Tinnitus, The Way Some See It

[Michael Leigh]

If Lenire is a success with people with noise-induced tinnitus, how will you stand on your no headphone use?

From what I understand Lenire plays series of tones into the ear which is not the same as continuous music. Music has syncopation throughout its frequency range. Therefore, Bass, Midrange and Treble frequencies are constantly changing. This can irritate the cochlea in the inner ear as many people with Noise Induced Tinnitus have found.

I know someone that has Noise induced tinnitus and is using Lenire. This person has said their tinnitus has increased. Whether this is caused by the headphones or the fact that the auditory system is responding to treatment, I do not know. This person has decided to continue with the treatment for the duration advised by Lenire health professionals. This person has said, if the tinnitus increases too much they will stop using the device.

Sometimes symptoms get worse before they get better.

Michael

 

[John Mahan]

@Michael Leigh

If Lenire is a success with people with noise-induced tinnitus, how will you stand on your no headphone use?

It really doesn't matter where he stands with headphone use. He doesn't know what he is talking about.

He has communicated with countless people with NIT with spiking tinnitus who use headphones and he incorrectly blames headphones for spiking tinnitus with NIT. A false equivalence. Any scientist would debunk. Of those he has communicated with, no doubt a subset used headphones at high volume level which destroys hearing...just like putting your ear next to a loud speaker in a home stereo system which will kill hearing and nobody believes loud speakers are bad for hearing unless listening at heightened sound levels.

So Michael's position is a sham. Just to call him out and why I did. It needs to be understood the true cause of NIT which is dB level of sound exposure and time. Not headphone use. Can headphones be abused? Of course. That is the basis for the article I posted. All the time. The reason headphones are allowed to be sold to the public is they provide no harm when used properly.

 

[John Mahan]

From what I understand Lenire plays series of tones into the ear which is not the same as continuous music. Music has syncopation throughout its frequency range. Therefore, Bass, Midrange and Treble frequencies are constantly changing. This can irritate the cochlea in the inner ear as many people with Noise Induced Tinnitus have found.

I know someone that has Noise induced tinnitus and is using Lenire. This person has said their tinnitus has increased. Whether this is caused by the headphones or the fact that the auditory system is responding to treatment, I do not know. This person has decided to continue with the treatment for the duration advised by Lenire health professionals. This person has said, if the tinnitus increases too much they will stop using the device.

Sometimes symptoms get worse before they get better.

Michael

Complete BS. Michael's make believe world of music syncopation throughout its frequency range...separating that between headphones and 'any speaker or sound source'...including all musician's who play in a symphony orchestra... is pure fiction.

 

[Autumnly]

Though I often experience some degree of "cringe", I've come to believe that most of the people who write these things are actually well-intentioned. They want to try to share some positivity, or provide encouragement, or in some way help others on this forum see a way out, or somehow gain a confidence they can learn to cope or habituate.

Completely with this part!

While I often don't like their choice of words, I usually silently applaud them for doing what they think is right. Is there a touch of arrogance in some of these comments? I would say there is, but I think for the most part, this arrogance pales in comparison to their good intentions of doing what they can to share some of the optimism they have found for themselves. -- From what I've seen, unbounded arrogance is actually pretty rare on this forum.

But I have to disagree with this part. I had too many people ask me why I still suffer after several years and have been told too many times to count that "your brain must have tuned it out by now". And if you leave a comment saying that you're happy for them but that not everyone gets better, you usually don't get a nice reply. Don't get me wrong, there are posts by me that were simply too aggressive but even if you try to word it as nicely as possible, they usually really mean it when they say "it can get better for you (meaning everyone)". But who knows, maybe that's just my personal bias because I recently found another online tinnitus support forum that is purely pro-habituation and uses everything by Hubbard as their personal bible. And let's not forget all these well-meaning people and their well-meaning books about curing tinnitus.

 

[hm07]

Hi Michael. I'm new to tinnitus and am unsure how to navigate the site but was hoping to get some advice. If possible, some guidance would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[John Mahan]

Completely with this part!

