels leading to a loop?

 

[TimNitus]

On that same theme, here are some acupressure guides that may be of interest:

This one. I´m pretty sure she was working with these points, among others though. I will try to dig up that book she was talking about. Maybe we can find more info on the points there.

 

[Lukee]

Hey @TimNitus, like many others here, I have had chronic neck/shoulder tightness for a long time. Stress definitely peaked after I got tinnitus from WHM. I barely slept that week and my anxiety was through the roof. For about 2-3 weeks now I have felt much better about it and my stress has been much more under control. The correlation of tinnitus to my stress doesn't particularly make sense this time because like I mentioned, it was about a 1/10 and the only thing that changed was my walks at night. So I'm thinking it has to do with neck tension or stimulation of the sympathetic nervous response maybe through walking. Ironically, my tinnitus was much better before I started exercising.

I forgot to mention but on Thursday night (last Thursday) I got a massage. I asked my RMT to focus on my neck and upper back and told her about the ringing and fullness in the ears. She's not particularly versed in treating tinnitus or anything like that but she said she has clients with the same issue. She proceeded to do two things that I noticed different from any other time and are on par with @TimNitus's point. She did some acupressure at the base of my skull, exactly where your diagram shows. She moved along the base left to right and back, just holding the pressure there for a few moments. It felt really good and seemed to have a good effect. She also stuck her fingers in my ears and basically massaged the inside of my ears aggressively. She also used my ear canals to perform a traction type of pull on my head. Initially I felt she was being too aggressive, it didn't hurt but I was worried it would cause a spike or damage but by the end of the massage and into the next day I felt pretty good like it might've helped.

I have a couple ENT appointments and a head and neck MRI booked (coincidentally for neck strain and numbness in my arms sometimes after waking). I am also seeking the care of an osteopath but haven't been to see him yet. I will continue with the massages after my MRI (which is tonight) and see if hopefully they give a little bit of relief to the tinnitus and pressure.

My pressure feeling is much better today but tinnitus is spiked a bit. Very weird.

 

[TimNitus]

I have a couple ENT appointments and a head and neck MRI booked (coincidentally for neck strain and numbness in my arms sometimes after waking). I am also seeking the care of an osteopath but haven't been to see him yet. I will continue with the massages after my MRI (which is tonight) and see if hopefully they give a little bit of relief to the tinnitus and pressure.

I had also slight numbness in arms and shoulders when the tensions were at their peak.

Now I´m a bit confused. So you think that the WHM initiated the tensions in the back and neck?

Because your description of the tensions is very similar to symptoms that I experienced but I believe that the tensions and stress were before the WHM exercise in my case. I can´t reconstruct the exact timeline though. :/

 

[Lukee]

So you think that the WHM initiated the tensions in the back and neck?

No, WHM in my case did not initiate the tightness. I've had it for many years. I was just mentioning it as a point of an underlying condition. It seems that many of the people who have developed tinnitus from WHM have tight neck and shoulders, degenerative disks (like me) or other general neck issues. I'm not certain yet that it is a direct correlation as an underlying condition since neck and shoulder issues are very common today because of laptops and phones etc., but it's certainly something we should keep an open mind about.

I was going to write it in my next post but since we are on the topic, I found a very interesting article that I will have to dig up to share. The gist of the article is that there have been many patients who wake up from surgery with tinnitus because the anesthesia relaxes the muscles so much that the neck ends up in a position where it compromises a nerve or something like that. My thought was, if you have some sort of underlying neck issue, and you do WHM, and by the end you are so relaxed that you cause your muscles in your neck to shift or impinge on a nerve, could you cause tinnitus that way?

It's one of my several theories on how we got here and I'm starting to think about it more and more because I find I can change my tinnitus ever so slightly by moving my jaw and/or general neck position. I'd like to hear what everyone else is experiencing and see if this could possibly fit the bill.

 

[Renfrey]

No, WHM in my case did not initiate the tightness. I've had it for many years. I was just mentioning it as a point of an underlying condition. It seems that many of the people who have developed tinnitus from WHM have tight neck and shoulders, degenerative disks (like me) or other general neck issues. I'm not certain yet that it is a direct correlation as an underlying condition since neck and shoulder issues are very common today because of laptops and phones etc., but it's certainly something we should keep an open mind about.

