Tinnitus, The Way Some See It

[Bartoli]

@Bartoli

Some people believe if they are able to get the sound level of their tinnitus measured in terms of khz, (kilohertz) that this will give them and others an indication how severe it is and what they are enduring. I completely understand their reasons for wanting to know this. Twenty four years ago when I was first seen at ENT, after having my hearing tested my doctor was able to tell me the sound level of my tinnitus in kilohertz. I forget the figure but I was quite impressed with the graph print out and figures.

I am more knowledgeable about tinnitus now and I'm here to tell you, that it doesn't matter in the slightest what the level of the tinnitus is in terms of khz, because that really isn't of much importance. It is the way the tinnitus affects a person's mental and emotional wellbeing. A person can have mild tinnitus and find it more troublesome and debilitating than someone that has it quite intrusive. Tinnitus is something personal and unique to each individual and many things can affect it. The most important thing when measuring tinnitus if one wants to use this term is stress.

Stress is one of the main things that affects tinnitus. As I keep saying tinnitus is 90% mental, because it is intrinsically linked to our mental and emotional wellbeing. Therefore, a person's stress and anxiety should be kept as low as possible. Stress makes tinnitus worse and tinnitus makes stress worse. To manage it sometimes medication in the form of antidepressants can be very helpful. People often find when stress is reduced the tinnitus reduces too. The opposite occurs when stress is increased and not kept under control.

Michael

I believe you confounded kHz and dB. The tinnitus loudness level match would be in dB. The pitch in Hertz or kiloHertz. But I'm with you in that it bears little value in comparing. The opposite is also false, loudness does matter to a degree, as does pitch, as do other factors such as emotional state and coping skills.

In my opinion, the loudness definitely matters to a significant degree. If it's quieter one doesn't need to cope quite as much. I'm sure you must be able to relate as you have stated your tinnitus has different intensities. Surely the difference between mild and severe doesn't come down to just emotional response?

 

[Michael Leigh]

I believe you confounded kHz and dB. The tinnitus loudness level match would be in dB. The pitch in Hertz or kiloHertz. But I'm with you in that it bears little value in comparing. The opposite is also false, loudness does matter to a degree, as does pitch, as do other factors such as emotional state and coping skills.

In my opinion, the loudness definitely matters to a significant degree. If it's quieter one doesn't need to cope quite as much. I'm sure you must be able to relate as you have stated your tinnitus has different intensities. Surely the difference between mild and severe doesn't come down to just emotional response?

Of course the loudness of the tinnitus matters because this does have a bearing on how it affects a person. However, the importance that some people put on wanting to know how loud their tinnitus is and to be discussing it in forums to me seems a total waste of time. One should be concentrating on how to adopt a more positive mental attitude. This can be achieved by following the advice in my posts and posts written by other members of this forum. Anyone that has been seasoned to tinnitus for a while or is a veteran such as myself knows this.

I wish you well
Michael

 

[Renee W]

A couple more follow up questions, Michael. How long of using TRT did you notice an improvement in your hyperacusis? Also, I read in one of your posts about the Tiex device and that you wear it two times a day. How long do you wear the device each time?

 

[Michael Leigh]

A couple more follow up questions, Michael. How long of using TRT did you notice an improvement in your hyperacusis?

HI @Renee W

My hyperacusis was extremely severe. I couldn't stand the sound of kitchen plates and cutlery being washed in the sink. When in conversation with anyone I had to politely ask can they please lower their voice as my ears would hurt a lot. This was around 23 years ago. It took 2 full years of using white noise generators 8 to 10hrs a day to cure it. I started noticing improvement at around 3 months of using the WNG but it was a gradual process. I am still completely cured of hyperacusis. Even after my 2nd noise trauma in 2008 which resulted in 4 years to habituate and included 2 years of TRT with counselling, my hyperacusis did not return.

I read in one of your posts about the Tiex device and that you wear it two times a day. How long do you wear the device each time?

My 2nd noise trauma in 2008 I found difficult to cope with and stretched my resolve and positivity to the limited on many occasions. I don't know what I would have done without my previous years experience with tinnitus to draw on. In 2011 I happened to be surfing the Internet and not looking for anything in particular just browsing websites - my tinnitus was still very problematic and had large fluctuations in Intensity on a daily basis. No two days were the same. Therefore, it made habituation difficult.

I don't know what happened but I somehow landed on the Tiex website. I read the product information, that it could be purchased out-right or rented on a trial basis for 4 months and if there was no improvement in the tinnitus it could be returned for a partial refund. I was desperate and prepared to try anything. I done some research where some people had found it helpful. I sent off for it and used it twice a day for 30 minutes, morning and evening. It did make my tinnitus increase periodically and this is mentioned on the website, and is an indication that the treatment is working. After 4 months I noticed no improvement in my tinnitus. I felt disappointed but I am someone that does not give up easily. I persisted and after 6 months of use I began to notice a small amount of improvement in the tinnitus. The inventor mentions if Tiex is going to work improvements will be noticed within 4 months. If there is no improvement using it for a longer period it is doubtful Tiex will work for you.

