2020 US Presidential Election

[PeteJ]

Biden is a hawk also. All of our Presidents are war mongerers. It's very frustrating.

Trump had kept us involved in every country that we started in. He did the same thing Obama did, he'd take some troops away and out some back. His foreign policy is Obama 2.0.

They all are? Wait a minute. Now, I am confusilzeddddd... ummmmmm...

But, you said... not just you but other Libs... that there is a difference... you all mocked me... when I said that they are the same and you have no choice.

You hypocrites have no bounds. It's unbelievable... I could write a song but it's already been done.

 

[PeteJ]

I guess you can put Kamala Harris's ringtone on your phone. Why do I think @Luman will not be doing so? I won't be either for that matter, at least I hope not.

The Evil Witch who could be President?

Have fun with that.

 

[Luman]

Nobody knows what Biden will or won't do. We all have to wait and see.

 

[Emgee]

What game? You liberals think that the parties are different. Nothing is rigged, you say.

Always the hypocrites, you people.

It's become a joke.

1. The game of political theater.

2. I'm neither team.

3. I clearly said the two major parties are not that different from each other.

 

[Born To Slay]

I guess I don't know enough about your American system but I was under the impression that the Electoral College benefited the Republicans so they want the Popular Vote?

But, then Biden, who had small crowds show up throughout his campaign smashed records including the Electoral College. Lol.

Why do they want to change it?!? /s

Most of them have wanted to change it since 2000 when Gore won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College. The Electoral College has given the GOP wins in two elections this century where they won the votes from fewer people.

And Biden didn't shatter any Electoral College records, he won the same amount Trump did in 2016 ironically enough.

 

[Born To Slay]

What game? You liberals think that the parties are different. Nothing is rigged, you say.

Always the hypocrites, you people.

It's become a joke.

Lol, because liberals are the only ones who think he parties are different.

What about the all conservatives who think Joe Biden's election is the end of America? Don't they think the parties are different?

 

[Juan]

The American electorate on the whole is poorly educated, does not really understand our political system's basic inputs and outputs, and is incredibly easy to sway with propaganda. This is why incumbent presidents generally get blamed for long lists of things which had nothing to do with them, and were a result of the previous 3-4 administrations.

Here in Spain it is becoming more frequent for the new government to sort of present the state of public accounts and affairs when they assume office. So the new President would say "you know what, in reality there is more public debt than the previous government reported" or "the pensions are doing worse than we thought". Basically they give a description of the whole economic picture, after auditing.

Why isn't that done in the US too? Why would a new administration put the problems created by others under the rug?

 

[Born To Slay]

They all are? Wait a minute. Now, I am confusilzeddddd... ummmmmm...

But, you said... not just you but other Libs... that there is a difference... you all mocked me... when I said that they are the same and you have no choice.

You hypocrites have no bounds. It's unbelievable... I could write a song but it's already been done.

There are differences and similarities between the two parties. Why is the world black and white in your opinion? It's like in your view, the parties either agree on everything or nothing. Why can't they agree on 50-60% ? That's probably what I'd put it at.

 

[aot]

OK but what was the reason for it? Was the guy just criminally insane, or a foreign terrorist with an agenda?

In 2019, Patrick Crusius walked into a Walmart with an AK-47, and shot 36 people. Half of them lived, the other half of them died.

A White Nationalist Manifesto published on the website 8chan is believed by police to have been written by Patrick Crusius. Dude had a raging hatred for hispanics.

This is a clear case of domestic terrorism. Even the FBI says so.

And what about the plan to kidnap that mayor from Chicago? Or the bombs sent to those critical of Trump such as Robert De Niro? Aren't those also terrorism?

To illustrate my point, here's a picture that the Walmart shooter liked on social media.

 

[FGG]

In 2019, Patrick Crusius walked into a Walmart with an AK-47, and shot 36 people. Half of them lived, the other half of them died.

A White Nationalist Manifesto published on the website 8chan is believed by police to have been written by Patrick Crusius. Dude had a raging hatred for hispanics.

