War in Ukraine — Megathread

[Juan]

Woww... Is it that easy to pass money laundering checks in the UK?

In Spain at least the government makes it clear they will not move a finger to seize any property owned by Russian oligarchs. Our government is so pathetic they do not even pretend to have "checks" on anything.

Russian warlord passed UK money laundering checks with mother's utility bill

 

[Rockstar]

Even Progressives and Liberals are not saying anything against it, as they voted for Biden because they "didn't like Trump" and now won't criticize Biden for anything, even if he is flirting with World War III, or worse.

Many people were saying Trump was crazy enough to use nukes and start World War III. I don't have any hope in the government so I didn't have any expectations either way.

Many were so confident he would turn Ukraine, the Korean peninsula and Venezuela into new war zones with 24/7 bombings. None of it happened. No new invasion.

Instead he was the one who started the withdrawal of Afghanistan. That was a 20-year-old unwinnable war and he was right for doing what was needed despite the government bureaucracy he had to go through. The Taliban fought with Soviet era weapons in flip flops and Ukraine could just become another expensive failed war and it might drag on for years.

I thought maybe this trend would continue under Biden. Biden ended up reversing many of Trump's other surprising progress like the troops withdrawal in Somalia and then ended up bombing that country straight away.

The situation in Ukraine could have been avoided, but just like the progress Biden reversed in places such as Somalia, he chose to put more fuel on the fire.

There's been other trends that have started like Biden's government cannot stop talking about a "war with China in 2025". China has nuclear bombs.

Then he also antagonised Saudi Arabia to the point the Saudi's now plan on selling their oil in Chinese Yuan instead of dollars.

He pissed the Saudi's off so much, they threatened the west with Jihad. The comments are also all talking about Biden:

 

[Rockstar]

So not only Russia's economy this year is growing faster than Germany and UK (even worse, their economy is shrinking), the forecasts shows Russia is about to grow faster than Joey B's America next year.

The British BBC themselves said it, not Putin:

The sanctions are backfiring as Europe seems to be struggling with their gas bills. Hungary, which is poor, bought Russian gas, although they got punished by the EU financially despite already struggling with poverty. Now there's talks about punishing third world countries like India for buying Russian gas even though it's all they can afford.

This is very embarrassing because at least when sanctions were used against Iraq before the invasion, their economy ended up being depressing. Unlike the lies about Iraq's WMD's to justify the invasion, Russia actually has WMD's.

So, Russia's economy has bounced back unlike Saddam's Iraq, but you can't invade Russia like Iraq without risking nuclear Armageddon. So what the hell can you do at this point?

Okay, the only path is continuing the Afghanistan route in Ukraine by turning it into an endless war. I don't think Russian soldiers are fighting in broken flip flops like the Taliban however.

It gets even more interesting. Whenever a country is bombed by the west, China comes in and rebuilds the infrastructure, thus gaining more influence. The locals still hate the west but start to look up to China more. China is very good friends with Russia. Look up China's BRI.



And the same thing is happening in Syria and Afghanistan where China is gaining influence by rebuilding infrastructure and getting access to resources for it. Assad's government and the Taliban have basically won their fight and they also have close ties with Russia.

Well, isn't this a sticky situation?

What solution do the Neo-Cons have for all of this?

Bomb those same Muslim countries again so we can create more terrorist attacks in our backyard like before? Then kill us all with a nuclear war with Russia and China over Ukraine? This is as ridiculous as when certain politicians suggested starting World War III over Syria in 2016.

Don't forget, it could be China rebuilding Ukraine's infrastructure just like Syria and Iraq.

Can't even rebuild Gary, Indiana, nevermind Iraq, yet talking about rebuilding Ukraine. What a joke.

It's called endless war for a reason.

 

[ZFire]

It is the fault of the United States for getting involved in this. It is not our business, if they want to fight a war that is unwinnable with or without our help.

It is our business. A Ukraine defeat would create a more dangerous and unstable world.

We cannot continue to support the entire economy of Ukraine, with hundreds of billions of dollars, so that the military industrial complex can make a "killing" there, from our tax dollars.

We went over this. $755B to military defense each year and 2% of that to Ukraine. It's hardly anything.

We've also been very efficient with the money and saving lots in costs with Ukraine. We are mostly sending old obsolete military equipment and unpopular/lower tech systems that would have cost more money to maintain and get rid of (sent to the scrapyard). And make no mistake, the near end of life equipment we have sent is still far superior than the junk Russia uses. The amount of money we've sent has been well spent. Keep the weapons flowing, the Ukrainians have earned it.

Russia has been successful in making people believe the US just cuts checks to Ukraine and everything gets stolen. A complete lie.

We are just giving the victims the means to self-determine their outcome. Thanks to US and western support.

Fixed.

Ukraine could have avoided all of this, by sitting down and negotiating a peaceful agreement with Russia.

