What Am I Doing with My Life? My Life Is Consumed by Tinnitus

[another sean]

Pianos aren't inherently dangerous.

@Ed209 What are you talking about? Pianos are murdering machines.

Proof...



(I just realized your username is a Robo Cop reference. I wondered why it sounded so familiar)

 

[Lane]

The piano was my natural anti depressant. Ironically it's what ruined me, so I'm selling it which now leaves a gaping void in my interests.

Hi @Allan1967 -- I'm sorry to hear you're selling your piano, and how that will leave such a void for you. When I first got tinnitus a year ago, it sent me into the deepest despair, and it was painfully slow pulling myself out of that despair in the following months (still not done). During this time, I told myself to give it two years before I "concluded" one way or another how this was going to play out.

If I may, I would suggest you consider doing the same with selling your piano. It may make perfect sense for you "now", but will that be the case two years from now? Perhaps keeping it around will give you hope that someday you can play it again, albeit at a different volume than you have in the past. -- I almost "desperately" wanted to take piano lessons when I was barely 7 or 8 years old, but my parents wouldn't swing for it. I've always regretted that, and have an admiration for those who made the effort to learn how to play. I guess my note is to encourage you to not give up just yet. -- Take care...

 

[Jazzer]

There is no question that electric pianos (keyboards) can be loud enough to do damage.
The effing noise is amplified, and easily capable of increasing Tinnitus.
This often happens if the bandleader happens to be the keyboard player, with a decent sized ego, who wants to make sure that no member of the audience misses one single note that falls from his 'golden' fingers.
I've been there.
I am that soldier.

 

[Allan1967]

Habituation comes when you stop caring about your T. When you stop caring then there is no emotional valence to the signal and thus your amygdala stops attaching emotional "weighting" to it.

The signal which is being received by the basolateral nucleus is shunted through to the central nucleus (both parts of the amygdala) via guardians at the gate called the intercallated neurons (which act like a "reverse bouncer" only letting in the most emotional clients on order of the "Management" (Your pre-frontal cortex or "consciousness") Instead it's filtered out at the thalamus ( the routing station of the brain ) as something unimportant.

For instance: direct your sensation to your hand now and consciously feel the sensation from it....the feeling has always there but you never noticed it, the amygdala has no concerns with what is going on as there's no reason for it to do so.

[An interesting aside to this is schizophrenia, some researchers suspect that a faulty gating system is just letting everything through to the PFC with very little filtering so even random meaningless events acquire great significance]

If your amygdala has no concerns with your T then you don't hear it either unless you direct your attention to it. Getting your amygdala to a situation of not caring is the trick.

To do so you need to change "Management policy". There are a number of steps to take.

1/ Meditate, this reduces your overall stress levels and and lets the intercallated neurons have some time off so the security at the door is lax and reluctant to escort the signal to the central nucleus as there is nothing much going on ( the reverse is when you are stressed and it's heightened awareness time and everything get through)

2/ Affirmations. Look at yourself in the mirror in the eyes and repeat an affirmation. The shorter the better but a good one is "Executive override: you have no power over me" and say it with a smirk on your face. People who are worried about T don't smirk about it. You will know you are doing this right when you feel the hairs on your arms stick up.

3/ Fake your belief system: When people ask how your T is then say "Really good it's very quiet, can hardly hear it at all". After a while your limbic system starts to believe the statement and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy as the environment is now backing you up ( I appreciate this is hard, we want the world to feel for us and get that dopamine to make us feel a bit better).

These three steps hit the amygdala at every one of it's entrance gates telling it everything is fine so stop messing about. Eventually the limbic system has to square the circle to achieve cognitive homeostasis, it does so by attenuating your T and putting it on the back burner just like it would if there was a big emotional event in the life.

Even the worst T sufferer in the world doesn't hear it in the middle of a severe skid on ice when they're driving their car.

Excellent, thank you. Thank you all.

 

[Allan1967]

Hi @Allan1967 ,
Have you ever wondered whether it's the self-medicating or Propanol that is making your tinnitus worse?
Mirtazapine (Remeron) caused my tinnitus many years ago. I had no idea what was happening until I found out that antidepressants and sleep medication can cause and worsen tinnitus.
I'm convinced it was the medication because my tinnitus stopped worsening as soon as I stopped taking it.
My tinnitus has improved since... but it took at least a year after stopping all meds before I started noticing small improvements.
Maria

I had considered some meds aren't helping. Stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea sometimes.

