2020 US Presidential Election

Here is a question to the Biden supporters.

If you knew that the election was won by fraud, would you even care? Would you press for Trump to take his rightful place? I'm going to bet no.
 
Good article here by Ben Stein.

"I feel scared about Mr. Biden. Really scared. We elected a man we don't even know. He has no platform. No program. We elected him just to be rid of Mr. Trump.

But Mr. Trump was a great president. He was great for the economy, great for not starting any wars. Great for winding down the wars we are in.

He was great for Israel and actually set the Mideast on the path to peace. And now he apparently is being kicked out for no good reason I can understand, just because the all-powerful media went to war with him.

I feel as if we are being led into a dark forest and then into a cave and we don't know what's in that cave."

Dark Days That Leave Me With Foreboding | Newsmax.com

The dark winter is coming.
 
They've done 69 court cases, how much more can you look into something?
Those early morning vote spikes seem very strange. The ratio of Biden to Trump votes seems ridiculous in that short time span. No wonder so many Republican Senators want to contest the electoral votes. They need to at least do an audit in the swing states. Listen to what Senators Johnson and Paul have to say, so that the people of both parties can know if there was any significant fraud or not, and get it settled for future elections if nothing else.
 
Here is a question to the Biden supporters.

If you knew that the election was won by fraud, would you even care? Would you press for Trump to take his rightful place? I'm going to bet no.
When the courts dismissed the lawsuits of voter fraud, how long did it take for the courts to dismiss the lawsuits after they were submitted? To prove that there was voter fraud, don't they have to investigate it for weeks and months?

Why did they dismiss the lawsuits so quick? It should be taking weeks and months to investigate to find out if there was voter fraud.
 
Good article here by Ben Stein.

"I feel scared about Mr. Biden. Really scared. We elected a man we don't even know. He has no platform. No program. We elected him just to be rid of Mr. Trump.

But Mr. Trump was a great president. He was great for the economy, great for not starting any wars. Great for winding down the wars we are in.

He was great for Israel and actually set the Mideast on the path to peace. And now he apparently is being kicked out for no good reason I can understand, just because the all-powerful media went to war with him.

I feel as if we are being led into a dark forest and then into a cave and we don't know what's in that cave."

Dark Days That Leave Me With Foreboding | Newsmax.com

The dark winter is coming.
Stein was scared about Trump when he was elected. Especially on the economy, which he was then proven wrong about by the looks of his comments above.

Ben Stein: 'I don't think Trump knows a goddamn thing about economics' | US economy | The Guardian

He seems very prone to panicking every time there is an election. In the article, he made it sound like the economy was going to collapse under Trump - now he thinks America is being led into a cave.
 
Here is a question to the Biden supporters.

If you knew that the election was won by fraud, would you even care? Would you press for Trump to take his rightful place? I'm going to bet no.
You don't "know" it was won by fraud. You just *think* you do because Trump is telling you that. And other politicians (and news sources) now make their entire careers appealing to their sycophantic base.

60 plus court cases later, it appears Trump is the fraud.

Trump has a history of this. In 2016, he said Ted Cruz only won the Iowa primary by "voter fraud." He said the Emmys were "rigged."

You might as well have asked, "question to Scientologists, if you *knew* the truth about Xenu, wouldn't you want the world to know?"

Question to Trumpists: where is all this hard evidence hiding?

Again, why did Trump-appointed lower court judges not see this clear "evidence"?

Why did the Republican Governor and the Secretary of State of Georgia say audit and audit after audit there was no fraud?

Why did the Republican Senator of Pennsylvania who *campaigned* for Trump say he reviewed the case there and there was no fraud?

Are they all "deep state" like Q conspiracy theorists like Majorie Taylor Greene say? I mean hell, Lin Wood (as of yesterday) is now saying Pence must also be "deep state" and executed by firing squad.

All Trump has is the testimonies of a few randos like the woman in Michigan with a rap sheet who lied about being an IT expert, right wing bloggers and YouTubers, and the post office guy in Erie who was arguing over *two* whole votes. The whole thing is massively hypocritical since republicans argued against testimony during Impeachment (saying it was unreliable).

