2020 US Presidential Election

[PeteJ]

Ah interesting, is it a rural area? A population density map implies that. Nice to hear people there obey mask mandates nonetheless.

I think most cities have mask mandates that are followed by 99% of the population who live there.

I watched some YouTube videos today in which police in the UK harassed (imo) people for being out and about in parks or just walking around. In Belgium, two young police asked a woman to move off some stairs. She was alone, outside, reading. They're more strict in various other places. In some places in the USA, they want you to wear masks outside. In Victoria, Southern Australia, they arrest you if you are outside without a mask. They are strict in France, too.

I think most countries have strict mandates and I suspect 99% of the population obeys the mandates. The question is, how strict do you think it should be and what should be done if you don't wear a mask? How far should it go or to what extent? What should the penalties be and how much power and authority should police have to enforce it? What are people's rights if they disagree? Do they have any rights at all?

I won't insult your answer. I am the evil one here who is the only one insulting people. The cold one. I just thought these moral and ethical questions were interesting. Or maybe they're not. I dunno.

 

[Zugzug]

Trump Threatens Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf: I'll Withhold Federal Aid Because You Didn't Help My Campaign

How can anyone not blame Trump for the division in America? He is so clearly not trying to be the president to all Americans, but only the ones that worship him.

President Donald Trump escalated his attacks on Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf on Monday, threatening to not come to the state's aid as the deadly COVID-19 pandemic continues to plague it. "So Tom Wolf, next time give us a little notice, governor," Trump said Monday at the Allentown rally appearance, claiming "your governor made it almost impossible for us to find any site" for the event. "And I'll remember it, Tom. I'm going to remember it, Tom. 'Hello, Mr. President, this is Gov. Wolf, I need help, I need help.' You know what? These people are bad."

 

[Lilah]

The deal with fracking is Biden is unwilling to confront the American people on their unwillingness to accept the necessity of moving beyond fossil fuels.

I know it sounds condescending but the public has proven to be wholly incapable of a) accepting the reality of climate change and more importantly b) accepting the need to change and make sacrifices.

Yes, it does sound condescending (but we already know that the Left thinks most people are dumb and cannot think for themselves). Liberals do not like oil, natural gas, or nuclear power. Other forms of power are not reliable. Would you be willing to take a flight across the ocean on a plane that is powered by solar power or wind power? Oil/gas will keep the world running probably at least for the foreseeable future. Biden was so dumb to make that comment during the debate.

 

[PeteJ]

@Zugzug, sorry to bother you but you posted about being on disability or applying? I am wondering how people with tinnitus get on disability and I think many here are in the USA. I suspect it's a bit different in the US compared to Canada.

I believe you, Contrast and Greg are on disability or have been and the Trump administration has not been kind or accommodating to you and those on disability. Or trying to get on it. I totally emphasize and understand. It's hell trying in Canada too. Our current government is Liberal and so they are supposed to be compassionate, right?

The Provincial isn't but I don't like them either even not considering healthcare and disability assistance. I am pretty stressed and anxious. Sorry to divert and go on a tangent.

 

[GlennS]

Trump Threatens Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf: I'll Withhold Federal Aid Because You Didn't Help My Campaign

How can anyone not blame Trump for the division in America? He is so clearly not trying to be the president to all Americans, but only the ones that worship him.

How? By being a Trump supporter, that's how. Party affiliation is all that matters, not morality, not ethics, not principle, not a united states. You're either with them or against them.

 

[Born To Slay]

I think most cities have mask mandates that are followed by 99% of the population who live there.

I watched some YouTube videos today in which police in the UK harassed (imo) people for being out and about in parks or just walking around. In Belgium, two young police asked a woman to move off some stairs. She was alone, outside, reading. They're more strict in various other places. In some places in the USA, they want you to wear masks outside. In Victoria, Southern Australia, they arrest you if you are outside without a mask. They are strict in France, too.

I think most countries have strict mandates and I suspect 99% of the population obeys the mandates. The question is, how strict do you think it should be and what should be done if you don't wear a mask? How far should it go or to what extent? What should the penalties be and how much power and authority should police have to enforce it? What are people's rights if they disagree? Do they have any rights at all?