No. Peaceful agreements hardly mean anything when you're dealing with Russia/Putin. Go check what Russia agreed to when Ukraine laid down their nuclear weapons (@Lane already brought it up). A peace agreement with Russia is essentially a temporary ceasefire, albeit with a more longer duration. Remember the Minsk agreements?

Time and time again, Putin keeps taking territory despite previous agreements. You have Transnistria in Moldova, Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia, Crimea, and now he wants Ukraine in its entirety. Time to put a stop to his bullshit.

Even Progressives and Liberals are not saying anything against it, as they voted for Biden because they "didn't like Trump" and now won't criticize Biden for anything, even if he is flirting with World War III, or worse.

This isn't true. Progressives have been undermining the effort to support Ukraine military too. Radical leftists, tankies, anti-western folks wanted Ukraine to surrender immediately. These people are anti-America.

Have a look these NAY votes in the Asset Seizure bill that was passed a while ago which had sensible bipartisan support by in large:

The No votes on the top row aren't surprising because those people are hard-right lunatics, but the 4 Republican members in the bottom row are well known progressives (part of a group known as 'The Squad') who also voted no to this bill. This bill allows the president to confiscate assets from sanctioned oligarchs and uses those funds to support Ukraine. Why anyone would want to vote no to this is beyond me. Using seized Russian assets to assist and rebuild Ukraine is great policy and very efficient in terms of money.

Hi @ZFire -- Thanks for so many of your points, most of which I feel are spot on. When I see your posts, I often feel sort of relieved to not have to take the time to make the very same points! I believe your above point is particularly important however, so I guess I'll chime in.

Some people seem to think that if only the warring parties (including the U.S. and NATO) would come to the negotiation table, things could be tidied up rather quickly. What they fail to realize is that not only is Russia currently a major danger to Ukraine and other "Bucharest 9" countries (former E. European countries that used to be part of the Warsaw Pact), but will continue to be a grave danger long after any truce between Ukraine and Russia ever materializes.

What all these countries have in common is they've been attacked, and/or subjugated and brutalized over centuries by the Russian Bear. I recently came across a comment by a Polish man who said something like, "When the Germans invaded us, they took our freedom. When the Russians invaded and occupied our country, they took our Soul". Which I think exemplifies the nature of Russia and its long, sordid past.

To believe that Russia will somehow changes its true colors if it is allowed to take over parts of Ukraine is wishful thinking at best. I believe there is truly a monumental geopolitical struggle going on at this time between freedom and subjugation (also referred to as democracy and autocracy). And the U.S. is (for better or worse) the indispensable nation with an ability to--at least somewhat--safeguard some of the "global bill of rights" that the world has taken for granted since the end of WWII.

I am thankful every day of watching this unfold that Biden is in the position he is, and taking the path of obstructing Russia as much as possible. I can't help but think his standing by Ukraine and making Russia incur severe losses is not being lost on China and influencing their determination to someday attempt to subjugate the people of Taiwan. I suspect they'll think twice if they think there's any chance they could incur losses as significant as Russia's in the war with Ukraine.

 

[Rockstar]

Thought this information might be worth knowing. So me and a friend of my were speaking about the Neo-Nazi Azov Battalion in Ukraine and "imperial boomerang" happening, which is a real thing. There's been more Neo-Nazi mass shootings recently, including the Buffalo shooter in this picture above who mass murdered minorities. I do wonder if it's going to get especially bad if the Ukraine war fails just like all the other wars this century. I'll explain why the effects of Ukraine will come back home to us.

"Imperial boomerang is a term for the way in which empires use their colonies as laboratories for methods of counter-insurgency, social control and repression". An example includes the concentration camps Germany created in Namibia that was the prototype for the Holocaust during World War II.

"Our government won't drop bombs on us like in the Middle East" - they did in Philadelphia.

In Afghanistan, opium production became almost non-existent under the Taliban and then it made a huge comeback after the Taliban was removed in 2001. This info comes from the British BBC, not the Taliban:

The opium addiction problem in Afghanistan got so bad that there's videos of schools filled with little children addicted to opium. Yes, drug addicted children. The Taliban had to force homeless drug addicts to go to rehab, soon 0 was done before they took back control. Vietnam had the same issue and did the same thing; now drug use isn't common.

Addictive drug use was always encouraged against countries under imperial rule with China experiencing the worst case of it. You are not going to pick up a gun and fight back if you are tranquilized 24/7.

Now, look at Kensington Avenue. Most of the famous videos you see online of this drug addict slum comes from 2021, after the Taliban took back control and got Joey B's weapons. The area was normal before.

Everything that's happening in Ukraine could "come home to roost". Due to the Neo-Nazi's being fully encouraged in there, don't be so confident it would be so different this time.

Amnesty International also have reports of Neo-Nazi war crimes in Ukraine.

I don't know, I'm not white and those videos of Ukrainian Neo-Nazi soldiers attacking innocent South Asian and African students with their families makes me think they wouldn't hesitate to target me.

Both the use of bombings and mass drug addiction came home to roost in the city where America declared independence. America had a non-interference policy until the 1910s and back then it was in the top 5 for living standards. Now today being fully interventionist, it's barely in the top 30 for basic living standards.

