Why Do Some People Hate Bill Bauer?

[GregCA]

My plan is to gradually reintroduce myself to moderate sounds. Having said this, I won't be around any loud/live music ever again.

Your use of the "/" (slash) symbol is a bit confusing: you can have loud music that isn't live, and live music that isn't loud.
Avoiding loud music (or loud sound/noise in general) is a health rule that applies to everyone, not just T/H sufferers.

 

[TuneOut]

Leading a life of social isolation deprived from sound and in perpetual anxiety is not healthy, damaging your ears by recklessly exposing yourself to loud sounds is not either. The key is moderation.

The question is what constitutes moderation. It is different for each, correct? The person must find out for themselves what levels of noise their ears are able to tolerate. "Listening" to the potential early indications of damage.

I feel that I can see both sides of this issue a bit better because my tinnitus was stable for many years and now it is not. Despite the mild tinnitus, I pretty much lived a normal life. I avoided really loud places including theatres, but that was it. I almost never thought of it and I didn't own any earplugs or worry about spikes.

Then a serious of further sound exposures changed things for the worse. Much worse. Now, I have seriously reactive tinnitus that has been getting progressively worse for two years. The only thing that helps is to avoid even moderate sound levels. And limit the time my ears are exposed. I also believe that stress can permanently damage the ears. My "moderation" has changed. Maybe it will improve, I don't know. Just a cautionary tale. I do agree that living a life of isolation and anxiety is no life at all. I don't think Bill is advocating such a thing.

 

[Bill Bauer]

But when you go look into each thread in detail you realize the story is not necessarily about damage due to noise.

Please do us a favour and illustrate the charge above with an example. Please provide 3-5 stories that I linked to where it was not necessarily about damage due to noise.

If one isn't careful, there is a danger of creating fear and anxiety in the reader

It is ok to fear scary things that can give you a life-changing trauma.

I doubt whether reading Bill's posts would have made much difference to you years ago. You would still have played in a jazz band blowing your trombone loudly and in total bliss.

He would have had a Choice. As it happened, he (like most of us) never even had a choice/chance...

the advice they get in here by self-proclaimed experts

If you are talking about me, then the above is wrong. I never said that I was an expert. For close to 25 years now, I have been reading texts and summarizing what could be learned from those texts in point form. I had been doing it as a student, I have been doing it as a professional lecturer. After having been reading this forum for over a year, I have been sharing with the others what I learned.

you can have loud music that isn't live, and live music that isn't loud

Based on the experiences that I read about on this forum, I don't trust live music not to get loud (and for me to notice that it is louder than when I arrived and decided that its volume is fine).

 

[Michael Leigh]

It is ok to fear scary things that can give you a life-changing trauma.

For you this may be the case Bill but we are all different. I occasionally counsel people with tinnitus. A few people in this forum have telephoned me. From the states, Europe and UK. They have told me reading some of the posts in this forum scares the life out of them, particularly the negative ones. I am not saying to whom these people refer to as it's more than one person. I go to other tinnitus forums and someone commented they left TT for this reason. This is very true I'm not making it up. Tinnitus can be a very debilitating condition and some people have a lot of difficulty coping with it.

Regarding Jazzer having a choice. He mentioned that he was always aware of loud sounds causing hearing damage but still played in a band and I fully agree. Even wearing hearing protection doesn't mean a person safe. I believe Jazzer was right to continue playing music as it's a wonderful thing to be able to play an instrument. Sadly, a couple people I know have had to stop playing music for a living due to tinnitus.

Michael

 

[Localboy]

A few people in this forum have telephoned me.

A few people have telephoned me too, they told they are frustrated with your misinformed advice and have left the forum as a result. What do you think about that?

Then a serious of further sound exposures changed things for the worse. Much worse. Now, I have seriously reactive tinnitus that has been getting progressively worse for two years. The only thing that helps is to avoid even moderate sound levels. And limit the time my ears are exposed. I also believe that stress can permanently damage the ears. My "moderation" has changed. Maybe it will improve, I don't know. Just a cautionary tale. I do agree that living a life of isolation and anxiety is no life at all. I don't think Bill is advocating such a thing.

