War in Ukraine — Megathread

Pope Francis has said in an interview that Ukraine should "raise the white flag" and negotiate an end to the war with Russia. He used the term "defeated", as well. I am not a member of his faith or a fan, but he says or does something worthwhile, once in a while, and this is one of those instances.

 

I don’t think I’ve ever read this thread; it was certainly an interesting read. But I’ll throw my two cents in that nobody asked for.

I have a few Russian friends and have met their families; they come back and forth, so I have a good handle on both sides of things.

Without being able to say who’s right and who’s wrong, their take is simply that Western propaganda is just as strong as Russian propaganda.

 

Here's a thought...

If Russia stops fighting, there will be no more war, but if Ukraine stops fighting, there will be no more Ukraine.

 

ISIS in Russia? I mean, I think Russia’s a hopeless and hellish nation, but there’s no denying that ISIS is reprehensible and beyond scum as well. It always has been. This must be the result of Russia annexing all those Muslim territories over the centuries and those territories being big pockets of current ISIS terrorists.

It's also insane that the attackers got away... Putin, the Russian government, and police incompetence are on full display here. Bet they’ll somehow attribute the attack to Ukraine like the scumbags that they are.

Also:

Putin dismissed US warnings about a potential terror incident as 'blackmail' just 3 days before concert hall attack.

US intelligence has been so on point these past few years. Russia is waving warnings from the West of a terror attack, and Putin is calling it ‘provocative,’ lmao. Typical. Maybe this will wake the Russkis up from their slave hiveminds on how shite their dictator is. Wishful thinking, perhaps.

 

Right on cue, here come the Russian lies, as expected... such a disgusting country:

In First Remarks on Attack, Putin Tries to Link Assailants to Ukraine

ISIS must be pissed, lol. They can’t even get credit for the terrorist plot in which they’ve claimed full responsibility for. I bet they weren't expecting this amount of delusion from the Russians]

 

Where's the irrefutable proof that this was ISIS? They've claimed to be behind so many attacks that they weren't behind whatsoever. A picture with blurred faces (how convenient) released a day after isn't evidence.

Also, since when do ISIS terrorists accept payment for committing terrorist acts?

 

To be fair, Isis would claim responsibility for my tinnitus if they were aware of it

 

I thought just a preponderance of evidence is all that is required to id an ISIS member. ISIS doesn't issue IDs like the Taliban.

 

Islamic State Khorasan (ISIS-K), to be exact. Looking this over, it seems since November or so, there's been a steady stream of counterterrorism intel pointing to ISIS-K gearing up for attacks in Russia.

I mean, even if you don’t believe that, which we know you won’t, the IC literally shared anti-terrorism intel (dutifully, I might add) early this month to Russia, warning them of a potential attack by Islamic militants. The US embassy was warning American citizens in Russia to avoid large gatherings... literally trying to save lives, all part of their responsibilities. Russia chose to ignore it, even worse, calling the intel ‘provocative’ and ‘blackmail.’ The attack did happen, did it not? And Putin failed to heed the warnings from the US that extremists were plotting to target Moscow. That’s the reality.

Apparently, there’s also footage of these attackers filming themselves, slitting the throats of victims in the theater while shouting something about Allah being great and infidels being defeated. Those brutal tactics are the kind of shit you would see from Islamic extremists anyhow. But I digress.

Not sure what you’re on about here, but okay.

If anything, these terrorists were probably like, "wtf, we've been shooting and executing people for an hour now, and nobody has shown up to try and stop us so we could go out killing ourselves; what do we do now?" The one-hour response time by Russian law enforcement is beyond shocking and pathetic. Well, no, not really. It’s Russia, after all.

In the end, since Russia is involved in this tragic event, we’ll never know the true story behind this (the aftermath), as it surely will be twisted into propaganda that serves Putin's ego and goals. Whatever narrative helps him the most will be the one that gets shoved down the Russian populace’s throat. The slave hive mind binds Russia together.

Regardless, the US did the right thing here by warning them because it’s still important to maintain deconfliction lines even with our adversaries. The US also did the same thing with Iran recently as well..

The US intelligence gathering has once again shown to be top notch and everywhere.