Ukraine's maternal mortality rate is better than America's... Yes, a mother is more likely to die of poor health in America than third world Ukraine. America's rate is getting worse while it was improving for Ukraine. Russia before the war and China recently has both improved past America's maternal mortality rate.

America's maternal mortality rate: 23.8 in 2020, and 32.2 in 2021

Ukraine's maternal mortality rate: 24.00 in 2014, 19.00 in 2017

Not just Ukraine, but many other third world countries.

It's the definition of Empire neglects the Republic, which means it's unsustainable and America will go into chaos if it doesn't focus on its internal issues. It's in a more fragile state for a reason.

 

[Lane]

Interesting comments--which I agree with--by Mitch McConnell, Republican Senate Minority leader. I truly believe those advocating for abandoning Ukraine for the sake of "saving money" is a good example of "penny wise, pound foolish."

Mitch McConnell tells U.S. to 'wake up' to threat of Russia on Ukraine war anniversary

The longtime Republican leader argued forcefully Friday that giving money to Ukraine "is not an act of charity" on America's part, while also urging European countries to spend more of their own funds toward the effort.

"If Putin were given a green light to destabilize Europe, invading and killing at will, the long-term cost to the United States in both dollars and security risks would be astronomically higher than the minuscule fraction of our GDP that we have invested in Ukraine's defense thus far," McConnell said in the statement.​

 

[Jammer]

@Luman is getting confused by the facts and the true Putin end game. Too bad he's not more open to learning from other posters here, as they are delineating a position that is confined by truth. But again, he'd rather post the same 'ol same 'ol than respond with a reasoned argument.

 

[just1morething]

Former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said the Ukraine war would more than likely never had happened under the Trump administration. They were more feared and respected than weak Joe. His withdrawal disaster from Afghanistan showed Putin he was weak.

At this point a peace negotiation is the only way out of this bad situation. Too bad for all the death and destruction caused by Putin. The United Nations should be involved you would think, otherwise it appears to be a stalemate for the foreseeable future.

Ukraine: General Assembly resumes emergency special session, taking up new text to end war

 

[Rockstar]

Protest in Berlin over arming Ukraine against Russia draws thousands

India, China abstain from UN vote demanding Russia to 'immediately' withdraw from Ukraine

Something is going on in Bakhmut where even pro-Ukraine news sources such as the NBC and BBC are starting to paint a bleak picture. Not so long ago there was so much mixed information about how Ukraine was about to win Bakhmut? The BBC are now saying the opposite very recently.

In this article, they basically described it as a "meat grinder". Think of the Taliban massacring NATO soldiers then running back to their safe caves unscathed. Now the people fighting against Russia are saying the average life expectancy for Ukrainian soldiers fighting in this city is 4 hours:

Bakhmut Life Expectancy Near Four Hours On Frontlines, Fighter Warns

 

[Luman]

@Luman is getting confused by the facts and the true Putin end game. Too bad he's not more open to learning from other posters here, as they are delineating a position that is confined by truth. But again, he'd rather post the same 'ol same 'ol than respond with a reasoned argument.

Let's assume that you and the other Biden supporters of this war are correct and that we should give Ukraine hundreds of billions of dollars. From what I am reading, the weapon deliveries to Ukraine, from the United States, are going very slow and literally take months to arrive there. The Ukrainian military are being trained to use equipment that they do not even have. In the unlikely event that this invasion would have happened under a second Trump term, and he had decided to do what Biden is attempting, he would have been far more successful at providing the weapons and other necessary help, in a timely and efficient manner. Biden has rejected and mocked China's offer to help negotiate a peace settlement, while Zelenskyy appears to be interested, to some extent. Zelenskyy has probably realized that dealing with a person as incompetent as Biden, will not result in anything good for Ukraine.

 

[Rockstar]

His withdrawal disaster from Afghanistan showed Putin he was weak.

Speaking of Putin, he recently made a speech about the West normalizing pedophilia. It's going viral and the comments are very supportive of him.

Anyways, I didn't watch the full thing, but it made me remember something in Afghanistan after the Taliban was overthrown.

Just like how Opium addiction made a huge comeback, bacha bazi also became practically legal which even Western news reported about this on how the Afghan Western Puppet government did nothing about it. It's basically a show for pedophiles and under the Taliban government if you were caught it was instant execution.

Even more crazy relating to this, look up the Kentler Project in West Berlin when Germany used to be split up as 2 countries. Even Germany's DW news can't hide this evil experiment on children. The West Berlin authorities allowed it.

Maybe this is what Russia means by the West normalizing pedophilia?

 

[dan]

Protest in Berlin over arming Ukraine against Russia draws thousands

India, China abstain from UN vote demanding Russia to 'immediately' withdraw from Ukraine

Something is going on in Bakhmut where even pro-Ukraine news sources such as the NBC and BBC are starting to paint a bleak picture. Not so long ago there was so much mixed information about how Ukraine was about to win Bakhmut? The BBC are now saying the opposite very recently.

