Tinnitus Began First Week of June 2020 After Wim Hof Breathing

[Renfrey]

Hey @Renfrey, yes I had tried Craniosacral Therapy and honestly, I might go back to it. I had about 6 sessions between September-November of last year for 1 hour a piece. She worked my sacram, upper neck, head (she worked two pressure points at the base of my skull which felt awesome), spinal column, chest, and legs. The work she did to the back of my head and upper back felt amazing during the session. Speaking of that, when you get done with a session your body is so completely relaxed it's almost as if you're stoned, lol. Sorry to use that analogy but that's the only thing I can think of. It's a very calm, mind and body relaxation type of feeling. Of course, you still have your wits but your entire body is put into such a state of deep relaxation that you feel that way for about 1-2 days.

To start off the session, the therapist would basically do a scan of my body starting with the my head and upper torso, then move to my chest area, lower back, and legs. I feel like most of the adjusting was done around my neck and upper back area. I would recommend CST and after all of our theorizing I might ask her if she can tap into the parasympathetic and use that to bring down the heightened sympathetic response. This time around, I'm very curious to see what she can do.

Regarding my theory on CST, I think it's much more than massage. I would compare it to almost a cross between gentle massage / energy work. If you've ever tried tai chi or reiki, it's more along those lines than massage. I would encourage you to give it a shot and see what kind of results you receive! I am definitely going to give it another shot with this new information we've been theorizing over the past few weeks.

As for self-administration, I'm sure you could do it if you learned how to give CST. Perhaps YouTube has a few good videos we can research? That's a good question.

Thanks for all that info! I know you say it's much more than a massage, and I've never tried tai chi or reiki, but it seems like similar results can be achieved with deep tissue massage variations.

I'm more of a do-it-yourself if possible kinda dude, with interest in saving time, money, and overall convenience. I know what you mean about that relaxed feeling after your sessions. I've felt the same after doing deep tissue foam rolling and percussive therapy (with a Theragun) on myself. But I do realize that it's more effective to have someone else work on you rather than going solo. Nevertheless, I do prefer going solo in this situation for reasons mentioned.

It's interesting that your therapist takes a whole body approach, as well as focusing on the upper back and neck area. I like that holistic approach. I'm going to try that.

Yeah, it would be interesting to hear what she says about the sympathetic/parasympathetic systems.

By the way, has anyone ever tried Flonase (Fluticasone Propionate)? My ENT gave it to me and asked me to use to for the ears not popping but I've yet to try it because the side effects I'm reading about online are freaking me out a bit. The side effects I read included rapid heart beat, dizziness, tinnitus, anxiety. I don't want to experience rapid heart beats and I sure don't want to experience an increase in tinnitus. If anyone's ever used it please let me know.

I tried it for 2 days, but decided to stop for basically the same reasons as you. I decided to not mess with any type of hormonal medicine anymore. I feel like my hormonal system is a delicate thing and should be kept as natural and in balance as possible.

 

[Lukee]

So from my experience I wouldn't recommend doing it, although I'm really curious what would happen.

Thanks Csani. I remember you saying this earlier on. I don't think "pushing through" is a wise decision for anyone, especially with the fullness and pressure. How are you making out with the fullness lately?

@MrC6688, a stink definitely needs to be raised. I'm extremely disappointed that Wim is causing such physical and emotional distress when he claims he found his "path to enlightenment" after his wife's suicide. It seems like he only cares about the money.

what about doing the WHM with much shorter breath holds?

I wouldn't be screwing with it. I have been doing cold showers because they are shown to increase vagal tone, along with simple breathing exercises. I will say that even doing 4-7-8 breathing (holding breath for only 7 count) has given me some light headedness and dizziness. Performing extremely light Valsalva maneuver for a few seconds also causes the same dizziness and uncomfortable feeling. I have been very cautious with all breathing exercises and my physical exercise has been limited to walks. I feel like my head/brain is still recovering and any intense exercise or anything strenuous increase my symptoms of head/ear pressure and tinnitus.

As for my current situation: pressure is back and comes and goes throughout the day though I cannot say why. I don't know if maybe it's reacting to barometric pressure because nothing else really makes sense. My tinnitus has been lower. And for the last two days has turned into a high-pitched hiss of that makes sense. It does fluctuate but sometimes I'm not even sure I can hear it. I have stopped mostly all the vitamins I was taking and now I'm taking fish oil, NAC 1500mg, Turmeric and Mometasone 2 times daily. I think the NAC might really be helping, since I increased my dose to 1500mg I feel like I have had improvement in the tinnitus (but pressure hasn't gotten any better).

@MrC6688, btw, when I am going for a walk, it's extremely cold out and I find that after about ten minutes of walking, a very light Valsalva maneuver will allow me to pop my ears easily and completely. I'm not sure if it's the cold or the walking but I would give it a try.

Last point: my tinnitus is very high pitched. I think around 16 kHz. It has started to turn into almost a cicada sounding tinnitus that is more like chirping than a steady tone for much of the day. I have used myNoise and turned up slider 8 (cicadas) for a few minutes, many times a day. My tinnitus basically disappears and turns into a hiss or sometimes goes away altogether. It's weird because it's the only masking sound that seems to work longer term. The only thing is, I am not sure if it's the sound but I almost feel like the noise is making my ears clog up. I can't explain it but I feel that maybe the pressure and clogged ears is persisting because of external noises, like these sound maskers I have been trying. At least I feel like my tinnitus is getting better. Curious to know if anyone else has the same results with myNoise.

 

[Renfrey]

After I got tinnitus, I've decided to try WHM again about three weeks later. The pressure and the fullness were subsiding so I thought I'll give it a try. After the 3rd or 4th round during the breath retention which I did not force, I've felt strange physical feelings in my ears and at one point I had a sharp pain for a second, so I stopped immediately. The pressure and the fullness came back after this.