It's not "fishy" that Trump was in the lead in Pennsylvania and suddenly he wasn't. The vote count is always finished in rural counties first. They are smaller. This happens every election. Trump won rural counties and lost the cities. It's only "fishy" because Trump screams it in all caps.

60+ court cases later. No fraud.

Even Giuliani said "this is not a fraud case" in court.

And yes, if there was evidence, I wouldn't want Biden seated. Country over party.

Biden supporters know Biden isn't a God or the "infallible Pope." Trump supporters take Trump's word *literally* as gospel. Even though he's on a Woodward Tape admitting to repeatedly lying to the American people.
 
Apparently Trump also didn't know the UK was a nuclear power either: Donald Trump 'unaware UK was nuclear power', says former aide

And this man who wrote his own medical report to prove he was healthy and who also bragged about passing an Alzheimer's test, could have nuked every "person, woman, man, camera and TV".

If it wasn't for anyone correcting him on that, then he could have nuked London and afterwards not have a clue who dropped a nuclear bomb on his residence in New York 5 minutes later. He would probably still blame everything on Obama though.
 
Here is a question to the Biden supporters.

If you knew that the election was won by fraud, would you even care? Would you press for Trump to take his rightful place? I'm going to bet no.
Here is a question to Trump supporters.

Was there ever going to be a scenario where Trump lost, he admitted defeat, and his sycophantic followers agreed that he lost fair and square? Or is it more like taking the conclusion and working backwards to hope there's evidence?

All the Trump supporters keep talking about fishy "irregularities." Yes, there are 328 million people in the country. If you look into detail of every single vote and every single comment by every single voter -- and you see things the way you want to see them -- things are going to appear fishy to you.

Something that pisses me off so much is that the same people who claim voter fraud with zero evidence are the same people bashing the MeToo movement because people are coming forward "for money" or "for attention." Yet the dude at the Erie post office who recanted his story (according to FactCheck.org)? Well he was cheated of showing that all of democracy is broken in the United States.

Unbelievable. It's really hard to respect people who are such brazen hypocrites. They view the world from a perspective of power and control. Not fairness or intellectual honesty. Always move the goal posts, no matter what.
 
When the courts dismissed the lawsuits of voter fraud, how long did it take for the courts to dismiss the lawsuits after they were submitted? To prove that there was voter fraud, don't they have to investigate it for weeks and months?

Why did they dismiss the lawsuits so quick? It should be taking weeks and months to investigate to find out if there was voter fraud.
When you bring a case to court and you don't have evidence, a case is dismissed.

If the Trump campaign had evidence, the cases would have been tried.

If I accuse you of murder (for instance) and there is no dead body or even a missing person, there is no case. I can't just say you murdered someone and keep waiting for "evidence" to show up.
 
Here is a question to the Biden supporters.

If you knew that the election was won by fraud, would you even care? Would you press for Trump to take his rightful place? I'm going to bet no.
I would. It's just that the courts and the fact checkers have overwhelmingly rejected the fraud notions. But if things were different and they had real evidence that could stand in court, then yes I'd say Trump should stay President. In that circumstance, it'd be the right thing to do.
Good article here by Ben Stein.

"I feel scared about Mr. Biden. Really scared. We elected a man we don't even know. He has no platform. No program. We elected him just to be rid of Mr. Trump.

But Mr. Trump was a great president. He was great for the economy, great for not starting any wars. Great for winding down the wars we are in.

He was great for Israel and actually set the Mideast on the path to peace. And now he apparently is being kicked out for no good reason I can understand, just because the all-powerful media went to war with him.

I feel as if we are being led into a dark forest and then into a cave and we don't know what's in that cave."

Dark Days That Leave Me With Foreboding | Newsmax.com

The dark winter is coming.
This article is ridiculous. Biden does have a program. You can literally go read anytime you want. I have read it in fact. Trump is the one that on several major policy areas had vague proposals that we didn't know the details for.

For example, what was Trump's plan for education? That's a pretty big issue that as far as I can see, Trump only had vague slogans for.
 