In this article, they basically described it as a "meat grinder". Think of the Taliban massacring NATO soldiers then running back to their safe caves unscathed. Now the people fighting against Russia are saying the average life expectancy for Ukrainian soldiers fighting in this city is 4 hours:

Bakhmut Life Expectancy Near Four Hours On Frontlines, Fighter Warns

Ukraine is losing the war.

Russia's brilliant strategy after humiliating defeats trying to gain territory, was to dig in along the front line (stabilize the frontline), meanwhile drawing out Ukraine forces to Bahmut and unleashing non-stop hell by way of Artillery and rockets. Effectively forming a so called "meat grinder". Zelensky's pride and inexperience (former comedian/clown) keeps sending battalions to their death on a daily basis. This instead of simply cutting losses and withdrawing to better positions in Kramatorsk. The strategy he has to use is to slowly withdraw while spreading Russian lines thin. Instead he is moronically taking Russia head on. It could be that he has no choice in the matter since the Pentagon might have ordered him to hold the line at all costs. Either way, Zekensky is done. Just a matter of when.
I also seriously doubt Zelensky's ambition to take Crimea will put any dent in the Russian lines. Those Abrams tanks will be useless upon encountering anti-tank ditches where they will get stuck and be sitting ducks for Russian missiles by way of a couple of Russian Suhoi.

 

[Rockstar]

Ukraine is losing the war.

They made it seem like Ukraine was about to take over Moscow.

Russia's brilliant strategy after humiliating defeats trying to gain territory, was to dig in along the front line (stabilize the frontline), meanwhile drawing out Ukraine forces to Bahmut and unleashing non-stop hell by way of Artillery and rockets. Effectively forming a so called "meat grinder". Zelensky's pride and inexperience (former comedian/clown) keeps sending battalions to their death on a daily basis. This instead of simply cutting losses and withdrawing to better positions in Kramatorsk. The strategy he has to use is to slowly withdraw while spreading Russian lines thin. Instead he is moronically taking Russia head on. It could be that he has no choice in the matter since the Pentagon might have ordered him to hold the line at all costs. Either way, Zekensky is done. Just a matter of when.
I also seriously doubt Zelensky's ambition to take Crimea will put any dent in the Russian lines. Those Abrams tanks will be useless upon encountering anti-tank ditches where they will get stuck and be sitting ducks for Russian missiles by way of a couple of Russian Suhoi.

Yeah and there's a reason why Russia is in the eastern part of Ukraine because it was already filled with Russians before the war, so the locals were less likely to support Ukraine's side. Russia can push forward one step at a time with less trouble unlike at the beginning when they tried to bum-rush to Kyiv thinking they were going to take over in a few days.

They can reduce losses and kill with the least effort. It's going to be a "slow burn" as Russia needs to reduce the losses so they can maintain political support back home.

 

[Jammer]

Let's assume that you and the other Biden supporters of this war are correct and that we should give Ukraine hundreds of billions of dollars. From what I am reading, the weapon deliveries to Ukraine, from the United States, are going very slow and literally take months to arrive there. The Ukrainian military are being trained to use equipment that they do not even have. In the unlikely event that this invasion would have happened under a second Trump term, and he had decided to do what Biden is attempting, he would have been far more successful at providing the weapons and other necessary help, in a timely and efficient manner. Biden has rejected and mocked China's offer to help negotiate a peace settlement, while Zelenskyy appears to be interested, to some extent. Zelenskyy has probably realized that dealing with a person as incompetent as Biden, will not result in anything good for Ukraine.

As a fellow Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton supporter, I'm curious where you get your info from or is it self-generated? Please list and stop with the "same 'ol same 'ol" approach you favor.

 

[Luman]

As a fellow Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton supporter, I'm curious where you get your info from or is it self-generated? Please list and stop with the "same 'ol same 'ol" approach you favor.

When people get desperate, like you obviously are, they try to obscure the issue and provoke the person that they disagree with.

Many far-left Democrats and progressives are incapable of admitting that they are ever wrong.

It is my opinion that Biden's support for Ukraine in this war is a waste of lives, money, and resources. Biden has dismissed China's offer to help negotiate peace, but Zelenskyy has agreed to meet with them for the purpose of ending the crisis. He's probably realized that Biden has taken him on a ride with a very high price tag. If Russia and Ukraine negotiate a settlement, Zelenskyy will no doubt be required to give part of Ukraine to Russia, which he has always insisted is unacceptable. If he still felt that this was the best course of action, he would not be interested in talking to China.

Zelenskyy plans to meet Xi Jinping after China proposes Russia peace plan

 

[Lane]

Yeah and there's a reason why Russia is in the eastern part of Ukraine because it was already filled with Russians before the war, so the locals were less likely to support Ukraine's side.