This is a clear case of domestic terrorism. Even the FBI says so.

And what about the plan to kidnap that mayor from Chicago? Or the bombs sent to those critical of Trump such as Robert De Niro? Aren't those also terrorism?

To illustrate my point, here's a picture that the Walmart shooter liked on social media.

View attachment 42042

I knew about the Michigan plot, was there also a plot against Mayor Lightfoot?

Is your Robert De Niro reference the same pipe bomber from Florida who said Trump was like a dad to him and he was going to kill Pelosi? I watched a mini documentary on him. He liked his liberal boss and she was the only liberal he thought shouldn't be outright killed.

Don't forget Earl Holt who helped radicalize Dylan Roof who is a very regular Republican donor and conservative activist.

And right now there are conservative terrorists threatening the lives of teenage temp workers who helped count ballots. They are stalking and leaving nooses at doorsteps.

Not to mention KKK and neo nazi leaders endorsing Trump.

Conservatives can't have it both ways, they can't say their terrorists don't represent them but a single looter represents everything that is wrong with Democrats.

 

[linearb]

Why isn't that done in the US too? Why would a new administration put the problems created by others under the rug?

It's not that it's a deliberate thing, per se. If you look at the boom bust cycle of the US economy, it's not actually especially related to who is in office, or any particular fiscal policy, and to the extent these things impact it, the effects are felt years later in many cases:

So, like I said -- our electorate on the whole is not especially well educated. If you receive a typical US 12th grade education, you get some mix of science and propagandas of one kind or another, and then what you learn in higher education, if you even go on to pursue that, is sort of dependent on what you're trying to learn and the degree to which you're trying to challenge your existing biases.

The typical voter has a pretty good grasp on how happy they feel right now, how their finances compare to a year or so ago, and what their long term savings balance is (often a two or three digit number, unfortunately). They don't have much of a grasp on specifically what economic policies are responsible for them having done "better" or "worse" in a particular year.

The economy, like the power grid, is so vastly complex and full of undocumented feedback loops, that the people who study it professionally full time often lack consensus about how particular aspects of it operate. Given that reality, it's no wonder that the kind of financial data average citizens use to base their votes on, is detached from reality.

"My income and long-term savings value has generally [increased / decreased] over the last [ 2 / 4 ] years under the auspices of [ dominant political party ]" is a very easy sentence that anyone with even a rudimentary grasp on their finances can fill in the blanks on. Unfortunately, it leads one very easily to conclusions about the effectiveness of the fiscal policies of [ dominant political party ] which are super inaccurate, because if you want to really understand the impact of any one policy you need to have enough data to trace it through at least one full boom/bust cycle that followed it, which means that it takes a minimum of ~10-15 years to see policy changes play out.

This is obvious to policy wonks, but again, the average voter isn't a policy wonk because mostly people are forced to spend their time playing the rat race game of "how do I keep the lights on in my house this month?", and many people who should not be in that situation based purely on income, still are, because of the effect of "keeping up with the joneses" and mindless consumerism.

Note: I'm an unapologetic mindless consumer. That's why I let my partner decide how much of our cash goes into mindless consumerism vs savings I am not, personally, any smarter than the average idiot but fortunately I married someone who is.

 

[Lucifer]

Not exactly. Private insurance became Obamacare, and unless you had insurance at work, you had to buy it. People in the lower income brackets get subsidized, or get it for free. I got laid off about 15 years ago, lost my employer insurance, and bought good private insurance for years, I believe it was Empire BC/BS, and once Obamacare started, they were dissolved.

I'm not 100% sure of what Trump did, I'll have to ask somebody, as far as the choice of opting out of insurance entirely, as people in their 20's often cannot afford it, and don't really need it.

On the Obamacare plan, the cost for the two of us was 20 thousand dollars a year, and that did not included co-pays and thousands in deductibles. This is how he was able to give it away to others for free, or at very reduced cost to the government.