I am still using it 8 years on. Twice a day 30mins morning and 30mins evening. There is no sound through the headphones. I have tried reducing the use of Tiex and stopping it all together as recommended by the inventor after 4 months. Whenever I reduce usage or stop using Tiex my tinnitus gradually becomes more intrusive.

Those that are sceptical about Tiex and believe it is a scam, snake oil etc I am not going to argue with. All I know is that it helps me. I use white noise generators whenever I feel the need. I take clonazepam approximately once or twice a month for around 1 or 2 days. I will use whatever is available to help me have a better quality of life with tinnitus because I know how debilitating this condition can be and the depths that it can take a person to and make them want to cause their own demise.

Hope this helps.
Michael.

 

[Renee W]

Yes all your info is extremely helpful. I'm seeing a therapist right now but she doesn't have tinnitus and her method for helping me not fear the noise isn't working. I noticed you went to a hearing therapist. I can't seem to find any in my area. Is this the same as a CBT therapist? If not, can a CBT therapist be just as effective even if they don't have tinnitus? If you don't mind, what was the area of focus in your therapy sessions that helped you the most in lessening your fear/negative thinking around the tinnitus? I just don't see how a therapist can help if they don't understand what we're going through!

 

[bobvann]

@Renee W -- I

When using my laptop, I always use it on battery mode, as that alone cuts down EMFs by about 70%.

This kinds of reminds of of Chuck on Better Call Saul

 

[fishbone]

Yes all your info is extremely helpful. I'm seeing a therapist right now but she doesn't have tinnitus and her method for helping me not fear the noise isn't working. I noticed you went to a hearing therapist. I can't seem to find any in my area. Is this the same as a CBT therapist? If not, can a CBT therapist be just as effective even if they don't have tinnitus? If you don't mind, what was the area of focus in your therapy sessions that helped you the most in lessening your fear/negative thinking around the tinnitus? I just don't see how a therapist can help if they don't understand what we're going through!

My approach is like this, If I want to talk to someone about tinnitus, I make sure they understand what is going on. Not all therapists and counselors will have tinnitus. I educate them on tinnitus and just how horrible and draining it can be. I may show them a video or an article. I will describe what it feels like to live with it. I drill it into their mind what struggle we face. Eventually they start to get the message that this is a horrible ordeal and they are LUCKY to not deal with it.

Fearing the noise,ringing is natural. Don't be too hard on yourself. The fear of hearing the ringing and it possibly getting louder is normal and almost everyone has had it. I want to say that NOT every noise you hear is bad, not all noises can cause issues. There are some noises and situations that need to be avoided, but not everything is bad.

I have intrusive horrible tinnitus and at times I want to say hi to my friends at the gym and then someone will drop their weights. I am not even close to the person dropping the weights but my tinnitus mind will say "Geez they are dropping the weights again". It's scary and even I feel it. It's a normal reaction for us, because we want to not make our ears worst.

The only way to stop the fear, is to condition your self and your mind that not everything will make your tinnitus worst. Always protect your ears, but don't let your mind think, that all noises are bad. This type of conditioning and thinking takes time. Talking it out with someone, that cares for you and understand your situation can be quite helpful.

my case with beyond severe T and horrible hearing loss is, because I never had TT when I first got tinnitus. I was listening to music via headphones quite a bit, even when I first got tinnitus and my ears suffered. My hearing got really bad.My tinnitus went through mild, moderate, to beyond severe due to decades of LOUD music/sound exposure and became what it is today.

I learned a lot and that's why I come here to share my experiences.

Do know that you are never alone, we are all in the same boat living with tinnitus.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Yes all your info is extremely helpful. I'm seeing a therapist right now but she doesn't have tinnitus and her method for helping me not fear the noise isn't working. I noticed you went to a hearing therapist. I can't seem to find any in my area. Is this the same as a CBT therapist? If not, can a CBT therapist be just as effective even if they don't have tinnitus? If you don't mind, what was the area of focus in your therapy sessions that helped you the most in lessening your fear/negative thinking around the tinnitus? I just don't see how a therapist can help if they don't understand what we're going through!

@Renee W

You have asked some interesting questions, which I like and hope the information I give will be helpful. Just having someone to talk to about your tinnitus who is a therapist and therefore skilled in listening to people will be helpful.

However, to give high-quality tinnitus counselling, I believe the Therapist, Counsellor, Audiologist or Hearing Therapist should have tinnitus and quite a lot of these health professional do, who specialise in treating tinnitus patients with counselling . They were either born with tinnitus or acquired it at some time in their life. I have mentioned this in some of my posts about TRT.