The Russians certainly did believe Russian speaking Ukrainians would welcome them as liberators. To their shock and dismay, this did not happen, with Russian speaking Ukrainians every bit as much resisting the Russian invasion as everybody else. Which shouldn't have been surprising. Why would "anyone" choose subjugation of freedom?

Russia has long held the position that it reserved the "right" to invade any country to supposedly protect Russian speaking minorities in that country. But when the Russian speaking Ukrainians rejected the Russians, they were so infuriated by their "ingratitude" that they inflicted some of their worst torture and executions on them, ironically, those they long professed to want to defend.

 

[Rockstar]

It is my opinion that Biden's support for Ukraine in this war is a waste of lives, money, and resources. Biden has dismissed China's offer to help negotiate peace, but Zelenskyy has agreed to meet with them for the purpose of ending the crisis.

Biden and his government have been destroying relations with everyone that it can backfire one day.

The African leaders are calling him dismissive too, so not only the Chinese and Saudi Arabians.

This woman from Africa says his "progressive" idpol obsessed government is racist. She says him and his henchmen treats them like they are too stupid to think on their own. Says they would rather deal with Russia and China:



I can relate to some of what she is saying as a lot of Neo-Libs are like that. If they feel they can't force their way on you, they can get very condescending and go straight to petty insults like one we may know.

As one person from Ghana I know said "I can deal with ignorance but not arrogance".

If the country is going to lose world influence, then at least have good relations.

Have you seen the Africans and Haitians waving Russian flags? These are recent:

The "global south" is turning more pro-Russia+Pro-China. They have most of the worlds natural resources and he's angering them all like telling them to change their governments; absolutely arrogant.

Despite Biden getting good PR, he is more hated by the global south than Trump. A famine is worsening in Somalia after Biden reversed Trump's troops withdrawal there.

 

[Rockstar]

The Russians certainly did believe Russian speaking Ukrainians would welcome them as liberators. To their shock and dismay, this did not happen, with Russian speaking Ukrainians every bit as much resisting the Russian invasion as everybody else. Which shouldn't have been surprising. Why would "anyone" choose subjugation of freedom?

Russia has long held the position that it reserved the "right" to invade any country to supposedly protect Russian speaking minorities in that country. But when the Russian speaking Ukrainians rejected the Russians, they were so infuriated by their "ingratitude" that they inflicted some of their worst torture and executions on them, ironically, those they long professed to want to defend.

Out of over 8 million ethnic Russians living in Ukraine, I'm sure there's some that don't like Russia.

The point is that there's less pushback from ethnic Russians compared to ethnic Ukrainians. Search "Russian language Ukraine map" on Google images and it aligns up with the land Russia has now.

Look at what happened in Crimea after Russia took it over in 2014. There was little to no real fight there because it was the most ethnic Russian part of Ukraine.

There's a reason why even before the war, there was already an armed conflict between the Ukrainian government and ethnic Russians.

There's even organizations such as Amnesty International who reported that the Ukrainians did commit war crimes by bombing ethnic Russian civilians and this was before the war. This is coming from a British source, so not Russian TV.

Whether the support from ethnic Russians is a small difference or not, it is true that ethnic Russians have a different mindset. Their language alone influences it too. They still use VK which is the Russian Facebook and they still get pro-Russian propaganda that way.

 

[Jammer]

If you are referring to me as a "Republican", you are wrong. I voted for Obama twice and Hillary. If Biden had selected a halfway decent VP, I might have voted for him, but he chose a half-wit for political reasons and to protect himself from being impeached. I voted for Trump in 2020, and I'm not sorry.

As far at that article, it means nothing. It is an attempt to legitimize the importation of desperate people that can be exploited by the moneyed supporters of Biden. I have nothing against immigration, but the policies that Biden has put forward flooded the country with people that were not processed the right way. The major cities where they are sent cannot afford them. New York City, for instance, is a sanctuary city with a Democratic mayor, Eric Adams, and he has told Biden that we cannot afford to care for any more of them.

It's going to stop, one way or another. No other president has done what Biden has, whether Republican or Democrat.

Democratic Mayor Eric Adams, Oct. 2022, New York City:

"Hundreds of buses have arrived in New York City. Since early September, we have seen an average of five to six buses per day. Yesterday, at least nine buses arrived.

The majority are adults who cannot legally work in this country. Many are families with school-aged children. Some are in desperate need of serious medical care.

New York City has helped them all.

But extending that care has come at great cost to our city and our people. The asylum seekers arriving here need more than a hot meal or a bed for a night. Without the ability to work legally in this country, they need long-term shelter, health care, and a great deal of institutional support. It is straining the limits of our ability to provide care for New Yorkers in need, and it is burning through our city's budget. We expect to spend at least $1 billion by the end of the fiscal year on this crisis. All because we have a functional and compassionate system.

Our right-to-shelter laws, our social services, and our values are being exploited by others for political gain.

New Yorkers are angry. I am angry, too.

We have not asked for this. There was never any agreement to take on the job of supporting thousands of asylum seekers. This responsibility was simply handed to us without warning as buses began showing up. There is no playbook for this, no precedent." NYC Mayor Eric Adams, Oct. 2022.

