Tinnitus, TMJ, Headaches, Neck Pain, Facial Pain, etc. — Possible Treatment

[applewine]

@Mr. Cartman Funny you mention that because I just stumbled upon a video mentioning a relation between the digastric and lateral pterygoid.



Also I'm pressing on the side of my neck and I'm not sure if I'm on the SCM or on the digastric.

 

[applewine]

@Mr. Cartman @Codaz I'm feeling stuff pressing in from of the SCM up high near the corner of the jaw and between that and the earlobe.

As far as the eye muscles you mentioned. Those muscles when there are trigger points are said to cause words to jump on the page. For me when I look at anything up close and move my eyes everything jumps around. I've mentioned that before. I think it started with the neck pain and was one of the two earliest symptoms.

It was this order.
1. Eyes, stiff neck
2. Pain between shoulder blades
3. Pain in chest
4. TMD, temples, tinnitus, face numbness, dizziness, ear pain

This progressed over three years.

 

[jeannie]

Just want to share my experience,,, my issues started in neck (stiffness and achy) then right eye started watering about a week before tinnitus, but I had gotten nerve blocks in face and inside of jaw for a cosmetic procedure about a week n half prior to symptoms starting,,15 days ago I got abottem tmj splint to pull jaw forward as I have been told by 3 dentist and 2 ent docs possible tmj ,, so my neck was feeling a little better and tinnitus still there but not as intrusive, then after 10 days I had to go for an adjustment and since then my neck has been achyh again ,and tinnitus has gotten worse . got adjustment on the 23rd so I'm just not sure what all the connection is? I'm also in physical theraspy for the 5th time in 2 years...

 

[Mr. Cartman]

@Mr. Cartman @Codaz I'm feeling stuff pressing in from of the SCM up high near the corner of the jaw and between that and the earlobe.

As far as the eye muscles you mentioned. Those muscles when there are trigger points are said to cause words to jump on the page. For me when I look at anything up close and move my eyes everything jumps around. I've mentioned that before. I think it started with the neck pain and was one of the two earliest symptoms.

It was this order.
1. Eyes, stiff neck
2. Pain between shoulder blades
3. Pain in chest
4. TMD, temples, tinnitus, face numbness, dizziness, ear pain

This progressed over three years.

The lateral pterygoid and digastric connection is interesting..

I have found that my eye (orbital) muscles are in very bad shape, and so are the nerves.. I didnt know it was this bad until I started working them out.. What I have found by doing "orbital" muscle exercises and eye rotation exercises is that upon wakening, my eyes are glued together and its literally hard to open them.. Like theres a lot of pus being drained.. I did not have this before and Im quite sure its because of the orbital and eye exercises. My eyes are feeling a lot healthier day by day though. I also experience eye floaters occasionally after doing the exercises.

Im now doing suboccipital stretches occasionally, relaxing my jaw by keeping it slightly to the left or slightly to the right, jaw exercises and orbital exercises.. Lets see how it works out..

It seems like if my eyeballs are elevated (using my eyes and look up), occipitofrontalis and the eye muscles are being used in a healthy way as well.. I think static muscle load is a killer, and Im trying to add some dynamics to all my head muscles as well as the neck muscles.

The list you provided is pretty much the same as what I experienced.. I suspect that the shoulder blade pain could originate from the rhomboid muscle which runs from C7 - T4 spinous processes and attaches to the scapula. So does the levator scapulae (runs from C1-C4 and attaches to the scapula superior to the rhomboid muscle). Just a thought, as it seems likely in my case.

Wiki: "When the spine is fixed, levator scapulae elevates the scapula and rotates its inferior angle medially.[1] It often works in combination with other muscles like the rhomboids and pectoralis minor to rotate down."

Im trying to get rid of muscle tension around the following nerves by doing exercises:
1. Auriculotemporal nerve
2. Supratrochlear and supraorbital nerve
3. Zygomaticotemporal nerve
4. Zygomaticofacial nerve
5. Infraorbital nerve

(They are all located around the eyes and face).

