Member@Leah, I am curious. Where did you get the idea that CBT has anything to do with tuning out your tinnitus?
Dr. Stephen Nagler
Why Does Treadmill Make It Worse :(
- Thread starter Leah
- Start date
@Leah, I am curious. Where did you get the idea that CBT has anything to do with tuning out your tinnitus?
Dr. Stephen Nagler
MemberI am using treadmill myself. I have no choice because my family doctor said I am border-line diabetic and need 30 minutes of exercise per day for at least 5 days a week. Being here in frigid north in winter with stormy weather outdoor, treadmill at home is the only way to go for me. I got my treadmill set up to face the TV so I walk/run on the treadmill and watch TV together, LOL. It is a personal choice to use the treadmill or not for others, but I use it out of necessity for the last 2 years and my T is still the same, not any worse nor going down either. It is still the same ultra high pitch dog whistle which I can hear inside a noisy plane or while fishing by the raging rapids of a salmon river. But I have to live my life heaven or hell. That is just me and my choice but I respect people need to use wisdom based on their own circumstances.
Hi @Leah. If you go into the doctor's corner and look at anything from Dr. Hubbard, he has a lot of great stuff on CBT and tinnitus. I believe he also has a website with relevant info.
Here's is the thread with examples: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/cbt-examples.6352/#post-70655
Dr. Hubbard's Website: http://cognitive-behavior-therapy.com/tinnitus-hyperacusis/
Here's is the thread with examples: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/cbt-examples.6352/#post-70655
Dr. Hubbard's Website: http://cognitive-behavior-therapy.com/tinnitus-hyperacusis/
There is a generic summary of the basis of CBT at the link below. The first half page (which I will quote in a blatant attempt at self justification) might make my rant post above slightly more explicable, although it seems I was a little misguided about the contemporary practice of it. My contention was/is that tinnitus as the 'activating event' is a genuine source of distress despite the beliefs we hold about it. But of course as awbw8 points out those beliefs often do need working on if they become self-defeating in their own right.
www.drkathyk.com/cognitivetherapy.pdf
Quote:
COGNITIVE-BEHAVIORAL THERAPY
"Men are disturbed not by things, but by the view which they take of them." Epictetus Enchiridion
Cognitive-Behavioral Therapies (CBT) are psychotherapies based on the assumption that the primary sources of psychological distress are maladaptive patterns in the way we think and act. The two major psychologists associated with the development of cognitive-behavioral therapy are Dr.s Albert Ellis and Aaron Beck. DR. ALBERT ELLIS and RATIONAL EMOTIVE BEHAVIOR THERAPY Dr. Ellis developed Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT) in the mid-1950's based on the premise that "you largely feel the way you think." Ellis argued that it is not external events but the way in which people interpret these events that causes psychological distress. Ellis uses the ABC model to explain psychological problems. When an Activating event (A) occurs, it is the beliefs (B) that cause emotional consequences (C). Therefore, rather than an external situation (A) causing emotional distress (C), it is the beliefs (B) that are the true sources of distress (C). For example, if your friend does not call you back for a few days (A), this may trigger the interpretation that she is not calling you back because she does not value your friendship which may be connected to the belief that you MUST be loved by EVERYONE in your life or else the are WORTHLESS (B), which in turn leads to feelings of overwhelming sadness (C).
Thanks everyone, will be doing some reading tonight and hopefully changing the direction I have been going.
Dr. Nagler , I believe my belief that CBT was about "not listening" came from one of my "specialists".
I could have misinterpreted what was said buy I came away with the way to cope was "just don't listen to it".
My question is now why do some cope better than others? Sure it is on these boards if I do a search, but why do some people keep searching for the cure/cause? How is that cycle stopped?
Once again , so grateful for all posts on this topic.
Yes, I went back to the treadmill.
Dr. Nagler , I believe my belief that CBT was about "not listening" came from one of my "specialists".
I could have misinterpreted what was said buy I came away with the way to cope was "just don't listen to it".
My question is now why do some cope better than others? Sure it is on these boards if I do a search, but why do some people keep searching for the cure/cause? How is that cycle stopped?
Once again , so grateful for all posts on this topic.
Yes, I went back to the treadmill.
The thing about trying not to listen to it is a key tactic that I would guess many of us use to cope day to day. There is I believe some evidence that doing the opposite and focussing on it a lot might actually aggravate it, or certainly aggravate the way we feel about it. Although I have also read something about the value in early habituation of looking your tinnitus squarely in the eye (metaphorically speaking of course) and taking the full measure of it (if that makes sense). Whatever works.Thanks everyone, will be doing some reading tonight and hopefully changing the direction I have been going.
Dr. Nagler , I believe my belief that CBT was about "not listening" came from one of my "specialists".
I could have misinterpreted what was said buy I came away with the way to cope was "just don't listen to it".
My question is now why do some cope better than others? Sure it is on these boards if I do a search, but why do some people keep searching for the cure/cause? How is that cycle stopped?
Once again , so grateful for all posts on this topic.
Yes, I went back to the treadmill.
Why do some people keep searching for the cure and how is that stopped? Well, personally I keep searching for the cure 'cos I want my tinnitus to go away. I do not want to accept it, although I recognise that it is here for a while. To me, it is a bit like your country being under foreign occupation. You have to find a level of acceptance of that that doesn't drive you mad or consume you with misery. But do you accept it completely - in your heart? Or do you look for ways to fight back? Aren't you curious about those crazy resistance gals & guys?