But I have to disagree with this part. I had too many people ask me why I still suffer after several years and have been told too many times to count that "your brain must have tuned it out by now". And if you leave a comment saying that you're happy for them but that not everyone gets better, you usually don't get a nice reply. Don't get me wrong, there are posts by me that were simply too aggressive but even if you try to word it as nicely as possible, they usually really mean it when they say "it can get better for you (meaning everyone)". But who knows, maybe that's just my personal bias because I recently found another online tinnitus support forum that is purely pro-habituation and uses everything by Hubbard as their personal bible. And let's not forget all these well-meaning people and their well-meaning books about curing tinnitus.

Ultimately, it comes down to what people believe and people don't believe the same things. No different than Michael's headphone fantasy and his constant ill directed admonitions which have no basis in scientific fact.

Not everybody is going to habituate. People may not even agree on what habituation is. I am 3 years in. I accept my tinnitus on some level. Does it drive me crazy at times? Yes. Right now the tiger is satiated and not roaring as loud. It was pretty loud this morning when I woke up and to say I was habituated to this persistent noise would be inaccurate.

I could go ten or twenty years without so called total habituation for the simple reason...my tinnitus is Dr. Jekyll.

The biggest mistake I think people make is believing all tinnitus suffers are the same. Like them for example. Like all in the habituation camp which to me is silly. Or, gee why can't you acclimate to your tinnitus. Doesn't everybody? No because tinnitus can be extremely different...unbearable for some and completely benign and acceptable for others. I will say at times, mine moves into the unbearable range and it is just that, unbearable. Very difficult to cope with. Disruptive to my life. What keeps me going is hope that it will subside and it does...or has so far. But others, I believe they spend more time in the unbearable range and they have my profound sympathy. A prison of unimaginable pain and torment.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Hi Michael. I'm new to tinnitus and am unsure how to navigate the site but was hoping to get some advice. If possible, some guidance would be appreciated, thanks.

HI @hm07
I am not home at the moment. Please send me a PM giving details of your tinnitus, cause etc. I will PM later

All the best
Michael

 

[hm07]

Hey,

Thanks for quick response. And no worries haha take the time you need to.

Could you maybe PM with a short message or let me know how to do it?

Thanks.

 

[Michael Leigh]

But I have to disagree with this part. I had too many people ask me why I still suffer after several years and have been told too many times to count that "your brain must have tuned it out by now". And if you leave a comment saying that you're happy for them but that not everyone gets better, you usually don't get a nice reply. Don't get me wrong, there are posts by me that were simply too aggressive but even if you try to word it as nicely as possible, they usually really mean it when they say "it can get better for you (meaning everyone)". But who knows, maybe that's just my personal bias because I recently found another online tinnitus support forum that is purely pro-habituation and uses everything by Hubbard as their personal bible. And let's not forget all these well-meaning people and their well-meaning books about curing tinnitus.

Sorry to know the tinnitus is still giving you a difficult time @Autumnly It is good to have you aboard and please keep posting as it's always interesting to read what you have to say.

Take care and hope you start to feel better soon.
Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

Hey,

Thanks for quick response. And no worries haha take the time you need to.

Could you maybe PM with a short message or let me know how to do it?

Thanks.

@hm07

I have sent you a PM. I see you are a Londoner. I am too born and bred although now live in Brighton.

 

[JohnAdams]

You don't see tinnitus you hear it duh.

 

[Michael Leigh]

You don't see tinnitus you hear it duh.

I like it....

 

[JohnAdams]

I like it....

You like having tinnitus? That explains a lot.

 

[Michael Leigh]

You like having tinnitus? That explains a lot.

Not at all. I think there is some misunderstanding between us. When you wrote: You don't see tinnitus you hear it. I thought you were referring to my comment to: hm07, when I said to him: I see you are a Londoner....

 

[JohnAdams]

Not at all. I think there is some misunderstanding between us. When you wrote: You don't see tinnitus you hear it. I thought you were referring to my comment to: hm07, when I said to him: I see you are a Londoner....