 

[Allan1967]

The discourse has once again developed in the direction that additional noise potentially causes additional damage to the "auditory system"

But, - Allan1967 reports an ear infection as the triggering cause for his tinnitus.
Why should normal noise be harmful if noise was not the cause of tinnitus at all?

That's what I wonder?

 

[Allan1967]

Indeed, plus if its a natural antidepressant for you????

Do you have hearing loss and have you had a hearing test recently? It could be pure coincidence that the spike occurred when you were playing the piano.

I have an ENT appointment in two weeks. I have some hearing loss in my right ear that happened 10 years before my tinnitus started.

I was lucky to be honest. I was a stupid 17 year old joinery apprentice and one day I hit a nail gun cap with a hammer in an enclosed room. Equivalent to a gunshot and my right ear made a whoo like noise and I'm pretty sure my hearing was damaged at that point, but no tinnitus. My left ear was unaffected.

At the minute it's my left ear that is the problem with these beeps.

 

[Allan1967]

Normal practise on a piano is between 60-70dB. Most pianos will peak at around 80dB if you play them loud, but no songs are played entirely fortissimo. I wouldn't say pianos are dangerously loud and they're not something that I'd be particularly concerned about.

At a push my piano make can top 85 dB according to Yamaha.

 

[Jazzer]

Hi @Allan1967 -- I'm sorry to hear you're selling your piano, and how that will leave such a void for you. When I first got tinnitus a year ago, it sent me into the deepest despair, and it was painfully slow pulling myself out of that despair in the following months (still not done). During this time, I told myself to give it two years before I "concluded" one way or another how this was going to play out.

If I may, I would suggest you consider doing the same with selling your piano. It may make perfect sense for you "now", but will that be the case two years from now? Perhaps keeping it around will give you hope that someday you can play it again, albeit at a different volume than you have in the past. -- I almost "desperately" wanted to take piano lessons when I was barely 7 or 8 years old, but my parents wouldn't swing for it. I've always regretted that, and have an admiration for those who made the effort to learn how to play. I guess my note is to encourage you to not give up just yet. -- Take care...

Great advice.
Just watch your volume,
and use some softening ear plugs.

 

[Ed209]

There is no question that electric pianos (keyboards) can be loud enough to do damage.
The effing noise is amplified, and easily capable of increasing Tinnitus.
This often happens if the bandleader happens to be the keyboard player, with a decent sized ego, who wants to make sure that no member of the audience misses one single note that falls from his 'golden' fingers.
I've been there.
I am that soldier.

Electric pianos and keyboards are a total non-issue as their volume can be controlled. Allan is talking about practising piano on his own; there are no bands involved. If we go down this route then the TV, conversation, and most other household items are all dangerous as well and should be avoided. In fact, why bother doing anything because a lot of activities are between 60-70dB?

This is tinnitus paranoia at its finest. Bill has got people scared to even leave the house and their lives are in complete chaos. I get many PMs from people who are now so paranoid, and afraid, that they wear earplugs and earmuffs (at the same time) in the house! it's so tragic and heartbreaking.

In my opinion, you will hear your tinnitus more and you suffer from more tinnitus spikes if you behave in this way. It's the best way to allow tinnitus to control your life and keep it front and centre in your active awareness.

I'll be honest and say a lot of this stuff is toxic advice and people shouldn't sit reading this crap regularly. It really pisses me off because I know how detrimental this stuff is.

If I was Allan, I'd continue playing the piano because it has therapeutic benefits, as long as he can detach his emotion from it being dangerous.

 

[Ed209]

At a push my piano make can top 85 dB according to Yamaha.

Electric piano?

That's going to be going fortissimo at full volume. That's not normal playing. I can assure you that normal playing is not worth worrying about, and I doubt you crank it all the way up and go full-on fortissimo for hours at a time.

If you wanted the added safety blanket just wear some ear plugs (personally I wouldn't bother because it's not dangerous). I play acoustic guitar everyday for hours as part of my job and I don't use earplugs. It's just not loud enough. I've also jammed with many of my students on their acoustic and electric pianos.

I personally have an electric Yamaha:

 

[Jazzer]

If I was Allan, I'd continue playing the piano because it has therapeutic benefits, as long as he can detach his emotion from it being dangerous.