So from my experience I wouldn't recommend doing it, although I'm really curious what would happen. But I guess none of us wants to risk it.

Thanks for reinforcing our trepidation by your experience.

Well, I kind of know what would happen by the reports on Reddit of people with chronic tinnitus who basically ignore it and push through the WHM regardless. I don't know how or why they do it, but it does seem to be happening. I guess the question for them would be: is the tinnitus getting better or worse with the WHM?

Come to think of it, @Ross Duncan and @Adam Sutcliffe wrote they will keep doing it. If you guys read this, can you please write us about you experiences?

Oh yeah, that's right. There were a couple of 'takers' in this thread. Yeah, please write us.

 

[Renfrey]

My take on Wim's explanations on his breathing method & tinnitus...

The breathing exercises also increase neural activity in the auditory brainstem, where the brain processes sounds, possibly causing auditory nerve cells to become over-excited. -> Yes, I agree. And this is what we've all been theorizing for the past few weeks.

The scientific community continues to grapple with the particulars of tinnitus, but has established that the phenomenon itself is harmless. -> More like the scientific community either has no answer for it because it's easier for medical doctors to prescribe steroids and tell people to just deal with it, or Wim is completely bullsh*tting here with that assertion. No one enjoys dealing with tinnitus and it can cause people anxiety and depression, neither of which are harmless.

We have found that in the vast majority of cases, the ringing disappears with repeated breathing practice. -> Obviously for many the tinnitus persists. How about addressing those cases too?

If you find that, after several weeks, the noise persists or intensifies, some underlying physiological condition may be at play, in which case we recommend you consult a medical professional. -> Cop out statement.

I agree. Being who he is and all his experience with this, his answers and explanations seem rather weak and inadequate.

 

[Renfrey]

I've been reading that doing the Valsalva maneuver too strong can cause CSF leak. This makes sense to me from a logical viewpoint, as in my mind, forcing air up into the ears/head could cause a "gasket" to "blow" somewhere.

This is why I've been wary of using the Eustachi device too. Because it's basically the same action as the Valsalva, only it's much harder to control the force of the air coming out. The air pressure on the Eustachi when it fills the tubes is strong and forceful. You can feel the tubes (or wherever it goes) filling up and maxing out quickly and forcefully.

Here's more on Valsalva and CSF leak:

If a valsalva-type maneuver is done too strongly, it can actually cause a Cerebral Spinal Fluid leak. CSF leaks can cause many different symptoms, many of them severe. The following symptoms are taken from the website CSF Leak Association: (See more comprehensive list of symptoms at bottom of post, which people on this forum mention quite often).

Ears/Hearing

• Tinnitus (ranging from ringing and buzzing to pulsatile tinnitus)
• Pressure sensations in the ears/ear popping
• Feeling of liquid in the ears
• Hearing loss (sometimes similar to Meniere's disease) and dulled hearing

I've mentioned frequently there's often quite a bit of overlap between Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and tinnitus. The following testimonial is pretty extreme, and I'm almost reluctant to share it. But it does illustrate how one person's debilitating CFS was caused by a "valsalva-type" maneuver. which precipitated a CSF leak:

I tried to blow up what I thought was a balloon, but it was actually a water bomb. I blew so hard I passed out. I was completely well with no symptoms at all prior to that, but since then I have never really been able to be upright due to horrible symptoms of presyncope, severe headache (I feel headache is not the word I want to use as it is far more than a headache, but I don't have another descriptive term, basically it feels as if I am dying if I try to force myself to be upright), nausea, light & sound sensitivity, cognitive impairment & more.

Once you read about spinal CSF leaks, my mode of onset, symptoms & connective tissue disorder scream CSF leak, but I did not come across this diagnosis until 4.5 years in. ... So my cause was very traumatic/structural, with a clear inciting event. It was 5pm, 4th August 2014. Since then I was diagnosed with both POTS & EDS - I came across both of these myself by researching my symptoms, & saw specialists who confirmed these with tilt table, Beighton score etc. ...... I learned that valsalva manoevres, even a coughing fit or hard sneeze in some people, can cause a leak, it is a recognized mechanism for how a person can be instantly & profoundly incapacitated & unable to be upright.
​

Full Listing of CSF Leak Symptoms

Head

• Headaches (frontal, parietal and occipital)
• Heaviness of head
• Feeling of pressure within the head
• Sensitivity of, or tingling sensations within, the scalp
• Dizziness or loss of balance

Ears/Hearing

• Tinnitus (ranging from ringing and buzzing to pulsatile tinnitus)
• Pressure sensations in the ears/ear popping
• Feeling of liquid in the ears
• Hearing loss (sometimes similar to Meniere's disease) and dulled hearing

Eyes/Vision

• Blurry vision
• Double vision
• Pain behind eyes
• Pain when moving eyes

Facial

• Facial numbness
• Sinus pressure
• Jaw pain/tooth ache
• Temporomandibular joint pain and stiffness

Back, Neck & Limbs

• Neck pain and stiffness
• Back pain (area-specific and general)
• Tingling sensations and spasms in the spine, back, arms and sometimes legs

Other Symptoms

• Rapid heartbeat, particularly when sitting or standing
• Nausea and, in extreme cases, sickness
• Cognitive decline (including memory loss and loss of concentration)

Cranial Leak-specific

• Fluid discharge from ears, nose and to back of throat
• Recurring or chronic meningitis

 

[Lukee]

I've been reading that doing the Valsalva maneuver too strong can cause CSF leak. This makes sense to me from a logical viewpoint, as in my mind, forcing air up into the ears/head could cause a "gasket" to "blow" somewhere.

This is why I've been wary of using the Eustachi device too. Because it's basically the same action as the Valsalva, only it's much harder to control the force of the air coming out. The air pressure on the Eustachi when it fills the tubes is strong and forceful. You can feel the tubes (or wherever it goes) filling up and maxing out quickly and forcefully.