Of course everybody's fight back is different and my analogy is a personal one that may not work for everyone. Interesting/provocative thread this, even if we stray far from the original topic. Thanks.
Do you disagree with the idea that tinnitus might be a pain signal?
Or some warnining that something is not right? I noticed that not too many people like that idea and I wonder why not?
Well, back in 1994 when I first developed tinnitus, one neurologist told me that tinnitus was "the cry of pain from the cochlea." That was his explanation. Plain and simple.
Me? Well, twenty years later I totally reject that concept. In fact, in twenty years that was the only time I heard it explained that way.
@bwspot I have come to view things from a very pragmatic standpoint. And here is how I see it ...
First and foremost, the mere presence of tinnitus in-and-of-itself is a normal physiological phenomenon. Now before everybody here jumps all over me for saying that tinnitus is normal, I do not for one minute believe that what folks who seek out sites like this one have is in any way normal. But what I am saying is that since almost everybody "without tinnitus" will become aware of tinnitus if placed in a totally sound-isolated chamber for a long enough period of time, the problem is not one of the existence of internally-generated sounds but rather the awareness of those sounds and the degree to which those sounds affect you. (Certainly the loudness of those sounds plays a role in both of those regards.) The way I have come see it from a clinical standpoint is that since the problem with tinnitus is one of degree rather than its mere existence, the presence of tinnitus in-and-of itself does not necessarily mean that anything is wrong, nor should it necessarily be interpreted as some sort of pain signal.
What does all that mean from a practical standpoint? It means that you should pay attention to your overall health independent of whether or not you happen to have tinnitus and not view your tinnitus as some sort of barometer.
That's my take on it, anyway.
Dr. Stephen Nagler
Hi @Leah and @bwspot, I know this question wasn't exactly directed at me, but I'll put in my 2 cents anyway! I think in every case tinnitus (when audible in normal circumstances) is signaling that something is "wrong." However, that does not mean that whatever is causing the tinnitus is going to be harmful in a worsening way. My tinnitus, for example, is from loud noise exposure, so my tinnitus is an ongoing sign of past injury. However, the injury is over. If you have tinnitus from a tumor or something of that nature, then obviously that's a different, but rare case. My friend has tinnitus from an auto-immune disease, so his T is a sign of the continuing deterioration of his physical state.
All of that said, tinnitus (like pain, if you want to go down that road) doesn't necessarily need to be babysat forever. Just because T is a sign of an injury that happened doesn't mean it's something you need to try to fix forever - a filling is a sign you had to fix a tooth - it's not the tooth you had before, but it still works - it's doesn't necessarily signal that something new and bad is happening now. In my case, from what doctors and the ever-reliable internet have told me, T is an adaptation to an injury - likely my brain filling in a missing spot. So yes, something is "wrong" as in "not ideal" in my body - but we're all mortals. Things are going to fall apart as we age and not all of them will be fixable. We put on some patches and continue onward.
I'm not so much looking for a cure, I come back more to try and offer a little help. That's therapeutic to me and hopefully a little helpful for others. In my day-to-day life though, T doesn't dictate much of anything, I don't even regard it with any malice, it just "is." Those feelings may change, but that's where I'm at today. Of course if a cure comes up and it's not risky, I'd take it, anyone would, but if my T were to stay as it is for the rest of my life, that's a not an idea that causes me any upset anymore.
For the CBT, it's not about not listening in the way you're thinking - that's like saying "don't think about pink elephants." My therapist actually encouraged me to listen to it, try to face it one day at a time, so I wasn't constantly trying to run from it, if that makes sense. If you look at the pink elephant and you're like, "Ok, there's a pink elephant in this room. There he is." Then you can start to ignore it and "not hear it." Honestly, CBT did not cure me and I doubt it's going to "make" anyone habituate, but it will give you tools to make getting there a little less painful I think. Talking to someone was the best part of it for me. It got me out of my own head for an hour a week - that was hugely important. Habituation is going to happen with time, that is the key ingredient. You can help by getting out of your own way a little, but mostly, I think, it's your brain getting there, behind the scenes. It all sounds a bit mystical, but my experience of it has been rather mystical - the body at work!
Also, kudos to you for getting back on the treadmill! Woo!
All of that said, tinnitus (like pain, if you want to go down that road) doesn't necessarily need to be babysat forever. Just because T is a sign of an injury that happened doesn't mean it's something you need to try to fix forever - a filling is a sign you had to fix a tooth - it's not the tooth you had before, but it still works - it's doesn't necessarily signal that something new and bad is happening now. In my case, from what doctors and the ever-reliable internet have told me, T is an adaptation to an injury - likely my brain filling in a missing spot. So yes, something is "wrong" as in "not ideal" in my body - but we're all mortals. Things are going to fall apart as we age and not all of them will be fixable. We put on some patches and continue onward.
I'm not so much looking for a cure, I come back more to try and offer a little help. That's therapeutic to me and hopefully a little helpful for others. In my day-to-day life though, T doesn't dictate much of anything, I don't even regard it with any malice, it just "is." Those feelings may change, but that's where I'm at today. Of course if a cure comes up and it's not risky, I'd take it, anyone would, but if my T were to stay as it is for the rest of my life, that's a not an idea that causes me any upset anymore.
