War in Ukraine — Megathread

Russia entirely destroyed the largest power-generating plant in Ukraine's Kyiv region in a missile attack today.

The Trypilska Thermal Power Plant (TPP), the largest supplier of electricity to Kyiv, Cherkasy and Zhytomyr regions, was completely destroyed.

Protecting this is what we are not funding with our tax dollars due to Trump's wishes, a spineless House speaker and the GOP.

 

I wish the Democrats were as worried about the U.S. border as they are about the Ukraine border. Criminals and terrorists are probably coming through our southern border, but the Democrats don’t care. Most Americans don’t want to fund a forever war when we have our own problems at home to deal with.

Ukraine is not a NATO nation.

 

To what end?

I agree with you on this. The US is turning to shit while foreign politicians are lining their pockets.

 

I think the picture you paint is too optimistic.

The way that I see it is that this "military intervention" is similar to a mugging taking place on the main street. Of course, the passers-by are shocked, but they are afraid to intervene because they know that they will have the s**t beaten out of them if they do. The assailants have it well figured out. It's "pour encourager lest autres" or more accurately "pour décourager les autres". The bad lads have the population intimidated or conditioned to expect that whoever comes to the aid of the victims will get very cruel treatment, like the mafia and the Omerta rule in Sicily.

So, how much "pain" should the Western powers allow Ukraine to suffer?

Loss of Crimea? Already done and dusted.

Loss of Donbass? Ditto.

And also that place called Transnistria which used to be part of Moldova... It's Russian now.

Chechnya and Parts of Georgia... part of Russia effectively.

In my view, Putin might stop once he conquers all of Urkaine... but hope shouldn't be a security policy.

 

There is no chance Putin will conquer all of Ukraine. Even high-tech Israel can't subdue a bunch of Hamas. We are talking about a huge country such as Ukraine. Why are you fear-mongering? Putin could not even conquer Nicholaev - a key city stronghold and gateway to Odessa.

Have you seen The Sopranos episode "Pine Barrens"? If you did, you will get my joke:

What's Putin gonna conquer all of Ukraine with, his cock?

 

Duh... you're American, right? Well, Canada is a suburb of Boston.

But answer me this: What became of all the Indians? Not many left now, huh?

And Putin knows what to do. He's following Josef Stalin's playbook. The Crimea was at one time peopled by the Tartars. He banished them all to Siberia. And all those children that Putin "rescued" and gave out for adoption when he took them to Russia? Once a dictator has tight military control of a place, he'll control the media and the press, and he'll decide who lives where (and for how long -- RIP Navalny).

Just do a Google image search on Grozny, the capital of Chechnya. They revolted against Russia, and the Rooskies blew the bejesus out of their capital city, Grozny. We don't know the casualty rate.

Now, not only are they passive and obedient, but many of them are zealous and loyal fighters for the Russian Empire.

Might is right! Or something like that.

 

Ukraine is bearing the brunt of Russian brutality and is literally shielding Europe right now. A lot of people do not understand what is at stake in this war. Russia already has a foothold with occupied territories. If Ukraine falls, Georgia is next, then Moldova, the Baltics, Belarus, Serbia (willingly), and so on.

Putin has made it painfully clear that he wants to rebuild the empire and will do so by force if necessary. Now, not at all saying he will be successful, but when someone tells you who they are, believe them. However, Russia also talks a lot of shit, but we should not let our guard down, and we should not stop arming Ukraine.

The world is so interconnected now that what’s happening in Ukraine has consequences for millions of people in Europe, Central Asia, and other places around the world.

Even if it’s not a monetary ROI, our continued security is the ROI. The US not having to send troops and be in direct confrontation with Russia is also the ROI. Slava Ukraini!

 

A UK military strategist has been explaining how Russia could win the war this year.

I do wonder how things will look if/when Russia does win.

Imagine the billions that have been pumped into that war by the West and the numbers killed.

It would mean a fast Russian victory would have been a less worse outcome. Still - Russia will be stuck with the repair bill if they win, as I presume they will install a puppet government and need to get the infrastructure working once more.

 

Yeah, I think many people don’t realize that Russia and Putin are playing a different game with different rules. Their embedded servility, or to put it better, their slave hivemind mentality, is really their greatest strength. Russia has proven throughout its history and once again in Ukraine that it is absolutely willing to burn the lives of its own citizens at a rate and scale that is unfathomable to the Western world. And the Russians just accept it like it’s nothing. Russians live in alternative reality it seems, like it’s the feudal times.

Seriously, if 800 US soldiers were to die in a single day, protests would be erupting in the streets immediately. When 800 Russian troops perish in a single day, no one cares or notices in Russia. Their lives have no value over there.

People were saying there was no way Putin would invade Ukraine after annexing Crimea, and yet here we are. Appeasement and permitting land grabs only embolden aggression. Little by little, Russia will try to eat away at Ukraine.

So you can spare me the fear-mongering nonsense. Your Israeli/Hamas comparison makes no sense either.