When people get desperate, like you obviously are, they try to obscure the issue and provoke the person that they disagree with.

Many far-left Democrats and progressives are incapable of admitting that they are ever wrong.

It is my opinion that Biden's support for Ukraine in this war is a waste of lives, money, and resources. Biden has dismissed China's offer to help negotiate peace, but Zelenskyy has agreed to meet with them for the purpose of ending the crisis. He's probably realized that Biden has taken him on a ride with a very high price tag. If Russia and Ukraine negotiate a settlement, Zelenskyy will no doubt be required to give part of Ukraine to Russia, which he has always insisted is unacceptable. If he still felt that this was the best course of action, he would not be interested in talking to China.

I'm curious how a left leaning Biden supporter, like you, decided that 'Hillary good, Trump bad' in 2016 and then changed to 'Trump good' at the 2020 election. Quite a switch and I'd like to know what info sources changed your mind about Trump. That's all.

I'll understand if you neglect to answer; one will assume that you're not who you say you are, which is fine. Tough to admit when you're wrong.

 

[Rockstar]

I'm curious how a left leaning Biden supporter, like you, decided that 'Hillary good, Trump bad' in 2016 and then changed to 'Trump good' at the 2020 election. Quite a switch and I'd like to know what info sources changed your mind about Trump. That's all.

I'll understand if you neglect to answer; one will assume that you're not who you say you are, which is fine. Tough to admit when you're wrong.

People like him with that switch aren't too uncommon though. Trump in 2020 had a sizeable increase in his shares of minority voters for example:

US election 2020: Why Trump gained support among minorities

From some people part of the minority groups I have spoken to, a common occurrence that gets said is that the Democrats are just taking advantage of them using idpol rhetoric. They call it patronizing whilst their living standards decrease. They want more focus on class, not idpol.

Middle class Democrat voter's, despite virtue signalling about tolerance and helping the poor, would always vote against social housing in their area where the jobs are at. Fox news isn't saying this, search "liberal hypocrisy is fueling inequality".

Blue cities tend to be unique when it comes to the homeless tent slums, so it's probably true:

Jimmy Dore had faith in the Democrats before but then he became "politically homeless". He said if he had a gun pointed to his head to choose between Biden and Trump, he says Trump because at least no new invasion started under Trump. Obama went from 2 wars to 7:

 

[Luman]

I'm curious how a left leaning Biden supporter, like you, decided that 'Hillary good, Trump bad' in 2016 and then changed to 'Trump good' at the 2020 election. Quite a switch and I'd like to know what info sources changed your mind about Trump. That's all.

I'll understand if you neglect to answer; one will assume that you're not who you say you are, which is fine. Tough to admit when you're wrong.

I have said many times, that in 2016 we were told that Trump would destroy the economy and the country. This is why I voted for Clinton. I do not need a "source" to assess how I voted in 2020. Trump's administration did not ruin the economy, start a war, or otherwise destroy the country. As president, Trump was about average, and quite successful in a number of ways. I cannot say the same for Biden. His mishandling of the Afghanistan withdrawal, the economy, COVID-19, crime, the Border Crisis, illegal immigration, and now the Ukraine war, has been atrocious. But since you do not see it this way, and agree with Biden's policies and actions, I will say no more.

Zelenskyy would be wise to forget about Biden and find a workable way to achieve peace in his country.

 

[ZFire]

The whole 'Bakhmut is surrounded and remaining Ukrainian forces are screwed' narrative sounds like standard Russian psyops to me. It is largely based on Russian propagandist maps. I believe that at some point it will fall, but just like with Severodonetsk and Lysychansk, there's going to be a planned and methodical withdrawal. Ukrainian forces are disciplined.

It is my opinion that Biden's support for Ukraine in this war is a waste of lives, money, and resources. Biden has dismissed China's offer to help negotiate peace, but Zelenskyy has agreed to meet with them for the purpose of ending the crisis. He's probably realized that Biden has taken him on a ride with a very high price tag. If Russia and Ukraine negotiate a settlement, Zelenskyy will no doubt be required to give part of Ukraine to Russia, which he has always insisted is unacceptable. If he still felt that this was the best course of action, he would not be interested in talking to China.

Lol. I thought we were told from those sipping on that Russian propaganda Kool-Aid that Zelenskyy is a US puppet.

Xi meeting him would counter a lot of the dumb Russian talking points, but it's smart of Zelenskyy to ask as it forces China to show how serious they really are about peace, especially given the recent intelligence on possible Chinese military aid/sales to Russia.

But Xi won't meet Zelenskyy though. In his mind, he views Zelenskyy below him. I expect a worthless phone call at best and let's be real, China's 12 point peace plan is in favor of Russian interest. If Ukraine is going to give up their territory, they will want security guarantees from NATO, which is ironic because it would destroy this whole narrative—NATO is the cause for the war— that Russia (and China) have claimed since the start lol.