For the CBT, it's not about not listening in the way you're thinking - that's like saying "don't think about pink elephants." My therapist actually encouraged me to listen to it, try to face it one day at a time, so I wasn't constantly trying to run from it, if that makes sense. If you look at the pink elephant and you're like, "Ok, there's a pink elephant in this room. There he is." Then you can start to ignore it and "not hear it." Honestly, CBT did not cure me and I doubt it's going to "make" anyone habituate, but it will give you tools to make getting there a little less painful I think. Talking to someone was the best part of it for me. It got me out of my own head for an hour a week - that was hugely important. Habituation is going to happen with time, that is the key ingredient. You can help by getting out of your own way a little, but mostly, I think, it's your brain getting there, behind the scenes. It all sounds a bit mystical, but my experience of it has been rather mystical - the body at work!
Also, kudos to you for getting back on the treadmill! Woo!
What would I do without all of the kind people on this board?
Thanks for taking the time to share.
Making calls today to see about CBT
In my area.
Today is a miserable T day, but went off to the gym and did elliptical anyway. That was a big step for me.
My usual response would be lay low day.
Anytime you are in my area, stop in
Dinner on me.
Thanks for taking the time to share.
Making calls today to see about CBT
In my area.
Today is a miserable T day, but went off to the gym and did elliptical anyway. That was a big step for me.
My usual response would be lay low day.
Anytime you are in my area, stop in
Dinner on me.
When I can, I jog outside but now that it's so dark in the morning and I have to be at work at 8:00--I tried my treadmill. It is such a chore. I would so much rather be outside! I haven't noticed any change in my T from exercising--my T does whatever it feels like doing, no matter what I do. I just try to keep busy until I forget about it.
Thanks Kathie, has been a miserable T day, reading up on
CBT. I am pretty certain I have found a doctor, but long wait to get in. I pray for the day that I forget about it.
Glad you are doing ok. The treadmill can be so tedious, went to the gym today to use the equipment.
CBT. I am pretty certain I have found a doctor, but long wait to get in. I pray for the day that I forget about it.
Glad you are doing ok. The treadmill can be so tedious, went to the gym today to use the equipment.
Everyone says that getting enough sleep is paramount in being better with T.
I am at a loss as to what to do. Perhaps @Dr. Nagler will have some ideas that hopefully will involve, please and with the greatest of respect, more than a one liner that sounds smart but in fact offers little help. I am taking the melantonin which helps countless people on this forum and others. Me, well last night I got 3 hours and so on and so forth each night. I wake up exhausted and cannot face any more days. Lack of sleep is making it worse and worse. It is not me and my thoughts that are causing this. Before T, I was sleeping like a baby regardless of any stress or problems. All that I am going through now is a direct result of this T and nothing else. How can I pretend otherwise. I face each day and try to ignore the T but it is there. I have tried with noise background and without but nothing is making any difference. This morning after my 3 hours sleep, I lay there hoping that I would hop onto another wave of sleep but it didnt happen and I just became more and more nervous with waves of nervousness flooding through my body. This is not something that I am creating @Dr. Nagler but it is something that is happening to me and over which I have no control in spite of what you say. I am sure that it is like this for many others. Any ideas on how to sleep more? I dont need to here about sleep hygiene as I have read this. I never had to practice sleep hygiene before T. So if it is something I am creating then how and why am I creating this lack of sleep. No this is a symptom of what I am suffering and believe me when I say suffering. I have never in my life been so debilitated as I am now and I have seen and done a lot in different ways in different countries but this is a killer - I want to live my life and be who i was before but i cannot get off this problem at all - no sleep which makes it worse. The meds that the doctor prescribes, ATARAX, is noted for giving T in its side effects so how the hell can take this. Also @Dr. Nagler re a previous post of yours, I have not yet found a way to beg or borrow the money for TRT and cannot steal it cos I would end up a criminal in jail. Perhaps if people like Dr Nagler and his colleagues who are said to be fantastic including Julian Hill (on this forum) were to charge less then maybe i and others could find a way to have this therapy and get better. Unfortunately, their charges are so high that it makes this financially prohibitive to many of us like me and I am sure that others would agree with me on this.
I do have an idea for the doctors on this forum including Julian Hill in London. Would each one of them or one of them including our resident doctor Dr Nagler be prepared to offer one member on this forum a free (on skype maybe due to geographical location and distance involved) therapy. This would then be used as a proof that what they say is true true true and does definitiely work and would then be a great help to many on this forum. It would be great advertising for the doctors and Julian Hill, good for business for them so to speak as they would be speaking thereafter to a captive audience and a never ending supply of patients to treat even of over skype (which Dr Nagler says works just as well). I would like to offer myself please as the potential patient to receive therapy free cos i do not have the funds to pay their fees - I barely have a roof over my head and enogh to pay for the milk. But am a willing and wanting candidate for therapy and as my T is early on, may also be a very good candidate for it to work. Come on doctors and Julian Hill, could you go ahead on this and offer a freebie over skype - I promise to faithfully follow everything that I am told or encouraged to do and will be forever grateful if there is a way to help alleviate my suffering. I would have no hesitation to tell how well I am doing all over this forum and anywhere else the doctors would like me to give out the info - just a thought.
Bit like those who insist that the super natural is real are then challenged to checks on this to prove it once and for all but then somehow they refuse to undertake these challenges.
I hope that this is not the case with our doctors or Julian Hill and that the challenge of treating for free one or more (perhaps one for each therapist here) members of this forum will be looked at seriously and favourably and on a personal level I may get some help with this awful problem. Please do not dismiss me out of hand. I know that this post and request may not be what i should write but I think that it is a good idea and will rid the sceptics once it can be shown that it really works - which would be so much better than one line answers I think for most on this forum.