I agree completely, and have said so above.

My other point was that keyboards can be very dangerous if the player is an 'Arse'ole!'

 

[Ed209]

I agree completely, and have said so above.

My other point was that keyboards can be very dangerous if the player is an 'Arse'ole!'

The language is getting worse on here. I blame you, Dave

 

[Jazzer]

The language is getting worse on here. I blame you, Dave

Yea but......you used the "P" word..!
I very nearly took a step back.......x

 

[Allan1967]

Electric piano?

That's going to be going fortissimo at full volume. That's not normal playing. I can assure you that normal playing is not worth worrying about, and I doubt you crank it all the way up and go full-on fortissimo for hours at a time.

If you wanted the added safety blanket just wear some ear plugs (personally I wouldn't bother because it's not dangerous). I play acoustic guitar everyday for hours as part of my job and I don't use earplugs. It's just not loud enough. I've also jammed with many of my students on their acoustic and electric pianos.

I personally have an electric Yamaha:

My piano is an acoustic piano. I might invest in a cheap digital in the future but right now an expensive hybrid that I can only use on digital is pretty worthless.

 

[Ed209]

My piano is an acoustic piano. I might invest in a cheap digital in the future but right now an expensive hybrid that I can only use on digital is pretty worthless.

An acoustic piano is very unlikely to damage your ears in any meaningful way. If you're sure it says 85dB, then that would be absolute peak output. In other words, you would have to go crazy just to -potentially- make it blip there occasionally (bare in mind that occasional sounds at 85dB are not going to be instantly damaging). The acoustics of your room will also play a very big part in how loud it is. If you feel like it's hurting your ears then there's no harm in using plugs while you practise.

Like I said earlier, normal playing is around 60-70dB.

 

[Ed209]

Just out of interest, what type/s of music do play? And how long you been playing for?

 

[Allan1967]

Just out of interest, what type/s of music do play? And how long you been playing for?

I was interested in jazz and boogie woogie. Yes you'd have to really go at it to reach 85 dB for over an hour.

But, it is what it is. Strangely I don't think my hearing is affected.

 

[Ed209]

I was interested in jazz and boogie woogie. Yes you'd have to really go at it to reach 85 dB for over an hour.

But, it is what it is. Strangely I don't think my hearing is affected.

Cool. If I were you I'd keep at.

Didn't you say you had an ear infection before your T got worse, or have I got that wrong?

 

[TuxedoCat]

You are talking about healthy people. There had never been any studies about what kinds of noises can hurt T sufferers. A large number of older posts seem to imply that 80 dB might not always be safe.

80 dB? The chart with my dB meter says that the level of a telephone dial tone. Just curious- how do these older posts arrive at the number?

The audiologist that helped me said 90dB was the level of concern for sustained exposure. I specifically remember because I was paranoid at that stage. I downloaded a dB meter onto my iPhone and took it to church with me. The organ music reached 100-110 dB at points throughout a hymn and I asked the audiologist about it. She told me " don't worry about it, its not sustained and it's something you enjoy.

My piano is an acoustic piano. I might invest in a cheap digital in the future but right now an expensive hybrid that I can only use on digital is pretty worthless.

Final decision is yours, of course. But as Lane said - you don't know what the future holds, so you might defer the decision (or kick the can down the road as we say).

I have an ENT appointment in two weeks. I have some hearing loss in my right ear that happened 10 years before my tinnitus started.

Hopefully, they will also send you onto audiology where you can get a baseline audiogram. Be sure you get a copy. At least find out whats going on with your hearing and talk to the ENT and audiologist about the piano playing.

At the minute it's my left ear that is the problem with these beeps.

Beeps? There is a type of tinnitus called typewriter tinnitus. Be sure to describe the tinnitus sound to the ENT. God, I just hope you get an ENT and audiologist who knows about tinnitus. Can the ENT refer you for talk therapy? Maybe some CBTi for helping you re-establish your sleep.

TC

 

[Chalx]

When you're up at 2am @Chalx what do you do?

Honestly, I try to breathe. I know that what's going on is going on, and I have to try and accept it versus fight it - because then the body goes into fight/flight, and since it can't flee it tries to fight and that's a failing process. Usually when I lay there I try to relax the muscles in my head, my neck, my shoulders, and find that I'm holding tension in muscles that I didn't know existed. It's interesting - you'll get a muscle to relax only to have your body instantly fight it, and if things DO sound better for a minute I get anxious because I'm just waiting for the sound to come back and blast me in the face...false hope is BS. Regardless, more often than not it helps to get me back to sleep for a bit.