I was going to write it in my next post but since we are on the topic, I found a very interesting article that I will have to dig up to share. The gist of the article is that there have been many patients who wake up from surgery with tinnitus because the anesthesia relaxes the muscles so much that the neck ends up in a position where it compromises a nerve or something like that. My thought was, if you have some sort of underlying neck issue, and you do WHM, and by the end you are so relaxed that you cause your muscles in your neck to shift or impinge on a nerve, could you cause tinnitus that way?

It's one of my several theories on how we got here and I'm starting to think about it more and more because I find I can change my tinnitus ever so slightly by moving my jaw and/or general neck position. I'd like to hear what everyone else is experiencing and see if this could possibly fit the bill.

I can't say that I have any neck, shoulder, or disk issues. I tend to think my neck, shoulders, traps, disks etc. are rather strong and healthy. So I might be the odd man out in regards to that particular theory.

I've done strength training (weightlifting) for years, including neck work, which I've recently put much more emphasis on. It might be too soon to tell, but I think I'm feeling a marked improvement immediately following these neck sessions (morning and night). I've been using resistance bands in different ways and angles to work and stretch the neck. I'm also doing a pressure type of massage on those points around the head at this time as well.

So hopefully this, added to all the other things I'm trying, will positively affect the healing process.

 

[Renfrey]

Back from my walk.

Tinnitus seems to have spiked like it did last night. A little higher than it was during the day. Probably 4/10. Something about the walk is aggravating the tinnitus. Is it the increase in heart rate? Is it strain on neck and shoulders? I'm keeping an open mind to see what might be causing it to spike but on the bright side pressure is slightly down right now.

I'll make a post tomorrow to discuss some other theories.

It's hard to imagine that any type of walking or cardio would aggravate tinnitus. I would think that blood, oxygen, and nutrients flowing swiftly through the body would only be beneficial to tinnitus.

One way I look at physical exercise, besides all the benefits that come from it, is that after a hard session you sleep much better. That's one of the major draws for me. Anything for good sleep. And you get that "runner's high" - endorphins etc. I like the very basic principle of: the more physical work we do, the more relaxed and content we are afterwards.

 

[Lukee]

It's hard to imagine that any type of walking or cardio would aggravate tinnitus. I would think that blood, oxygen, and nutrients flowing swiftly through the body would only be beneficial to tinnitus.

Well I have two ways of looking at it:

1) my tight neck and shoulders might have been aggravated by the walking (which I know they were) and therefore increased the tinnitus.

2) if we are onto the ANS/sympathetic response theory, then any type of activity that increases blood flow or heart rate or anything to do with the ANS might change the behavior of our tinnitus.

 

[JONabes]

Hi Lukee, here's the NHS page for the corticosteroid nose spray I'm using: https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/betamethasone-eyes-ears-and-nose/

Took it early in the ETD bout (after about a week of noticing just the tinnitus but before the ear pressure had started) but if anything it seemed to make it worse. Think I may have had a nascent infection that the steroids made worse. Waited another week after that course ended (a full 3 weeks into the tinnitus, 2 weeks into the pressure) and it's really really helping a lot this time. Pressure went immediately and tinnitus is following suit.

I remember this was exactly the same pattern as last time (which fully recovered with no relapse for 3 yrs).

My thinking is it must be the ETD causing the tinnitus, not the other way around! I think that period where we can hear the tinnitus but not feel the pressure are just the early stages perhaps, when the eustachian inflammation is beginning. it's the same when the bout of ETD is ending, the tinnitus goes away gradually after the pressure. In my experience anyway!

One other note - when I have the pressure feeling I have an additional tone/pitch at about 5k or so that sounds like an oscillating whine. When the ear pressure is gone it's the much more familiar 10k+ 'air' type noise. good luck with your treatments Luke, remember ETD can last for weeks or even months but it's not permanent and can be resolved using many methods. Sucks though.

P.S. I FORGOT TO MENTION THE HYPERACUSIS! Has anyone else experienced that along with the ear pressure? Normal volume sounds start to sound very loud and hurt the ear and wildly aggravate the symptoms.

 

[Lukee]

Thanks for your reply @JONabes! I am on Mometasone steroid spray right now (I started taking it a couple weeks ago after I found a thread about ETD where it helped). It seems to be helping as my pressure symptoms are slowly getting better. I have my fingers crossed that within another couple of weeks I'll have a full resolution.

