2020 US Presidential Election

I use to be a political libertarian but I changed when I realized how gullible and easy to manipulate the average consumer really is. Five years ago I use to joke and say "Stupid People deserve to be parted from their money" Until I realize the mass consequences it would have on society.

Tinnitus scams are a perfect example as well.
My biggest argument (to conservatives) against a fully free market society is that it assumes people will have all the information and correct instincts to make good choices (and this information will be truthful and widely available).

It also ignores the many cases where financial incentives go against the public good (private prisons are a good example).
 
I didn't vote. I just don't care anymore.

I think I developed atypical trigeminal neuralgia a couple of weeks ago. It sets off when I close my lips. I'm not surprised with all my other jaw, mouth, neck, hypertension blood pressure and whiplash problems. I get very severe sharp pain lasting minutes in lower jaw with pain to upper jaw, to ear, side of neck, cheekbone, eye and forehead. All just on left side where my mouth is messed up more. When this happens, I also get sharp abdominal pain. My high pitch somatic tinnitus disappears. I still have my hearing loss tinnitus, but it becomes a little less severe. My pulsatile hum disappears (carotid) maybe and my thump from abdominal aortic softens. All this happens during the three minutes or so of receiving sharp pain, then all tinnitus comes back within a minute.

When I lay down, most of the time, pain happens within minutes and will last until I say I need to get up.

Whenever this happens, severe eye pain can continue for hours. I do have optic disease and a weak retina.

I'm just so tired of all this pain.
 
Judge strikes down Trump plan to slash food stamps for 700,000 unemployed Americans

In a statement, New York Attorney General Letitia James called the decision "a win for common sense and basic human decency," adding that "If implemented, this rule would have not only made it harder for thousands to feed their families and risk them going hungry, but would have exacerbated the public health crisis we face and the economic recession we are still in the midst of under President Trump'."
The candidate that Christ would want.
 
What is a "freebie"? Disability pay when your life gets wrecked to no fault of your own? Medicaid to afford healthcare bills? Food stamps to... eat bread and crackers, with the occasional time where you treat yourself to frozen noodles?

Republicans love freebies. It's called a tax cut, where almost all benefits go to a few greedy people, including Lord Savior Donald J. Trump.

I'm not sure if you've ever applied for disability or not, but I can tell you how it goes. They look for any reason at all to not give it to you. I haven't been denied yet (though I think I will), but I have a friend who is also extremely disabled that was denied; he practically can't move. And yet, we're talking about being oh-so-careful not to let really disabled people (on the verge of suicide) receive the benefit of the doubt in order to obtain roughly the poverty line in benefits.

Meanwhile, someone could replace Jeff Bezos's toilet paper with $100 bills of his own money and neither he nor his accountants would even notice.

Clearly, nothing will change your mind, but I want to close with something to think about. Before I was disabled, I bought a house (with my wife) and started my new job. I received a couple of paychecks while I was able to work (before I became too disabled and had to stop). In that very short time frame, I paid more taxes than Trump did in 2017. Really, sit down, close your eyes, and process that. Then think about the quote that Trump said where he could "shoot someone and not lose votes."

And yet, someone from social security is probably going to look at my application and say "Yeah, but does he really have autoimmune inner ear disease? Is tinnitus really that distressing? What is hyperacusis? Is that something he's imagining?"

Mind you, autoimmune inner ear disease is literally diagnosed based on not having a diagnosis. In other words, despite being about as disabled as a human being can be (I haven't left my house at all (even 1 minute) in 6 months) and haven't been able to hold a conversation for 15 months.

Yet these are the people you are more worried about. It totally blows my mind, my friend.

EDIT: if it seems like I'm making this too personal, let me explain why. Because the argument I am making is that even if there was a psychopath who was able to game the system by pretending to be as disabled as I am, for every one of these people, there are thousands of people in my shoes. So, say they accidentally give a "freebie" to someone who's not disabled, but they end up helping thousands of disabled people. Doesn't that make sense?