Our Obamacare plan made us pay for children's dental. I think that most of all Obamacare now charge for this, to those who are unfortunate enough to have to pay for themselves. We do not have children, and it is impossible for us to do so, unless we adopt them. Son this is another example of Obama's generosity, with other people's money.

Oh wow. No wonder Republicans are opposed with the ACA. Imagine being forced off your private insurance because your work isn't offering it.

 

[Lucifer]

Medicare For All is basically a system where the government pays for all Medical care in the country and everyone is on this one plan. Under Bernie's proposal from the campaign, everyone would pay an income based premium of 4% of their income above $24,000. So if you have a family earning $23,000 they pay nothing, just like those on Medicaid today. If they earn $74,000, they'd pay $2,000 dollars. If they earn $250,000, they pay $9,000 dollars.

Now granted, this isn't the only funding mechanism for Bernie's plan but it's the main new one most individuals would pay.

Under this plan, all healthcare including PCP visits, specialists, dental, eye stuff, hospital care and anything else under the sun you can think of, is covered free at the point of service.

And also about the college thing, the government wouldn't be paying out $100,000 for anyone to go to school since only public colleges would be free and they tend to be cheaper.

Thanks for clarifying about Medicare For All.

I still believe the government should be subsidising University fees though. I can't believe Americans are paying way too much for University. I know someone who came to NZ from the USA to study because even though they had to pay international fees it was way cheaper than the USA.

 

[Lucifer]

I guess I don't know enough about your American system but I was under the impression that the Electoral College benefited the Republicans so they want the Popular Vote?

But, then Biden, who had small crowds show up throughout his campaign smashed records including the Electoral College. Lol.

Why do they want to change it?!? /s

I think Democrats are the ones that mostly want to change it to the popular vote as they have a lot of Democratic supporters. California has 39.5 million people and New York has 19 million people. I know not all of them are able to vote but this gives Democrats an advantage when it comes to the popular vote.

 

[PeteJ]

Lol, because liberals are the only ones who think he parties are different.

What about the all conservatives who think Joe Biden's election is the end of America? Don't they think the parties are different?

You just said they were the same and a handful of Libs agreed. Lol!

 

[PeteJ]

1. The game of political theater.

2. I'm neither team.

3. I clearly said the two major parties are not that different from each other.

Yep and several Libs agreed with you but when you call them out on it, they suddenly do a 180.

Libs can't decide or change their tune with the wind.

 

[PeteJ]

I think Democrats are the ones that mostly want to change it to the popular vote as they have a lot of Democratic supporters. California has 39.5 million people and New York has 19 million people. I know not all of them are able to vote but this gives Democrats an advantage when it comes to the popular vote.

I know. I was just being over the top sarcastic but Libs didn't get it.

Lib Demmys don't need the Popular Vote change after all cuz Sleepy Joe won with the Electoral College just fine, right? ;-D

 

[aot]

I knew about the Michigan plot, was there also a plot against Mayor Lightfoot?

That was a mistake on my part. I was referring to the plot to kidnap Gov Whitmer.

Is your Robert De Niro reference the same pipe bomber from Florida who said Trump was like a dad to him and he was going to kill Pelosi? I watched a mini documentary on him. He liked his liberal boss and she was the only liberal he thought shouldn't be outright killed.

I'm pretty sure, yes.

I have a few conservative friends and I'm pretty sure I'm the only liberal they like.

 

[Born To Slay]

Thanks for clarifying about Medicare For All.

I still believe the government should be subsidising University fees though. I can't believe Americans are paying way too much for University. I know someone who came to NZ from the USA to study because even though they had to pay international fees it was way cheaper than the USA.

Well it's the so called far left that advocates for that.

 

[Born To Slay]

Oh wow. No wonder Republicans are opposed with the ACA. Imagine being forced off your private insurance because your work isn't offering it.

That's not because of Obamacare. That's been the case since the 40s that if you are on an employer plan, you lose your insurance when you lose ur job. And that makes sense btw, your employer is paying for your healthcare as compensation for your work. If you no longer work there, you don't get to keep your insurance anymore then you keep the salary.