If Ukraine falls because the USA is bogged down due to internal political fighting (thanks to MAGA/pro-Russian Republican scumbags), it will just make the US lose credibility on the world stage. Countries will start to look for other alliances and probably make compromises that don’t involve the US because we can’t be trusted to help our allies when the time calls for it. Mike Johnson and the rest of these trumpets in the GOP need to go. Making us look weaker and weaker by the day.

It's also beyond ridiculous, considering the massive US defense budget every year, and what the heck do we have to show for it? We can't even do the bare minimum to protect our allies by giving away our old stuff, which will likely be scrapped or replaced in a few years, which is ironic because it costs more money to decommission stuff at the scrapyard.

Plus, all those older weapons will be replaced with newer stuff, which will strengthen our military and create jobs for Americans, too. There is literally no downside to helping Ukraine in its fight against those barbaric invading savages.

From the Washington Post, Here is the best-kept secret about U.S. military aid to Ukraine: Most of the money is being spent here in the United States:

 

The downside is more dead bodies and more badly injured bodies. A few Americans have fought alongside the Ukrainian soldiers, and some have died doing so. Would you be willing to join them and possibly sacrifice your own life for the cause? I would doubt it. As Trump said, stop the killing and have a peace negotiation.

 

It’s bizarre how you want to dismiss the agency of Ukrainians—wanting to defend their sovereignty against Russia— in this matter. They know that appeasing Putin will only postpone the inevitable.

 

It’s inevitable that Ukraine will run out of troops. I think the average age of their troops is 43-45 years old. Why more killing if Putin will negotiate? I realize Putin is a dictator, but maybe he can be sensible to a certain degree. I thought Ukraine was a corrupt country?

Speaker Johnson wanted an audit and an objective or endgame. Otherwise, people are just killing each other with, at best, a stalemate until Ukraine runs out of troops. Biden is a certified imbecile; he doesn’t know what to do.

 

In the 2020 census, 9.6 million Native Americans lived in the United States, or 2.9 percent of the population.

 

I like how you added a “maybe” here. Tells me all I knew to know about your uncertainty.

And negotiate about what exactly? I notice you guys never want to answer this question and get into the specifics. Putin has already said many times that he does not consider Ukraine a nation. Let that sink in for a bit.

To your question, corruption exists in Ukraine, but dismantling a system that has been deeply entrenched in corruption for over 70+ years doesn’t happen overnight. Ukraine was under Russian rule for so long and got so heavily infected by Russian corruption. These things take time to recover from. You do realize that Ukraine was working on correcting this since Zelensky was elected? They’ve were making strives of wanting to become a free and democratic nation prior to Russia invading…

 

Self-declared wannabes, so that would encompass people whose cousin or aunt was Indian.

Some gene-analysis sampling would throw some light and truth on the matter.

 

Indians disagree with DNA testing; very few are willing to take the tests, and when they do, there is usually not enough data to determine much. I doubt there are many, if any, with what would be considered "pure" AmerIndian DNA.

My DNA tests with several major DHA companies (Ancestry, 23andMe, etc.) did not show any AmerIndian genes, as they do not test very far back, but when I submitted the data to a respected 3rd party, I was found to have a small amount of AmerIndian DNA, including the Clovis marker and Kennewick. This ancestry would likely have been from the 17th century, when a Dutch settler in the very remote Mohawk Valley, New Netherland, where I have known ancestry, took an Indian wife. I have not proven that the female ancestor that I suspect had Amerindian ancestry, as her parents have not been identified.

 

In a big win for Ukraine and the Democratic party, the US House of Representatives passed a $61B military aid package today.

Nancy Pelosi perfectly summed up the stakes before the vote:

House Speaker Johnson, you did the right thing. Our glasses may be different colors, but helping Ukraine defend against a 21st-century tyrant will help the U.S., despite many being unable to see that.

The saddest part of the vote was nearly half of the majority voting against it. Ukraine could have had this military aid many months ago, along with overhauling US border policy, if it were not for the criminally indicted Trump telling the Republican hard-liners that they couldn't give Biden a win, as he needs to bang the border drum to keep the MAGAs enraged.

I'm pretty sure Johnson has seen intelligence briefings showing how serious the shit got. Obviously, many Republicans now support Ukraine and Israel. Iran's attack and Russia’s infrastructure destructions last week were also likely catalysts to get this done.

Looking at Johnson, he's gone from being a nothing Christian nationalist with his head up his ass to getting grade-A intelligence on what's actually happening. If he thinks Ukraine will fall and Poland could be next with possible direct US war involvement, then it's his fault and the Republicans'.

I believe the Democrats will keep him in power if he continues to thread the needle. This is how it should work, where the extreme right-wing gets cut out of the decision-making by actual bi-partisan deal-making (even though until recently, he would have been one of those on the hard right).

 

Let’s hope it’s not too late...

The Republicans need an absolute purge of the MAGA now. It’s become painfully obvious these loonies are holding a once dignified party hostage. We really need the old guards back in the GOP, especially now with the way these authoritative nations like Russia, Iran, North Korea, and China (axis of evil) are acting. We need those GOP hawks back because they will stand against these evil doers without question.