As I previously posted, my tinnitus doesn't seem to be getting much better and at times worse, but it's mostly bearable at these levels. I think I have a very high pitch wine at about 16 kHz. I've tried to measure it and that's about the closest thing to it. Sometimes it changes but most often it's a super high pitch wine/hiss almost that basically sound like a TV humming when it's on mute in a quiet room.

My thinking is it must be the ETD causing the tinnitus, not the other way around!

I'm not entirely opposed to this idea and I was thinking along the same lines since many of the people with noticeable tinnitus from WHM have developed some ear pressure. The only thing that doesn't fit this theory is the many people who don't develop pressure and only complain of the tinnitus. Is it possible they have such mild pressure or their ETs are still inflamed and causing the tinnitus but no other symptoms? I guess it's possible. A link that I posted earlier on was from another thread where the OP's symptoms resolved after taking Mometasone to treat ETD so anything is possible (though his was not related to WHM). I'm also thinking that we still could be dealing with two separate issues: ETD and tinnitus that his being caused by ANS like many have speculated. This would also seem to explain which you have 2 tones when you feel the pressure. One tone might be related to the ETD and the second might be the ANS issue.

P.S. I FORGOT TO MENTION THE HYPERACUSIS! Has anyone else experienced that along with the ear pressure? Normal volume sounds start to sound very loud and hurt the ear and wildly aggravate the symptoms.

In terms of the hyperacusis, it's funny you mention that.

@MrC6688 mentioned his ears were sensitive, almost like WHM had activated increased hearing perception (which is logical with sympathetic response) that has made us more susceptible to noises. Though much better now, in the first two weeks after my tinnitus started, I noticed that louder sounds that were once normal for me were making me jump. I work around some machines in a factory and the beeps and noises that typically I would just ignore were definitely catching my attention. They weren't "painful" like I read about other hyperacusis sufferers but definitely much more "alerting". I'm much better now though.

On a similar note, I went for my MRI last night. Even though our tinnitus is not noise induced, I have been taking care not to particularly put myself in a position where tinnitus could be induced or aggravated. So I wore foam plugs and ear muffs during my test. One weird thing was that during the test, my tinnitus was completely gone. Zero. I couldn't hear it at all even though at many moments I had complete silence and with ear plugs and muffs on. Once I got out of the machine and walking to my car, I still couldn't hear it. Hospital was quiet and I tried my best to listen but it was completely gone. I went for a walk after my test and about 45 minutes into my walk, I got a sudden spike that seemed to remain until bed and still into this morning. Still not sure why the walks are spiking the tinnitus but the pressure is slowly improving and I'm feeling better overall so I'm continuing.

 

[gillyflower]

I'm glad to have found this thread, as it's confirmed my worst fears; and there are some very thoughtful and helpful commenters. But I'm also devastated to learn that this persistent 'eee' is indeed tinnitus, induced by using the Wim Hof method.

We first tried Wim Hof's breathing technique after watching an interview with him and Russell Brand. I trusted the brand, as it were, and my partner and I have been using it every morning for about two months.

A few weeks ago I noticed ringing in my ears. The builders next door have been playing loud music, and as I'm noise-sensitive I played meditation music through ear buds for the first time. I wondered whether this had been too loud, leading to the ringing.

But then I noticed it was worse every morning, just after doing Wim Hof. I kept meaning to do some research, and kept forgetting - until today. My intuitive sense is that it's caused by the holding of the in-breath, but I'm not sure about that.

My hearing has always been good; I can hear high frequency sounds when others can't. But my father's hearing deteriorated before his death, and his father used an ear trumpet (!) so I've always half-expected hearing problems. I'm not sure whether this damage is temporary or not - or whether it's even damage.

Although I was enjoying it, I'm stopping the breathing technique from today; there are plenty of other ways to achieve deep relaxation. My partner is doing it in the hope it'll make him more cold-resistant, but I'm not sure anything's changed. He hasn't noticed any change in his ears.

My sympathy to those who suffer a worse version of this. I can manage to tune it out, but can imagine how I could so easily get hooked into it and become obsessed.

I'm hoping this will go away with time... if it does, I'll report back here.

 

[Renfrey]

Well I have two ways of looking at it:

1) my tight neck and shoulders might have been aggravated by the walking (which I know they were) and therefore increased the tinnitus.