Just look at what they’ve done these past few years. They caught wind that Russia was planning to invade Ukraine months in advance, gave signals intelligence and real-time satellite imagery to the Ukrainians and Israelis to fight Russia and Hamas, and lastly, provided counter-terrorism data to our adversaries even (Iran and Russia) to alert them that Islamic extremists are planning an attack on their soil. I mean... let’s give our intelligence officers Medal of Honors here... they’re putting in the work.

 

As a Russian who was born in Estonia, who has been living in Estonia their entire life, who has lots of relatives in Russia and who often goes to Russia, I have to say this to you, @ZFire:

You often call my fatherland pathetic, disgusting, etc. Really? Our Moscow Grand Theatre is seven years older than your country. My country's Christian history is more than one thousand years old. The number of scientists, artists, composers, etc. is astonishing and breathtaking. The greatness of Russian history and culture is unmatchable. And you think that you can teach us how we should live? I don't think so.

I personally do not have any hatred towards ordinary citizens of the US, Britain, Germany, etc. There are lots of good and smart people who understand us and respect us. But I have lots of questions for your leaders and elites. I have a feeling that you are run by total psychopaths who only think about their money and power. They don't think about you, ordinary people; I have a feeling that they actually hate you, and they won't spare you if a full-blown war starts.

We asked the US to stay out of our political life, respect our interests, let us go our way, and develop our economy a lot of times. You all know how you behaved and what you answered us. You continue to behave like it's still 1991. It's not. You've lost your power because of the greed of your elites. took over. You had a chance to be the best country in and you failed that exam.

All enemies of Russia will be eliminated wherever they are.

And as for you, @ZFire, shut the f**k up and go get a life, my pathetic and disgusting "friend."

 

Lol. I was wondering when you were going to show your face again after your embarrassing display here last time. Still wishing death to all gays and hoping they burn in hell, are we? I remember you calling them “faggots” actually.

Anyways, Russia’s waging war upon Ukraine and in the process maiming, murdering, raping, and stealing from others, so excuse me if you don’t like what I have to say about Russia. The entire Russian governmental system is corrupt and rotten to the core. Their democracy is a facade, and they don’t even pretend to hide it anymore. The legitimacy of the Russian mafia state hinges on Putin staying in power. He is like a tumor in the center of it...

Let’s be real here: Russia is imperialistic by nature and always has been. They are currently seeking territorial gains, attacking a sovereign neighboring country unjustly for the purpose of expansion. Your dictator leader has grand delusions of restoring the old Russian empire back together. He thinks he’s Peter The Great or wants to be like him at least, so he can be put into the history books as an all-time great Russian tzar. So screw em. You’re telling me to respect Russia’s interest? Which is to permit land grabs by oppressive authoritative regimes? Fuck outta here. But hey, at least you’re honest about it, unlike some other people here.

The greatness of Russian history and culture is unmatchable? Lol. Ahh, yes of course, Because nothing screams greatness like Ivan the Terrible and Stalin, right? I mean, who wouldn’t want their country enriched by the mass slaughter of their own people? Truly unmatched greatness...

I mean, sure, I like to read some Dostoevsky from time to time, but ultimately, Russia’s culture is one of hubris, aggression, lies, paranoia, xenophobia, and homophobia (hi @Vassili), racism, and misplaced pride at being better than everyone else. It’s a decadent culture; we all know this. It doesn’t mean every Russian uniformly buys into it. And there’s a heavy price to be paid for being outspoken about not buying into it, which is why you don’t see many Russians going against the flow. The serf mentality is still going strong in Russia as a result.

I won’t bother with the remainder of your posts. Russians and their inferiority complex towards the US never ceases to amuse me. Do you still think Russia has the capability to invade the US, lol? Truth and reality don’t mix well with Russia.

You’d make a great spokesperson for mutha Rusha.

 

It’s interesting watching this argument; it’s certainly a shame it’s become personal, but evidently, there must be some history there that I’m not aware of.

I would consider myself neutral despite the U.K. having a very strong relationship with the U.S., I do love visiting the States myself and have always had a great time there, I have yet to visit Russia, but it has always been on the to-do list due to the history. The irony to me and many other neutrals is seeing Russians and Americans accuse each other of the exact same thing. From the outside looking in, you’re both coerced by dodgy political propaganda and criminal foreign activity. Both countries have had irrefutable blood on their hands throughout the years.

I have no love for Russia, and I also have no love for the United States, trying to play the leader of the free world and acting like the sole governing body on what’s ethical. We could dive into the Middle East, Israel, Libya, etc., but that’s a completely different story.