Someone who has tinnitus will have a better understanding of the way it affects a person's mental and emotional wellbeing. They will be able help remove and demystify a lot of the negativity that surrounds tinnitus and thus, help the patient to feel more positive about tinnitus and life. Some people believe having tinnitus is a life of impending doom and gloom which is often not the case. Tinnitus is a very common condition and many people habituate to it with time. Sometimes specialist treatment is required which comes in the form of: counselling, sound therapy and medication. Any one of these treatments or combination can help a person to cope better with tinnitus.

I live in the UK and saw a Hearing Therapist for counselling when I was having TRT treatment. She was born with tinnitus. She also practices CBT with tinnitus patients. I have corresponded with people from outside of the UK and many tell they have never heard of Hearing Therapist. I no longer see my Hearing Therapist but do have an Audiologist, who has fitted me with White Noise Generators - these are digital and need to be set-up on a computer. Some Audiologists in the UK practice TRT and CBT with tinnitus patients. Some Tinnitus Talk members that live in the UK, have told me they see an Audiologist for: TRT, CBT, Hyperacusis treatment using white noise generators. Treatment for phonophobia and Misophonia.

If you don't mind, what was the area of focus in your therapy sessions that helped you the most in lessening your fear/negative thinking around the tinnitus? I just don't see how a therapist can help if they don't understand what we're going through!

The answer to your question you will find in my posts about TRT which you have the links to. You will also find similar answers in my posts: Acquiring a positive mindset/ Tinnitus and the Negative mindset/ The habituation process/ Tinnitus, and the way some people see it. These posts and others that I have written are all a form of tinnitus counselling. If you read them regularly or whenever you feel the need, they will help reinforce positive thinking. Although not the same as having a face-to-face talk with tinnitus counsellor, they can help keep you on track.

Although I have said I believe it's best to have counselling with someone that has the condition, it is not absolutely necessary. Someone that has tinnitus and is giving counselling, will have a better understanding of the condition but they can only give you advice and steer you in the right direction and discussing with you about your life. This is what my Hearing Therapist talked-over with me. The things that I like to do and engage in. As I have mentioned in my posts. A lot of people new to tinnitus find they lose interest in the things they like to do, as their brain has now become preoccupied with the sound of tinnitus which is something strange and new. This can be daunting sometimes quite frightening but with time, the brain gets used to the tinnitus and no longer sees it has a threat. Of course each person is different and the length of time it will take for a person to habituate will be unique to them. Some people do have a lot of difficulty habituating some may never habituate and there are various reasons for this. However, the facts are many people do learn to live with tinnitus and are able to carrying on doing everything that they want to do in their life.

Counselling can certainly help but it can't do it all. The patient has to help themselves by reinforcing positivity. My posts in the links that I have given you will help you to do this. Make a conscious effort to engage in the things you like to do. It may be difficult at first but don't give up. Take each day one day at a time and slowly you will improve and eventually succeed.

Michael​

 

[bobvann]

@Renee W
Counselling can certainly help but it can't do it all. The patient has to help themselves by reinforcing positivity. My posts in the links that I have given you will help you to do this. Make a conscious effort to engage in the things you like to do. It may be difficult at first but don't give up. Take each day one day at a time and slowly you will improve and eventually succeed.

Michael​

This goes to kind of blaming the patient for not being "positive" enough if they keep struggling. As far as keeping the things I like doing one is drumming which causes spikes. As you have mentioned hearing protection is at times useless since low frequencies still vibrate through bone. Should I keep on playing beating my chest just to say F you tinnitus?

I am just debating and is not meant it as adversarial. I have been given this kind of advice for approx 16 months and really has yet to resolve anything. I am truly curious and here to learn. I did like your responses to WNGs and learned more what they are about.

 

[Renee W]

Have you thought about counseling others? I think you would be great!

 

[bobvann]

Have you thought about counseling others? I think you would be great!

I think that's what he does in his links. He certainly seems to want to help

 

[Michael Leigh]

Have you thought about counseling others? I think you would be great!

@Renee W

Thank you for your kind comments Renee. I first started counselling people with tinnitus when I was a member of the BTA (British Tinnitus Association) Although I am no longer a member of that organisation, I regularly counsel people with tinnitus that wish to contact me. I have counselled some tinnitus talk members here in the UK, Europe and USA. I do this by telephone and email. I had three telephone conversations with the late Tinnitus Talk member Allan1967. I wish I was able to do more for him sadly I couldn't.

If you have anymore questions please ask and I will try to help.
Take care
Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

This goes to kind of blaming the patient for not being "positive" enough if they keep struggling. As far as keeping the things I like doing one is drumming which causes spikes. As you have mentioned hearing protection is at times useless since low frequencies still vibrate through bone. Should I keep on playing beating my chest just to say F you tinnitus?

I am just debating and is not meant it as adversarial. I have been given this kind of advice for approx 16 months and really has yet to resolve anything. I am truly curious and here to learn. I did like your responses to WNGs and learned more what they are about.