Those early morning vote spikes seem very strange. The ratio of Biden to Trump votes seems ridiculous in that short time span. No wonder so many Republican Senators want to contest the electoral votes. They need to at least do an audit in the swing states. Listen to what Senators Johnson and Paul have to say, so that the people of both parties can know if there was any significant fraud or not, and get it settled for future elections if nothing else.
I'm not against an audit. Audit until the end of time for all I care. But it's annoying because these people will not believe the audit. Just like they didn't believe the damn court system. They don't believe anything that says Trump lost.
 
You don't "know" it was won by fraud. You just *think* you do because Trump is telling you that. And other politicians (and news sources) now make their entire careers appealing to their sycophantic base.

60 plus court cases later, it appears Trump is the fraud.

Trump has a history of this. In 2016, he said Ted Cruz only won the Iowa primary by "voter fraud." He said the Emmys were "rigged."

You might as well have asked, "question to Scientologists, if you *knew* the truth about Xenu, wouldn't you want the world to know?"

Question to Trumpists: where is all this hard evidence hiding?

Again, why did Trump-appointed lower court judges not see this clear "evidence"?

Why did the Republican Governor and the Secretary of State of Georgia say audit and audit after audit there was no fraud?

Why did the Republican Senator of Pennsylvania who *campaigned* for Trump say he reviewed the case there and there was no fraud?

Are they all "deep state" like Q conspiracy theorists like Majorie Taylor Greene say? I mean hell, Lin Wood (as of yesterday) is now saying Pence must also be "deep state" and executed by firing squad.

All Trump has is the testimonies of a few randos like the woman in Michigan with a rap sheet who lied about being an IT expert, right wing bloggers and YouTubers, and the post office guy in Erie who was arguing over *two* whole votes. The whole thing is massively hypocritical since republicans argued against testimony during Impeachment (saying it was unreliable).

It's not "fishy" that Trump was in the lead in Pennsylvania and suddenly he wasn't. The vote count is always finished in rural counties first. They are smaller. This happens every election. Trump won rural counties and lost the cities. It's only "fishy" because Trump screams it in all caps.

60+ court cases later. No fraud.

Even Giuliani said "this is not a fraud case" in court.

And yes, if there was evidence, I wouldn't want Biden seated. Country over party.

Biden supporters know Biden isn't a God or the "infallible Pope." Trump supporters take Trump's word *literally* as gospel. Even though he's on a Woodward Tape admitting to repeatedly lying to the American people.
It was just a hypothetical question, and you didn't answer it. If you knew that it was fraud, would you just look the other way because it would mean no more Trump?

If I felt like the election was not won because of fraud I would reluctantly accept Biden as President. Back in 2016 there was zero evidence of fraud, unlike now, and many Democrats NEVER accepted Trump as their President. They spent the last 4 years and many millions of taxpayer dollars trying to get rid of him.

With the evidence we see now, there are about 70 million Americans that feel like this needs to be looked at much closer. It feels like when Nancy Pelosi told Congress to pass Obamacare without reading it first. "Pass it now and you can read it later". What a disaster. Many of those 70 million Americans, nearly half of the country's registered voters, may never accept the results of this election. We aren't asking that the election be overturned, only that there be an in depth "trial" or review of the evidence in a public forum. Right now the courts aren't even hearing the cases. It's bullshit.
 
Apparently Trump also didn't know the UK was a nuclear power either: Donald Trump 'unaware UK was nuclear power', says former aide

And this man who wrote his own medical report to prove he was healthy and who also bragged about passing an Alzheimer's test, could have nuked every "person, woman, man, camera and TV".

If it wasn't for anyone correcting him on that, then he could have nuked London and afterwards not have a clue who dropped a nuclear bomb on his residence in New York 5 minutes later. He would probably still blame everything on Obama though.
Your source is John Bolton. Mustache man!
 
Here is a question to Trump supporters.

Was there ever going to be a scenario where Trump lost, he admitted defeat, and his sycophantic followers agreed that he lost fair and square? Or is it more like taking the conclusion and working backwards to hope there's evidence?

All the Trump supporters keep talking about fishy "irregularities." Yes, there are 328 million people in the country. If you look into detail of every single vote and every single comment by every single voter -- and you see things the way you want to see them -- things are going to appear fishy to you.