Here's more on Valsalva and CSF leak:

If a valsalva-type maneuver is done too strongly, it can actually cause a Cerebral Spinal Fluid leak. CSF leaks can cause many different symptoms, many of them severe. The following symptoms are taken from the website CSF Leak Association: (See more comprehensive list of symptoms at bottom of post, which people on this forum mention quite often).

Ears/Hearing

• Tinnitus (ranging from ringing and buzzing to pulsatile tinnitus)
• Pressure sensations in the ears/ear popping
• Feeling of liquid in the ears
• Hearing loss (sometimes similar to Meniere's disease) and dulled hearing

I've mentioned frequently there's often quite a bit of overlap between Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and tinnitus. The following testimonial is pretty extreme, and I'm almost reluctant to share it. But it does illustrate how one person's debilitating CFS was caused by a "valsalva-type" maneuver. which precipitated a CSF leak:

I tried to blow up what I thought was a balloon, but it was actually a water bomb. I blew so hard I passed out. I was completely well with no symptoms at all prior to that, but since then I have never really been able to be upright due to horrible symptoms of presyncope, severe headache (I feel headache is not the word I want to use as it is far more than a headache, but I don't have another descriptive term, basically it feels as if I am dying if I try to force myself to be upright), nausea, light & sound sensitivity, cognitive impairment & more.

Once you read about spinal CSF leaks, my mode of onset, symptoms & connective tissue disorder scream CSF leak, but I did not come across this diagnosis until 4.5 years in. ... So my cause was very traumatic/structural, with a clear inciting event. It was 5pm, 4th August 2014. Since then I was diagnosed with both POTS & EDS - I came across both of these myself by researching my symptoms, & saw specialists who confirmed these with tilt table, Beighton score etc. ...... I learned that valsalva manoevres, even a coughing fit or hard sneeze in some people, can cause a leak, it is a recognized mechanism for how a person can be instantly & profoundly incapacitated & unable to be upright.
​

Full Listing of CSF Leak Symptoms

Head

• Headaches (frontal, parietal and occipital)
• Heaviness of head
• Feeling of pressure within the head
• Sensitivity of, or tingling sensations within, the scalp
• Dizziness or loss of balance

Ears/Hearing

• Tinnitus (ranging from ringing and buzzing to pulsatile tinnitus)
• Pressure sensations in the ears/ear popping
• Feeling of liquid in the ears
• Hearing loss (sometimes similar to Meniere's disease) and dulled hearing

Eyes/Vision

• Blurry vision
• Double vision
• Pain behind eyes
• Pain when moving eyes

Facial

• Facial numbness
• Sinus pressure
• Jaw pain/tooth ache
• Temporomandibular joint pain and stiffness

Back, Neck & Limbs

• Neck pain and stiffness
• Back pain (area-specific and general)
• Tingling sensations and spasms in the spine, back, arms and sometimes legs

Other Symptoms

• Rapid heartbeat, particularly when sitting or standing
• Nausea and, in extreme cases, sickness
• Cognitive decline (including memory loss and loss of concentration)

Cranial Leak-specific

• Fluid discharge from ears, nose and to back of throat
• Recurring or chronic meningitis

This is crazy. I haven't been pushing hard at all but I have been popping my ears several times a day, probably once an hour. This does scare the crap out of me not because the Valsalva but because the post that mentioned CSF leak early on and the fact that we might have caused a leak during WHM. I am supposed to have a follow up with my neurologist tomorrow and I will definitely ask him about it. The one bit I hope for us is that Mr. C and my MRI came back normal and a CSF leak if severe can show on MRI.

I have like 80% of the symptoms on that list. Very terrifying.

 

[Renfrey]

I wouldn't be screwing with it. I have been doing cold showers because they are shown to increase vagal tone, along with simple breathing exercises. I will say that even doing 4-7-8 breathing (holding breath for only 7 count) has given me some light headedness and dizziness.

Well, when I said breath holding for a shorter amount of time, 7 to 10 seconds is really all I had in mind. I haven't done any breath holding at all since this all started. Just pondering it though.

There seems like such a fine line between the sympathetic and the parasympathetic systems, don't you think? On one hand, we have a sympathetic shocking action of going into cold water. But on the other, we have that same sympathetic action being calmed and tamed by the parasympathetic via deep breathing and relaxation.

I wonder if we're able to fully change the sympathetic response to a parasympathetic response by breathing and relaxation. Or does some sympathetic remain along with the parasympathetic? Or is it a cumulative effect to where after a person has been cold training long enough, there isn't even the initial sympathetic response anymore? Would the person be running on the parasympathetic even before getting in the water? Just thinking out loud.

As for my current situation: pressure is back and comes and goes throughout the day though I cannot say why. I don't know if maybe it's reacting to barometric pressure because nothing else really makes sense. My tinnitus has been lower. And for the last two days has turned into a high-pitched hiss of that makes sense. It does fluctuate but sometimes I'm not even sure I can hear it. I have stopped mostly all the vitamins I was taking and now I'm taking fish oil, NAC 1500mg, Turmeric and Mometasone 2 times daily. I think the NAC might really be helping, since I increased my dose to 1500mg I feel like I have had improvement in the tinnitus (but pressure hasn't gotten any better).

Thanks for the update. Good to hear your tinnitus is lower. Yeah, the high-pitched hiss totally makes sense. That's the kind I've had the whole time. Mine fluctuates a lot and can barely hear it at times as well. I don't have much pressure anymore, but when I do get it, it's real minor and doesn't last long. I'm in full NAC mode too, taking around 4 x 500mg caps a day. I also started taking apple cider vinegar w/the mother yesterday. So that, along with a boatload of other herbs, spices, and supplements is where I'm currently at.