There's even organizations such as Amnesty International who reported that the Ukrainians did commit war crimes by bombing ethnic Russian civilians and this was before the war. This is coming from a British source, so not Russian TV.

How much are the troll farms paying you? The irony here is that they never bring up casualties on the other side in these discussions. They somehow think that a BM-21 Grad from the outskirts of Donetsk will magically only hit Ukrainian armed forces, and not Ukrainian civilians on the other end. Separatists are known to hide behind civilians, but the discussion never goes that way. Geez, I wonder why.

Anyways, Russian apologists, bots, and 'pacifists' always spout this lie that 'Ukraine is/has committed a genocide in the Donbas region'.

The UN mission on Donbass (Russia was a member of btw) counted every civilian death in the region, both in the Ukrainian and rebel sides. 27 civilian casualties in 2019, 26 in 2020, and 25 in 2021. But Russian trolls would have you think that Ukrainians were committing relentless 'massacres'.

Dombed Bombas for 8 years!

 

[Luman]

The whole 'Bakhmut is surrounded and remaining Ukrainian forces are screwed' narrative sounds like standard Russian psyops to me. It is largely based on Russian propagandist maps. I believe that at some point it will fall, but just like with Severodonetsk and Lysychansk, there's going to be a planned and methodical withdrawal. Ukrainian forces are disciplined.

Lol. I thought we were told from those sipping on that Russian propaganda Kool-Aid that Zelenskyy is a US puppet.

Xi meeting him would counter a lot of the dumb Russian talking points, but it's smart of Zelenskyy to ask as it forces China to show how serious they really are about peace, especially given the recent intelligence on possible Chinese military aid/sales to Russia.

But Xi won't meet Zelenskyy though. In his mind, he views Zelenskyy below him. I expect a worthless phone call at best and let's be real, China's 12 point peace plan is in favor of Russian interest. If Ukraine is going to give up their territory, they will want security guarantees from NATO, which is ironic because it would destroy this whole narrative—NATO is the cause for the war— that Russia (and China) have claimed since the start lol.

How much are the troll farms paying you? The irony here is that they never bring up casualties on the other side in these discussions. They somehow think that a BM-21 Grad from the outskirts of Donetsk will magically only hit Ukrainian armed forces, and not Ukrainian civilians on the other end. Separatists are known to hide behind civilians, but the discussion never goes that way. Geez, I wonder why.

Anyways, Russian apologists, bots, and 'pacifists' always spout this lie that 'Ukraine is/has committed a genocide in the Donbas region'.

The UN mission on Donbass (Russia was a member of btw) counted every civilian death in the region, both in the Ukrainian and rebel sides. 27 civilian casualties in 2019, 26 in 2020, and 25 in 2021. But Russian trolls would have you think that Ukrainians were committing relentless 'massacres'.

Dombed Bombas for 8 years!

Ukraine is eventually going to lose territory to Russia. Ukrainian President Zelenskyy might as well get it over with now by negotiating with Russia, thereby saving lives and limiting other destruction.

 

[just1morething]

His mishandling of the Afghanistan withdrawal, the economy, COVID-19, crime, the Border Crisis, illegal immigration, and now the Ukraine war, has been atrocious. But since you do not see it this way, and agree with Biden's policies and actions, I will say no more.

Zelenskyy would be wise to forget about Biden and find a workable way to achieve peace in his country.

Obama once said, "Don't underestimate Joe's ability to "F" things up." Have we underestimated Joe?

Not at all. The old turd is performing exactly as expected. He's appointed all the expected fruitcakes to cabinet positions, and done the work of his handlers with the exact lack of vigor and cognition we knew was to be. He can't speak off the teleprompter and won't take questions, avoids the real press, has capitulated to our enemies, destroyed our economy and weakened our standing in the world. He's a fuck up, alright. His son is a disaster! His whole damn family are a bunch of crooks. No, he was not underestimated.

 

[ZFire]

No one ever addresses my points on peace negotiations with Russian and how the stipulations would play out. Lol.

 

[Rockstar]

The whole 'Bakhmut is surrounded and remaining Ukrainian forces are screwed' narrative sounds like standard Russian psyops to me.

What? So the BBC is Russian propaganda? They're funded by the British government who are the second biggest funders of Ukraine's war. Not even them, but many pro-Ukraine sources are painting a bleak picture recently and talking about a potential evacuation:

Ukraine steps up efforts to get civilians out of Bakhmut, in a further sign of a potential retreat

How much are the troll farms paying you?

Straight to being condescending, I knew it.

Not everyone you disagree with is part of some foreign government troll farm. The people who do this have turned into a meme because of how repetitive and funny it's turned into. Instead of accepting the hard to swallow pills, it's straight to petty insults calling everyone they disagree with a Russian bot hahaha. BBC painting a bleak picture in Bakhmut aren't pushing a Russian psyop either. This is getting sad bro.