Also, the stuff you are talking about at the corner of your jaw at the top of your SCM, Ive got that stuff too.. It feels as if something is very tense around that spot..

 

[Mr. Cartman]

@applewine

I have also read case reports where a host of odd neurological symptoms were solved by decompression in the infratemporal fossa where the lateral pterygoids are located..

I think avoiding stress, bad posture and static muscle load is one of the key ingredients for healing

 

[Mr. Cartman]

@applewine @Codaz

Not sure if you have been doing this exercise, but in terms of stretching the scalenes, this is it..

It seems as if my scalenus posterior and medius are in pretty decent shape, but my scalenus anterior (close to the SCM) are just completely off.. It hurts bad upon stretching as well..

My entire arm and fingers starts to ache when working with the scalenus anterior.. A little like what the the image source below says (https://www.painscience.com/articles/spot-04-scalenes.php): "As an entire limb "lights up" with referred pain from a light pressure in the neck, many people will say something like, "Holy $%!@$#$!, what the hell is that?".

The anterior scalenes are stretched by doing her last scalenes instruction (number 3, the look up exercise).




---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The scalenes:

Image source: https://www.painscience.com/articles/spot-04-scalenes.php

(The source above is also a very interesting read for those that are interested).

 

[Codaz]

@Mr. Cartman

Up until last december I could make my T much higher when doing the same stretches like that girl does in the video.
Since I started working much more on the neck my facial problems have started to decrease.

Thanks for the video.

 

[applewine]

@Mr. Cartman @Codaz The thing is though that if this is caused by bad occlusion we can do this work forever and the muscles will never really react because there is a perpetuating factor.

 

[Codaz]

@applewine

Download this picture and see the research paper if you like.

 

[1MW]

Just want to share my experience,,, my issues started in neck (stiffness and achy) then right eye started watering about a week before tinnitus, but I had gotten nerve blocks in face and inside of jaw for a cosmetic procedure about a week n half prior to symptoms starting,,15 days ago I got abottem tmj splint to pull jaw forward as I have been told by 3 dentist and 2 ent docs possible tmj ,, so my neck was feeling a little better and tinnitus still there but not as intrusive, then after 10 days I had to go for an adjustment and since then my neck has been achyh again ,and tinnitus has gotten worse . got adjustment on the 23rd so I'm just not sure what all the connection is? I'm also in physical theraspy for the 5th time in 2 years...

What you mean your eye started watering ?
Something like this but with other shape?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Scintillating_scotoma.gif

 

[SleeplessSoul]

Mr. Cartman and Applewine,

I have all of those problems and issues you are discussing with the jaw, styloid ligaments , scm, etc and cervical elongated transverse process that protrudes from the area right under the ear and jaw. It's a hard lump. On my last tmj mri my dr looked at the images for an hour with me and said he believes the lump is the tranverse process. I have had many scans and images and even Biopsy of the parotid gland years ago but he is just now seeing that it's the tranverse process. He is an oral surgeon who is the only dr who has gone the extra mile in trying to help me. He wanted to inject hyaluronic something into the jaw joint as it is dislocated anteriorly.
I have mild scoliosis and am not sure if this is part of the underlying issue where one side of the jaw is more affected and prominent. This is of course the ear that has the low toned t.

What can be done? This all is so complicated and I have such bad myofascial pain all over that I can't even touch it due to tenderness.

Help, I am so discouraged. And way too complicated of a case for my doctors and I have seen them all.

Losing my resolve. Being in chronic pain for years and now the t 24/7. I am not a young person and this has gone on for many many years.
What can I do? Is there really any hope at this point? Crying is only making the pain worse.

 

[jeannie]

1mw I mean it was like an allergy, and I had to dab with tissue because it was watering..