Seriously, if the party of Reagan were still around, Russia would already be on its knees. If they were given the chance to finish off Russia for good, they’d jump on it immediately. They’d put the Ukrainians in a position to wipe out little Ivan. God, where’s John McCain when you need him...

 

It is...

 

It looks to me that Russia will not give up on Ukraine, regardless of what weaponry Biden or any other country throws at the problem.

No one is sending any troops to help Ukraine, but Russia has a near-limitless supply.

It doesn’t take someone with a degree in military history to work out where this is going.

Ukraine is going to lose out and possibly lose BIG.

This isn’t Vietnam or Afghanistan; it's the entire Russian army.

There are probably several more years of this war to go. The West supplying weaponry will help the war go on for longer, but the end is inevitable. Once Ukraine's soldiers are perished to the extent they can't hold their positions, then the Russians will easily push on, as far as they please, into Ukraine. Who's going to stop them? Certainly not any NATO countries.

The threat of nuclear weapons is what keeps this war churning on. If there hadn't been nuclear weapons, foreign troops would have been sent in a long time ago.

 

Besides the US, the following countries are also giving military aid to Ukraine:

• Germany
• United Kingdom
• Denmark
• European Union
• The Netherlands
• Norway
• Poland

I wonder why?

 

The answer is money. It's always the answer. War brings profit, which rides over death. Simple as that.

 

Nothing like Mike reviewing “the global consequences of inaction” to cut through the political bullshit. If Ukraine falls, Russia will be emboldened to attack NATO countries, or even more likely; if it looks like Ukraine is about to fall and Ukrainians flee west in massive numbers to try and escape the Vatnik Murder horde, there's a high risk of Article 5 being triggered and the US and Europe are dragged into the war. Johnson's name would be the one to be remembered like Chamberlain's. The costs of aiding Ukraine now are a fraction of those that would come from allowing Russia to become too big a threat to Europe. Look at Nazi Germany as an example of how this scenario has played out a century ago.

The alternative is to send gear, weapons, and ammo to Ukraine, help them fight off the Russian threat, and not only will the US not need to engage directly, but one of their two biggest Geopolitical opponents will be crippled decisively by their own arrogance and stupidity and rendered an impotent threat for years if not decades as all the consequences of their folly come home to bite them in the ass. Best of all, the US would likely be able to sign agreements with Ukraine for joint bases and projection, and the Ukrainians would be able to bring their experience in fighting Russia, as well as their expertise in drone warfare, to the table. Ukraine, Europe, and the US win big, and Russia gets what's coming.

Finally, China, if Ukraine wins, China will be significantly kowtowed from launching any sort of attack on Taiwan, as the costs will far outweigh any ephemeral benefits of such a reckless action. Xi is lowkey supporting Putin, but the point of this "aid" is not only to help an ally but to modernize and equip the US with the newest equipment while sending a message to aggressors that the price for invading other peaceful countries and engaging in vainglorious wars is far too costly and that only peaceful means are acceptable.

 

Just money?

Many historians of the Second World War say that it did not begin with the invasion of Poland. It began with the annexation of all of Czechoslovakia, not just the Sudetenland.

Why is this?

Quite simple. When all the smaller neighboring countries of Central and Eastern Europe saw what had happened, they began to feverishly court good relations and make alliances with Nazi Germany, out of fear of being gobbled up like the Czechs. The Treaty of Versailles was dead. Don't you see parallels with Russia and Ukraine? This time, it's not just Europe that's looking on.

 

Nazi Germany was a war machine with full mobilization and all industries geared for wartime production.

This cannot be said about Russia here; it's not even close. People in Moscow, Leningrad, and other major cities, for the most part, live oblivious to the war in Ukraine. Life is normal; people go to work as usual and vacations, that's why it's called a special military operation there, as opposed to wartime. If Russia went to full-on war, trust me, you would know it! Right now, it's Mickey Mouse contract soldiers and convict brigades. Remember what Russia did to Germany once its war machine was awakened; the German army was annihilated by the might of the full Russian mobilization.

Russia has no interest in going all Ghengis Khan on Europe, which would not be supported by the majority of Russians. Russia currently neither has the financial nor military resources to capture any European country, let alone confront NATO; there is no chance in hell.

You must understand the Russian mentality. Russians sleep until you poke the bear and start killing millions of Russians while advancing on their country, but once you do that, you have woken the bear and get ready to get pummelled.

 

MP for Leicestershire West has spoken out:

UK Already at War with Russia!

You missed France.

 

If Trump wins the White House, it will all be up in the air.

Will he stay away from the war and stop sending ammunition?

Will he send ammo only if the Europeans fund it -- or send their stuff first?

Will he stop the war within 24 hours, as he once announced? Presumably, that means giving Putin free rein.

 

If Trump is elected, I hope he will begin a timeline to stop the billions we're giving to Ukraine and tell them they should start negotiations with Russia. If they refuse, let Europe deal with it; we've already given them enough.

 

• https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/SI6fg2FSrm
• https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/I946xinlGm
• https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/9NLulqVz3N

A quick little reminder where Western billions are going.