That is not why the GOP is opposed to the ACA. They don't give a fuck if people have insurance. If they did, their party would have a healthcare plan. They don't.

 

[Born To Slay]

I know. I was just being over the top sarcastic but Libs didn't get it.

Lib Demmys don't need the Popular Vote change after all cuz Sleepy Joe won with the Electoral College just fine, right?

Considering every liberal here still wants to abolish the EC, I don't think you can make any hypocrisy charges on that one.

 

[Lucifer]

That's not because of Obamacare. That's been the case since the 40s that if you are on an employer plan, you lose your insurance when you lose ur job. And that makes sense btw, your employer is paying for your healthcare as compensation for your work. If you no longer work there, you don't get to keep your insurance anymore then you keep the salary.

That is not why the GOP is opposed to the ACA. They don't give a fuck if people have insurance. If they did, their party would have a healthcare plan. They don't.

Yea that's fair but didn't @Luman say that since your work isn't offering insurance then you are forced to go with Obamacare and can't go to a different private insurance provider instead?

 

[Juan]

Note: I'm an unapologetic mindless consumer. That's why I let my partner decide how much of our cash goes into mindless consumerism vs savings I am not, personally, any smarter than the average idiot but fortunately I married someone who is.

What do you (or your partner) think about the real estate bubble in the US? How is COVID-19 going to affect that? Will there be a crash or a soft landing?

Next year forbearance will be over, and what are those "investors" with 50 properties to rent in the Midwest going to do?

 

[Luman]

Yea that's fair but didn't @Luman say that since your work isn't offering insurance then you are forced to go with Obamacare and can't go to a different private insurance provider instead?

Obama promised that if you liked your health insurance, you would not have to worry because it would not be discontinued. He did the exact opposite. After I lost my job during the economic crisis, about 14 years ago, I lost my insurance from my job and went on Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield, in New York, which I paid for myself. Obama with his ACA act eliminated it. We were then forced to take Obamacare, which cost more and was sub-par. We paid about $20,000 a year for a couple, thousands in deductibles before it even kicked in, were forced to pay child dental even though we never had children, and many doctors and hospitals didn't take it.

Thanks Obama, I believe in, and voted for, you twice and you backstabbed us. We weren't asking for extra help or welfare, we only wanted to be able to buy health insurance that we preferred, using our hard-earned money. We were out of work, and not young enough to be rehired easily if at all. They take our money, in our time of need, and hand it over to lazy bums and welfare queens, in exchange for votes. According to some on this very message board, 74 million Trump voters are all uneducated, backwards suckers. They don't bother mentioning the million's of people that refuse to work, who voted for Sleepy Joe and the Ho. They won't go for job training, or take an entry level position, they'd rather get food stamps, free medical, rent paid for by welfare, cars, and most everything else for free. Some of them earn extra income by prostitution, drug dealing, other criminal activity, etc. They're all supported by those who voted for Trump.

 

[Born To Slay]

Yea that's fair but didn't @Luman say that since your work isn't offering insurance then you are forced to go with Obamacare and can't go to a different private insurance provider instead?

Obamacare is not a single insurer, to put it simply Obamacare is more like a store where people go buy health insurance than an insurer itself. The law set up a website where people can go buy health insurance. They can choose from many different plans from many different companies, some counties didn't have enough options in the beginning but most do at this point.

So when people say they're "on Obamacare," what they really mean is they're on a plan bought thru the Obamacare marketplace and the plan is up to the standards set by Obamacare. You can buy plans off the marketplace if you want to. It's not recommended but you can. They just have to comply with Obamacare's standards.

 

[Born To Slay]

Obama promised that if you liked your health insurance, you would not have to worry because it would not be discontinued. He did the exact opposite. After I lost my job during the economic crisis, about 14 years ago, I lost my insurance from my job and went on Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield, in New York, which I paid for myself. Obama with his ACA act eliminated it. We were then forced to take Obamacare, which cost more and was sub-par. We paid about $20,000 a year for a couple, thousands in deductibles before it even kicked in, were forced to pay child dental even though we never had children, and many doctors and hospitals didn't take it.