On the other hand, if they accidentally give millions in tax breaks to ultra-wealthy, there's a 100% chance that they won't miss it. I will gladly give the sick person the benefit of the doubt in this analysis.
Both parties are responsible and don't care about you or your tinnitus problem as Greg says.
 
No need to get defensive. I was genuinely curious why not avoid Jimmy Kimmel if he is distasteful to you? He's very easy to avoid and doesn't affect your life. You seem very stressed by him being anti Trump.
How about I get you a hat? Let bygones be bygones. Consider it a B-day present. We'll both be happy then. :rockingbanana:

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Well, stop wasting time trying to figure it out. If you haven't by now, you won't ever.

We like his humor.
It's not humor. Trump is just rude and offensive:

The 15 most offensive things that have come out of Trump's mouth

https://www.politico.eu/article/15-most-offensive-things-trump-campaign-feminism-migration-racism/

Just some examples:

"I have black guys counting my money. … I hate it," Trump told John R. O'Donnell, the former president of Trump Plaza Hotel & Casino, according O'Donnell's account in his 1991 book "Trumped!" "The only guys I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes all day."

Trump, according to O'Donnell, went on to say, "'Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that."

---------------------

On how to treat women
In a New York magazine profile published in November 1992, a year after Trump divorced his first wife, Ivana, Trump was quoted dispensing his wisdom about how to handle the fairer sex.

"You have to treat 'em like shit," Trump said in the article to friend Philip Johnson, who responded, "You'd make a good mafioso."

----------------------------------
 


Captions are available, but they're auto-generated so they probably suck.
 
I use to be a political libertarian but I changed when I realized how gullible and easy to manipulate the average consumer really is. Five years ago I use to joke and say "Stupid People deserve to be parted from their money" Until I realize the mass consequences it would have on society.

Tinnitus scams are a perfect example as well.
What are you now and what should be done about stupid people who have no common sense?

If they should be protected, then how?
 
What is a "freebie"? Disability pay when your life gets wrecked to no fault of your own? Medicaid to afford healthcare bills? Food stamps to... eat bread and crackers, with the occasional time where you treat yourself to frozen noodles?

Republicans love freebies. It's called a tax cut, where almost all benefits go to a few greedy people, including Lord Savior Donald J. Trump.

I'm not sure if you've ever applied for disability or not, but I can tell you how it goes. They look for any reason at all to not give it to you. I haven't been denied yet (though I think I will), but I have a friend who is also extremely disabled that was denied; he practically can't move. And yet, we're talking about being oh-so-careful not to let really disabled people (on the verge of suicide) receive the benefit of the doubt in order to obtain roughly the poverty line in benefits.

Meanwhile, someone could replace Jeff Bezos's toilet paper with $100 bills of his own money and neither he nor his accountants would even notice.

Clearly, nothing will change your mind, but I want to close with something to think about. Before I was disabled, I bought a house (with my wife) and started my new job. I received a couple of paychecks while I was able to work (before I became too disabled and had to stop). In that very short time frame, I paid more taxes than Trump did in 2017. Really, sit down, close your eyes, and process that. Then think about the quote that Trump said where he could "shoot someone and not lose votes."

And yet, someone from social security is probably going to look at my application and say "Yeah, but does he really have autoimmune inner ear disease? Is tinnitus really that distressing? What is hyperacusis? Is that something he's imagining?"

Mind you, autoimmune inner ear disease is literally diagnosed based on not having a diagnosis. In other words, despite being about as disabled as a human being can be (I haven't left my house at all (even 1 minute) in 6 months) and haven't been able to hold a conversation for 15 months.

Yet these are the people you are more worried about. It totally blows my mind, my friend.

EDIT: if it seems like I'm making this too personal, let me explain why. Because the argument I am making is that even if there was a psychopath who was able to game the system by pretending to be as disabled as I am, for every one of these people, there are thousands of people in my shoes. So, say they accidentally give a "freebie" to someone who's not disabled, but they end up helping thousands of disabled people. Doesn't that make sense?