2) if we are onto the ANS/sympathetic response theory, then any type of activity that increases blood flow or heart rate or anything to do with the ANS might change the behavior of our tinnitus.

Roger that. I appreciate hearing your point of view.

 

[Renfrey]

Thanks for your reply @JONabes! I am on Mometasone steroid spray right now (I started taking it a couple weeks ago after I found a thread about ETD where it helped). It seems to be helping as my pressure symptoms are slowly getting better. I have my fingers crossed that within another couple of weeks I'll have a full resolution.

Lukee,

Just curious about your Mometasone regimen. Are you on a 4 week course? Do these nasal steroids feel similar to oral steroids in terms of side effects?

Do you feel any type of dependency while taking them? The reason I ask that is because I've had a long history with nasal spray dependency, to where I've needed it daily to repel the "rebound effect" of the spray. A vicious cycle. Thanks be to God that I was able to ween myself off of them finally about 2 years ago.

 

[JONabes]

@Lukee Fantastic news about your spell without the ringing - also I completely recognise 100% of what you describe about the noises being more startling, almost as if they appear closer than they are.

I anticipate your spells without the ringing becoming longer and more frequent and eventually constant - I'm pretty sure that's how my last bout of ETD ended and this current bout is following the same pattern for me - a cycle of progression and regression but an overall trend towards healing - although I'm a way behind you in the cycle, ive only just had my first few days without the constant pressure! Anyway, good luck!

Thanks for your reply @JONabes! I am on Mometasone steroid spray right now (I started taking it a couple weeks ago after I found a thread about ETD where it helped). It seems to be helping as my pressure symptoms are slowly getting better. I have my fingers crossed that within another couple of weeks I'll have a full resolution.

As I previously posted, my tinnitus doesn't seem to be getting much better and at times worse, but it's mostly bearable at these levels. I think I have a very high pitch wine at about 16 kHz. I've tried to measure it and that's about the closest thing to it. Sometimes it changes but most often it's a super high pitch wine/hiss almost that basically sound like a TV humming when it's on mute in a quiet room.

I'm not entirely opposed to this idea and I was thinking along the same lines since many of the people with noticeable tinnitus from WHM have developed some ear pressure. The only thing that doesn't fit this theory is the many people who don't develop pressure and only complain of the tinnitus. Is it possible they have such mild pressure or their ETs are still inflamed and causing the tinnitus but no other symptoms? I guess it's possible. A link that I posted earlier on was from another thread where the OP's symptoms resolved after taking Mometasone to treat ETD so anything is possible (though his was not related to WHM). I'm also thinking that we still could be dealing with two separate issues: ETD and tinnitus that his being caused by ANS like many have speculated. This would also seem to explain which you have 2 tones when you feel the pressure. One tone might be related to the ETD and the second might be the ANS issue.

In terms of the hyperacusis, it's funny you mention that.

@MrC6688 mentioned his ears were sensitive, almost like WHM had activated increased hearing perception (which is logical with sympathetic response) that has made us more susceptible to noises. Though much better now, in the first two weeks after my tinnitus started, I noticed that louder sounds that were once normal for me were making me jump. I work around some machines in a factory and the beeps and noises that typically I would just ignore were definitely catching my attention. They weren't "painful" like I read about other hyperacusis sufferers but definitely much more "alerting". I'm much better now though.

On a similar note, I went for my MRI last night. Even though our tinnitus is not noise induced, I have been taking care not to particularly put myself in a position where tinnitus could be induced or aggravated. So I wore foam plugs and ear muffs during my test. One weird thing was that during the test, my tinnitus was completely gone. Zero. I couldn't hear it at all even though at many moments I had complete silence and with ear plugs and muffs on. Once I got out of the machine and walking to my car, I still couldn't hear it. Hospital was quiet and I tried my best to listen but it was completely gone. I went for a walk after my test and about 45 minutes into my walk, I got a sudden spike that seemed to remain until bed and still into this morning. Still not sure why the walks are spiking the tinnitus but the pressure is slowly improving and I'm feeling better overall so I'm continuing.

 

[Lukee]

Hi @Renfrey, I am taking the Mometasone of my own accord and not from a doctor's prescription. I had some left over from a sinus infection a year ago and I decided to take it on my own; however, I did speak to an ENT today and he told me it was likely the best nasal steroid for ETD and it is very safe in the long term. I was planning to continue it for as long as the ear fullness persists (hopefully only a couple weeks more) but have seen some reports in these forums of people needing 2-3 months of it to resolve their ETD.