 

[Codaz]

Mr. Cartman and Applewine,

I have all of those problems and issues you are discussing with the jaw, styloid ligaments , scm, etc and cervical elongated transverse process that protrudes from the area right under the ear and jaw. It's a hard lump. On my last tmj mri my dr looked at the images for an hour with me and said he believes the lump is the tranverse process. I have had many scans and images and even Biopsy of the parotid gland years ago but he is just now seeing that it's the tranverse process. He is an oral surgeon who is the only dr who has gone the extra mile in trying to help me. He wanted to inject hyaluronic something into the jaw joint as it is dislocated anteriorly.
I have mild scoliosis and am not sure if this is part of the underlying issue where one side of the jaw is more affected and prominent. This is of course the ear that has the low toned t.

What can be done? This all is so complicated and I have such bad myofascial pain all over that I can't even touch it due to tenderness.

Help, I am so discouraged. And way too complicated of a case for my doctors and I have seen them all.

Losing my resolve. Being in chronic pain for years and now the t 24/7. I am not a young person and this has gone on for many many years.
What can I do? Is there really any hope at this point? Crying is only making the pain worse.

You are the first that did a TMJ MRI, that I know of. Is there anything they can see on those scans?
MRI frightens me to death because of the noise level. But I so badly want to get rid of my TMJ + T.
What do you know more, is it a nerve that is blocked or muscle too tight?

 

[SleeplessSoul]

The jaw is anteriorly dislocated on the right very visible to the radiologist. And on the left, upon closer inspection from the ordering physician, so is the left side.
They also put a cylinder in my mouth halfway through the mri to see what the jaw looks like open as well as closed. That was the worst part for me. I aches for a week afterwards in my jaw and back of the head and neck.
I have t and h, but have had so many mri's. There isn't anything to fear as far as noise levels go in my opinion. I wear the earplugs and I am fine. No spikes afterward. Just the same.
My jaw is extremely tight. I don't know what else can be done. He wats to inject hyaluronate to help the jaw open and close so it slides easier. I suppose that helps with the dislocation.
I haven't heard from their office. They were trying to get an approval for that procedure from my insurance company.

 

[Sound Wave]

This thread might find this interesting -> kinesio taping for tinnitus

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/kinesio-taping-for-tinnitus.8969/

 

[SleeplessSoul]

Thank you so much for posting that Thread Sound Wave.

I have some in the house an will apply it tomorrow.

 

[Codaz]

This thread might find this interesting -> kinesio taping for tinnitus

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/kinesio-taping-for-tinnitus.8969/

I talked to my physiotherapist. She is unfortunately unkown with taping the facial muscles or neck. Mostly she uses it if trigger points do not come loose during her treatment.

The thing is that they come loose on me, but in time I tighten them again. This is why my jaw becomes more and more painful during the week, and tinnitus increases again. I am able to make it 2 or 3 days after the TMJ therapy without pain / a lot of tinnitus. I hope to extend this period.

If I compare my T / pain with january (2,5 to 3 months) ago it's already much better. Today my therapist confirmed that she sees that I'm making progress.

 

[Mr. Cartman]

@applewine @Codaz

Im just curious.. Ive been working out my orbital muscles a lot lately.. And my supraorbital and supratrochlear nerve feels very inflamed so to speak (I didnt know about this until I started to work this area out).. As for tinnitus, working in the area of those nerves have an impact on my tinnitus. It sometimes stops for a couple of milliseconds, it triggers fleeting tinnitus and sometimes adds a new sound which is a very distinct low, solid hum which goes away in a few seconds.. After I did exercises of the eyebrow (where the supraorbital and supratrochlear nerve passes) I got some serious weird stuff happening as far as sensations in the face.. It felt as if a spider web had got stuck on my face for a while..

Have any of you tried to pay any attention to those nerves and muscles? Kind of curious if you would experience something similar..

As far as neck exercises.. Have you tried lying flat on the floor / bed, turn your head to the right or left as far as you can then elevate your head in this position? It seems to work out the anterior scalenes, levator scapulae and the SCM pretty good.

After I did those exercises for a couple of days my tinnitus has changed in quality and my Auricularis anterior (the muscle anterior to the ear) has gotten very sore and I have no idea why..

I have also found that when Im stressed out or focus my eyes on a computer monitor, the way I tense up the muscles around my eyes makes the posterior portion of occipitalis to contract, just behind my ears.. It has been in a static state of muscle tension all the time.. I dont think its good.. I found that elevating my eyebrows did inhibit this contraction of occipitalis.