This discussion can soon digress into "there is tinnitus and there is TINNITUS - does loudness matter"

 

[threefirefour]

A few people have telephoned me too, they told they are frustrated with your misinformed advice and have left the forum as a result. What do you think about that?

 

[TuneOut]

Who is bill bauer?

My god man, have you been living in a cave??

 

[glynis]

I can't believe this thread is still going....
Should be renamed
GET IT OFF YOUR CHEST !
Love glynis x

 

[GregCA]

I can't believe this thread is still going....

Having the last word on the internet should always be the highest priority of the day (and of the night!).

 

[Sebastians]

My god man, have you been living in a cave??

Yeah, some forum guru told me to stay away from noise

 

[Michael Leigh]

A few people have telephoned me too, they told they are frustrated with your misinformed advice and have left the forum as a result. What do you think about that?

I can't please everyone....

 

[Michael Leigh]

Yeah, some forum guru told me to stay away from noise

I like this....

 

[Tom Cnyc]

nobody 'hates" Bill. I disagree with what he considers dangerous. I agree we should take care of our ears. I know two people that improved despite remaining in bands and working on garbage tracks though.

I'm not 100% out of the weeds, but in the last year I've gone to like 6 concerts and nothing bad has happened.

Some threads on this page encourage some really risky behavior. Removing smoke alarms. Disabling air bags. etc. Don't do that type of dumb shit people.

This thread is beyond toxic by the way.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Yeah, some forum guru told me to stay away from noise

If the person were to just Tell you to do something, then the above would make sense. If that person were to back up whatever they were saying with evidence, then the only fair criticism of it would be "some forum person used evidence that I didn't find to be convincing, to argue in favor of staying away from noise."

 

[glynis]

@Tom Cnyc
Nice to see you on here again.
You have been quiet.
It's getting better than TV soaps on here ....
Joking it needs stopping before everyone turns into a monster...
Love glynis x

 

[Bill Bauer]

I know two people that improved despite remaining in bands and working on garbage tracks though.

Interesting!

Some threads on this page encourage some really risky behavior. Removing smoke alarms. Disabling air bags.

I read all of the posts in this thread, and this is the first time this got mentioned.

All I will say is that I chose to disable my fire alarm. I wish they were to sell alarms with adjustable volume, or alarms that use flashing lights and no sound, but they don't.

 

[threefirefour]

nobody 'hates" Bill. I disagree with what he considers dangerous. I agree we should take care of our ears. I know two people that improved despite remaining in bands and working on garbage tracks though.

I'm not 100% out of the weeds, but in the last year I've gone to like 6 concerts and nothing bad has happened.

Some threads on this page encourage some really risky behavior. Removing smoke alarms. Disabling air bags. etc. Don't do that type of dumb shit people.

Hey what's up? Glad your tinnitus is getting better by the way. It's weird that some people don't do anything to improve their tinnitus, but it improves, and then there's others that keep their hearing as safe as possible but the tinnitus gets worse.

This thread is beyond toxic by the way.

Best kind of thread :.P

 

[Sam Bridge]

nobody 'hates" Bill. I disagree with what he considers dangerous. I agree we should take care of our ears. I know two people that improved despite remaining in bands and working on garbage tracks though.

I'm not 100% out of the weeds, but in the last year I've gone to like 6 concerts and nothing bad has happened.

Some threads on this page encourage some really risky behavior. Removing smoke alarms. Disabling air bags. etc. Don't do that type of dumb shit people.

This thread is beyond toxic by the way.

You have a permanent spike from those 6 concerts though right...

Hey what's up? Glad your tinnitus is getting better by the way. It's weird that some people don't do anything to improve their tinnitus, but it improves, and then there's others that keep their hearing as safe as possible but the tinnitus gets worse.

Best kind of thread :.P

Genetics init. My uncle goes to concerts no protection, he says t is a bit louder until the next day. He is 51 and has had tinnitus for years. If you go on musician forums you will see similar people there.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Interesting!

I read all of the posts in this thread, and this is the first time this got mentioned.