Last point: my tinnitus is very high pitched. I think around 16 kHz. It has started to turn into almost a cicada sounding tinnitus that is more like chirping than a steady tone for much of the day. I have used myNoise and turned up slider 8 (cicadas) for a few minutes, many times a day. My tinnitus basically disappears and turns into a hiss or sometimes goes away altogether. It's weird because it's the only masking sound that seems to work longer term. The only thing is, I am not sure if it's the sound but I almost feel like the noise is making my ears clog up. I can't explain it but I feel that maybe the pressure and clogged ears is persisting because of external noises, like these sound maskers I have been trying. At least I feel like my tinnitus is getting better. Curious to know if anyone else has the same results with myNoise.

Yeah, I know what you mean about the clogged ear feeling. I don't get it from the Sound Oasis masker that I use, but I do get it sometimes (not always) from some of the high-pitched sound therapy videos that I've been sampling.

I'm think I'm noticing that if the pitch is real high or comes close to matching my tinnitus pitch, I seem to get that clogged feeling sometimes. I'm still not quite sure though. I'm still experimenting with it all.

 

[Renfrey]

This is crazy. I haven't been pushing hard at all but I have been popping my ears several times a day, probably once an hour. This does scare the crap out of me not because the Valsalva but because the post that mentioned CSF leak early on and the fact that we might have caused a leak during WHM. I am supposed to have a follow up with my neurologist tomorrow and I will definitely ask him about it. The one bit I hope for us is that Mr. C and my MRI came back normal and a CSF leak if severe can show on MRI.

I have like 80% of the symptoms on that list. Very terrifying.

That's exactly where my thoughts went too - to the WHM. Being one who was into the full-blown squeezing into the head, you might say that I'm a prime candidate for CSF leak. But what gives me a reasonable amount of comfort is that I only have one symptom on that list, which is the tinnitus. The only other one that rarely comes around anymore is the minor pressure.

You'll be alright, man.

 

[Lukee]

That's exactly where my thoughts went too - to the WHM. Being one who was into the full-blown squeezing into the head, you might say that I'm a prime candidate for CSF leak. But what gives me a reasonable amount of comfort is that I only have one symptom on that list, which is the tinnitus. The only other one that rarely comes around anymore is the minor pressure.

You'll be alright, man.

I sure hope so! The other thing that gives me comfort is that I don't have headaches, which are the primary symptom associated with CSF leaks. There are leaks where no headaches are reported but I think different underlying condition.

 

[Lukee]

On one hand, we have a sympathetic shocking action of going into cold water. But on the other, we have that same sympathetic action being calmed and tamed by the parasympathetic via deep breathing and relaxation.

It seems like you may have it backwards. I know it seems counterintuitive but cold water increases vagal tone which is parasympathetic response. Prior to all this happening I would've thought it would activate sympathetic but its actually the opposite, which is why I've continued with cold showers. I guess that's also part of the balance to the WHM, the breathing increases the sympathetic and cold exposure increases the parasympathetic and keeps some form of balance.

I don't have much pressure anymore, but when I do get it, it's real minor and doesn't last long.

Glad to hear your pressure has mostly resolved. I am trying my hardest to see what triggers it. It has been 5 weeks now and for a full week it had pretty much resolved and I felt amazing, then it came back and I felt anxious and depressed. If we can find out what triggers it, there might be a clue for this whole puzzle. Which leads me to my next point:

'm think I'm noticing that if the pitch is real high or comes close to matching my tinnitus pitch, I seem to get that clogged feeling sometimes. I'm still not quite sure though. I'm still experimenting with it all.

I feel like the high pitches might do the same to me, potentially even regular louder noises. I've noticed that even having my phone on speaker, I have felt subtle movements in my ear when the person was speaking. It wasn't painful but I could clearly feel a slight reaction like my eardrum was shuddering to the noise. I have also had some occasional fluttering which has mostly subsided but I have noticed it in response to certain noises. Renfrey, was it you who mentioned the low frequency rumble? I think its TTTS or some mild form of it. I'm considering to wear ear protection for a few days to see if it has any effect on the pressure or tinnitus.

I'm in full NAC mode too, taking around 4 x 500mg caps a day. I also started taking apple cider vinegar w/the mother yesterday

I think the NAC might really be helping. Apple cider vinegar might helps as well. I was taking it myself but haven't in a couple weeks because I wasn't sure if there was any efficacy (I was taking it for other reasons, not tinnitus). Seems like a few people on the forum have found some success with it so I feel like it cant hurt. The other thing I was willing to try is black seed oil. Has anyone here tried it?

Is anyone on any SSRIs or tried any SSRI for our problems? I was prescribed Zoloft in case I want to take it but I'm not entirely sure I want to go down that road even though some people have gotten remission from their tinnitus on it.

 

[MrC6688]

I tried it for 2 days, but decided to stop for basically the same reasons as you. I decided to not mess with any type of hormonal medicine anymore. I feel like my hormonal system is a delicate thing and should be kept as natural and in balance as possible.

Are you aware of any non-steroidal alternative? I'd still like to try to un-pop my ears.

I just prefer not messing with steroids if I don't have to. Thanks!

 

[MrC6688]

This is crazy. I haven't been pushing hard at all but I have been popping my ears several times a day, probably once an hour. This does scare the crap out of me not because the Valsalva but because the post that mentioned CSF leak early on and the fact that we might have caused a leak during WHM. I am supposed to have a follow up with my neurologist tomorrow and I will definitely ask him about it. The one bit I hope for us is that Mr. C and my MRI came back normal and a CSF leak if severe can show on MRI.

I have like 80% of the symptoms on that list. Very terrifying.

For what it's worth, the last time I saw an ENT I specifically asked him if I had a CSF leak and he said absolutely not. I think what we're dealing with is:

1. intracranial pressure caused by the inhalation -> breath hold / forced air into head.