Read it again, this time, without tinnitus.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Read it again, this time, without tinnitus.

Sorry I do not understand what you mean....

 

[JohnAdams]

Sorry I do not understand what you mean....

What what means?

 

[Michael Leigh]

What what means?

I think it's best we forget it and move on....
Take care...

 

[JohnAdams]

I think it's best we forget it and move on....
Take care...

Ok.

 

[jay777]

What what means?

Why what why.

 

[Renee W]

Hi Michael,

I'm sorry for bothering you again. Basically I'm dealing with tinnitus that creates a high pitch whistle that overlays some machine noises (AC, fans, driving in a car, etc.) and wind. It's very intrusive. I'm wondering if I can beat this part of my tinnitus with TRT? I read some of your posts and you mentioned that you had reactive tinnitus (or hyperacusis). Did you also experience the whistle noise over similar sounds? If so, did that go away after TRT? Also, did you see any drop in the volume, pitch, and/or sharpness of your tinnitus after TRT? Oh and one more bit about my hearing, sounds do not seem too loud or cause ear pain...

Thank you,
Renee

 

[Michael Leigh]

Hi Michael,

I'm sorry for bothering you again. Basically I'm dealing with tinnitus that creates a high pitch whistle that overlays some machine noises (AC, fans, driving in a car, etc.) and wind. It's very intrusive. I'm wondering if I can beat this part of my tinnitus with TRT? I read some of your posts and you mentioned that you had reactive tinnitus (or hyperacusis). Did you also experience the whistle noise over similar sounds? If so, did that go away after TRT? Also, did you see any drop in the volume, pitch, and/or sharpness of your tinnitus after TRT? Oh and one more bit about my hearing, sounds do not seem too loud or cause ear pain...

Thank you,
Renee

HI @Renee W

You can contact me anytime so don't think you are bothering me. Please read my posts on TRT which I will paste below, with additional links. They will answer a lot of your questions and concerns. Before you start any tinnitus treatment including TRT, I think it's important to know what has caused it? Something usually causes tinnitus and the most common cause, is exposure to loud noise. Typically, it is headphones use or being exposed to other forms of loud sounds.

TRT involves counselling and wearing white noise generators, more is explained in the links below. TRT and CBT can help reduce the perception/level of the tinnitus even though some people do not believe this. Good quality counselling with a Hearing Therapist or Audiologist that specialises in tinnitus and hyperacusis management and treatment, helps remove and demystify the negative thinking that is often associated with something that finds tinnitus problematic. This takes time and treatment can take up to 18 months.

Counselling helps a person to have a more positive outlook on life and tinnitus. Over time the tinnitus is pushed further into the background making it less noticeable. In answer to your question, yes, tinnitus treatment TRT in particular can help reduce the level of the tinnitus. Please understand, whatever tinnitus treatment a person has the treatment cannot do everything. The patient has to try and help themselves. By this I mean to learn and adopt a more: positive mental attitude/ thinking. A good starting point to start engaging in things that you like to do - this is the beginning of reinforcing positive thinking. Over time positivity replaces negativity and life becomes easier and less problematic The tinnitus recedes more into the background as the mind focuses on it less.

Please take your time and read all the posts in the links below. If you have already read some then I advise that you read them again. Then again, this helps to reinforce positive thinking. Tinnitus is 90% mental. When I say this a lot of people misinterpret what I mean. I do not mean the tinnitus or the level of the noise can be controlled by thought alone. Tinnitus is intrinsically linked to our mental and emotional wellbeing. Therefore, stress makes tinnitus worse and tinnitus makes stress worse. Stress has to be managed and kept under control and not allowed to become all consuming, as one can find themselves slipping into a vortex of confusion and discontent. It is for this reason positivity even in our downtimes should maintained. I am not saying never to feel negative about tinnitus but it mustn't be allowed to overwhelm us. This can be achieved and it's not something that happens overnight. More is explained in the links below. If you have a printer, I suggest that you print them. Take your time and read each one and refer to the articles often.