Also any ideas as to what to do about the sleep problem?
thanks for reading and looking forward to hearing
I am at a loss as to what to do. Perhaps @Dr. Nagler will have some ideas that hopefully will involve, please and with the greatest of respect, more than a one liner that sounds smart but in fact offers little help. I am taking the melantonin which helps countless people on this forum and others. Me, well last night I got 3 hours and so on and so forth each night. I wake up exhausted and cannot face any more days. Lack of sleep is making it worse and worse. It is not me and my thoughts that are causing this. Before T, I was sleeping like a baby regardless of any stress or problems. All that I am going through now is a direct result of this T and nothing else. How can I pretend otherwise. I face each day and try to ignore the T but it is there. I have tried with noise background and without but nothing is making any difference. This morning after my 3 hours sleep, I lay there hoping that I would hop onto another wave of sleep but it didnt happen and I just became more and more nervous with waves of nervousness flooding through my body. This is not something that I am creating @Dr. Nagler but it is something that is happening to me and over which I have no control in spite of what you say. I am sure that it is like this for many others. Any ideas on how to sleep more? I dont need to here about sleep hygiene as I have read this. I never had to practice sleep hygiene before T. So if it is something I am creating then how and why am I creating this lack of sleep. No this is a symptom of what I am suffering and believe me when I say suffering. I have never in my life been so debilitated as I am now and I have seen and done a lot in different ways in different countries but this is a killer - I want to live my life and be who i was before but i cannot get off this problem at all - no sleep which makes it worse. The meds that the doctor prescribes, ATARAX, is noted for giving T in its side effects so how the hell can take this. Also @Dr. Nagler re a previous post of yours, I have not yet found a way to beg or borrow the money for TRT and cannot steal it cos I would end up a criminal in jail. Perhaps if people like Dr Nagler and his colleagues who are said to be fantastic including Julian Hill (on this forum) were to charge less then maybe i and others could find a way to have this therapy and get better. Unfortunately, their charges are so high that it makes this financially prohibitive to many of us like me and I am sure that others would agree with me on this.
I do have an idea for the doctors on this forum including Julian Hill in London. Would each one of them or one of them including our resident doctor Dr Nagler be prepared to offer one member on this forum a free (on skype maybe due to geographical location and distance involved) therapy. This would then be used as a proof that what they say is true true true and does definitiely work and would then be a great help to many on this forum. It would be great advertising for the doctors and Julian Hill, good for business for them so to speak as they would be speaking thereafter to a captive audience and a never ending supply of patients to treat even of over skype (which Dr Nagler says works just as well). I would like to offer myself please as the potential patient to receive therapy free cos i do not have the funds to pay their fees - I barely have a roof over my head and enogh to pay for the milk. But am a willing and wanting candidate for therapy and as my T is early on, may also be a very good candidate for it to work. Come on doctors and Julian Hill, could you go ahead on this and offer a freebie over skype - I promise to faithfully follow everything that I am told or encouraged to do and will be forever grateful if there is a way to help alleviate my suffering. I would have no hesitation to tell how well I am doing all over this forum and anywhere else the doctors would like me to give out the info - just a thought.
Bit like those who insist that the super natural is real are then challenged to checks on this to prove it once and for all but then somehow they refuse to undertake these challenges.
I hope that this is not the case with our doctors or Julian Hill and that the challenge of treating for free one or more (perhaps one for each therapist here) members of this forum will be looked at seriously and favourably and on a personal level I may get some help with this awful problem. Please do not dismiss me out of hand. I know that this post and request may not be what i should write but I think that it is a good idea and will rid the sceptics once it can be shown that it really works - which would be so much better than one line answers I think for most on this forum.
Also any ideas as to what to do about the sleep problem?
thanks for reading and looking forward to hearing
That's really pushing it, as far as I'm concerned.
I spend a lot of time on this board offering advice, asking nothing at all in return. Whether you believe it or not is really not my concern, and to tell you the truth I'm pretty mad at your suggestion that I have to somehow "prove myself" by offering somebody free TRT.
As an aside, and for what it's worth, I already did that - fifteen years ago. That patient even set up a very rudimentary website to discuss his experience:
http://tinnguy.tripod.com/index-1.html
Lastly, I do not do Skype TRT. I do TRT follow-up by Skype for people living at a distance. But the initial evaluation and counseling visit has to be face-to-face in person.
Dr. Stephen Nagler
@Dr. Nagler
Thank you for your reply.
Well I never said that you have to prove yourself. This is your reaction to my words. So please dont get angry with me. After all we all know now that anger and stress will only inflame the T so I prefer to keep things as positive as possible including communications with you and on this forum. It was never my intention to upset or annoy you so please forgive me if I have done so. I hunbly apologise for any upset caused.
This post is not aimed at you alone Dr Nagler but at all the doctors and also hopefully to Julian Hill as well. To all the doctors and Julian Hill, please accept my apologies here and now if I have offended or upset any or all o you in any way at all - SORRY!!
However, I was only suggesting that this could be of great and positive help to people on this forum and elsewhere to see that it does work really well and would encourage them to get the therapy that they need with the right people.
It is not that they or I dont want help. They and I do desperately. Fees are expensive and one liner responses sometimes do not help them or me although I appreciate that it is your intention to help as much as you can and that you do all this for free. As you do all this for free now on this forum, then please would you offer your services for therapy for free to one person...maybe .....
I certainly want some therapy please.