@bobvann

You do have a point bobvann but the facts as I see it are this: Tinnitus counselling can be very helpful and for this reason, it can require a long drawn out process lasting up to 2 years in some cases particularly with TRT (Tinnitus Retraining Therapy) This treatment is exactly what it says, a gradual retraining of the mind or the way a person thinks about their tinnitus. However, it cannot do everything because it also requires positive input from the patient. Sometimes medication is also needed in the form of antidepressant.

One has to remember the onset of tinnitus and can daunting and quite frightening for some people. This needs time to settle down. For this reason long term treatments such as TRT and CBT in my opinion, shouldn't be started too soon. I recommend a period of 4 to 6 months after tinnitus onset. If a person starts these treatments or any other forms of counselling with the attitude: Nothing can be done, then most likely they will not respond to treatment and improve.

It is for this reason I suggest anyone starting tinnitus treatment to stay away from tinnitus forums. The main reason some people that attend these forums have a total negative mindset. They do not believe treatments such as TRT, CBT will help with tinnitus. They do not believe in habituation. Some try their utmost best to convince people they are right which is not the case. Unfortunately, people new to tinnitus and seeking help might happen to read these negative posts. They are already going through a difficult time with their tinnitus, and therefore they can easily be influenced into thinking no tinnitus treatment will be effective. This can be very damaging.

Your tinnitus was a result of an Acoustic trauma also known as Noise induced tinnitus. My advice to you is to face some truths. Loud sounds/noise and tinnitus do not do well together. Therefore, I advise you to think carefully about continuing to play drums, as you risk your tinnitus getting worse. I also advise you not to use headphones even at low volume. If you were to have TRT or CBT or any other type of tinnitus treatment and continue to play drums and use headphones, it is my belief these treatments will not be effective and your tinnitus is likely to get worse.

I am sorry to sound so sobering but one has to think carefully when they have noise induced tinnitus. This type of tinnitus can be very debilitating when it is severe. It must be respected as it can be ruthless and very unforgiving if you are not careful.

Michael

 

[bobvann]

@bobvann

You do have a point bobvann but the facts as I see it are this: Tinnitus counselling can be very helpful and for this reason, it can require a long drawn out process lasting up to 2 years in some cases particularly with TRT (Tinnitus Retraining Therapy) This treatment is exactly what it says, a gradual retraining of the mind or the way a person thinks about their tinnitus. However, it cannot do everything because it also requires positive input from the patient. Sometimes medication is also needed in the form of antidepressant.

One has to remember the onset of tinnitus and can daunting and quite frightening for some people. This needs time to settle down. For this reason long term treatments such as TRT and CBT in my opinion, shouldn't be started too soon. I recommend a period of 4 to 6 months after tinnitus onset. If a person starts these treatments or any other forms of counselling with the attitude: Nothing can be done, then most likely they will not respond to treatment and improve.

It is for this reason I suggest anyone starting tinnitus treatment to stay away from tinnitus forums. The main reason some people that attend these forums have a total negative mindset. They do not believe treatments such as TRT, CBT will help with tinnitus. They do not believe in habituation. Some try their utmost best to convince people they are right which is not the case. Unfortunately, people new to tinnitus and seeking help might happen to read these negative posts. They are already going through a difficult time with their tinnitus, and therefore they can easily be influenced into thinking no tinnitus treatment will be effective. This can be very damaging.

Your tinnitus was a result of an Acoustic trauma also known as Noise induced tinnitus. My advice to you is to face some truths. Loud sounds/noise and tinnitus do not do well together. Therefore, I advise you to think carefully about continuing to play drums, as you risk your tinnitus getting worse. I also advise you not to use headphones even at low volume. If you were to have TRT or CBT or any other type of tinnitus treatment and continue to play drums and use headphones, it is my belief these treatments will not be effective and your tinnitus is likely to get worse.

I am sorry to sound so sobering but one has to think carefully when they have noise induced tinnitus. This type of tinnitus can be very debilitating when it is severe. It must be respected as it can be ruthless and very unforgiving if you are not careful.

Michael

A sobering and honest opinion, thank you. Whereas I was being told before to keep playing and to live life as if I don't have tinnitus. That it was simply the "fear" that had to be vanquished. I still own them but they are sitting in their cases. I realize I may need to part with them hence why I took up the guitar. It is very intrusive and is really hard some days. I did do CBT last year and mentioned my TRT failed attempts. I may be revisiting it or at least try some WNG's. I don't do headphone. I use a bluetooth speaker and my audio system at home at a reasonable volume.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I was being told before to keep playing and to live life as if I don't have tinnitus.

Whoever told you to continue playing drums and live life as if you don't have tinnitus. I am telling you that person knows nothing about Noise induced tinnitus. If you follow this wrong advice you will be sorry that I assure you. A while back someone with NIT contacted me who was advised by her Audiologist, to use headphones at low volume as it would help treat her hyperaucusis. This woman was in tears because her tinnitus increased and she was in torment. Fortunately with time the tinnitus calmed down.