Nasal steroids generally will not cause severe side effects. They are not like oral steroids in that sense since the dosage is very small and localized. There isn't much chance of dependency or rebound effect like decongestants. It's a completely different mechanism. Actually my ENT recommended to continue take it for the next couple months, until resolution. He also said if I had good results with Sudafed or a nasal decongestant I could take it up to a week without any serious issues.

I think you will be fine as I understand that these types of sprays are very mild without many side effects but I would always check with your doctor first.

 

[Lukee]

I anticipate your spells without the ringing becoming longer and more frequent and eventually constant

I hope to God you are right... I think @MrC6688 has had symptoms the longest on this thread though and it is going on 7-8 months. At least my understanding is his pressure has subsided and just the inability to equalize and tinnitus remains.

 

[Renfrey]

Hi @Renfrey, I am taking the Mometasone of my own accord and not from a doctor's prescription. I had some left over from a sinus infection a year ago and I decided to take it on my own; however, I did speak to an ENT today and he told me it was likely the best nasal steroid for ETD and it is very safe in the long term. I was planning to continue it for as long as the ear fullness persists (hopefully only a couple weeks more) but have seen some reports in these forums of people needing 2-3 months of it to resolve their ETD.

Nasal steroids generally will not cause severe side effects. They are not like oral steroids in that sense since the dosage is very small and localized. There isn't much chance of dependency or rebound effect like decongestants. It's a completely different mechanism. Actually my ENT recommended to continue take it for the next couple months, until resolution. He also said if I had good results with Sudafed or a nasal decongestant I could take it up to a week without any serious issues.

I think you will be fine as I understand that these types of sprays are very mild without many side effects but I would always check with your doctor first.

Thanks for the info, Lukee.

 

[MrC6688]

Yeah, I think I'm done with the 'roids. They worked alright the first night, but didn't seem to do much after that. Like you, I don't dig the feeling of them. I don't like messing with hormones.

I'll finish with my hearing test and ENT follow-up with little expectations.

I'm curious about how your Ayurvedic doctor works. Does he give you an actual prescription and you get it filled somewhere? Or does he tell you what to get and then you order it from somewhere? Or is there an herbal Ayurvedic "pharmacy" that he's affiliated with?

Hey @Renfrey, sorry, I realized I never answered all of your questions. Here's the online Ayurvedic supplier where I'm ordering my supplements from: ayurvedicherbsdirect.com/pages/herbs

How did you make out with the ENT? My ENT prescribed nasal spray (Fluticasone Propionate AKA Flonase), two sprays in each nostril every day. I haven't used it yet but yea, I know what you mean. Has anyone used this stuff before? Side effects? @Lukee Have you used Flonase before? If so, what did you experience?

Yea, I'm not a fan of steroids either and prefer to go the natural route. Flonase won't do anything to calm the nervous system but if it relieves the fullness I'm open to trying it.

I was away from the forum for a few days but am eager to read through the latest posts and see what you've all come up with.

 

[MrC6688]

Hey everyone, I'm new here! Really appreciating how you all are supportive of each other.

I've also been suffering from the symptoms of ETD (I think triggered by the Wim Hoff method) but in my case I have been through a period of this before (three years ago) for about a month or so. It was diagnosed as ETD by an ENT consultant (the highest level of doctor here in the UK) and a 7 day course of steroid nose drops cleared up the ear fullness & hyperacusis, and over the course of a week or so the tinnitus gradually went away.

What's different this time is that the ringing started while doing the Wim Hof breathing, at first extremely loud and unfamiliar in tone, but only for a few seconds before disappearing, but then after a few days of doing 3 rounds once a day I noticed a very slight but consistent whine which is when I stopped the breathing exercises.

The next part is what should give us hope - the pattern of symptoms is following exactly the timeframe that my last bout did (although that time from an unknown trigger) - the ringing got progressively louder over the course of a week or so but with no other symptoms, and then the ear pressure and hyperacusis returned after about a week of first noticing the ringing. This continued for about a week but now the ear fullness and hyperacusis seem to be getting a bit better.