I won't insult your answer. I am the evil one here who is the only one insulting people. The cold one. I just thought these moral and ethical questions were interesting. Or maybe they're not. I dunno.

I'd like the restrictions to be fairly strict. If you are outside your home or car and are anywhere you could come in contact with people, you should be wearing a mask. When I go for walks my neighborhood for instance I always wear a mask.

That said, I don't want to see anyone arrested for not wearing a mask. That's just patently ridiculous. It also goes against progressive values. Progressives have pushed for prisoners to be released due to the pandemic and push for criminal justice reform and especially are opposed to jailing non violent offenders. It would be hypocritical to jail people for not wearing masks and wouldn't be good public policy either. In my opinion, I'd like to see police officers do the same thing they do when they pull you over for speeding, talk to you, assess the situation and if necessary give someone a ticket. Not for a crazy amount, maybe 10 dollars and give them a mask if they want one. Now if they refuse to pay the ticket, whatever happens to you for not paying a ticket, should happen to you for this.

For people that disagree, I don't see why this is a big deal. Just because you disagree with the law doesn't give you the right to break it. Other laws aren't interpreted that way, so I don't see why a mask law would. If you don't like the law, lobby to change it. Or move. Same thing you do for other laws you don't like.

Obviously this is all just my opinion but I do think that if we did this, you'd see a safer economic reopening.

 

[Zugzug]

I'd like the restrictions to be fairly strict. If you are outside your home or car and are anywhere you could come in contact with people, you should be wearing a mask. When I go for walks my neighborhood for instance I always wear a mask.

That said, I don't want to see anyone arrested for not wearing a mask. That's just patently ridiculous. It also goes against progressive values. Progressives have pushed for prisoners to be released due to the pandemic and push for criminal justice reform and especially are opposed to jailing non violent offenders. It would be hypocritical to jail people for not wearing masks and wouldn't be good public policy either. In my opinion, I'd like to see police officers do the same thing they do when they pull you over for speeding, talk to you, assess the situation and if necessary give someone a ticket. Not for a crazy amount, maybe 10 dollars and give them a mask if they want one. Now if they refuse to pay the ticket, whatever happens to you for not paying a ticket, should happen to you for this.

For people that disagree, I don't see why this is a big deal. Just because you disagree with the law doesn't give you the right to break it. Other laws aren't interpreted that way, so I don't see why a mask law would. If you don't like the law, lobby to change it. Or move. Same thing you do for other laws you don't like.

Obviously this is all just my opinion but I do think that if we did this, you'd see a safer economic reopening.

The problem would be the fear of a slippery slope. I don't know if we need a "law," we just need our leaders to stress common sense.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

My wife works for a large school district - over 100 schools and many are very large. She works from home, but she needs to go to the district office for a few hours each day for access to student and employees files. Part of her responsibilities is wellness and safety, students with special needs such as tinnitus. She double masks and when she wants a drink of bottled water she goes outside.

We also have a neighbor with several children and they always have company. Sometimes 10 people are at their home. None of them ever wear a mask. My wife mentioned to them that with visitors, they should be wearing masks. They know that I have tinnitus and if you make any comment that they don't like, then they light a very loud firecracker.

 

[Ken219]

Let's say the Trump movement wanted to "own the libs", and Trump gave some message along the lines of proving to the liberals that, they too, can be the party of science.

President is not king of the 50 States! Each State has its own National Guard. The making of Federal law involves three branches of the Government, then it has to pass the Supreme Court if challenged.

 

[Born To Slay]

The problem would be the fear of a slippery slope. I don't know if we need a "law," we just need our leaders to stress common sense.

Why? We legislate common sense all the time. Wearing a seatbelt is the law.

 

[GlennS]

That said, I don't want to see anyone arrested for not wearing a mask.

What happens if you cry fire in a crowded theater?

The problem is there is too much of a squiggly line between not wearing a mask and people dying, so the accountability is difficult to establish, but it is definitely there, and given how politicized it has become, without enforcement, mandates are useless. People will defy those orders knowing that nothing will be done.

 

[GlennS]

Federal law involves three branches of the Government, then it has to pass the Supreme Court if challenged.

Two, thanks to Trump commandeering the courts. One branch in the case of one party ruling the senate/reps.