Michael

 

[bobvann]

Whoever told you to continue playing drums and live life as if you don't have tinnitus. I am telling you that person knows nothing about Noise induced tinnitus. If you follow this wrong advice you will be sorry that I assure you. A while back someone with NIT contacted me who was advised by her Audiologist, to use headphones at low volume as it would help treat her hyperaucusis. This woman was in tears because her tinnitus increased and she was in torment. Fortunately with time the tinnitus calmed down.

Michael

I agree. By the reaction I get following it was captain obvious. I stopped last July altogether. I tried for less then 10 minutes a month back and got the reaction so it was the end of that. I am not stupid. I totally get it. Keep in mind I also got a reaction when I tried playing white noise through Widex hearing aids as part of TRT. Again when it drove me to tears I knew better than to push it. I realize the advice you give to do it for bits at time to build up. If and when I revisit WNG's that's what I will try. Then again if it creates more of a reaction I may need to forgo that as well.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I also got a reaction when I tried playing white noise through Widex hearing aids as part of TRT. Again when it drove me to tears I knew better than to push it. I realize the advice you give to do it for bits at time to build up. If and when I revisit WNG's that's what I will try. Then again if it creates more of a reaction I may need to forgo that as well.

HI @bobvann

Since you have had an adverse reaction to the WNGs your ears are over sensitive but I believe this can be corrected with time. I suggest you try the following and hopefully you will be able to use the WNGs without any problems:

Start using low level sound enrichment during the day and especially at night. It is my belief, that once your ears and auditory system become accustomed to sound enrichment, they will be less sensitive. Hopefully this will make the transition to using white noise generators easier and without causing irritation and the hyperacusis can be treated.

I usually recommend a sound machine made by the company "Sound Oasis" placed by the beside. Model S-650 is popular. Some people download nature sounds on their mobile phone and this is quite adequate, providing it is blue-toothed to an external speaker or plugged into a docking station with speakers. You need good quality sound enrichment. Therefore I do not recommend using a mobile phone and relying on its internal speaker. Set the sound slightly below the tinnitus or at a level where it is not drawing attention to itself and can easily be ignored. It takes time to get used to using sound enrichment at least 6 weeks. The purpose is not to enable to sleep but to help desensitise your auditory system and help stop the brain from increasing its internal gain when it hears silence in a quiet room. When the brain increases its internal gain (background activity) the tinnitus is also increased. This can make it more intrusive.

During the day try using sound enrichment whenever possible but keep it at a low level so it is not masking or covering up the tinnitus. You can use classical music, nature sounds or something of your choice. I don't recommend using music for sound enrichment at night as music tends to draw attention to itself in quiet surroundings.

Give it time perhaps two or three months then try the WNGs. Use them for 1 or 2hrs as I have recommended and then take them off for the same duration. Slowly build-up the wearing time to 6, 8 or 10hrs a day. Continue using sound enrichment during the night as WNGs shouldn't be used when asleep.

Keep the volume of the WNGs slightly below the tinnitus. Once you are able to wear them for more than 2hrs try not to keep adjusting the volume. The idea is that the brain habituates to the WNGs over time and slowly pushes the tinnitus further into the background making it less noticeable. If you keep adjusting the volume of the WNGs it makes it more difficult for the brain to habituate to it. The WNGs will also desensitise your auditory system making it less sensitive. Please understand this treatment takes time. My hyperacusis took 2 years to be cured using them. I cannot say how successful you will be because counselling is often recommend when using WNGs. However, I believe if you are patient and persist you will see improvement.

Michael

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Many parts in the human body can increase tinnitus and the same for pulsatile sounds. PT sounds can start from abdominal aortic enlargement and from there place blood flow pressure on the carotid and jugular veins. The vertebral artery that runs thru the C spine can be injured from whiplash causing high pitch tinnitus. Hypertension issues, even seldom and brief from stress can cause physical organ, vein, artery cranial nerve, eye and sight problems, headaches and floaters.

With all aspects of tinnitus, a something wrong signal needs to center in the brain or reach the brain thru a vein, artery, nerve or thru cell signaling. Hearing loss tinnitus is a separate disease as to other causes, but the brain says all are welcome.

A few days ago, my high pitch tinnitus disappeared completely for three days for the first time. I still had regular tinnitus, but not much and I still had all my other sounds including thumping and generator motor sounds from hypertension. Hypertension caused retina detachment, eye pain, floaters, black dots, visual snow, some loss of sight in left eye and abdominal aortic enlargement and kidney damage. Complications from this also extended to already problems with my carotid and jugular veins. My abdominal aortic is causing thumping PT and my internal jugular and carotid is causing generator motor sounds. Also during these days of tinnitus loss, I still had all the pain from degenerative issues and injury to mouth and the rest of my body.