ETD (which is basically a symptom rather than a disease itself) has many causes but it sounds like we're all sharing the symptoms associated with it, sometimes it just continues on its own after being triggered by something else. In this case it normally resolves on its own after a while but in the rare cases it persists chronically (+12 weeks) there are surgeries which can remove inflamed tissue, or insert tiny tubes that fall out offer a period of time, so there is always a way out, even if you're a chronic sufferer!

My ENT prescribed Fluticasone Propionate (Flonase). I'll begin taking it this week. As @Lukee mentioned, I've been unable to pop my ears since June 2020 and the tinnitus is still there. The ears being unable to pop is really bothersome at times. I'm hoping the Flonase can help. We'll see.

Regarding the ear ringing, my ENT's theory was that the tinnitus is a result of a hyperactive auditory nervous response due to something the WHM did to my brain. He had no exact answer but that was his best guess. He said the best way to alleviate the tinnitus was to desensitize my brain by tuning it out. So, think of it as the tinnitus being the normal sound of our nervous system which our brain usually ignores... but WHM made our brain start listening to it by making our nervous system hyperactive (sending it into an overdriven sympathetic response). This also ties into the hypercausis. I know the first week or so back in June when I experienced this I felt like I could hear sounds that were barely audible before at near normal levels. It was almost as if my hearing went from normal to highly acute. That has since gotten a little better.

My ENT said Western Medicine has no definitive answer to tinnitus, other than to try different treatments and seeing what works. He actually recommended natural approaches to calm the nervous system such as Yoga, Ayurveda, Tai Chi, Chinese Traditional Medicine, as an alternative route to see if that helps alleviate the ringing.

Back to the ears, all I can say is when I swallow, my ears don't pop and it's been that way for months. Not giving up hope though!

Last 2 things I wanted to mention...

1. Someone mentioned getting dizzy from doing repeated valsalva maneuvers. Same thing happened to me in the past. I also experienced a raise in blood pressure. Doing them once is ok but repeating them can definitely result in dizziness etc. Please be careful when doing them.

2. Someone mentioned they'd bring all of this up to Wim if they get in front of him at a training session, but if anyone ever has a chance to speak to Wim Hof please ask him how to alleviate the tinnitus his breathing method causes. I'd be curious to hear his answer (if he answers the question).

 

[Lukee]

Regarding the ears, all I can say is when I swallow, my ears don't pop and it's been that way for months. I'm hoping the Flonase will help.

Hey Mr C. What does this mean exactly? I get you can't pop your ears but do you then have a clogged feeling or any other strange feeling or is it that you just can pop them? The nasal spray seems to be working for me (fingers crossed) and you might try taking Sudafed for a few days and see if that will help you equalize your ears.

I have a sense of fullness and slight pressure like I'm on a plane. I can pop them and get relief but literally just for that instant. For most of the day now, I don't have the pressure and clogged ears but it comes and goes through the day. I'm wondering if you don't have pressure but still have the clogged feeling?

Also, I have been using the ear popper twice a day at least. I don't know if it's helping at all since I can equalize myself but I'm doing it just in case it's providing a better result.

BTW, I started to feel the pressure and clogged feeling going away after about 2 weeks now on the Mometasone. Give it a couple weeks at least and use the proper method to administer it. I'm really curious if your ears will see relief quickly.

 

[Renfrey]

Hey @Renfrey, sorry, I realized I never answered all of your questions. Here's the online Ayurvedic supplier where I'm ordering my supplements from: ayurvedicherbsdirect.com/pages/herbs

How did you make out with the ENT? My ENT prescribed nasal spray (Fluticasone Propionate AKA Flonase), two sprays in each nostril every day. I haven't used it yet but yea, I know what you mean. Has anyone used this stuff before? Side effects? @Lukee Have you used Flonase before? If so, what did you experience?

Yea, I'm not a fan of steroids either and prefer to go the natural route. Flonase won't do anything to calm the nervous system but if it relieves the fullness I'm open to trying it.

I was away from the forum for a few days but am eager to read through the latest posts and see what you've all come up with.

Nothing to be sorry about, Mr. C. Thanks for the Ayurvedic supplier info. Looks like they're based in Torrance, CA. That's good to know since I'm also in the So Cal area.

I'm still in a holding pattern with my ENT. I'm waiting for an appointment for a hearing test.

Thanks also for the Flonase info. From what I've been reading is that Flonase is available OTC. I might just have to go grab some and give it a shot for a little while too.