You did say in another post that you do skype therapy but I appreciate that the initial visit has to be in person. I appreciate as do others that you give of your time freely on this forum and I never suggested otherwise. However, if you did this for someone else 15 years ago, then maybe it could have been a good idea to repeat the process again (for me or someone else).
Also, please do you have any idea as to what i can do re only managing 3 hours sleep a night which is directly due to T.
thanking you in advance for all your help and advice
Thank you for your reply.
Well I never said that you have to prove yourself. This is your reaction to my words. So please dont get angry with me. After all we all know now that anger and stress will only inflame the T so I prefer to keep things as positive as possible including communications with you and on this forum. It was never my intention to upset or annoy you so please forgive me if I have done so. I hunbly apologise for any upset caused.
This post is not aimed at you alone Dr Nagler but at all the doctors and also hopefully to Julian Hill as well. To all the doctors and Julian Hill, please accept my apologies here and now if I have offended or upset any or all o you in any way at all - SORRY!!
However, I was only suggesting that this could be of great and positive help to people on this forum and elsewhere to see that it does work really well and would encourage them to get the therapy that they need with the right people.
It is not that they or I dont want help. They and I do desperately. Fees are expensive and one liner responses sometimes do not help them or me although I appreciate that it is your intention to help as much as you can and that you do all this for free. As you do all this for free now on this forum, then please would you offer your services for therapy for free to one person...maybe .....
I certainly want some therapy please.
You did say in another post that you do skype therapy but I appreciate that the initial visit has to be in person. I appreciate as do others that you give of your time freely on this forum and I never suggested otherwise. However, if you did this for someone else 15 years ago, then maybe it could have been a good idea to repeat the process again (for me or someone else).
Also, please do you have any idea as to what i can do re only managing 3 hours sleep a night which is directly due to T.
thanking you in advance for all your help and advice
Sure you did. You said: "This would then be used as a proof that what they say is true."
Not interested. Been there. Done that. I see no reason to do it again.
Dr. Stephen Nagler
@Dr. Nagler
Ok, thanks for the response which I appreciate you did to help and that you do this asking for nothing in return. I wont discuss this with you any more cos it sounds like you are getting angry with me which was not the purpose of my post whatsoever - I take full responsibility for your anger towards me so I apologise.
Always grateful for your advice
By the way, have you any ideas as to what I can do to get more sleep - only getting 3 hours a night hence my posts may be written not clearly or well.
Ok, thanks for the response which I appreciate you did to help and that you do this asking for nothing in return. I wont discuss this with you any more cos it sounds like you are getting angry with me which was not the purpose of my post whatsoever - I take full responsibility for your anger towards me so I apologise.
Always grateful for your advice
By the way, have you any ideas as to what I can do to get more sleep - only getting 3 hours a night hence my posts may be written not clearly or well.
Hi @amandine, getting more sleep is extremely important, you're right.
You should go to a doctor/psychiatrist and ask about getting a sleeping aid - if the one you have isn't working, get another. It took me three different drugs to find one that would knock me out for more than three hours. If you have the means, I would go talk to a regular psychiatrist if possible - just having someone to talk to can help.
There is plenty that you can do to help yourself that is free or very low cost. It will take work on your part though and a little faith in time - you're not going to see any overnight change. I would recommend doing some yoga. I did the calming sequence in this video every morning and night until I could fall asleep without medication. Not "any yoga" is good for this - if it's some kind of crazy workout, it wont help. It has to be something that is intended to calm your nervous system through breathing and movement. http://www.katepotteryoga.ca/namasteDVD5.html
If even this is too much, youtube is full of things which I'm sure are somewhat comparable. It has all kinds of guided mindfulness exercises etc. and you can find a lot of CBT resources online. Again, it's a lot of work, but CBT is something you can do yourself.
It's not an easy road, that's the truth of it, but do not think that you need expensive therapy to get better. I did try some things that cost money, but I went from near suicidal to pretty much fine without any of that really making the difference. I'm not the first one to be able to say that. The most important thing is getting support and taking one step at a time, keep positive, things can get better and you don't need piles of money to get there.
You should go to a doctor/psychiatrist and ask about getting a sleeping aid - if the one you have isn't working, get another. It took me three different drugs to find one that would knock me out for more than three hours. If you have the means, I would go talk to a regular psychiatrist if possible - just having someone to talk to can help.
There is plenty that you can do to help yourself that is free or very low cost. It will take work on your part though and a little faith in time - you're not going to see any overnight change. I would recommend doing some yoga. I did the calming sequence in this video every morning and night until I could fall asleep without medication. Not "any yoga" is good for this - if it's some kind of crazy workout, it wont help. It has to be something that is intended to calm your nervous system through breathing and movement. http://www.katepotteryoga.ca/namasteDVD5.html
If even this is too much, youtube is full of things which I'm sure are somewhat comparable. It has all kinds of guided mindfulness exercises etc. and you can find a lot of CBT resources online. Again, it's a lot of work, but CBT is something you can do yourself.
It's not an easy road, that's the truth of it, but do not think that you need expensive therapy to get better. I did try some things that cost money, but I went from near suicidal to pretty much fine without any of that really making the difference. I'm not the first one to be able to say that. The most important thing is getting support and taking one step at a time, keep positive, things can get better and you don't need piles of money to get there.
@Nick the Swede
thanks for your reply. I understood that antihistamines are not so good to take at least regularly but I could be wrong easily on this.
My doctor (useless) gave me prexcription for ATARAX which I think is an anti histamine maybe. It says as one of the side effects is Tinnitus so I havent taken it.