2. hyperactivity of auditory neurons.

That's my best guess anyway.

Yes, if there's a way to make a stink about this... I'm open for ideas!

 

[Lukee]

Are you aware of any non-steroidal alternative? I'd still like to try to un-pop my ears.

Hey Mr C. I'm no doctor for sure but I did speak to my doctor about the nasal spray (actually 3 doctors) and they all said that even chronic, long term use of the nasal spray should be no issue. It's not systemic steroids and the dosage is very small because it's going right to the sinuses (or ET in our case). My doctor actually told me to double the dosage I was taking and said leave nothing to chance since I will likely try it for a couple months only. I feel bad that so many months into this you still can't pop your ears, I'm hoping you get some resolution.

Are you willing to try a dose of Sudafed? They might help... or maybe even a nasal decongestant.

For what it's worth, the last time I saw an ENT I specifically asked him if I had a CSF leak and he said absolutely not. I think what we're dealing with is:

1. intracranial pressure caused by the inhalation -> breath hold / forced air into head.

2. hyperactivity of auditory neurons.

That's my best guess anyway.

Yes, if there's a way to make a stink about this... I'm open for ideas!

This is good news. Glad to know it's not CSF but I will ask my neurologist tomorrow and get his opinion. I'm wondering if the ear pressure is an inflammatory response to "save" the ears maybe? Why do our ears react to sounds and get stuffy when listening to certain sounds? Seems like we still have some digging to do.

 

[Renfrey]

It seems like you may have it backwards. I know it seems counterintuitive but cold water increases vagal tone which is parasympathetic response. Prior to all this happening I would've thought it would activate sympathetic but its actually the opposite, which is why I've continued with cold showers. I guess that's also part of the balance to the WHM, the breathing increases the sympathetic and cold exposure increases the parasympathetic and keeps some form of balance.

Here's the way I understand it:

Cold exposure increased sympathetic activity, which was blunted after cold acclimation. Parasympathetic activity showed a minor increase in cold, which was enhanced after cold acclimation. In conclusion, cold habituation lowers sympathetic activation and causes a shift toward increased parasympathetic activity.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18785356/

Acute cold exposure will stimulate the vagus nerve. Your sympathetic system (fight or flight) decreases when your body adjusts to cold, while your parasympathetic system (rest and digest) increases.
https://www.whoop.com/thelocker/vagus-nerve-increase-hrv/

Exposing your body to acute cold conditions, such as taking a cold shower or splashing cold water on your face, increases stimulation of the vagus nerve. While your body adjusts to the cold, sympathetic activity declines, while parasympathetic activity increases.
https://www.wimhofmethod.com/vagus-nerve-stimulation​

So it sounds like what they're saying in essence is that cold exposure is initially a sympathetic, fight or flight action, but is changed to parasympathetic via prolonged acclimation. In other words, if I went into the ice bath for say only 20 seconds without acclimation or prior training, then I would most likely be in a sympathetic, fight or flight mode.

Glad to hear your pressure has mostly resolved. I am trying my hardest to see what triggers it. It has been 5 weeks now and for a full week it had pretty much resolved and I felt amazing, then it came back and I felt anxious and depressed. If we can find out what triggers it, there might be a clue for this whole puzzle. Which leads me to my next point:

We'll figure it out, bro. We got the most dedicated people here working on it.

I feel like the high pitches might do the same to me, potentially even regular louder noises. I've noticed that even having my phone on speaker, I have felt subtle movements in my ear when the person was speaking. It wasn't painful but I could clearly feel a slight reaction like my eardrum was shuddering to the noise. I have also had some occasional fluttering which has mostly subsided but I have noticed it in response to certain noises. Renfrey, was it you who mentioned the low frequency rumble? I think its TTTS or some mild form of it. I'm considering to wear ear protection for a few days to see if it has any effect on the pressure or tinnitus.

Nah, wasn't me. What's TTTS? When I looked it up it says, "Twin To Twin Transfusion Syndrome".

I think the NAC might really be helping. Apple cider vinegar might helps as well. I was taking it myself but haven't in a couple weeks because I wasn't sure if there was any efficacy (I was taking it for other reasons, not tinnitus). Seems like a few people on the forum have found some success with it so I feel like it cant hurt. The other thing I was willing to try is black seed oil. Has anyone here tried it?

Yeah, I found out that ACV might help from that thread on this forum. I haven't heard about black seed oil yet. I'll have to look that one up.

Is anyone on any SSRIs or tried any SSRI for our problems? I was prescribed Zoloft in case I want to take it but I'm not entirely sure I want to go down that road even though some people have gotten remission from their tinnitus on it.

Negatory on that one. I've never tried any SSRIs and personally wouldn't dabble in them. I think there plenty of other directions to explore. Not knocking anyone who does though. Just saying, not for me.

 

[Lukee]

This time the doctor gave me a steroid injection and a Prednisone 5 day taper cycle.

Hey Renfrey, I forgot about this. How did the cycle go? Do you believe it helped with the ringing or fullness? Was the injection in your ear or muscular?

I believe you got tinnitus and pressure a couple weeks after me but you seem to have passed the head pressure stage sooner. Not sure if it's age, genetics, severity of onset or maybe the Prednisone or injection helped. I haven't been able to get my hands on a Prednisone cycle so I'm curious how well you think it worked for you.

Nah, wasn't me. What's TTTS? When I looked it up it says, "Twin To Twin Transfusion Syndrome".

Tonic tensor tympani syndrome (TTTS), it's basically when your ear go nuts and spasms. Have a read and see if it fits your issue.

So it sounds like what they're saying in essence is that cold exposure is initially a sympathetic, fight or flight action, but is changed to parasympathetic via prolonged acclimation. In other words, if I went into the ice bath for say only 20 seconds without acclimation or prior training, then I would most likely be in a sympathetic, fight or flight mode.