All the best
Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/new-to-tinnitus-what-to-do.12558/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-a-personal-view.18668/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/hyperacusis-as-i-see-it.19174/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/acquiring-a-positive-mindset.23969/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-and-the-negative-mindset.23705/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/the-habituation-process.20767/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/is-positivity-important.23150/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-the-way-some-see-it.36110/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-and-negative-counselling.26669/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/the-complexities-of-tinnitus-and-hyperacusis.25733/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/i-would-rather-be-happy-than-right.12084/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/trt-as-i-see-it.19555/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/what-happens-in-trt-sessions.18195/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/what-is-trt-and-when-should-it-be-started.19024/

 

[Renee W]

Hi Michael,

Thank you for the info! I've had tinnitus now for 14 months. I'm not sure how it was caused. I did have a history of listening to music through headphones but not the year prior to developing tinnitus. I was also never the concert goer type. The week I got tinnitus I was in my 3rd trimester of pregnancy and was told we may lose the baby. So I was very stressed during this time. They also gave me a steroid injection in the hip region, not the ear (to mature the baby's lungs) the day before the tinnitus started. I also had jaw physical therapy for the first time the day the tinnitus started. I also took a small amount of pepcid AC for acid reflux. So difficult to say it if was past noise exposure, anxiety, steroid shot, pepcid, or jaw physical therapy.

My main complaint is the reactiveness of the tinnitus. I can hear high pitch squeaks each second. If I go into a quiet room, it's very quiet but so high pitch it's still intrusive. These squeaks overlay other sounds. I would think if the squeaks are quiet in a quiet room they should at least be masked by other noises? I also get a high pitch whistle noise that overlays machine noises and wind. I best relate it to the sound of a dentist's drill, only more high pitch.

I have seen an specialized audiologist for TRT and actually have the devices. I tried it out for 6 weeks starting in September, but the high pitch squeaks made it unbearable. I decided to give it a go as of last Monday again. Just trying to wear them even with the high pitch squeaks.

What I would like to know specifically is if you experienced any of the same tinnitus noises as me? Squeaks or the whistle overlay noise above machine noises? If so, did these go away after TRT?

Thank you again for your time and information,
Renee

 

[Michael Leigh]

What I would like to know specifically is if you experienced any of the same tinnitus noises as me? Squeaks or the whistle overlay noise above machine noises? If so, did these go away after TRT?

HI @Renee W

Tinnitus can be very complex and each person will experience it differently and respond to treatment differently. I have had TRT twice and the full treatment. I first had it in 1996 for 2 years. This required wearing white noise generators for 8 to 10hrs a day and having regular counselling with my hearing therapist. The hyperacusis, sensitivity to sound completely cured in 2 years. The tinnitus reduced to a very low level that I hardly heard it.

In 2008 I had a 2nd noise trauma. Please read about this in my post: My experience with tinnitus in the link below. I had TRT for 2 years, although it helped it wasn't as successful as the first time. Fortunately, my hyperacusis did not return. However, it took a total of 4 years for me to habituate to my tinnitus. It has changed to what it was prior to 2008 as you will read in my post below.

I cannot say what results you will achieve with your TRT treatment but I hope you are having counselling with your therapist. I advise that you wear your White noise generators for just 1 or 2 hrs. Keep their volume below the tinnitus. After 1 or 2hrs wearing time take them off for the same duration to give your ears a rest. Slowly build up the wearing time until you reach 8hrs a day or whatever your therapist advises.

As I have mentioned in my posts, try to avoid staying in quiet rooms and surroundings especially at night. Use low level sound enrichment. Remember to set the volume of your white noise generators below the tinnitus, they must not mask the tinnitus.