The supraorbital and supratrochlear nerve can be found in the eyebrow region and the lower part of the forehead.
A google search of the nerves above will provide a few good images as well.


Applewine: Not sure if its caused by bad occlusion.. Interesting videos btw

 

[Codaz]

@Mr. Cartman why don't you visit a physiotherapists office to work out these muscles?

I don't know if I can feel my nerves, I'm not a doctor.

 

[applewine]

Im just curious.. Ive been working out my orbital muscles a lot lately.. And my supraorbital and supratrochlear nerve feels very inflamed so to speak (I didnt know about this until I started to work this area out).. As for tinnitus, working in the area of those nerves have an impact on my tinnitus. It sometimes stops for a couple of milliseconds, it triggers fleeting tinnitus and sometimes adds a new sound which is a very distinct low, solid hum which goes away in a few seconds.. After I did exercises of the eyebrow (where the supraorbital and supratrochlear nerve passes) I got some serious weird stuff happening as far as sensations in the face.. It felt as if a spider web had got stuck on my face for a while..

Have any of you tried to pay any attention to those nerves and muscles? Kind of curious if you would experience something similar..

As far as neck exercises.. Have you tried lying flat on the floor / bed, turn your head to the right or left as far as you can then elevate your head in this position? It seems to work out the anterior scalenes, levator scapulae and the SCM pretty good.

After I did those exercises for a couple of days my tinnitus has changed in quality and my Auricularis anterior (the muscle anterior to the ear) has gotten very sore and I have no idea why..

I have also found that when Im stressed out or focus my eyes on a computer monitor, the way I tense up the muscles around my eyes makes the posterior portion of occipitalis to contract, just behind my ears.. It has been in a static state of muscle tension all the time.. I dont think its good.. I found that elevating my eyebrows did inhibit this contraction of occipitalis.

The supraorbital and supratrochlear nerve can be found in the eyebrow region and the lower part of the forehead.
A google search of the nerves above will provide a few good images as well.


Applewine: Not sure if its caused by bad occlusion.. Interesting videos btw

@Mr. Cartman You have addressed a lot in that post. Are you stretching these orbital muscles by looking in a direction and holding? You can work these trigger points by pressing on the muscles just inside the eye socket as well. The videos I bought showed and talked about that. No doubt likely the shaking I experience when focusing and moving my eyes up close are caused by malfunctioning orbital muscles.

You mentioned the two orbital nerves and I looked that up. https://classconnection.s3.amazonaw...supratrochlear_nerves_(edit)1316055856151.jpg

I don't understand why these nerves are important. It is interesting that all these nerves can be seen to be coming out of the trigeminal nerve a big trigeminal nucleus.

I'm not sure about your head exercise test. What I do notice is that if I support my weight using my neck like while sitting in the car by pressing it up against the head rest with my back off the seat or probably laying down as well I feel something in a muscle. To get a reaction I have to turn my head to the side and then support the weight. I feel a painful ache that I know is exposing the pathology by the type of pain. It may be the SCM, but I have a hard time determining what muscle is making the pain. I'm not sure about your neck exercise.

I don't notice anything about being stressed and my eyes doing anything. For me it does it 100% of the time if I simply look at anything close up and moves my eyes. The whole field vision shakes.

I haven't done the stretching / neck exercises in a long time. I did do the clavicular SCM stretch for a while a month or two ago when we were talking about that. that was interesting. Before that a year before I tried a bunch of stretches probably like that videos shows ( I haven't watched it). I guess I gave up because I did it for a while and also I decided stretches would fix trigger points, at least not alone.

 

[Mr. Cartman]

@applewine

I work them out my resisting elevation and depression of my eyebrows with my fingers, and try to loosen up the muscles there. I am very confident that those nerves are inflamed, or at least something very close to them.. Something is not right for sure. The same seems to be the case in my infraorbital area.. It actually feels as if all the muscles in my orbital area and slightly above my upper lip are so tensed up that they are about to burst.. I can imagine that they are pinching a nerve or two as well.. I dont know if its related to the tinnitus, other than it just affects it in weird ways..