 

[Born To Slay]

What happens if you cry fire in a crowded theater?

The problem is there is too much of a squiggly line between not wearing a mask and people dying, so the accountability is difficult to establish, but it is definitely there, and given how politicized it has become, without enforcement, mandates are useless. People will defy those orders knowing that nothing will be done.

I mean sure but prisons are COVID-19 spreaders, we don't want more people in there.

 

[Lilah]

Yes, it does sound condescending (but we already know that the Left thinks most people are dumb and cannot think for themselves). Liberals do not like oil, natural gas, or nuclear power. Other forms of power are not reliable. Would you be willing to take a flight across the ocean on a plane that is powered by solar power or wind power? Oil/gas will keep the world running probably at least for the foreseeable future. Biden was so dumb to make that comment during the debate.

Liberals don't like oil, natural gas, nuclear energy, and even hydropower. They want "clean energy" which is wind and solar (sourced from the wind and sun), both of which are inefficient and unreliable.

"Unreliable power risks lives."

https://www.txoga.org/wind-and-solar-power-are-not-reliable-to-meet-our-energy-needs/

 

[aot]

Maybe it's just me but I haven't seen a lot of coverage mentioning this, and it worries me:

The election isn't over once election day ends. The election is over once all votes are counted.

This will be more like an Election Month as opposed to Election Day. More people are voting in this election than ever before.

Here's the thing: Most Trump supporters are voting in person on election day, whilst most Biden voters are voting via mail or voting early.

Election day votes (which will be predominantly Trump) are counted first. At least how that's how I understand it.

I can totally see Trump having the most votes on Election Day, and then just declaring victory regardless of who actually won.

Thoughts?

 

[Born To Slay]

Maybe it's just me but I haven't seen a lot of coverage mentioning this, and it worries me:

The election isn't over once election day ends. The election is over once all votes are counted.

This will be more like an Election Month as opposed to Election Day. More people are voting in this election than ever before.

Here's the thing: Most Trump supporters are voting in person on election day, whilst most Biden voters are voting via mail or voting early.

Election day votes (which will be predominantly Trump) are counted first. At least how that's how I understand it.

I can totally see Trump having the most votes on Election Day, and then just declaring victory regardless of who actually won.

Thoughts?

Actually if you look at the early voting numbers, both sides are voting early. The red mirage concern hasn't really materialized. Some states, such as Texas, are actually already about to pass 2016 totals and that wouldn't be possible with just or even predominantly Democrats.

 

[PeteJ]

I'd like the restrictions to be fairly strict. If you are outside your home or car and are anywhere you could come in contact with people, you should be wearing a mask. When I go for walks my neighborhood for instance I always wear a mask.

That said, I don't want to see anyone arrested for not wearing a mask. That's just patently ridiculous. It also goes against progressive values. Progressives have pushed for prisoners to be released due to the pandemic and push for criminal justice reform and especially are opposed to jailing non violent offenders. It would be hypocritical to jail people for not wearing masks and wouldn't be good public policy either. In my opinion, I'd like to see police officers do the same thing they do when they pull you over for speeding, talk to you, assess the situation and if necessary give someone a ticket. Not for a crazy amount, maybe 10 dollars and give them a mask if they want one. Now if they refuse to pay the ticket, whatever happens to you for not paying a ticket, should happen to you for this.

For people that disagree, I don't see why this is a big deal. Just because you disagree with the law doesn't give you the right to break it. Other laws aren't interpreted that way, so I don't see why a mask law would. If you don't like the law, lobby to change it. Or move. Same thing you do for other laws you don't like.

Obviously this is all just my opinion but I do think that if we did this, you'd see a safer economic reopening.

Interesting. You support unjust laws? So punish people with a tax grab? Is it staying at $10 or is the fine flexible?
Who is enforcing it and when/where? Inside? Outside? Both?

If masks protect you, why do you have to punish people who don't wear masks?

How can you lobby something else if 90% support strict covid measures? People who challenge or oppose it don't have rights.

If you disagree, you can move? Cool. Are you paying for it? Maybe the government will be generous and pay for it? Where can you move to?