On the other hand, if they accidentally give millions in tax breaks to ultra-wealthy, there's a 100% chance that they won't miss it. I will gladly give the sick person the benefit of the doubt in this analysis.
Both parties don't care. Both parties have controlled the government. Democrats have done squat too. You're a hypocrite. When you vote, you are not changing anything.
 
Biden would bankrupt the country with lockdowns, closures of businesses and an economy collapse.

Ah, the reality is you're bankrupt already, theoretically.
Trump have made his businesses (the business he inherited, by the way... he did not build them himself) go bankrupt many times. And Trump does not pay his taxes either; that's why Trump is hiding his tax statements from public scrutiny.
 
(Idk if I've posted this before, but since we're talking hats, remember that...)
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(Idk if I've posted this before, but since we're talking hats, remember that...)
View attachment 41135
The problem is that you are wearing a "Make America Great Again" hat when you should be wearing a "Keep America Great" hat. Obviously, the regulars know I'm joking.

Actually, "Keep America Great" bears some truth, as I still love my country as it currently stands. To me, the phrase "Keep America Great" might as well say "Vote."
 
Trump have made his businesses (the business he inherited, by the way... he did not build them himself) go bankrupt many times. And Trump does not pay his taxes either; that's why Trump is hiding his tax statements from public scrutiny.
Nice try at changing the subject and evasion.

Businesses are laying people off, the covid hoax and shutdown caused many businesses to go broke and the economy has been up and down until the lockdown/shutdown impacted businesses. The looting and destruction of businesses by left wing rioters didn't help either. Trump isn't doing anything differently than a Biden administration would except Biden's shutdown and economic mess would likely be more aggressive thus, worse.
 
It's always amusing when Democrats, who typically hate and persecute Christians, point to the Bible on how Christians should behave. Suddenly, they become religious.
Is any part of you willing to entertain the idea that Trump is using Christians' (very sincere) faith to manipulate them one photo op after another.

Take off the blinders for a second. Does this man sound like a sincere Christian to you?

 
Is any part of you willing to entertain the idea that Trump is using Christians' (very sincere) faith to manipulate them one photo op after another.

Take off the blinders for a second. Does this man sound like a sincere Christian to you?
I do not think he is manipulating Christians since he is doing many things that Christians wanted such as Supreme Court picks, building an embassy in Jerusalem, and because he is not anti-Christian. He could very well be a cultural Christian.

His relationship with God is unclear as he does not go into specific details. He definitely wants the evangelical vote so there is some pandering, but I do not think he is manipulating in the sense that he believes Christians are dumb and pretends he likes them just to get votes. He does not seem too religious, and does not seem like a sincere Christian like Pence. Pence probably starts his day reading the Bible/devotional, and ends the night with a prayer. I do believe that some of Trump's behavior is contrary to Christian teaching, however goody two shoes Republicans do not win elections, so we have to give and take.

I've noticed in Pence's recent rally that he is learning from Trump, such as saying "C'mon Joe" somewhat making fun of Biden's mental state. This is contrary to Christian teaching as well, regardless Pence is a sincere Christian.
 
It's always amusing when Democrats, who typically hate and persecute Christians, point to the Bible on how Christians should behave. Suddenly, they become religious.
That's not actually what they are doing when the cite the Bible. They are exposing the hypocrisy of Christians supporting the guy that Jesus (who I don't believe was the son of god) very clearly would not like. This is not based on faith, but rather the actual quotes from the text itself. Seriously, even the bible makes a mockery of Donald Trump. No objective observer, Christian or not, could honestly use the text to justify that he pushes Christianity forward in a positive way. Unless the bible is just a tool to shut down conversations.

I can respect people of faith. Honestly, I view it as a placebo to get by in life. I definitely have my own mental quirks that get me by. Some people who have been through a lot need coping mechanisms. I don't look down on, for example, the drug addict that needs faith or the veteran that needs faith.