I spoke to someone years ago who was similar about the Syrian civil war. He was saying everyone that disagreed with him on Syria's government losing is a Russian bot. You know, because Assad is friends with Russia? He was a bloodthirsty Neo-Con who had an unhealthy fixation with starting World War III over Syria just to own the Russians. He wanted NATO to be in Syria (Russia was in Syria too).

At the end, Assad's government is basically in control of Syria! The mentioned Neo-Con ended up being suspended at one point because he kept going too far with personal insults on the forum. He lacked self-control with his anger issues.

To answer your question, sadly they haven't sent me a payment for months now and they keep ignoring my emails and calls. I heard the Pentagon have been caught making fake accounts on social media, so maybe I could apply to work there?

The irony here is that they never bring up casualties on the other side in these discussions. They somehow think that a BM-21 Grad from the outskirts of Donetsk will magically only hit Ukrainian armed forces, and not Ukrainian civilians on the other end. Separatists are known to hide behind civilians, but the discussion never goes that way. Geez, I wonder why.

Yeah no one's denying in a war, that there is probably some collateral damage from both sides?

Ethnic Russian minorities having no skeletons in their closets was not the point in my post about why the area that Russia has now aligns up well with the "Russian language in Ukraine map". They're mostly in the Eastern part of Ukraine, and that's where they're starting their "slow burn" because there's less pushback there. Kinda like how Syria's government started their slow burn from where they were most supported before they won.

You think the Taliban quickly taking over Afghanistan with no pushback from their own people happens for no reason? They bombed civilians before, yet the Pentagon was shocked to see they took over faster than the prediction they had made. I know Joey B was an imbecile with his withdrawal, but the point is that these people can think for themselves. If they don't pushback as much, then it's for a reason.

Similar reasons why South Vietnam was taken over quickly too after the withdrawal, because the Vietnamese have their own experiences with My Lai Massacre and can think on their own and choose their own path.

 

[Jammer]

I have said many times, that in 2016 we were told that Trump would destroy the economy and the country. This is why I voted for Clinton. I do not need a "source" to assess how I voted in 2020. Trump's administration did not ruin the economy, start a war, or otherwise destroy the country. As president, Trump was about average, and quite successful in a number of ways. I cannot say the same for Biden. His mishandling of the Afghanistan withdrawal, the economy, COVID-19, crime, the Border Crisis, illegal immigration, and now the Ukraine war, has been atrocious. But since you do not see it this way, and agree with Biden's policies and actions, I will say no more.

Zelenskyy would be wise to forget about Biden and find a workable way to achieve peace in his country.

Same 'ol response that I was expecting.

You're also on the wrong side of history - Trump places 4th worst president based upon presidential Historians.

Presidential HIstorians Survey 2021

 

[Rockstar]

Obama once said, "Don't underestimate Joe's ability to "F" things up."

The people of Afghanistan seem to agree and celebrated about it:

 

[ZFire]

What? So the BBC is Russian propaganda? They're funded by the British government who are the second biggest funders of Ukraine's war. Not even them, but many pro-Ukraine sources are painting a bleak picture recently and talking about a potential evacuation:

You need to read my post again. I was referring to all this talk making rounds in social media the last 2 days about Russia quickly swarming around Bakhmut and encircling Ukrainian troops. People thought it was only going to be a matter of hours before it was overrun by Russian forces. Did you also miss the part where I said I expect Bakhmut to fall at some point? Don't put words in my mouth.

Not everyone you disagree with is part of some foreign government troll farm. The people who do this have turned into a meme because of how repetitive and funny it's turned into. Instead of accepting the hard to swallow pills, it's straight to petty insults calling everyone they disagree with a Russian bot hahaha. BBC painting a bleak picture in Bakhmut aren't pushing a Russian psyop either. This is getting sad bro.

What's more sad is I've yet to see you criticize Russia or Putin in this thread. Your timeline on this forum is a bit strange if I may so. You sign up on a tinnitus support community forum about a week ago and post mostly in this thread (and the US Presidential Elections thread), spouting half truths, misconstruing things, and undermining the war effort for Ukraine. I think I'm warranted in finding you suspicious.

How about you start posting more in tinnitus related topics, maybe then I'll start to take you seriously.

 

[Luman]

Same 'ol response that I was expecting.

You're also on the wrong side of history - Trump places 4th worst president based upon presidential Historians.

I have seen that before. The worst president in history was, in my opinion, Abraham Lincoln. Yes, I know that most people consider him to be either the best or in the top five. But I would rank Trump as a better president, and all others to various degrees better than "Honest Abe", even Biden (so far). And no, I am not a Southerner or a proponent of slavery.

The people who voted in that poll were not "presidential historians", whatever that means. Their values play into it, most were teachers, who are not necessarily correct when it comes to political opinions. They might know all about all of the presidents, but the question of "best" and "worst" is very subjective. Teachers are usually very liberal-minded, therefore will not think much of Donald Trump, whom they would consider to be very conservative, which he is not.

Biden is trailing Trump in the 2024 presidential polls. Tell that to your "presidential historians".