I have tried 2mg night Melatonin but not making any difference. With this night melatonin comes a day melatonin which I take as well. Both of them have zinc and magnesium but the day one has gingka as well.
Problem is that when I ask my doctor for something she gets mad (she is my 3rd doctor, they are all the same here) and so far I have been told that it is not available here. Or that it is prescibed for car or plane journeys so she wont prescribe it for me to sleep. What is possible in the states is not possible in france always even tho it may be available in the UK.
I shall try and ask her for Mirtazapine and see how that goes.
All she and my ENT gave me were Atarax and xaxax.
Is Atarax same as Mirtazapine?
thanks
thanks for your reply. I understood that antihistamines are not so good to take at least regularly but I could be wrong easily on this.
My doctor (useless) gave me prexcription for ATARAX which I think is an anti histamine maybe. It says as one of the side effects is Tinnitus so I havent taken it.
I have tried 2mg night Melatonin but not making any difference. With this night melatonin comes a day melatonin which I take as well. Both of them have zinc and magnesium but the day one has gingka as well.
Problem is that when I ask my doctor for something she gets mad (she is my 3rd doctor, they are all the same here) and so far I have been told that it is not available here. Or that it is prescibed for car or plane journeys so she wont prescribe it for me to sleep. What is possible in the states is not possible in france always even tho it may be available in the UK.
I shall try and ask her for Mirtazapine and see how that goes.
All she and my ENT gave me were Atarax and xaxax.
Is Atarax same as Mirtazapine?
thanks
@awbw8
Thank you so much for taking the time to message back and I shall certainly look at your link and see if i can make things better.
I cant anyway have these expensive treatments due to a lack o financial strength.
Just hoped naively perhaps that one of the therapists or doctors on this forum may have a benevolent nature towards me and offer to help me out.....but of course why should they. This is their business and how they survive financially. I just want help to get out of the dark hole in am in, into the light of life.
If I did receive therapy then I would post regular updates on this forum to let people know that I am improving (hopefully) and recommend such therapy to all of our members here and to those outside of this forum.
I have only heard from Dr Nagler so far regarding this so there is still hope that I may get some therapy - sadly everywhere i have turned to for therapy, even outside from this forum, well it is incrediblly expensive.
If Julian Hill were to offer me help, then I would be in his office in London without fail.
However Dr Nagler did suggest to me on an earlier post that I should seek out someone who is worse off than me and give that person of my time and help for free - as this would help me and help my T.
Will look at your yoga links and thank you.
Thank you so much for taking the time to message back and I shall certainly look at your link and see if i can make things better.
I cant anyway have these expensive treatments due to a lack o financial strength.
Just hoped naively perhaps that one of the therapists or doctors on this forum may have a benevolent nature towards me and offer to help me out.....but of course why should they. This is their business and how they survive financially. I just want help to get out of the dark hole in am in, into the light of life.
If I did receive therapy then I would post regular updates on this forum to let people know that I am improving (hopefully) and recommend such therapy to all of our members here and to those outside of this forum.
I have only heard from Dr Nagler so far regarding this so there is still hope that I may get some therapy - sadly everywhere i have turned to for therapy, even outside from this forum, well it is incrediblly expensive.
If Julian Hill were to offer me help, then I would be in his office in London without fail.
However Dr Nagler did suggest to me on an earlier post that I should seek out someone who is worse off than me and give that person of my time and help for free - as this would help me and help my T.
Will look at your yoga links and thank you.
@amandine, helping others (once you get a handle on your sleep) is really theraputic. It gets your mind off of your own troubles, so I'd have to agree w/Dr. Nagler on that point.
I'm not sure that I think asking the Dr.'s/therapists here for free therapy is really fair, but again, I really do not think you need therapy to get into a better place. Look into CBT - you can do a lot by yourself. I think the most helpful part of therapy is having a human to go through a hard time with - we're all here to help with that as much as we can.
Good wishes to you.
I'm not sure that I think asking the Dr.'s/therapists here for free therapy is really fair, but again, I really do not think you need therapy to get into a better place. Look into CBT - you can do a lot by yourself. I think the most helpful part of therapy is having a human to go through a hard time with - we're all here to help with that as much as we can.
Good wishes to you.
@Nick the Swede,
Thank you for replying.
So Remeron and Ararax are both anti histamines (remeron being stronger than atarax) and therefore both have potential side effects of Tinnitus, potentially dangerous. Is that correct? Please tell me whether I have understood correctly? If I have it would seem that I can then take neither.
@awbw8
Thank you for your response.
Thank you for replying.
So Remeron and Ararax are both anti histamines (remeron being stronger than atarax) and therefore both have potential side effects of Tinnitus, potentially dangerous. Is that correct? Please tell me whether I have understood correctly? If I have it would seem that I can then take neither.
@awbw8
Thank you for your response.
Just to be clear, there are many things folks can do to get their mind off their own troubles. My suggestion about committing to performing one nonrandom act of lovingkindness each week for somebody less fortunate than yourself isn't just about getting your mind off your own troubles. It has to do with empowerment and building a resume of success. What better way to start feeling better than taking control, succeeding, and making a difference in the world. It takes but a few hours a week. And it can even be done on less than a full night's sleep! Indeed, the feeling of exhilaration and satisfaction can help you get that full night's sleep.
Dr. Stephen Nagler
@Dr. Nagler
Thought that I should just make this clear. I have always done voluntary work and I already help out voluntarily for an animal charity.