Thanks Obama, I believe in, and voted for, you twice and you backstabbed us. We weren't asking for extra help or welfare, we only wanted to be able to buy health insurance that we preferred, using our hard-earned money. We were out of work, and not young enough to be rehired easily if at all. They take our money, in our time of need, and hand it over to lazy bums and welfare queens, in exchange for votes. According to some on this very message board, 74 million Trump voters are all uneducated, backwards suckers. They don't bother mentioning the million's of people that refuse to work, who voted for Sleepy Joe and the Ho. They won't go for job training, or take an entry level position, they'd rather get food stamps, free medical, rent paid for by welfare, cars, and most everything else for free. Some of them earn extra income by prostitution, drug dealing, other criminal activity, etc. They're all supported by those who voted for Trump.

This is such an obscene misrepresentation of events here.

One, if your plan got canceled by the ACA, that means it didn't live up to ACA standards and regulations. Now we'll never know what your plan covered unless you'd like to publish it here but to readers reading, it should be noted that that's the case.

Two, two people should not be paying $20,000 a year in premiums for a high deductible plan. Anyone who knows their stuff knows that's a bad deal. Don't believe me? I encourage any reader to Google the cost of ACA plans in NYC. For $20,000 you should be on a platinum plan with little or no deductible. I'm sorry you got a bad deal but that's not representative whatsoever of the ACA marketplace.

Three, everyone with an ACA compliment plan, rich or poor, had to pay for child dental. That's an essential benefit according to the ACA. That is not welfare, it's universal.

No one took your money for welfare in the ACA. Period. Unless you were wealthy enough to pay the taxes in the ACA but if you are then you really shouldn't be complaining.

And finally, wow. The counties that voted for Biden make up 70% of GDP. Biden States give more to the federal government while most Trump States take more. Biden areas support Trump's unproductive, leeching areas, not the other way around.

All this said, I hope you are happy on Medicare (aka government insurance) and hope I didn't come across harshly here.

Also to anyone who is interested to know about the people who've been slammed so negatively as users of the social safety net, you should be aware of how poor someone has to be to be eligible for welfare.

To be on SNAP you have net under the poverty line.

To be eligible for Medicaid, you have to be under 133% of the poverty line.

For TANF it depends on the state but in no state is it more than 60% of the FPL.

The poverty line is $12,760 for a single person. You are not living well at that point.

These are the people who are accused of mooching off American society.

 

[Luman]

Obamacare is not a single insurer, to put it simply Obamacare is more like a store where people go buy health insurance than an insurer itself. The law set up a website where people can go buy health insurance. They can choose from many different plans from many different companies, some counties didn't have enough options in the beginning but most do at this point.

So when people say they're "on Obamacare," what they really mean is they're on a plan bought thru the Obamacare marketplace and the plan is up to the standards set by Obamacare. You can buy plans off the marketplace if you want to. It's not recommended but you can. They just have to comply with Obamacare's standards.

Am I right or wrong, that you have never been on an Obamacare plan, and personally experienced the high prices and lack of quality that Obamacare is famous for among the percentage of people that pay full price for it? I would be extremely surprised if you have been on an Obamacare plan.

 

[FGG]

@Lucifer, Bernie Sanders is who the right wing in the US cite as the ultimate "far left" boogeyman.

Watch his speeches, look at the legislation he helps write and read his Twitter feed and see if he seems as he is portrayed by the right.

His most recent Tweet:

 

[Born To Slay]

Am I right or wrong, that you have never been on an Obamacare plan, and personally experienced the high prices and lack of quality that Obamacare is famous for among the percentage of people that pay full price for it? I would be extremely surprised if you have been on an Obamacare plan.

Lol, it's famous for bad quality and prices? Is that why its public approval is high and the Republicans couldn't kill it?

And the plan quality is the same whether you have a subsidy to help you pay for it or not. That's just common sense.

 

[just1morething]