I have severe hearing loss and my audio gram is off the charts. So what caused my high pitch tinnitus to disappear and my regular tinnitus to lessen for 3 days? My regular tinnitus was caused from ear syringing and my high pitch tinnitus was caused from dental whiplash where my vertebral artery was injured and my C spine straightened causing more neck and jaw degenerative issues. To be honest, I don't know why my tinnitus disappeared for 3 days. I did start to drink purified water with very high levels of oxidants, but if it was that, researchers would had made headlines years ago.

It really doesn't matter why my high pitch tinnitus disappeared, but it was nice. It also really doesn't matter because I been told that I have less than a year to live because a quick sudden hypertension crisis - raising blood pressure severely injured my kidneys. I don't have regular high blood pressure, but I sometimes have hypertension events.

Wishing the best to all.

 

[Michael Leigh]

HI @Greg Sacramento

Thank you for your well written and informative post. I am very sorry to know the problems that your BP has caused and hope your doctors will be able to do something that can help as there is always hope. I have had BP since my early 30s and thankfully, it hasn't caused any problems and hope this continues. I take medication to keep it under control and have regular blood tests to check the effects of the medication and my kidneys. Some people with tinnitus and have BP will not take their medication regularly for fear of making the tinnitus worse. I believe this is not wise as they risk: heart attack, stroke and kidney failure. My BP medicine is listed as can cause ringing in the ears. I haven't noticed any increase in the tinnitus and have been taking it for quite some time.

Hope you are able to get some help.
Take care
Michael

 

[all to gain]

It really doesn't matter why my high pitch tinnitus disappeared, but it was nice. It also really doesn't matter because I been told that I have less than a year to live because a quick sudden hypertension crisis - raising blood pressure severely injured my kidneys. I don't have regular high blood pressure, but I sometimes have hypertension events.

Wishing the best to all.

Dear Greg,

I'm so sorry to hear about your health problems. This really brings it all home to me just how fragile our bodies are.
I hope something can be done for you and that there is some light at the end of the tunnel. All the best.

 

[all to gain]

HI @Greg Sacramento

Thank you for your well written and informative post. I am very sorry to know the problems that your BP has caused and hope your doctors will be able to do something that can help as there is always hope. I have had BP since my early 30s and thankfully, it hasn't caused any problems and hope this continues. I take medication to keep it under control and have regular blood tests to check the effects of the medication and my kidneys. Some people with tinnitus and have BP will not take their medication regularly for fear of making the tinnitus worse. I believe this is not wise as they risk: heart attack, stroke and kidney failure. My BP medicine is listed as can cause ringing in the ears. I haven't noticed any increase in the tinnitus and have been taking it for quite some time.

Hope you are able to get some help.
Take care
Michael

Ironically, my tinnitus was brought on by a beta blocker (propranolol) in combination with another medication. I've always had perfect blood pressure but was given the medication to keep me calm (it is often used by people before their driving test etc). I say it's ironic because I now have high blood pressure brought on by the stress of having intrusive tinnitus.

 

[FGG]

@Michael Leigh, can you please stop telling people to avoid tinnitus forums? Forums are how people find out about underlying treatable causes such as PLF, TMJ, eustachian tube dysfunction etc. Or other co-morbid conditions such as acoustic neuroma, Meniere's etc etc etc

Forums are also how people find out about clinical trials for treatments (e.g. bimodal stimulation and regenerative medicine) they can be part of. As well as other information (if it wasn't for this forum I would have *no* idea VS and tinnitus were linked, for instance or that the Minnesota bimodal device looks like a likely solid treatment for cases who have both).

I understand you think critiques of CBT and TRT are harmful (I don't agree at all but I recognize that's clearly your opinion) but can you not see the harm in assuming that everyone has noise induced tinnitus if there has been a noise exposure (hydrops can happen after severe noise exposure and needs different treatment than just avoiding headphones and using CBT. PLF can happen after noise exposure too)? Forums help people navigate this.

I realize some people are helped by your advice and positive thinking mantra but I think that component of it (avoid forums) can really hurt others who are merely *assumed* to have noise induced tinnitus and can be helped or those who could enroll in clinical trials to reduce the sound of tinnitus not just increase the acceptance of it.

 

[Michael Leigh]

can you please stop telling people to avoid tinnitus forums?

I will continue to advise people on how I see fit. Please read my posts correctly before challenging me on anything that I write. I have said and will continue to say: Once a person starts tinnitus treatment I recommend they keep away from tinnitus forums because of negative thinking people that believe no tinnitus treatment will help them, particularly: TRT, CBT, Medication or sound therapy. This type of negative bias can be very damaging for anyone that is having these treatments to help manage their tinnitus.

Michael

 

[FGG]

I will continue to advise people on how I see fit. Please read my posts correctly before challenging me on anything that I write. I have said and will continue to say: Once a person starts tinnitus treatment I recommend they keep away from tinnitus forums because of negative thinking people that believe no tinnitus treatment will help them, particularly: TRT, CBT, Medication or sound therapy. This type of negative bias can be very damaging for anyone that is having these treatments to help manage their tinnitus.