Putin is an egotistical narcissist, and the political system there is evidently corrupt. But on the plus side, at least you know who’s running the country. The same can’t be said for the United States. You’ll never be able to convince me that a bumbling, stumbling old man is in charge.

In terms of power, Russia isn’t as strong as America, and it’s not even close. But Russian allegiance with China and India alone is enough to surpass NATO. Russia has also been very smart within Africa and the Middle East. Unfortunately, the rest of the world is becoming very fed up with Western politics and its treatment of others. We certainly appear to be losing a lot of geopolitical ground.

As for Ukraine, that’s an absolute bloodbath. If Putin’s sole reason for the invasion was to stop NATO missiles at their front door, then in my opinion, that’s justifiable. I don’t think America could argue with that one, given how the Cuban missile crisis played out. But that’s clearly not Putin’s sole intention of invasion.

I will finish with this: I have seen a lot of footage from this conflict in Ukraine, and there have been an awful amount of war crimes from both sides. However, I have never seen Ukrainian war crimes posted in our mainstream media. What I do see, however, is Ukrainian troops and tanks with random pixelated patches on the uniforms and machinery. To then find the same unedited footage online and see the BBC censoring all of the Ukrainian Neo-Nazi symbols.

We are all insignificant. Our respective governments spin whatever yarn they want us to believe, and our media is a big part of this. We are not important enough to ever truly know what’s going on. It’s a waste of energy and time to get personal with one another.

 

I showed your post to my friends. They laughed for a long time at your stupidity. You made our evening. Take care. Have a great day.

 

That's a whole lot of accusations based solely on hearsay and interviews of disgruntled Ukrainian citizens. How come there isn't a single video of this "murder and rape," despite the fact that everyone and their mother has a smartphone? Maybe Ukraine shouldn't have declined the Minsk agreements and denied any sorts of peace negotiations?

P. S. Before you say, "Russia should just leave," - yeah, they should, but they won't, and evidence shows that Ukraine is going to lose the territory anyway.

 

It wouldn’t even be justifiable in the slightest. Only the misinformed keep repeating that NATO excuse. His intentions for invasion are rather putrid and completely unjust.

Stopping NATO expansion was never his reason for the invasion at all:

1. There is no proof or evidence whatsoever that NATO wanted to install missiles and bases in Ukraine. Ukraine is/was not a NATO member, and from what we’ve seen from the Sweden and Finland cases, acceptance into NATO was definitely not a foregone conclusion.

2. Let’s entertain the proposition that Putin’s motivation for the invasion was to prevent NATO missiles at their front door. Okay, consider this: Finland has a border with Russia, and is even closer to some big Russian population centers than Ukraine. And yet, when Finland joined NATO in April 2023, Putin just shrugged it aside. Not only that, he’s reduced the number of border guards from the Finland-Russo border... something you’d never do if you thought that there was a risk of war. So, how do you reconcile this? I thought he was trying to prevent NATO expansion from happening near Russia’s border? I hope you can see where I’m going with this.

3. The most damning event of all, Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, setting up a civil war in the East and annexing Crimea. There was absolutely no possibility of NATO members voting in Ukraine. Article 5 means that members will not take in another country in the midst of war. Putin knows this. Everyone with a brain knows this. It’s a sign of mass delusion and lack of common sense that the ‘NATO’ excuse is still a popular nonsense talking point.

4. NATO is a defensive alliance, and every nation has the right to determine whether they wish to join, in accordance with NATO's guidelines obviously. Nations crying about it is irrelevant.

I read the other parts of your posts; you’re trying to present a ‘balanced’ perspective, taking the both-sides route. I’m not going to comment much on it. I obviously disagree with most of what you say, and I’ve explained my position numerous times on why, both here and in the US presidential threads, and I’m pretty tired of having to keep doing it.

I think you’re cool outside this thread, so I’ll keep it civil with you.

All I will say is that I think you’re 100% wrong and out of line for putting the war crimes committed by Ukrainian and Russian forces on equal footing.

And also, regarding the US as leader of the free world, for all its many faults, shortcomings, and questionable interventions, which I agree have resulted in countless deaths and problems in certain parts of the world, they are still the one thing that has kept this world as stable as it is for the past 70 years than it would otherwise be.