The only way I can sleep is with medication at this point. I take hydroxyzine throughout the day as needed to help reduce the panic feeling, and take Zolpidem ER 12.5mg at night to hopefully pull me through. Yes, I miss the days when sleep could just happen, but I'm willing to do anything for it and don't care what it takes. If I don't sleep my day is shot to sh*t.

At one point I was also taking 1mg of Clonazepam, and boy diddy that helped with sleep. Sometimes I would go from 10pm to 8am...stretch a few of those together and it helps.

Lastly, I may put something on TV that is familiar and doesn't take any mental investment...for me these days it's basketball (college or NBA). It's basically the same thing over and over so I can just stare at it and phase out. Another sean mentioned video games, which may be helpful during the day but not to go back to sleep. I may actually try getting a system just for the distraction.

Stay strong - I had a completely meltdown in front of my wife last night wishing I was dead, but then that moment passed and I'm now at work getting stuff done. We're all with you.

 

[Bill Bauer]

80 dB? The chart with my dB meter says that the level of a telephone dial tone. Just curious- how do these older posts arrive at the number?

It is me reading their posts, and arriving at the number:

the noise has actually got worse - a lot worse just lately as I've been exposed to a noisy office environment. Normal for everyone else but too noisy for my ears. I now have a noise like a jet engine, a rushing wind with a high-pitched whine in it.

While I agree some people here go overboard with hearing protection, this increase in noise sensitivity after wearing hearing protection is only a temporary one. It is not the same thing as the brain turning up the auditory gain when there is a permanent loss in hearing.
With regards to noise exposure that isn't dangerous to most people, I developed a new tone in my right ear after a noise exposure at work back in October. I spent about half an hour in an area that I would estimate was at most 90db, but it was probably less than that. I had deeply inserted large foam earplugs at the time, but apparently that was not enough protection. That tone has not gone away, and it's not some psychosomatic spike. Spikes in volume are somewhat relative in my opinion, they can be attributed to stress, lack of sleep, noise exposure, diet, etc., but completely new tones that do not go away are something different.
What is safe for you may not be safe for me. And the fact is there has been no good study done assessing the vulnerability of already damaged auditory systems. The gold standard for dangerous noise levels is based on old data from OSHA where they looked for permanent threshold shifts of 10db or more at 2000, 3000, or 4000 Hz. As we know now, you can have fairly significant auditory damage without having a permanent threshold shift in those three ranges. There is also a lot of industry push-back when OSHA tries to make safety guidelines more strict (I haven't seen this with noise levels, but I have seen it with chemical safety guidelines). Moreover, it's very likely that some people are more genetically predisposed to hearing damage than others.
What I'm getting at here is I agree with you that some people really do go overboard with hearing protection, and obsessing about noise is not healthy, but it irritates me when people adopt this attitude of "well it works for me therefore it must work for you" or "it's safe for me therefore it's safe for you". No one can say that.

Yeah. I am going through the same thing. Got my T to improve and go back to mild and went to a restaurant I have eaten safely at twice post T and have had the loudest spike that has, after a week, not improved at all. And my H got worse too.

 

[Allan1967]

Cool. If I were you I'd keep at.

Didn't you say you had an ear infection before your T got worse, or have I got that wrong?

No.

 

[Ed209]

No.

Did anything else of note happen before it got worse?

 

[Allan1967]

Did anything else of note happen before it got worse?

I started a course of lymecycline shortly before, but I had that years before with no side effects.

 

[Ed209]

I started a course of lymecycline shortly before, but I had that years before with no side effects.

Can Tetralysal cause Tinnitus?
I started taking Tetralysal pills once a day a month ago and have recently developed tinnitus symptoms. I'm not sure if these will go away eventually but I am seeing my doctor soon. Wikipedia says that Tetracycline antibiotics can cause tinnitus but on the leaflet supplied with the medication it did not list tinnitus as a possible side effect.

Can Tetralysal cause tinnitus?
Yes it can. The side effect is not included on the patient leaflet but is listed as a possible side effect in the PDR (Physician's Desk Reference).

http://tinnitussymptoms.blogspot.com/2017/05/can-tetralysal-cause-tinnitus.html?m=1

I haven't verified this myself but this is what I found after a quick search.