Michael

In a world where everyone got proper medical treatment, I would agree with you. Going into any treatment with the idea it won't work probably is counter productive. But I think it should be emphasized over and over again that people should get all potentially treatable causes addressed first.

For their own mental health, too, people should realize if CBT and TRT do not work for them, there is hope around the corner with medical advances. This is the first time in history that's been true with tinnitus.

 

[fishbone]

Many parts in the human body can increase tinnitus and the same for pulsatile sounds. PT sounds can start from abdominal aortic enlargement and from there place blood flow pressure on the carotid and jugular veins. The vertebral artery that runs thru the C spine can be injured from whiplash causing high pitch tinnitus. Hypertension issues, even seldom and brief from stress can cause physical organ, vein, artery cranial nerve, eye and sight problems, headaches and floaters.

With all aspects of tinnitus, a something wrong signal needs to center in the brain or reach the brain thru a vein, artery, nerve or thru cell signaling. Hearing loss tinnitus is a separate disease as to other causes, but the brain says all are welcome.

A few days ago, my high pitch tinnitus disappeared completely for three days for the first time. I still had regular tinnitus, but not much and I still had all my other sounds including thumping and generator motor sounds from hypertension. Hypertension caused retina detachment, eye pain, floaters, black dots, visual snow, some loss of sight in left eye and abdominal aortic enlargement and kidney damage. Complications from this also extended to already problems with my carotid and jugular veins. My abdominal aortic is causing thumping PT and my internal jugular and carotid is causing generator motor sounds. Also during these days of tinnitus loss, I still had all the pain from degenerative issues and injury to mouth and the rest of my body.

I have severe hearing loss and my audio gram is off the charts. So what caused my high pitch tinnitus to disappear and my regular tinnitus to lessen for 3 days? My regular tinnitus was caused from ear syringing and my high pitch tinnitus was caused from dental whiplash where my vertebral artery was injured and my C spine straightened causing more neck and jaw degenerative issues. To be honest, I don't know why my tinnitus disappeared for 3 days. I did start to drink purified water with very high levels of oxidants, but if it was that, researchers would had made headlines years ago.

It really doesn't matter why my high pitch tinnitus disappeared, but it was nice. It also really doesn't matter because I been told that I have less than a year to live because a quick sudden hypertension crisis - raising blood pressure severely injured my kidneys. I don't have regular high blood pressure, but I sometimes have hypertension events.

Wishing the best to all.

I am so sorry, that you go through so much. You and @billie48 tend to inspire many on this forum. I can relate to many things in both of your stories. Keep inspiring people my friend, keep doing it. You may not try to do it, but your stories share, drive, motivate, strengthen people naturally.

 

[Michael Leigh]

In a world where everyone got proper medical treatment, I would agree with you. Going into any treatment with the idea it won't work probably is counter productive. But I think it should be emphasized over and over again that people should get all potentially treatable causes addressed first.

For their own mental health, too, people should realize if CBT and TRT do not work for them, there is hope around the corner with medical advances. This is the first time in history that's been true with tinnitus.

You have challenged me before on MPP and I found you to be a negative thinking person. You have also been insolent and disrespectful towards me.

I have said my piece and will no longer be discussing this topic.
Goodbye and I wish you well.

Michael

 

[FGG]

You have challenged me before on MPP and I found you to be a negative thinking person. You have also been insolent and disrespectful towards me.

I have said my piece and will no longer be discussing this topic.
Goodbye and I wish you well.

Michael

Challenging your opinion is not disrespectful. That's ridiculous.

I would prefer us talk about the points I am bringing up and not make this personal.

 

[bobvann]

I do think Michael Leigh truly wants to help people, offering what he believes in. I came from what some refer to a habituation cult community. According to them what you & fishbone say is partially wrong. To truly be habituated is having their tinnitus no longer bother them at all. They can resume doing anything they used to including use of headphones. Theories like no longer living your life and resuming normal activities was simply driven by anxiety and fear. Just change the way you think and *poof* all will be good again.

This is part of where the fallout happened because I realized for myself that attempting to keep drumming was only causing more issues. It did not however increase my baseline. I mentioned before that I use a tablet and Sony X32 blue tooth speaker for sound enrichment at night which can still be irritating at times which is why I understand that my H is still present. I play YouTube sounds at work through JBL speakers in my office when needed. I did have an ENT state that if one has H it only gets worse & tolerance diminishes with time.

I have read on several occasions TRT or the use of WNG's were not productive for some. I will know for myself whether it will be beneficial or detrimental. Just as with drumming, one does not want to push something too far and wind up worse off. CBT did not really help. I will use mindfulness to decompress when it spazzes. I am curious in regards to Lenire. Perhaps when it comes to North America. I am hoping to be able to drum again one day. If not oh well will get better on guitar...