You can bet that many major countries like Russia and especially China eagerly hope that the US lags behind in military research, leaves its military bases in foreign countries, or cuts its military power by a decent amount... so that it can move more freely on the global stage. And let me tell you, if that happens, it’s not going to be good for global stability.

I’m trying very hard to care, homophobe. You got nothing, as expected.

It’s simple. If you give an inch to a dictator like Putin, they take a mile. Giving them ground just encourages them and they see it as weakness and then they try to take more later.

Why does NATO exist? Because Russia is an aggressor and a dangerous basket case of serfs. That’s why nations like Finland and Sweden have joined NATO.

 

I respect that you disagree with my views, as I do with yours. There's a reason politics and religion aren't often topics of discussion in pubs.

I like you too. I appreciate your insight on all the other threads. Therefore, I'll refrain from going back and forth with you on this topic. We are unlikely to change each other's perspective.

 

Isn't "murder and rape" carried out privately? I doubt if anyone would allow themselves to be filmed committing such atrocities.

There was this murder by two Russian soldiers at the start of the invasion.

@Vassili, your perspective on being from Russia is of interest. May I ask if you, your Russian friends, feel there has been any gain (material or otherwise) from the "Special Military Operation" for Russian citizens? Can you also perhaps shed some light on what Russian citizens feel they are going to gain long-term from this war? For example, is economic prosperity, improved quality of life, the standard of living, improved tourism, respect from the rest of the world, or having a greater influence on the world's stage expected?

 

You can find answers to all your questions on the Internet. I won't do it for you. Read Arabic, Chinese, Indian, and Russian analytics. Do not read US and European liberal media. Their picture is what your government wants you to see. If everything is Russian propaganda to you, don't even bother to answer me.

Who are you to expect anything at all? Go do your homework and go to bed, scarecrow.

 

My ex-wife lives in Odessa, Ukraine. What are the odds of Russia capturing Odessa? And if Russia launches a ground assault on the city, will it turn into another Bahmut?

 

The issue is that there is no evidence of these atrocities being committed beyond hearsay. It's shoddy & unreliable as hell, however being accepted as absolute truth.

 

You guys are still debating this war crime topic? It's been years now, sheesh lol.

 

Your first mistake was thinking you could get straight answers from a delusional, bigoted Russian.

The thing one needs to know about Russian propaganda and their troll farms is that they make the most outlandish claims. They don't provide any concrete sources and pretend it's always someone else's fault for Russian aggression. These constant false flag claims are getting quite boring and very predictable.

Truth and reality are solely obstacles to Russian propaganda and Russia’s way of doing things. We can see it happening right now, with Russia desperately trying to blame those Islamic terrorist attacks on Ukraine, the UK, and the US. They are now fabricating evidence. Going so far as to use AI deep fakes.

Yes, I remember schooling him on those topics, and he keeps regurgitating the same shit I’ve already debunked like it’s going to work. A broken record at this point.

The dude is a one-trick and simply a run-of-the-mill clown who recycles Russian troll farm deflection tactics, excuses, lies, whataboutism, and propaganda. Case in point: in response to my posts about Moscow terrorist attacks by ISLAMIC militants, this brainless droid comes back with, "That's a whole lot of accusations based solely on hearsay and interviews of disgruntled Ukrainian citizens." Bozo is just spouting random nonsense, the kind of shit you would expect from troll farms.

He’s better off sticking to tinnitus research threads instead of embarrassing himself here. At least in those threads, the clown comes across as knowledgeable. Over here, however:



By the way, weren’t you here at the beginning of this thread, around the time when this @Vassili dude was cucking Putin and spewing his homophobic rant, wishing death to all homosexuals in the name of his insane Christian orthodoxy belief? I know a few others also saw it before the mods came in to clean up the house. I remember @MindOverMatter being in complete disbelief after his true colors were revealed.

 

Too much arguing back and forth in this thread. I don’t like @ZFire’s memes too much. I remember him using them in replies to me. I just want the war to end so we don’t have to spend more borrowed US taxpayers’ money. Let the European NATO countries pick up the slack if they want the war to continue.

 

I have more memes. Ones that showcase Russia’s stupidity.

 

Mass explosions hit three Russian cities with airfields: Morozovsk, Yeysk, and Engels.