All the best
Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/my-experience-with-tinnitus.12076/

 

[Renee W]

Hi Michael, I'm reading through your threads. You included a lot of great information. I will continue reading them. Thank you! I can't seem to get out of this vicious cycle of anxiety, doom and gloom, and wanting to commit suicide. It's really sad because I look at my daughter and feel like her life would be so much better if I was in a better place. I constantly go back to how it started and wonder why I had to get it a week before giving birth. It makes me so mad, sad, and confused all at the same time. I have tried antidepressants and benzos. The antidepressants make the tinnitus worse and the benzos I couldn't take long term. I so wish things were different and that TRT also didn't have to be so hard with the high pitch squeaks, but I do like your suggestion of taking breaks. Maybe that will help. I'm also wondering if EMFs have played a role as the tinnitus started after I updated my cell phone and had a new wifi unit placed in our home???

Does it sound like I have hyperacusis even though I am not bothered by loud noise? Did you use pink noise for TRT?

 

[Bartoli]

Tinnitus, the way some see it.​

Mention tinnitus to a friend, relative or co-worker and you might be asked what is that? After explaining its symptoms you're likely to hear, they've experienced it after a night clubbing but it always goes away. The more enlightened will say, they have it or know someone with the condition who's learnt to live their life without any problems at all. Many people like to give the impression they are as informed and knowledgeable as the next person especially on health issues. Often quick to dismiss or downplay an ailment, as a minor because life is just too short and wonderful, to be bogged down with matters that bear little or no significance to them.

This cavalier approach to tinnitus can be difficult and at times frustrating for the newbie to comprehend, when they feel their whole life has been turned upside down and don't know where to turn to for help. To be on the receiving end of such comments can make one think why bother to start such a conversation. I experienced this twenty three years ago when I first got tinnitus. Veterans and those seasoned to it are all too aware of the blatant disregard and lack of understanding that some people have towards tinnitus, because they have no idea how it can seriously affect a person's life when it is severe.

Tinnitus is very common and many people are able to live their life doing everything that they want to without it causing too much of a problem. However, it comes in different forms and levels of severity and no two people will experience it the same. Only when it becomes severe and this level of intensity is sustained does it start to affect a person's quality of life and their mental and emotional wellbeing. Under these circumstances a person will begin to understand how ruthless and unforgiving tinnitus can be.

Unfortunately, the attitudes of some people I have described above are not unique to those with very mild tinnitus or anyone that has had it fleetingly after a night clubbing. Some people at tinnitus forums that once had it severe and habituated after a few months, are full of such arrogance it's beyond belief and say, tinnitus is nothing everyone can habituate. Is it any wonder then some health professionals who may not say it but one might feel they have this approach.

Michael

Thanks for putting this under words so extensively. It might be that some people with severe tinnitus aren't very bothered by it, but we can hardly expect them to suffer if they just don't think it's that big of a deal. I see this particular example of the "severe, don't care"-crowd come up quite often on the forum and I must say while it ups my mood knowing that this can be achieved I also find myself wondering if there actually is such a thing...

We can only self-report on this condition, so it's impossible to know what someone else's "severe" means.

We can't even compare sounds we made in an audio program. The other day someone posted something and his tinnitus was around 14-16 kHz. I heard almost nothing because well, I don't hear up to those frequencies anymore. If I wouldn't know any better I would shrug it off saying "That's not so bad..."

So I wonder. Is there really such a thing as someone with loud tinnitus that isn't bothered or do they overestimate their sound?

 

[Michael Leigh]

So I wonder. Is there really such a thing as someone with loud tinnitus that isn't bothered or do they overestimate their sound?

@Bartoli

Some people believe if they are able to get the sound level of their tinnitus measured in terms of khz, (kilohertz) that this will give them and others an indication how severe it is and what they are enduring. I completely understand their reasons for wanting to know this. Twenty four years ago when I was first seen at ENT, after having my hearing tested my doctor was able to tell me the sound level of my tinnitus in kilohertz. I forget the figure but I was quite impressed with the graph print out and figures.

I am more knowledgeable about tinnitus now and I'm here to tell you, that it doesn't matter in the slightest what the level of the tinnitus is in terms of khz, because that really isn't of much importance. It is the way the tinnitus affects a person's mental and emotional wellbeing. A person can have mild tinnitus and find it more troublesome and debilitating than someone that has it quite intrusive. Tinnitus is something personal and unique to each individual and many things can affect it. The most important thing when measuring tinnitus if one wants to use this term is stress.