All I will say is that I chose to disable my fire alarm. I wish they were to sell alarms with adjustable volume, or alarms that use flashing lights and no sound, but they don't.

Threads on this site. not posts in this thread.

Dude, put the freakin battery back in your alarm. That's beyond paranoid. I had an alarm go off on me once. It wasn't a big deal. They're not 130db.

 

[john paul]

I think i like Bill, i can understand why some people dont get him, I'm sure he understands why that is too but he's trying to make people better, NOT WORSE and that deserves PRAISE and nothing else. It takes a strong individual to prefer the life he chooses. It took me a while to realise that socialising is really not in my best interest either because it just doesn't do me any good but thats just me. Its hard to accept thats how it is, but 35 years into this journey and I'm still figuring out who i am, and whats best for me. Iv also been through 3 major relationships in my life and each one ended with the girl just swapping me for someone else and becoming someone else so i have also learnt that women are just not for me either. Takes a while to realise where you have been going wrong in life sometimes and thats just my story, everyone is different everyone is entitled to their opinion, usually based from experience. Experience usually comes with age.

 

[Bill Bauer]

It took me a while to realise that socialising is really not in my best interest either because it just doesn't do me any good

Same here.

 

[Red]

When it comes to tinnitus research and knowledge, I'd compare everything that we know to the medicine of humors. No one has truly figured out the condition so I do not accept any one's advice to be factual. Experience alone is not enough. Advice must also hold merit.

While Bill may be a relative newcomer to tinnitus, it's his appreciation towards rationale and free thought that help win me over. His statements make the most logical sense to me. If you get a spike, for example, what do you think your ears are trying to say to you? The answer to the thread's question is that Bill gives advice that requires some life changes, similar to how an individual with high blood pressure or diabetes is reluctant to give up salt or sugar. And also, while it both surprised and impressed me to find someone truly as antisocial as Bill is, his lack of charisma does not surprise me at all.. That is a weakness that hurts his credibility for some. Even eccentric viewpoints, as demonstrated by this, can hurt that.

Most of the people here wouldn't be able to survive being dealt chronic pain. Because chronic pain means having to give up some things. For most people with chronic pain, there is not only constant pain, but the risk of aggravating said pain. Sounds a little familiar, doesn't it? Some members here also deal with chronic pain, and though they are regulars, they are often not on the forefront because that is what life demands. I meant to tear into another member here about the insult that is suggesting that tinnitus is worse than chronic pain. But the pain has been kicking my ass lately and even making this post was an unwise one for me.

 

[Bill Bauer]

his lack of charisma does not surprise me at all

Wait, what!??! LOL

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I don't think that noise as singular is a primary cause of tinnitus, less the noise is really loud and directed straight into the auditory complex. Tinnitus can also be caused by physical elements such as forward head bending, posture, diseases and conditions associated with the central nervous system, pinched nerves, muscle contractions, disk problems, a comprised spine, TMJ, infections, blood flow and circulation.

So when we tell someone to protect their ears, we should also discuss a lot more for evaluation. One researcher told me that birth by c -section with pressure to the cervical spine is under estimated as a later in life cause of tinnitus. An accident early in life can later set up the stage for tinnitus later in life. That forward head bending is by far the most underestimated element in getting tinnitus.

 

[TuneOut]

Threads on this site. not posts in this thread.

Dude, put the freakin battery back in your alarm. That's beyond paranoid. I had an alarm go off on me once. It wasn't a big deal. They're not 130db.

Our fire alarm rang and my girlfriend couldn't turn it off for about 20 seconds. She said her ears were ringing right after. Fortunately, it didn't last long. I've had the alarm go off from cooking (burning) but I keep my earmuffs close so I can put them on quickly and shut it off.

 

[Gman]

I agree with a lot in what you say and it's one of the reasons, I rarely use other threads or website links to backup my posts, particularly when writing about noise induced tinnitus. If one isn't careful, there is a danger of creating fear and anxiety in the reader, especially if they are new to tinnitus which we all know, can be difficult to deal with in the early stages.