 

[Ed209]

Also found this:

Over the past few years I began to develop patches of hair loss and scalp tenderness, doctor used a woods lamp to diagnosed tinea capitis; fungal infection of the scalp). I was put on a strong antifungal medication called terbinafine for a period of 6 months and the patches regrew.


-I have been taking Lymecycline for the treatment of acne since the age of 18, I am now 25.

-On the last week of December 2016, the patches returned, I panicked, rushed to the doctors and asked to go back on the antifungal.

One week into the course, I was lying in bed at night and turn to my left side when my right ear just began to ring. The best way to describe the ringing sound is the sound you get if you get slapped around the ear. The ringing continued, and has now turned into a high pitched sound almost like when a tv is turned on but the volume is off. (I stopped taking terbinafine as soon as the symptoms began however the drug has a long half life of 400hrs).


-The ringing is unilateral in my right ear, on waking I do feel a slight full feeling in my ear. When I hum in the morning the right ear feels blocked. I did have a runny nose and abit of a cold when the ringing began so it may be due a cold?

-The ringing sometimes is extremely loud for a few seconds then goes back to the normal tone.


-I went to the doctor who said that it should settle in 6-8weeks, I have have an appointment with the ENT consultant on Wednesday (just over a month of symptoms).

https://community.actiononhearinglo...dication-loud-noise-stress-induced-reversible

None of this means that the lymecycline is the cause, but it demonstrates the minefield of possibilities. I think your belief that the piano caused it is misguided, but I may be wrong.

 

[Allan1967]

Also found this:

Over the past few years I began to develop patches of hair loss and scalp tenderness, doctor used a woods lamp to diagnosed tinea capitis; fungal infection of the scalp). I was put on a strong antifungal medication called terbinafine for a period of 6 months and the patches regrew.


-I have been taking Lymecycline for the treatment of acne since the age of 18, I am now 25.

-On the last week of December 2016, the patches returned, I panicked, rushed to the doctors and asked to go back on the antifungal.

One week into the course, I was lying in bed at night and turn to my left side when my right ear just began to ring. The best way to describe the ringing sound is the sound you get if you get slapped around the ear. The ringing continued, and has now turned into a high pitched sound almost like when a tv is turned on but the volume is off. (I stopped taking terbinafine as soon as the symptoms began however the drug has a long half life of 400hrs).


-The ringing is unilateral in my right ear, on waking I do feel a slight full feeling in my ear. When I hum in the morning the right ear feels blocked. I did have a runny nose and abit of a cold when the ringing began so it may be due a cold?

-The ringing sometimes is extremely loud for a few seconds then goes back to the normal tone.


-I went to the doctor who said that it should settle in 6-8weeks, I have have an appointment with the ENT consultant on Wednesday (just over a month of symptoms).

https://community.actiononhearinglo...dication-loud-noise-stress-induced-reversible

None of this means that the lymecycline is the cause, but it demonstrates the minefield of possibilities. I think your belief that the piano caused it is misguided, but I may be wrong.

I've read about those tablets before. Appreciated Ed.

 

[TuxedoCat]

But, it is what it is. Strangely I don't think my hearing is affected.

@Allan1967

It's not uncommon to loose hearing in the higher frequencies and be unaware. I was totally unaware until I developed tinnitus and had a hearing test. I think the brain fills in the gaps based on context so word recognition is maintained.

For example, If a family went to see a play and the usher said, "Young children may sit in the front rows." You many not have heard the s in sit, but you still understood what was being said because of the context.

Speech includes a mix of low and high frequency sounds:

• Vowel sounds like a short "o" as in the word "hot," have low frequencies (250 to 1,000 Hz) and are usually easier to hear.
• Consonants like "s," "h," and "f," have higher frequencies (1,500 to 6,000 Hz) and are harder to hear.

Also, don't blame yourself for this. Other's make stupid mistakes and don't develop hearing loss and tinnitus. None of us asked for this.

TC

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Not at the minute. The piano was my natural anti depressant. Ironically it's what ruined me, so I'm selling it which now leaves a gaping void in my interests.

When you sell it, buy a keyboard that you can play at lower volumes. In the worst part of my recovery I was afraid to play my guitars, which similarly was my release in life.