But it's a little ridiculous when the bible gets quoted as justification for supporting a piece of legislation. Take abortion for example. Any argument concerning this topic should be able to operate under the assumption that the Bible may be fictional, even if one believes that it isn't.
 
What is a "freebie"? Disability pay when your life gets wrecked to no fault of your own? Medicaid to afford healthcare bills? Food stamps to... eat bread and crackers, with the occasional time where you treat yourself to frozen noodles?

Republicans love freebies. It's called a tax cut, where almost all benefits go to a few greedy people, including Lord Savior Donald J. Trump.
No one is arguing that disabled people should not have food/housing/medical provided, as they are unable to work. The disagreement regards who we consider disabled, and I believe it is the job of the SSA to distinguish between those who cannot work and those who don't want to work. People who can work but are taking disability are taking away funds from those truly in need. I have a hard time believing that the SSA denies people truly in need; most of the people working in government are liberal after all so I would think they are extra lenient on health issues.

When I speak of freebies, I'm speaking of items outside the scope of food/housing/medical. I would consider free tuition/student loan repayment/free childcare, etc. as freebies. If a healthy person is taking benefits when he could work, I would consider that freebie as well. Many people during the pandemic refused to go to work because they were getting higher benefits. Restaurants could not get staff to return.
On the other hand, if they accidentally give millions in tax breaks to ultra-wealthy, there's a 100% chance that they won't miss it.
I paid more taxes than Trump did in 2017.
If Trump did not make any income in 2017, do you think he should pay income taxes? Trump has said multiple times that he pays millions of dollars in taxes (whatever taxes they are, property, etc.) so I'll take his word for it.

Giving tax breaks to ultra-wealthy is part of trickle down economy. Consider for a moment that Amazon's income is taxed at a 95% rate, do you think Jeff Bezos can afford to hire all his 900,000 Amazon employees? I'm using a really high tax rate to make a point, that high tax rates on corporations result in fewer jobs. Or, do you think Bezos' personal salary should be capped at a certain amount? This too will have an adverse impact as there will be less incentive to start companies.
 
No one is arguing that disabled people should not have food/housing/medical provided, as they are unable to work. The disagreement regards who we consider disabled, and I believe it is the job of the SSA to distinguish between those who cannot work and those who don't want to work. People who can work but are taking disability are taking away funds from those truly in need. I have a hard time believing that the SSA denies people truly in need; most of the people working in government are liberal after all so I would think they are extra lenient on health issues.

When I speak of freebies, I'm speaking of items outside the scope of food/housing/medical. I would consider free tuition/student loan repayment/free childcare, etc. as freebies. If a healthy person is taking benefits when he could work, I would consider that freebie as well. Many people during the pandemic refused to go to work because they were getting higher benefits. Restaurants could not get staff to return.
I realize you weren't outright saying that the disabled should suffer. My main point is that there are so many diseases that are difficult to prove (a surprising number). I mentioned my disease above, but here's some more information:
  • Fibromyalgia: This debilitating problem affects roughly 4 million adults. It is diagnosed on the basis of other tests not ruling in other diseases such as autoimmune diseases. Many of these people probably have autoimmune diseases, but can't prove it, which leads me to my next point:
  • Autoimmune diseases (to name a few):
Multiple Sclerosis: MS Patients Seem to Present Earlier Symptoms of Disease Before Diagnosis
Patients with multiple sclerosis (MS) may be developing the disease for up to five years before the first clinical diagnosis is made, a study has found.
Lupus: (According to lupus.org)
On average, it takes nearly six years for people with lupus to be diagnosed, from the time they first notice their lupus symptoms.
Sjögren's Syndrome: Sjögren's Syndrome Diagnosis
On average, it takes three years from the time symptoms are noticed to reach a Sjögren's syndrome diagnosis.
There are many, many other diseases like this, but I am not associated with them so I will defer. I can tell you, just from browsing through forums and support groups, there are many people who get denied disability.