Michael

I quit jogging after a post you made about it posing a risk of permanently worsening ones tinnitus. I had been experiencing clicking in my ears. That post was written in a way that could easily trigger fear and anxiety and was not backed up with any facts or evidence, as far as a I can recall anyway.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I quit jogging after a post you made about it posing a risk of permanently worsening ones tinnitus. I had been experiencing clicking in my ears. That post was written in a way that could easily trigger fear and anxiety and was not backed up with any facts or evidence, as far as a I can recall anyway.

@Gman
That was your choice to quit jogging. If you read the post again, I believe I mentioned "some people that have tinnitus" it can be made worse by running on hard ground or on a treatmill due to impact underfoot. The impact travels up through the legs, body, head and auditory system and can affect the inner ear. Some people have contacted me that have tinnitus and stopped running because it made their tinnitus worse. Others have reported running makes no difference. I have a website link, where tests were carried out in Canada by doctors, saying certain aerobic excercises can make tinnitus worse for some people.

We are all different, many things can make tinnitus worse and also improve the condition and they don't all have to be medically proven. It is a person's choice whether they choose to try my suggestions or not. You are clearly out to cause trouble with me and that is not what I'm here for, so this will be the last time I will be corresponding with you.

I wish you well
Michael

 

[Gman]

@Gman
That was your choice to quit jogging. If you read the post again, I believe I mentioned "some people that have tinnitus" it can be made worse by running on hard ground or on a treatmill due to impact underfoot. The impact travels up through the legs, body, head and auditory system and can affect the inner ear. Some people have contacted me that have tinnitus and stopped running because it made their tinnitus worse. Others have reported running makes no difference. I have a website link, where tests were carried out in Canada by doctors, saying certain aerobic excercises can make tinnitus worse for some people.

We are all different, many things can make tinnitus worse and also improve the condition and they don't all have to be medically proven. It is a person's choice whether they choose to try my suggestions or not. You are clearly out to cause trouble with me and that is not what I'm here for, so this will be the last time I will be corresponding with you.

I wish you well
Michael

No, I'm not out to cause trouble with you. Merely responding to your comments about the risks of creating a sense of fear and anxiety when posting on this forum.
Also the baseless 'never use earphones/headphones even at low volumes' mentality.
You can post what you want, but realise you can also instil fear and anxiety with what you write.

 

[fishbone]

Folks if you read a post that instils fear, anxiety and possibly depression....I want you to take everything that you read with a grain of salt. No one advice can be a FIT-ALL solution for everyone. Not everyone will get tinnitus because of loud noises. I have had an interesting 2-3 months full of accidents and they been very loud as well. If i had encountered these accidents when I freshly got my tinnitus, I would have FREAKED out.

In the past few years, I just let things go. Accidents will happen, we need to protect our ears, but accidents will happen. That STRESS/ANXIETY is a huge culprit in causing spikes. I have dropped dishes, plates, glass, slammed doors, stepped on multiple air packets, accidentally had the volume max on my car's bose system, blue tooth speaker.

Point is that do not let posts SCARE you, not all folks will feel the same after a situation. Protect your ears, but still live that one life we have on this earth. If you are an INTROVERT by nature, sweet...stay as one and enjoy your life. If you are an EXTROVERT, do not let tinnitus make you an INTROVERT. Yes, you can still live a life even with your ears ringing. In the end its WE who chose the life we want to live and not tinnitus.

We can still do activities that are safe for our ears and enjoy ourselves. I also firmly believe in listening to people that have years of experience with tinnitus. Living with something and trying many possible solutions over the years is more important than getting your information from other people's post and reading about them. I will always take a teacher with experience, than one that has just read posts and then wants to teach me

I am not a scientist and will not get into the scientific discussions on this site, but 30 years of living with this and practically..... I have done it all in the possible treatments and solutions that have existed.

Ok, you shall resume now

 

[Taylorslay]

I think Bill is a bit pessimistic about some situations. But that's good. Because you need to understand bother sides. The side that is encouraging and positive and the side that's warning you to be cautious. People probably don't like that he is very blunt and a tad negative. But his voice is very important to discussion.