 

[Zugzug]

Maybe it's just me but I haven't seen a lot of coverage mentioning this, and it worries me:

The election isn't over once election day ends. The election is over once all votes are counted.

This will be more like an Election Month as opposed to Election Day. More people are voting in this election than ever before.

Here's the thing: Most Trump supporters are voting in person on election day, whilst most Biden voters are voting via mail or voting early.

Election day votes (which will be predominantly Trump) are counted first. At least how that's how I understand it.

I can totally see Trump having the most votes on Election Day, and then just declaring victory regardless of who actually won.

Thoughts?

I agree that it's far scarier to think about Trump having the lead and then having it "taken from him," even though he never really had the lead. There will be all this talk in Trump circles about what fraud could have happened. In reality, mail-in voters are very clearly going to lean Democrat.

 

[Born To Slay]

Interesting. You support unjust laws? So punish people with a tax grab? Is it staying at $10 or is the fine flexible?
Who is enforcing it and when/where? Inside? Outside? Both?

If masks protect you, why do you have to punish people who don't wear masks?

How can you lobby something else if 90% support strict covid measures? People who challenge or oppose it don't have rights.

If you disagree, you can move? Cool. Are you paying for it? Maybe the government will be generous and pay for it? Where can you move to?

I don't think it's an unjust law. It's not anymore unjust then mandating people wear seatbelts.

The police would enforce it, like they enforce all other laws. Luckily we already have cops for this.

I would want the fee to stay where it is and low.

If 90% of people honk everyone should wear a mask, well that's what's going to happen. If 90% of Americans want everyone to wear clothes in public, are nudists discriminated against because they can't go naked to the store?

 

[Juan]

Trump Threatens Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf: I'll Withhold Federal Aid Because You Didn't Help My Campaign

How can anyone not blame Trump for the division in America? He is so clearly not trying to be the president to all Americans, but only the ones that worship him.

You are right. Trump has been the most divisive president in the history of the US, making people fight against each other. Maybe that's his tactic and this way Trump can get away with not paying taxes and continue hiding his tax statements from the public (he is the only president that has done this).

 

[PeteJ]

I don't think it's an unjust law. It's not anymore unjust then mandating people wear seatbelts.

The police would enforce it, like they enforce all other laws. Luckily we already have cops for this.

I would want the fee to stay where it is and low.

If 90% of people honk everyone should wear a mask, well that's what's going to happen. If 90% of Americans want everyone to wear clothes in public, are nudists discriminated against because they can't go naked to the store?

It's nothing like seatbelts. Masks can impede your breathing, they are not needed and even the health agencies have stated at times, that they don't help. Health agencies have flip flopped on this so it is reasonable to assert they don't even know or are lying when they say it helps.

There's no confusion about seatbelts. You only need it in a car whereas your insane request is to wear masks everywhere. There's a definite risk for being physically injured if not wearing a seatbelt and for covid, it's only based on being brainwashed. It's apples and oranges.

 

[PeteJ]

COVID-19 Hoax and Fraud:

In June Study CDC Scientists Make 2 COVID Admissions that Destroy Official Narrative

PCR Inventor: "It doesn't tell you that you are sick"

 

[FGG]

I don't think it's an unjust law. It's not anymore unjust then mandating people wear seatbelts.

The police would enforce it, like they enforce all other laws. Luckily we already have cops for this.

I would want the fee to stay where it is and low.

If 90% of people honk everyone should wear a mask, well that's what's going to happen. If 90% of Americans want everyone to wear clothes in public, are nudists discriminated against because they can't go naked to the store?

I think it's a little different than seatbelts. Seatbelts only protect you. It's more like not drunk driving where you are protecting yourself and other people.

Masks are much more effective when both people are wearing them (as @Christiaan's comic greatly illustrated). Surgeons wear masks primarily to protect you, not the other way around.

If I see someone not wearing a seatbelt, I think they are dumb but at least they don't selfishly put others in danger.

I used to live in Chicago, there are no motorcycle helmet laws there but the vast majority of people wore them anyway because they were educated about the risks. You don't need laws when you have preventative health education.

 

[Juan]

It's nothing like seatbelts. Masks can impede your breathing, they are not needed and even the health agencies have stated at times, that they don't help. Health agencies have flip flopped on this so it is reasonable to assert they don't even know or are lying when they say it helps.