What I find interesting about this new long-range drone campaign from Ukraine is that it attacks several different targets all around Russian territory. It is not massing all the drones towards Engels, which has the most high-value targets. It also attacks manufacturing plants, oil infrastructure (particularly crucial parts of refineries), etc.

In my estimates, this seems like both shaping operations and a strategy to create huge dilemmas for Russia regarding where to put its air defense systems and force it to stretch them thin. This can potentially create some weaknesses and even full holes in the defense grid.

It will be extremely difficult for Russia to decide how to defend against this. Hopefully, Ukrainian intelligence services can identify where the kink in the armor is. Then, we can expect to see a devastating attack against it.

This will give the F16s more space to maneuver when they arrive in summer. This is not a game changer, but these drone waves very well might be, at least until Russia learns how to defend against them efficiently.

Imagine what kind of position Ukraine could've been in if not Congress has held back Ukraine aid for half a year. Mike Johnson is single-handedly destroying long-term American international credibility with his stalling tactics for putting Ukraine aid up for a vote in US Congress.

 

More money to Ukraine = more dead bodies and more severely injured bodies on both sides. There should be peace negotiations immediately. Ukraine is already running short on troops. Ukraine can only achieve a stalemate at best for a period of time.

Speaker Mike Johnson and the majority of Americans wanted our own border secured before even considering sending aid to Ukraine, but Biden and the Democrats refuse to do so. The House passed the comprehensive H.R. 2 Border Bill last May, but Chuck Schumer refused even to consider it in the Senate.

We might as well face the fact that both Biden & Harris are a dunce. + Chuck Schumer is also a dunce.

 

This is how Ukrainians handle war: they go after strategic targets like oil refineries, airfields, and manufacturing plants, to fuck up Russki logistics, not civilians. Russia, on the other hand, deliberately targets civilians and their buildings. And if Russian orcs aren’t targeting areas deliberately of no strategic value, they’ll just fire imprecise artillery with little to no accuracy anyway, with no regard for collateral damage to civilian populations. A-holes.

Anyway, I’m glad to see Ukraine initiating these drone campaigns in Russia. I’m not sure why the US and other allies are advising Ukraine to hold back from these attacks. Seriously, the fear of escalation with a paper tiger like Putin is so baffling at this point. His empty threats mean nothing.

I hate this religious lunatic and Russian asset with a passion.

Fixed. This is what you’re really saying, @just1morething.

I’m not sure why you’re acting like we can’t do both at the same time, lol. Oh, wait a minute. Wasn’t there a bipartisan bill that was going to do just that?

 

The nuclear power plant in Zaporizhzhia, in southern Ukraine, under control by Russia since February 2022, is the largest nuclear power plant in Europe and is being attacked frequently. The United Nations has "urged restraint," according to the BBC. Russia has said that Ukraine is behind the attacks, while Ukraine has denied responsibility.

The head of the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Rafael Grassi, said that the most recent strike early Monday, April 8, 2024, was "reckless" and "a major escalation of the nuclear safety and security dangers" facing the plant.

This is what we are funding with our tax dollars.

 

So you’ll be happy when we have a nuclear war. That's really smart there, buddy.

 

Please, I’ve lost count of how many times Russia (or, rather, Medvedev) has threatened nuclear war. The idea that Putin was/is ever going to use nuclear weapons has been ridiculous from the get-go. He certainly didn’t stash away his untold billions of dollars in fortune just to waste it all for nuclear warfare.

Like I said, Putin's a paper tiger. He has made threats about using nuclear weapons repeatedly at the start of this war, and yet, for every massive defeat he's suffered since, he hasn't used them. The Ukrainians have launched assaults in Crimea, blowing the shit out of their airbases over there, their landing ships + submarines, their naval Black Sea fleet headquarters in Sevastopol (a ‘holy’ place for the Russkis), and he still didn't do crap. These military-targeted assaults on Russian soil are no different. And he won't use nukes. Because if he does, the NATO gloves come off.

He is too chicken-shit for nuclear war. The little man fears for his own life. Nukes means the end of his life and his family.

I swear, some of you guys here seem completely out of touch with the developments and sequence of events in this war. Instead of staying informed, you guys just parrot the same fear-mongering rhetoric from your favorite west-hating pundits and pro-Russia propaganda outlets.

Grow a pair, please. Better yet, the US should grow a pair already and let the Ukrainians do what is necessary to make the Russian orcs leave their territory and piss off back to Mutha Rusha.