I'm not sure if you are aware of how broken medicine is. One of the reasons why it takes so long to get diagnosed is because it often takes a while to find a doctor to believe people. It took me seeing around 30+ doctors until I found one that cared. Then, once you find the right doctor, the actual science is full of unknowns. The blood tests are highly incomplete. For autoimmune inner ear disease, in particular, the one blood test (HSP-70) is so inaccurate that it isn't even used clinically.

I realize that in a perfect world, you want sick and disabled people to be taken care of. What I'm telling you is that in reality, there's a lot of hoops -- benefit of the doubt is important. With that benefit of the doubt comes times where, yes, an occasional person will abuse the system.

Clearly, tax cuts for the rich have a similar effect, if not more of an effect. Do you really think "trickle down economics," which was basically debunked, creates a perfect system where money is transferred to the middle class? Of course not. Yet Republicans still spew this nonsense and convince their constituents that it makes sense.
 
No one is arguing that disabled people should not have food/housing/medical provided, as they are unable to work. The disagreement regards who we consider disabled, and I believe it is the job of the SSA to distinguish between those who cannot work and those who don't want to work. People who can work but are taking disability are taking away funds from those truly in need. I have a hard time believing that the SSA denies people truly in need; most of the people working in government are liberal after all so I would think they are extra lenient on health issues.

When I speak of freebies, I'm speaking of items outside the scope of food/housing/medical. I would consider free tuition/student loan repayment/free childcare, etc. as freebies. If a healthy person is taking benefits when he could work, I would consider that freebie as well. Many people during the pandemic refused to go to work because they were getting higher benefits. Restaurants could not get staff to return.

If Trump did not make any income in 2017, do you think he should pay income taxes? Trump has said multiple times that he pays millions of dollars in taxes (whatever taxes they are, property, etc.) so I'll take his word for it.

Giving tax breaks to ultra-wealthy is part of trickle down economy. Consider for a moment that Amazon's income is taxed at a 95% rate, do you think Jeff Bezos can afford to hire all his 900,000 Amazon employees? I'm using a really high tax rate to make a point, that high tax rates on corporations result in fewer jobs. Or, do you think Bezos' personal salary should be capped at a certain amount? This too will have an adverse impact as there will be less incentive to start companies.
A lot of people that are getting those freebies have jobs though. And food/housing/medical are most of the safety net. Medicaid for example is by far the largest welfare program.
 
I love your guyses fun banter here, this is how I am with my Republican uncle.
Me and my (even more left than me) friend went to the polls together and stood behind a Trump voting couple for 3 hours while we waited. We avoided politics for the first hour and then they let it slip who they were voting for.

Up to that point, we talked about everything non politics: hypothetical bizarro world Disney ride design, places we had been, how the area has changed over the years, why everyone picks the same poems when asked what their favorite poems are etc etc. and then just decided to keep talking afterward with that kinda stuff to avoid animosity.

We even joked about making a pact and just leaving to save time since we were cancelling each other's vote anyway.

My hearing issues became obvious at times and they were both empathetic when I explained.

Anyway, by the end we both wished for a different, less polarizing time.

I didn't get to find out why they were voting for Trump and they didn't hear my position because we all elected not to do that while a 3 hour wait loomed but that would be the best environment to probably have productive conversations.
 
Nice try at changing the subject and evasion.

Businesses are laying people off, the covid hoax and shutdown caused many businesses to go broke and the economy has been up and down until the lockdown/shutdown impacted businesses. The looting and destruction of businesses by left wing rioters didn't help either. Trump isn't doing anything differently than a Biden administration would except Biden's shutdown and economic mess would likely be more aggressive thus, worse.
We cannot speculate about what other would have done, because it is Trump's responsibility to run the country right now, while he is still in office, and his is doing a pretty bad job.

I am sure the 210.000 people who have lost their lives to COVID-19 this year, and their families, and not happy with the Trump administration and do not support him anymore.
 

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