There's no confusion about seatbelts. You only need it in a car whereas your insane request is to wear masks everywhere. There's a definite risk for being physically injured if not wearing a seatbelt and for covid, it's only based on being brainwashed. It's apples and oranges.

If masks "impeded breathing" then surgeons would not use them, don't you think so?

 

[Luman]

It would be far cheaper, more efficient, and less deadly to simply have the people who are at risk of dying, stay home, than sending our nation into a depression, which Biden and his vp are planning to do if they get elected.

You are right. Trump has been the most divisive president in the history of the US, making people fight against each other. Maybe that's his tactic and this way Trump can get away with not paying taxes and continue hiding his tax statements from the public (he is the only president that has done this).

Did you ever hear of a man named Abraham Lincoln? Three quarters of a million American men died during his administration, fighting each other. Think about the millions of widows and orphans, and tell me that Trump is the most divisive president in history.

 

[Born To Slay]

I think it's a little different than seatbelts. Seatbelts only protect you. It's more like not drunk driving where you are protecting yourself and other people.

Masks are much more effective when both people are wearing them (as @Christiaan's comic greatly illustrated). Surgeons wear masks primarily to protect you, not the other way around.

If I see someone not wearing a seatbelt, I think they are dumb but at least they don't selfishly put others in danger.

I used to live in Chicago, there are no motorcycle helmet laws there but the vast majority of people wore them anyway because they were educated about the risks. You don't need laws when you have preventative health education.

I would think that that would make it even more necessary to have it be a law then seatbelts, if they protect both you and others as opposed to just you. And that's fair about Chicago but at this point half of the country wants to not wear masks for political reasons, so that education is gonna be seen as brainwash.

It's nothing like seatbelts. Masks can impede your breathing, they are not needed and even the health agencies have stated at times, that they don't help. Health agencies have flip flopped on this so it is reasonable to assert they don't even know or are lying when they say it helps.

There's no confusion about seatbelts. You only need it in a car whereas your insane request is to wear masks everywhere. There's a definite risk for being physically injured if not wearing a seatbelt and for covid, it's only based on being brainwashed. It's apples and oranges.

Health agencies have flip flopped partially as they got new information and partially, unfortunately in a dishonest effort to keep masks available for front line workers. Regardless though, most health agencies now agree that you need a mask. If you have a breathing condition that makes wearing a mask dangerous to you, you should be able to go get a doctor's note.

 

[Born To Slay]

It would be far cheaper, more efficient, and less deadly to simply have the people who are at risk of dying, stay home, than sending our nation into a depression, which Biden and his vp are planning to do if they get elected.


Did you ever hear of a man named Abraham Lincoln? Three quarters of a million American men died during his administration, fighting each other. Think about the millions of widows and orphans, and tell me that Trump is the most divisive president in history.

Ya know, it's really only helping Biden that people can only make a case against him by dramatically misrepresenting his positions on issues. Joe Biden did not say he'd shutdown the country, he said he'd listen to the scientists and if they seriously recommend it, he would have to consider it but he even said during the debate he doesn't think it's necessary.

I'd love to see what would happen if Trump and others kept arguing against Biden's actual policies and not those of the so called far left or those he just made up. He'd have nothing.

 

[PeteJ]

If masks "impeded breathing" then surgeons would not use them, don't you think so?

You would think so but they wear them only occasionally. Unless you think they are doing delicate and complicated surgeries 24/7?

 

[Juan]

You would think so but they wear them only occasionally. Unless you think they are doing delicate and complicated surgeries 24/7?

Masks are designed so that users can breathe through them. It's simple as that.

 

[Juan]

It would be far cheaper, more efficient, and less deadly to simply have the people who are at risk of dying, stay home, than sending our nation into a depression, which Biden and his vp are planning to do if they get elected.

Did you ever hear of a man named Abraham Lincoln? Three quarters of a million American men died during his administration, fighting each other. Think about the millions of widows and orphans, and tell me that Trump is the most divisive president in history.

I think it is Trump who has screwed up the US economy with his lack of leadership during the pandemic. The guy is just incompetent.