Ya I think you're right and that could make a lot of sense. I'm thinking I might have incidentally invoked more sympathetic response by taking a cold shower but not acclimating to the cold. The only thing I don't understand is why is it suggested to splash your face with cold water to stimulate vagus nerve? It is too short of a period to acclimate to the cold.

 

[Renfrey]

For what it's worth, the last time I saw an ENT I specifically asked him if I had a CSF leak and he said absolutely not. I think what we're dealing with is:

1. intracranial pressure caused by the inhalation -> breath hold / forced air into head.

2. hyperactivity of auditory neurons.

That's my best guess anyway.

That's good! Thanks, I needed a little uplifting news after all this CSF leak talk.

Yes, if there's a way to make a stink about this... I'm open for ideas!

Facebook, Instagram, Twitter?

 

[MrC6688]

Hey Mr C. I'm no doctor for sure but I did speak to my doctor about the nasal spray (actually 3 doctors) and they all said that even chronic, long term use of the nasal spray should be no issue. It's not systemic steroids and the dosage is very small because it's going right to the sinuses (or ET in our case). My doctor actually told me to double the dosage I was taking and said leave nothing to chance since I will likely try it for a couple months only. I feel bad that so many months into this you still can't pop your ears, I'm hoping you get some resolution.

Are you willing to try a dose of Sudafed? They might help... or maybe even a nasal decongestant.

This is good news. Glad to know it's not CSF but I will ask my neurologist tomorrow and get his opinion. I'm wondering if the ear pressure is an inflammatory response to "save" the ears maybe? Why do our ears react to sounds and get stuffy when listening to certain sounds? Seems like we still have some digging to do.

Thanks @Lukee. It's not that I'm unwilling to try the nasal spray, I guess I was just a little apprehensive after reading some of the side effects that some people experienced. Who knows, maybe nothing will happen

If anyone here has tried Flonase without issue then I'd like to hear about it. Otherwise I'll just contemplate it a bit more or bite the bullet and give it a shot. Thanks!

 

[Renfrey]

Are you aware of any non-steroidal alternative? I'd still like to try to un-pop my ears.

Not really, other than maybe some sort of homeopathic ear drops.

https://www.google.com/search?q=homeopathic+ear+drops+for+clogged+ears

 

[Renfrey]

Are you aware of any non-steroidal alternative? I'd still like to try to un-pop my ears.

I just prefer not messing with steroids if I don't have to. Thanks!

Mr. C,

I was at Sprouts today and noticed they have a few different drug-free and herbal based nasal sprays that claim to be effective sinus and pressure treatments. I've never heard of drug-free nasal spray before, other than basic saline sprays. You might want to check them out if you haven't already:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Xlear+nasal+spray+review

I picked up some Bentonite Detox formula while I was there. I used it once before. I figure this is as good a time as any to use it again.

https://yerba.com/product/bentonite-32-oz-quart/

 

[Renfrey]

Hey Renfrey, I forgot about this. How did the cycle go? Do you believe it helped with the ringing or fullness? Was the injection in your ear or muscular?

I believe you got tinnitus and pressure a couple weeks after me but you seem to have passed the head pressure stage sooner. Not sure if it's age, genetics, severity of onset or maybe the Prednisone or injection helped. I haven't been able to get my hands on a Prednisone cycle so I'm curious how well you think it worked for you.

Hey Lukee,

The first night of the cycle went the best. The ringing and the fullness were basically gone. I was really hopeful that this would be a lasting cure. But the good effects slowly faded and I felt like I was at square one at the end of the cycle. But that's just speaking in terms of the tinnitus. I clearly felt the 'offness' and 'gumby' side effects of the Prednisone throughout the whole cycle as well. I think Mr. C had a similar overall bad experience with Prednisone too.

The injection was intramuscular right below the hip. I forgot what the name of it was, but it was a different steroid than Prednisone.

Yeah, there could be a lot of different reasons why head pressure seems to not be much of an issue for me anymore. I knock wood when I say that and hope I don't 'jinx' myself. Maybe the Prednisone did help the pressure in a long term sense. I just know that the pressure/fullness came back after a couple days into the cycle and seems to have gradually decreased since then.

Tonic tensor tympani syndrome (TTTS), it's basically when your ear go nuts and spasms. Have a read and see if it fits your issue.

Hmm. Well, of those symptoms listed, I only have the tinnitus and the occasional minor fullness. So I don't think I fully match the criteria. Nor do I think that what I have is anxiety-based, as they say.

Ya I think you're right and that could make a lot of sense. I'm thinking I might have incidentally invoked more sympathetic response by taking a cold shower but not acclimating to the cold. The only thing I don't understand is why is it suggested to splash your face with cold water to stimulate vagus nerve? It is too short of a period to acclimate to the cold.

That's a good question. I really don't know why they say that. It seems like splashing cold water on your face for 2 seconds is not nearly enough time to have any significant effect on any vagal or nervous system. Maybe it stimulates the vagus nerve very temporarily in the sense that it gives a short calming and refocusing effect?

 

[Csani90]

How are you making out with the fullness lately?

Like you, I have it on and off. I can't figure out what is triggering it besides stress, but it's coming on even on relaxed chilled out days. Maybe it's weather. It is crazy that one day it's 16 celsius and the other days it drops to 3 celsius. I know I'm sensitive to changes in weather fronts. The atmospheric pressure have effect on the human body especially on the inner ears and circulation, so there might be a connection and it would explain why it comes and goes.

Guys! Do you have this loud crackling noise in your ears when you swallow? Because I do and this is very annoying. There must be something in the inner ear what is causing this sound, so I don't understand why the doctor's test didn't show up anything. Even when I don't have the fullness it still crackles when I swallow. Only after taking a very hot shower, it seems to be less loud. I think I can pop my ears because I can feel air pass through it.