Stress is one of the main things that affects tinnitus. As I keep saying tinnitus is 90% mental, because it is intrinsically linked to our mental and emotional wellbeing. Therefore, a person's stress and anxiety should be kept as low as possible. Stress makes tinnitus worse and tinnitus makes stress worse. To manage it sometimes medication in the form of antidepressants can be very helpful. People often find when stress is reduced the tinnitus reduces too. The opposite occurs when stress is increased and not kept under control.

Michael

 

[Lane]

I'm also wondering if EMFs have played a role as the tinnitus started after I updated my cell phone and had a new wifi unit placed in our home???

@Renee W -- I think you may be on to something there. One of the most common "side effects" of various kinds of EMFs is tinnitus. We opted out of a smart meter on our home, and our neighbor has allowed us to put an EMF shield over his, as it's only a few feet from our kitchen. We also turn the electricity off to the bedrooms at night, as well as using grounding pads on our laptops.

When using my laptop, I always use it on battery mode, as that alone cuts down EMFs by about 70%. I also lower the CPU usage a bit to have it use less current. There are a lot of other protective things people can use if they're sensitive to EMFs. There's a thread on this forum by a guy who determined his tinnitus came from his smart meter. Another guy said he got it from his new truck with all the Wifi stuff in it. This stuff can and does cause a lot of havoc, including the misery of tinnitus.

 

[bobvann]

@Renee W -- I think you may be on to something there. One of the most common "side effects" of various kinds of EMFs is tinnitus. We opted out of a smart meter on our home, and our neighbor has allowed us to put an EMF shield over his, as it's only a few feet from our kitchen. We also turn the electricity off to the bedrooms at night, as well as using grounding pads on our laptops.

When using my laptop, I always use it on battery mode, as that alone cuts down EMFs by about 70%. I also lower the CPU usage a bit to have it use less current. There are a lot of other protective things people can use if they're sensitive to EMFs. There's a thread on this forum by a guy who determined his tinnitus came from his smart meter. Another guy said he got it from his new truck with all the Wifi stuff in it. This stuff can and does cause a lot of havoc, including the misery of tinnitus.

Tinnitus conspiracy theories.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Does it sound like I have hyperacusis even though I am not bothered by loud noise? Did you use pink noise for TRT?

HI @Renee W

Above, @Lane has raised some interesting points in his post on EMF and advise that you take a look.

I can't seem to get out of this vicious cycle of anxiety, doom and gloom, and wanting to commit suicide. It's really sad because I look at my daughter and feel like her life would be so much better if I was in a better place

You will probably gather from reading my posts, how much importance I put upon keeping stress and anxiety levels as low as possible. This is particularly important for someone with tinnitus. This is the reason I put a lot of emphasis on having a positive mindset. You need to try and get your stress and anxiety levels under control. Antidepressants can make tinnitus more intrusive for some people but after a while, this usually reduces or changing to another type. You could also explore herbal antidepressant such as St John's Wort, which should not increase your tinnitus. Have a word with your Dr before trying. St John's Wort needs to be taken for at least 6 weeks to build up in the body. I have taken it periodically and have no problems with it.

Does it sound like I have hyperacusis even though I am not bothered by loud noise? Did you use pink noise for TRT?

You may have some oversensitivity to your auditory system that may indicate hyperacusis. Hyperacusis, is usually a result of tinnitus caused by noise trauma known as noise induced tinnitus. However, you have said that you don't believe your tinnitus is noise induced. Please try using the white noise generators again in the manner that I have described. Wear for just 1 or 2hrs, then take them off or 1 or 2hrs. Wear them for another 1 or 2hrs and so on and how you progress. Slowly increase the wearing time.

I can select white or pink noise on my white noise generators. There is not a lot of difference between the two. If I chose to be pernickety, I would say Pink noise sounds slightly softer and smoother through the WNGs but there's honestly not a lot of difference.

Michael