I appiied for this voluntary post before I got T. Then the 2 interviews for the post took place while I started with T. Role involves lots of telephone calls to lots of people to organise events that will raise money for the charity. Also involves me getting in touch with 'celebrities' to get their support and potentially the support of their 'followers' on facebook - all my ideas and initiative. I am used to dealing and speaking with celebreties and know how to make contact. My previous incarnation working in the media has left me with lots of contacts. Amongst my contacts list I also have the dalai lama's personal email through previous email contact with him which was to do with my media work with that part of the world. Perhaps I should contact him and ask him what i should do about my T. After all, he may know a thing or two about finding happiness within regardless of life circumstances. I am loathe to use my old work contacts to assist me with my personal problems. Nelson Mandela was also someone who I had interviewed - sadly he is now passed on. He would no doubt have great words of wisdom for me about coping with hardship and maintaining a positive attitude. I have spoken with victims of terrible atrocoties who have survived through their strength of mind over terrible persecution and terrible injuries.
However, I must add that when I spoke with those who had been in the Nazi concentration camps, for the crime of being Jewish, I asked how they had survived. it was incredible to me that they had been able to come through alive and end up with a smlle. What I discovered was that the key to their survival was by being utterly selfish. To put themselves first above anyone else otherwise they would have died. So maybe I am doing it all wrong. I am suffering now. Maybe I should be utterly selfish as that may very well be the key to my survival.
Dr Nagler a little of my history. I have always tried to give when possible. I am the one who sits down next to the down and out guy sitting on the pavement and takes time to talk with him, stroke his dog, find out who he is, speak to him like he is a human being, put some money in his pot whilst others step over him.
I am the one who stops for pensioners - when I went supermarket shopping I would see elderly people walking carrying their bags of shopping. And I would stop and offer to take the woman or man home in my car with his or her shopping . I would call social services on their behalf, organise assistance for them, go to their homes and try to help them there. I would receive often calls sometimes in the middle of the night, with an elderly person on the phone ranting and raving at me about their situation. They were angry with their situation and loneliness, not angry with me and I understood this. Quite difficult though to receive calls at 2am when I had another 13 hour shift to do the next day.
In my experience I have been treated extremely badly by nearest and dearest and received the greatest kindness and hospitality from those who had the least to offer and this includes drug addicts and prostitutes - this was when travelling and working alone in other countries (when i was young and naive i did sometimes find myself in some difficult circumstances).
I try to never judge people by their income or title or which kind of car they drive. Rather I try to look and see who is the person, not what is the person in terms of capital or status as accepted by our western society.
I know about being in need.
My grandparents ran from pogroms in russia and ended up in the UK. They worked hard, withstood great religious persecution (as i have too) and remained dignified throughout always ready to help another person and never forgetting their history. This cultural history for me has always been important and to know to remember that we can all need help in our lives and no one is better or more important than the other. We each of us has something special to offer - there is never anyone who has nothing to offer or who is not reachable through kindness and love and respect. Some may be harder than others to reach but all are reachable.
I taught kids who were really messed up emotionally due to coming from broken homes - I could understand and relate to them cos I too came from a disrupted home background and know how it can mess with your head and heart as a child. Therefore I was able to reach these kids cos we could relate to each other. In fact these kids who had fallen behind in school. due to emotional baggage, were most often some of the brightest kids you could find. In fact I found that the brighter the kid, the more the kid was messed up emotionally due to the break up of his or her family.
All of these things I did voluntarily and in different countries, different cultures and languages. Makes no difference where or who, people are essentially the same where ever you go.
So please Dr Nagler, you really are talking to the converted when you speak about doing voluntary work. I know. I love helping out and it is good for the soul and in fact always made me feel good knowing that i had helped out. It takes very little really to give a beggar in the street some hope help and respect.
The problem is now that I have a debilatating problem. My T is extremely intrusive and I am trying to work my way through it. I am finding it difficult to go out or to be sociable or even be the confident person I was before T. I seem to have changed so much in a few short months and find this whole process quite frightening - it is almost that I am going through a grieving process as I say goodbye to me.
But I dont want to go off topic. I only wanted to say that I have always tried to offer myself when I can to help others who need help and I am utterly aware of the fact that one receives far more than one gives.
But I have never been so unwell before. I feel quite debilitated and have no one to discuss this with apart from these forums.
Well there you have it. I have not found that helping others has helped my T at all....even though I have tried to continue wth my voluntary work for the animal charity which currently mainly requires a phone and a lot of chat. It is loud, intrusive and brings me no sleep and great anxiousness like waves rolling though my body. My head vibrates with the high pitched sound. I am not well. Would be nice to get some help back now that I need it .........
Just thought that perhaps it is time that i explained this to you. Although I appreciate the fact that you were telling me to go out and help others so I think less of my own problems and therefore do not concentrate on the T, it is in fact something that I already do and have done where ever I have lived.....but my T is not going anywhere and is only getting worse. So I am at a loss as to what to do or how to alleviate it.
I shall look at yoga - maybe this will help me get back on track. I am now off to go get my 4 hours of sleep.....well if Margaret Thatcher could run the UK on 4 hours sleep, then I guess I can run my life on 4 hours sleep.
But i do feel very very tired.....
Thought that I should just make this clear. I have always done voluntary work and I already help out voluntarily for an animal charity.