I'm still thinking about starting the Mometasone sparay, but like you I'm a bit hesitant to do it. But it might help with the ETD symptoms, so I think I should give it a try I guess.

 

[Renfrey]

Like you, I have it on and off. I can't figure out what is triggering it besides stress, but it's coming on even on relaxed chilled out days. Maybe it's weather. It is crazy that one day it's 16 celsius and the other days it drops to 3 celsius. I know I'm sensitive to changes in weather fronts. The atmospheric pressure have effect on the human body especially on the inner ears and circulation, so there might be a connection and it would explain why it comes and goes.

Csani,

Just curious if you're still doing any type of cold exposure training? If so, what is your overall feeling about it? Do you feel any of the claimed benefits of it? For me, I still do ice baths everyday with deep slow breathing. I've been doing ice baths everyday for many months for at least 10 minutes at a time. And so far, I've really gotten a good feeling from it - strong, healthy, calm, more cold resistant, immune system boost etc.

Guys! Do you have this loud crackling noise in your ears when you swallow? Because I do and this is very annoying. There must be something in the inner ear what is causing this sound, so I don't understand why the doctor's test didn't show up anything. Even when I don't have the fullness it still crackles when I swallow. Only after taking a very hot shower, it seems to be less loud. I think I can pop my ears because I can feel air pass through it.

Yeah, as a matter of fact. But not quite to that degree. or about the last 3 days, I've noticed a cracking sound only in one ear sometimes when I either yawn or burp forcefully. And even then, the cracking sound isn't really that loud either. Just maybe a notch above the normal sound of ear popping/clearing. It's really strange to me also that I can't voluntarily make it "crack" by simulating the yawn or burp. It seems to do it on its own and really not very often. But often enough to notice.

I'm not sure if this helps or not, but I've been doing pressure massaging/exercising around my whole head and neck areas, especially right behind the ear lobes. You might try that to see if it helps.

 

[Lukee]

The first night of the cycle went the best. The ringing and the fullness were basically gone.

This is kind of big news. If I'm not mistaken, @MrC6688 had some improvement day one as well. Would it mean that the tinnitus is being potentially caused by inflammation? If the tinnitus went away completely after taking steroids, I would imagine that the root cause is then inflammation.

Mr. C care to elaborate on your experience? I know you didn't feel comfortable taking the full dose but did u feel almost complete resolution as well when you did?

BTW, I spoke to the neurologist today. He said no way it's CSF leak but I've read that it is hard to catch small leaks on MRI.

 

[MrC6688]

This is kind of big news. If I'm not mistaken, @MrC6688 had some improvement day one as well. Would it mean that the tinnitus is being potentially caused by inflammation? If the tinnitus went away completely after taking steroids, I would imagine that the root cause is then inflammation.

Mr. C care to elaborate on your experience? I know you didn't feel comfortable taking the full dose but did u feel almost complete resolution as well when you did?

BTW, I spoke to the neurologist today. He said no way it's CSF leak but I've read that it is hard to catch small leaks on MRI.

Sure, when I took 20 mg pill of Prednisone on the first day I did see a decrease in the tinnitus. I just didn't like the way it made me feel. I felt like my breathing was a bit off and I had a nervous *butterflies* energy which I didn't care for. So, my ENT cut me down to 10 mg and that did basically nothing. The original dose called for 40 mg a day (20 mg twice a day). When I took 10 mg twice a day, it didn't do much unfortunately.

 

[Lukee]

Like you, I have it on and off. I can't figure out what is triggering it besides stress, but it's coming on even on relaxed chilled out days. Maybe it's weather. It is crazy that one day it's 16 celsius and the other days it drops to 3 celsius. I know I'm sensitive to changes in weather fronts. The atmospheric pressure have effect on the human body especially on the inner ears and circulation, so there might be a connection and it would explain why it comes and goes.

Guys! Do you have this loud crackling noise in your ears when you swallow? Because I do and this is very annoying. There must be something in the inner ear what is causing this sound, so I don't understand why the doctor's test didn't show up anything. Even when I don't have the fullness it still crackles when I swallow. Only after taking a very hot shower, it seems to be less loud. I think I can pop my ears because I can feel air pass through it.

I'm still thinking about starting the Mometasone sparay, but like you I'm a bit hesitant to do it. But it might help with the ETD symptoms, so I think I should give it a try I guess.

Could very well be the weather causing the fullness. In terms of the crackling, I have it very mild in the morning usually when I wake up. Once I go about my day and shower, it's usually gone but some days it's more noticeable than others.

I have been getting more head pressure and very mild headaches. I'm not sure if it's because of the neck stretches or what's going on but didn't have it before the tinnitus.

It's really strange to me also that I can't voluntarily make it "crack" by simulating the yawn or burp.

When this whole thing started for me, I was able to pop my ears and yawn and get my ET opened up relatively easily. Now I can no longer clear the tubes by yawning, only on some occasions, and the popping ears is more difficult too. It's strange but it seems like what Mr C is going through. You recover from the fullness but lose the ability to pop your ears.

 

[MrC6688]

Guys! Do you have this loud crackling noise in your ears when you swallow? Because I do and this is very annoying. There must be something in the inner ear what is causing this sound, so I don't understand why the doctor's test didn't show up anything. Even when I don't have the fullness it still crackles when I swallow. Only after taking a very hot shower, it seems to be less loud. I think I can pop my ears because I can feel air pass through it.

Yes, when I swallow I hear that crackling too. You're not alone. I feel like our symptoms are all pretty much the same... ears that either won't pop or fullness, high pitched "eeeee" tinnitus, which means the injury we all suffered is probably the same or similar.