 

[fishbone]

As I read some of the posts in here, I like to chime in for a second. @Michael Leigh makes a point, that once we start something like CBT, TRT, or a possibly therapy, that we need to stay away from forums. I want to say this, if I was going to do TRT, CBT or any kind of therapy. It would be in my own best interest, to be 100% FOCUSED on the therapy and accomplish my goals that are/were associated with that therapy. TRT can take some time and you need to be very focused and motivated when it comes to finishing it and gaining any benefits that it may have to offer.

When I did TRT there was no Tinnitus Talk, forums or anything. I was not always motivated to finish it either. I did not have that drive that I have right now. Many times, I wanted to quit it and just not do it. What @Michael Leigh talks about in being driven, positive, motivated is true. TRT takes time, patience and motivation. This forum is wonderful and I am proud to help out on here. If by any chance we do start TRT and do see a thread that may challenge it or question it, then it might possibly set us back. That set back, could possibly be that we do not start, continue or finish our TRT, CBT, or any therapy that we may have started.

It's like me doing TRT all over again and having people mock me and tell me that it will not help at all. I might get influenced by their words, feelings and emotions towards it. It's simple human nature and psychology.

This can happen in any forum with any topic. It can be weight loss, bowling, it can be anything. The whole point is that we need to have focus and be driven to finish our possible therapies to gain any possible benefits that it may have to offer.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I do think Michael Leigh truly wants to help people, offering what he believes in. I came from what some refer to a habituation cult community. According to them what you & fishbone say is partially wrong. To truly be habituated is having their tinnitus no longer bother them at all. They can resume doing anything they used to including use of headphones.

@bobvann

Bobvann, you are right that I truly want to help people with tinnitus. I do this because I know how debilitating this condition can be. The lack of help, support and understanding that some people receive and also, because I was once helped many years ago by people that were very experienced in tinnitus, at a forum similar to this one.

I do not have any medical qualifications or letters after name. I left school at the age of 16 and began an apprenticeship as a Carpenter and Joiner and passed my City and Guilds and obtained my advanced C&G qualifications. Ever since I can remember, I had a passion for expressing myself through words and liked to write poetry. When I was on a construction site, I'd often sit and write poetry in my lunch break.

In my early 20s I began working in people's homes doing most things concerning carpentry. From repairing box sash windows, hanging doors, building cupboards, installing stairs etc. I liked communicating with people especially women for some reason, as I was able to tune into them quite easily and really understood the way they think on an emotional level and have always found they opened up to me whatever was bothering them. I never forget, one Christmas whilst working in a woman's house we began talking as I fitting a door lock. She became emotional and began pouring her heart out, explaining that her husband had a drink problem although he wasn't violent towards her.

When I had finished fitting the lock we carried on talking and by now she revealed most of her life story. I learned she was devout Christian and remember her saying the Lord was a carpenter. When I was packing up my tools to leave she said: "You should be a doctor as you have a way of talking to people and really understand". I thought it was a nice thing for her to say and have never forgotten her words.

In my 30s I bought a touch typing book and taught myself to type on portable manual typewriter. It was then my interest in writing began to grow. When I got tinnitus and acquired a computer,I found using a flat keyboard much easier than a typewriter, where the keys are in rows and elevated.

Writing emails and communicating in forums has helped me to retain my touch typing skills and enabled me to express myself through words. I have previously mentioned I am an Audiophile something I am very passionate about and regularly write at HI-FI forums. Even though my tinnitus can be intrusive at times, thankfully it hasn't stopped me from enjoying listening to music through speakers. I no longer use headphones which I gave up using 24 years ago when they gave me tinnitus because I was listening to music too loud without realizing it. I haven't missed them once over the years and rarely think back to those days, as that's in the passed and it's best not to dwell on them.

The word habituation means to get used to something or learn to live with it. That is my definition when I describe my tinnitus. I am not cured of this condition but I have habituated and I am quite content, even at times when my tinnitus is severe and intrusive.

I am curious in regards to Lenire. Perhaps when it comes to North America. I am hoping to be able to drum again one day. If not oh well will get better on guitar...

I am advising you to please think carefully before trying the Lenire device. Someone I used to know that had Noise induced tinnitus, used it and their tinnitus became worse. I advised this person not to use it but understand they felt desperate. This person's tinnitus grew louder two weeks after using this device. Each person is different so it may help you. However, Lenire plays audio tones through headphones and for this reason, I advise anyone with Noise induced tinnitus to be careful using any tinnitus treatment where sound is played through headphones. White noise generators and hearing aids are designed differently and will not usually irritate the auditory system in most people. I know at the moment your WNGs cause you irritation, but if you follow my advice I think you will be able to use them eventually.

I strongly advise you not to play drums even when you habituate to your tinnitus. Loud sounds and tinnitus do not go well together.

Michael