I also do a "roll the eyes" exercise, elevate the eyebrows and blink hard, pull the eyebrows towards eachother, and a lot of other movement exercises and some eyebrow and infraorbital massage.

Im going to continue working out those muscles and see what happens..

It is likely that the vision stuff you are talking about is related to those nerves and muscles indeed..

Thanks for the image, its actually one of the best images I have seen of the nerves in the face.

I have been working out my orbital muscles for a few days now, and what I have noticed is that a lot of pus is draining from my eyes, and when I wake up, my eyes are more or less glued together.. I havent had this before, except for a couple of weeks before I got tinnitus.. At least something is draining from my eyes after I started doing this stuff.

As for the pain you are talking about, I have found that my anterior scalenes are very painful as well as the lower and upper part of the SCM.

Guess we'll just have to try out some exercises and see what happens.

Im waiting for a new contrast MRI as well.. Not sure if anything will show up, but its going to be interesting.

 

[Mr. Cartman]

@Mr. Cartman why don't you visit a physiotherapists office to work out these muscles?

I don't know if I can feel my nerves, I'm not a doctor.

I think I will

 

[linearb]

I did a pretty vigourous release of my lateral pterygoids yesterday, and hours later I got some stabbing pain and fluctuating fullness in my ears. I also remember that right after I did the release, my ear on the right really seemed to "open up" and my hearing threshold seemed improved.

So, more fodder for the "tmj shit impacts ear shit" folder...

 

[Mr. Cartman]

I did a pretty vigourous release of my lateral pterygoids yesterday, and hours later I got some stabbing pain and fluctuating fullness in my ears. I also remember that right after I did the release, my ear on the right really seemed to "open up" and my hearing threshold seemed improved.

So, more fodder for the "tmj shit impacts ear shit" folder...

Hi! Thanks for the input

I get that too, it seems as if theres a jaw-area related muscles which creates fullness in the ear.. Im not 100% sure its the lateral pterygoid, but theres a muscle for sure.. Im kind of curious how it works and why it really happens.. This muscle seems to be involved in the acoustic reflex as well (it contracts to loud noise).. And it does feel as if it has the power to directly impact hearing threshold, at least this happens for me when I try to mock around with my jaw muscles from inside the mouth.

Please keep us updated if you are able to figure something out

 

[applewine]

@Mr. Cartman The pus thing is very surprising. I wonder if you are actually coming down with conjunctivitis and it is not something else. I'm not sure how you are working the muscles around your eyes and working this pus out. I don't feel anything like that.

The only abnormal thing I do feel is a bump on the right side below my cheek bone. I think it is a parotid duct stone. I feel the same bump on the left side, but it is much smaller. It is easier to find the bump if you open your mouth all the way so it brings it to the surface. You can't see it though because it isn't big enough.

I suppose the weird sensation I get below the eyes on the face soft of feels like spider webs. I may have felt the spiderweb thing before when pressing on nerves in the neck. I don't normally think of it as a spider-web sensation, but it does feel that kind of like that.

I don't get ear fullness ever except once during 2008 and I'm not sure if that was caused by this or a mad reaction to something I took. The muscle that controls sound is also the one that makes a fluttering sound if it spasms.

 

[Mr. Cartman]

Yeah.. Its a bit weird..

I think I may have the same lump that you are talking about, only I have it on the left side (the worst side). When I added pressure to this lump it would produce an electrical sting and I thought it was my masseter which had this lump, but Im not sure what it is. I have it on the right side as well, but its only on my left side where it feels swollen and not right.

Ill continue the workouts and see what happens

 

[applewine]

@Mr. Cartman The bump feels kind of like a small pea or maybe a little smaller. It is hard to tell. I'm pressing on it, but not really feeling any pain. Not sure how hard to press. It is on the right side and same side where symptoms are worse. I looked into it years ago and decided it was nothing. I asked a ear nose and throat doctor. I just remembered it because your pus thing. You could probably go in there and see if there is a stone, but then you risk damaging a nerve I think. So, unless there is a non invasive way to do it like shockwave treatment like they do with gall stones. There are also drugs to dissolve small gallstones.