Off topic... it honestly pisses me off that no one from the WHM camp cares to shed light on this to try to help those getting hurt by his method. Wim is hurting people and his followers slam anyone who raises these issues or tells them they "have medical issues that need to be seen by a doctor". Several pages back in this thread, one of you guys posted a video of a bearded WHM veteran from the midwest who spoke of tinnitus. Well, I actually exchanged emails with him and he gave me the same canned response, that WHM doesn't cause tinnitus and that it must be an underlying medical condition causing it. I'm sick of hearing this BS excuse. I know we need to figure this out on our own and that Wim himself probably doesn't give a sh*t about the number of people he's hurting. Anyway, that's the reality of it. I swear, the more I hear about the guy, the more he comes off like a Jim Jones of pseudo-meditation. Ok rant over.

 

[Cernuto]

From what I understand, a CSF leak is fairly difficult to diagnose.

Like you, I have it on and off. I can't figure out what is triggering it besides stress, but it's coming on even on relaxed chilled out days. Maybe it's weather. It is crazy that one day it's 16 celsius and the other days it drops to 3 celsius. I know I'm sensitive to changes in weather fronts. The atmospheric pressure have effect on the human body especially on the inner ears and circulation, so there might be a connection and it would explain why it comes and goes.

Guys! Do you have this loud crackling noise in your ears when you swallow? Because I do and this is very annoying. There must be something in the inner ear what is causing this sound, so I don't understand why the doctor's test didn't show up anything. Even when I don't have the fullness it still crackles when I swallow. Only after taking a very hot shower, it seems to be less loud. I think I can pop my ears because I can feel air pass through it.

I'm still thinking about starting the Mometasone sparay, but like you I'm a bit hesitant to do it. But it might help with the ETD symptoms, so I think I should give it a try I guess.

When there's rain coming my tinnitus usually becomes much louder. I have a barometer app on my phone although I haven't found any correlation between the two.

When I swallow I get the crackling. I always thought this crackling was normal?

 

[MrC6688]

Hey guys. Sorry for my angry rant in previous post. I know the intention of this thread is to exchange ideas and experiences to help each other ultimately find a cure for our WHM induced tinnitus.

I had just gotten so angry last night about this whole Wim Hof experience that I needed to get it off my chest. With that said, I don't want to drag the forum down and do want to promote positivity here. We're all in this together and the last thing I want is for people to get turned off by seeing an author of a thread start to rant. More than anything, I want to find a cure for our tinnitus and leave the information up for other WHM tinnitus sufferers so many can be helped. That's my goal anyway.

Thanks for being a part of this. Your ideas and contributions have been awesome so far. Let's keep it up.

 

[Lukee]

From what I understand, a CSF leak is fairly difficult to diagnose.

I think leaks are pretty rare and a small leak is difficult to diagnose. Any substantial leak is easy to see by MRI because there is a sag in the central part of the brain where it connects to the spine (as explained to me by my neurologist). I think there is still a slight possibility that we could be dealing with a leak but the one thing that I'm hopeful for is the lack of migraines or headaches. I have some mild pressure but I wouldn't say I have headaches, which are the hallmark for CSF leaks.

When there's rain coming my tinnitus usually becomes much louder. I have a barometer app on my phone although I haven't found any correlation between the two.

I haven't been checking the barometric pressures but like @Csani90 described, I will get random pressure just sitting at my work desk. I am thinking it could be 1 of 3 things: 1) barometric pressure changes, 2) anxiety, even if we don't consciously feel it, 3) maybe reacting to noise, even frequencies too high to hear.

As I've mentioned, after listening to some of these neuromodulation tracks and such, I sometimes get ear fullness, even at extremely low volume. Maybe something is happening and our ANS is reacting.

When I swallow I get the crackling. I always thought this crackling was normal?

I think the crackling to an extent is normal. I read that once you start to experience some ETD issues you start to become more aware of the feeling and sounds of your ETs. It's possible that we are noticing them more and maybe our ears are even more sensitive to the internal noises as well. Last night as I was walking, I was consciously thinking about the crackling and starting to feel a bit myself upon swallowing. Once I did a light Valsalva and popped my ears, the crackling was completely gone and I couldn't recreate it for the rest of the walk. So there might be some residual fluid going in there and causing the crackling but I think a lot of it has to do with us be hypersensitive to it.

@MrC6688, do you still get the crackling??

 

[Lukee]

Hey guys. Sorry for my angry rant in previous post. I know the intention of this thread is to exchange ideas and experiences to help each other ultimately find a cure for our WHM induced tinnitus.

I had just gotten so angry last night about this whole Wim Hof experience that I needed to get it off my chest. With that said, I don't want to drag the forum down and do want to promote positivity here. We're all in this together and the last thing I want is for people to get turned off by seeing an author of a thread start to rant. More than anything, I want to find a cure for our tinnitus and leave the information up for other WHM tinnitus sufferers so many can be helped. That's my goal anyway.

Thanks for being a part of this. Your ideas and contributions have been awesome so far. Let's keep it up.

Don't worry about it man. I think we are all frustrated and I definitely have the same feelings towards Wim. I'm upset that 3-4 days of something that was supposed to be positive has created so much distress in my life and possibly forever. I agree that we should make our voices heard and it's not unreasonable to be upset. I was actually thinking of contacting the App Store and Google Play and they will pull the app knowing it's causing medical issues for users. But before going down that path I'd like to notify Wim and team and maybe there will be some discourse on how to remedy our problems. He has had many scientists study him and he has had many students. I know this isn't the first time he has encountered these problems, it's impossible. It's sad we have to threaten to take harsh action to get a response from this scammer but I'm certainly willing to do it.

On a side note, Mr C, do you feeling like over the last 7 months you have had improvements? Your ear pressure is gone, do you feel like your tinnitus is getting better? Most of the recovery stories seem to point towards 1-3 years of healing so wanted to know if you feel that you have some at least some recovery given you're the farthest in on here.