I appiied for this voluntary post before I got T. Then the 2 interviews for the post took place while I started with T. Role involves lots of telephone calls to lots of people to organise events that will raise money for the charity. Also involves me getting in touch with 'celebrities' to get their support and potentially the support of their 'followers' on facebook - all my ideas and initiative. I am used to dealing and speaking with celebreties and know how to make contact. My previous incarnation working in the media has left me with lots of contacts. Amongst my contacts list I also have the dalai lama's personal email through previous email contact with him which was to do with my media work with that part of the world. Perhaps I should contact him and ask him what i should do about my T. After all, he may know a thing or two about finding happiness within regardless of life circumstances. I am loathe to use my old work contacts to assist me with my personal problems. Nelson Mandela was also someone who I had interviewed - sadly he is now passed on. He would no doubt have great words of wisdom for me about coping with hardship and maintaining a positive attitude. I have spoken with victims of terrible atrocoties who have survived through their strength of mind over terrible persecution and terrible injuries.
However, I must add that when I spoke with those who had been in the Nazi concentration camps, for the crime of being Jewish, I asked how they had survived. it was incredible to me that they had been able to come through alive and end up with a smlle. What I discovered was that the key to their survival was by being utterly selfish. To put themselves first above anyone else otherwise they would have died. So maybe I am doing it all wrong. I am suffering now. Maybe I should be utterly selfish as that may very well be the key to my survival.
Dr Nagler a little of my history. I have always tried to give when possible. I am the one who sits down next to the down and out guy sitting on the pavement and takes time to talk with him, stroke his dog, find out who he is, speak to him like he is a human being, put some money in his pot whilst others step over him.
I am the one who stops for pensioners - when I went supermarket shopping I would see elderly people walking carrying their bags of shopping. And I would stop and offer to take the woman or man home in my car with his or her shopping . I would call social services on their behalf, organise assistance for them, go to their homes and try to help them there. I would receive often calls sometimes in the middle of the night, with an elderly person on the phone ranting and raving at me about their situation. They were angry with their situation and loneliness, not angry with me and I understood this. Quite difficult though to receive calls at 2am when I had another 13 hour shift to do the next day.
In my experience I have been treated extremely badly by nearest and dearest and received the greatest kindness and hospitality from those who had the least to offer and this includes drug addicts and prostitutes - this was when travelling and working alone in other countries (when i was young and naive i did sometimes find myself in some difficult circumstances).
I try to never judge people by their income or title or which kind of car they drive. Rather I try to look and see who is the person, not what is the person in terms of capital or status as accepted by our western society.
I know about being in need.
My grandparents ran from pogroms in russia and ended up in the UK. They worked hard, withstood great religious persecution (as i have too) and remained dignified throughout always ready to help another person and never forgetting their history. This cultural history for me has always been important and to know to remember that we can all need help in our lives and no one is better or more important than the other. We each of us has something special to offer - there is never anyone who has nothing to offer or who is not reachable through kindness and love and respect. Some may be harder than others to reach but all are reachable.
I taught kids who were really messed up emotionally due to coming from broken homes - I could understand and relate to them cos I too came from a disrupted home background and know how it can mess with your head and heart as a child. Therefore I was able to reach these kids cos we could relate to each other. In fact these kids who had fallen behind in school. due to emotional baggage, were most often some of the brightest kids you could find. In fact I found that the brighter the kid, the more the kid was messed up emotionally due to the break up of his or her family.
All of these things I did voluntarily and in different countries, different cultures and languages. Makes no difference where or who, people are essentially the same where ever you go.
So please Dr Nagler, you really are talking to the converted when you speak about doing voluntary work. I know. I love helping out and it is good for the soul and in fact always made me feel good knowing that i had helped out. It takes very little really to give a beggar in the street some hope help and respect.
The problem is now that I have a debilatating problem. My T is extremely intrusive and I am trying to work my way through it. I am finding it difficult to go out or to be sociable or even be the confident person I was before T. I seem to have changed so much in a few short months and find this whole process quite frightening - it is almost that I am going through a grieving process as I say goodbye to me.
But I dont want to go off topic. I only wanted to say that I have always tried to offer myself when I can to help others who need help and I am utterly aware of the fact that one receives far more than one gives.
But I have never been so unwell before. I feel quite debilitated and have no one to discuss this with apart from these forums.
Well there you have it. I have not found that helping others has helped my T at all....even though I have tried to continue wth my voluntary work for the animal charity which currently mainly requires a phone and a lot of chat. It is loud, intrusive and brings me no sleep and great anxiousness like waves rolling though my body. My head vibrates with the high pitched sound. I am not well. Would be nice to get some help back now that I need it .........
Just thought that perhaps it is time that i explained this to you. Although I appreciate the fact that you were telling me to go out and help others so I think less of my own problems and therefore do not concentrate on the T, it is in fact something that I already do and have done where ever I have lived.....but my T is not going anywhere and is only getting worse. So I am at a loss as to what to do or how to alleviate it.
I shall look at yoga - maybe this will help me get back on track. I am now off to go get my 4 hours of sleep.....well if Margaret Thatcher could run the UK on 4 hours sleep, then I guess I can run my life on 4 hours sleep.
But i do feel very very tired.....
True. Exercise--especially vigorous exercise--will raise blood glutamate levels. But the effects are temporary. And exercise is also helpful for tinnitus sufferers, especially by inducing a sense of well being and raising serotonin levels.
If you're exercising outdoors, however, it's best to wear some type of ear protection--even if you just have some earplugs around your neck if needed.
It's not supposed to help your tinnitus.
It's supposed to help you.
Dr. Stephen Nagler
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