 

[applewine]

@Mr. Cartman Strange new symptom that has come back. I'm getting a weird itch on the edge of my right rib cage. It is not skin related. It is a nerve or something under the skin. I'm also getting a pain in my back on the same side that is below the shoulder blade. I had this itch many years ago about a year after the neck pain when things started to spread to the back.

I'm not sure if it is related to the pain in the back. I've also been drinking coffee recently and not sure if that could be related. I sometimes wonder if it could be gallbladder stones or liver or some organ. I also read that somatic referals from the gallbladder, liver and other organs can refer to the neck and jaw muscles.

 

[Codaz]

Yesterday I started relaxation excersizes. The muscle tension has to go, one way or another. More muscle pain is more facial pain is more tinnitus, at least on me and some of the others here in this topic.

I explained to my new psychologist the information from the presentation of Dr De Ridder that in our dreams we don't have tinnitus. She related that to our subconsciousness is at work then. You want to activate that self healing mechanism. To me it sounded like a lot of hocus pocus. But I knew that my T is very low after a night of good sleep (10 to 11 hrs). So you can sleep the whole day but you have to life further, life goes on. So you have to be as relaxed as during sleep, or at least try to. As some ENT's thought my T is stress related, I explained it all to her and she suggested we tried an excersize where you relax parts of your body 1 step at a time. She knows that I have TMJ issues.

So first relax the toes, then legs, then arms, then chest, then neck, then face. Face was by far the hardest.

After 20 mins you slowly wake up. The afternoon after the excersize it felt like somebody had slammed a hammer on my face. About the same pain as after seeying my TMJ physiotherapist.

But it did something to my facial muscles, facial pain and eventually also to my T. I think that is great

The goal is to reach a moment of staring/gazing or sleep. From the literature: "hypnotherapy focused on relaxation and control of intestinal motility only" (Galovski, Blanchard, 1998).

In short: more relaxedness. And I must admit, I felt more relaxed afterwards. Did not have that feeling in a very long time. I explained to her that I don't feel that I have any reserves left, Always on full alert. That relaxedness is needed to face the task of battling with T and the issues of life.

Since stress worsens tinnitus I thought it might be a good thing to work on relaxation, and so far so good. T is not gone, but atleast more moments of silence (or 70-80% gone, also in dead quiet rooms).
I hope the pain does not come back. Only 2 weeks ago I still had major facial pain. The dental surgeon I spoke about it says it is all stress related.

I see that hypnotherapy / relaxation techniques come from the biofeedback region. I heard that before and want to dive further into that. To start, I have read a paper about it, see attachment. It shows that CBT and biofeedback can complement each other in treating TMD / TMJ issues.

 

[Mr. Cartman]

@applewine @Codaz

Hi!

I havent been posting for a little while, but I drew a map of muscles and nerves that I found to be in terrible shape.
I have also gotten a lot better, and it seems like things are still improving by loosening up muscle tension around those spots and in the neck.

If you look at the picture, theres one big red spot just above the lip which I believe has been seriously inflamed, and by massaging this muscle for a day or two I actually got some kind of eczema on the skin that went away after a couple of days. I also got something that could remind of electrical bursts while massaging this spot.

The red spots are the spots that Im currently trying to loosen up.

The green arrows are muscle tension pattern I found when stressing out, working in front of the computer etc.
Levator labii superioris has been chronically tensed up for years, and its in a terrible shape as far as I can tell.

The same goes for the neck. I didnt make any image of it, but one exercise I found helpful is rotational movements of the head by looking straight up at the ceiling and rotate the head so that the spot between my eyes would work as a pivot point (the center point). When I do this exercise I always end up worse for a little while, but better afterwards. I also think this exercise has the potential to injure the neck if done too much or improperly. Just a guess

I hope you guys are doing alright!