Something that pisses me off so much is that the same people who claim voter fraud with zero evidence are the same people bashing the MeToo movement because people are coming forward "for money" or "for attention." Yet the dude at the Erie post office who recanted his story (according to FactCheck.org)? Well he was cheated of showing that all of democracy is broken in the United States.

Unbelievable. It's really hard to respect people who are such brazen hypocrites. They view the world from a perspective of power and control. Not fairness or intellectual honesty. Always move the goal posts, no matter what.
Don't get me started on hypocrites! Look no farther than the Democratic Party.
 
When you bring a case to court and you don't have evidence, a case is dismissed.

If the Trump campaign had evidence, the cases would have been tried.

If I accuse you of murder (for instance) and there is no dead body or even a missing person, there is no case. I can't just say you murdered someone and keep waiting for "evidence" to show up.
I don't believe that is the case here. I truly believe that some of the judges are politically biased and that most don't want to be the first one to set a national precedent of overturning or even holding up the election of an American President. At least 2 Supreme Court Justices stood up. One was Thomas.
 
Don't get me started on hypocrites! Look no farther than the Democratic Party.
We will not get anywhere in a conversation if you honestly believe that Republicans are less hypocritical than Democrats. And no, I am not saying the Democratic Party is free of hypocrisy. We're still talking about a lot in both parties. But I'm sorry, the party of Trump just squashes the discussion.
 
I would. It's just that the courts and the fact checkers have overwhelmingly rejected the fraud notions. But if things were different and they had real evidence that could stand in court, then yes I'd say Trump should stay President. In that circumstance, it'd be the right thing to do.

This article is ridiculous. Biden does have a program. You can literally go read anytime you want. I have read it in fact. Trump is the one that on several major policy areas had vague proposals that we didn't know the details for.

For example, what was Trump's plan for education? That's a pretty big issue that as far as I can see, Trump only had vague slogans for.
One of Trump's ideas for education is school choice. Where the parents can choose where their child attends school. That would be a great thing for inner city kids. It's tough though to fight the teacher's unions. I know how strong they are because I used to teach high school.
 
We will not get anywhere in a conversation if you honestly believe that Republicans are less hypocritical than Democrats. And no, I am not saying the Democratic Party is free of hypocrisy. We're still talking about a lot in both parties. But I'm sorry, the party of Trump just squashes the discussion.
IMO both parties are hypocrites, yes. The Democrats are more at fault in this matter, Republicans certainly aren't innocent though. One of the biggest problems is that the left has nearly the entire mainstream media in their corner fighting for them. There seems to be no unbiased reporting these days. Something like 90% of the coverage of Trump has been negative. Some studies looked at it. Can you see why people on the right are skeptical?

To top things off, the Democrats have weaponized government agencies such as the FBI and IRS.
 
I don't believe that is the case here. I truly believe that some of the judges are politically biased and that most don't want to be the first one to set a national precedent of overturning or even holding up the election of an American President. At least 2 Supreme Court Justices stood up. One was Thomas.
Lower court judges that Trump appointed himself are politically motivated and ignore all that "evidence" (that turns out to be false)?

Giuliani *knows* there is no evidence. That is why he said "this is not a fraud case" because he knew he couldn't prove fraud in court. Is he politically motivated to say that too? Is he "deep state" too now?
 
One of Trump's ideas for education is school choice. Where the parents can choose where their child attends school. That would be a great thing for inner city kids. It's tough though to fight the teacher's unions. I know how strong they are because I used to teach high school.
Yeah I know, but that's as far as he got. He never explained how School Choice would work under his vision. Some questions that he never bothered to answer:

1. Would the school choice system be a national system or would states and localities still be paying for most of education? If the former, how will the feds pay for 700 billion in new spending and if the latter, how will the feds force states and localities to go along with this?
2. What will schools have to do to qualify for voucher money if anything at all?
3. Will private schools still be allowed to turn away students?
4. Will schools that discriminate against LGBT people be eligible for funding?

These are important questions, these aren't things you can just get to later.

There are more questions but I won't continue, you get the point. Trump just said he was for school choice but that'd about as specific as saying you are for universal healthcare. Biden meanwhile had a detailed and thorough plan for how to address the problems in education. He did his homework while Trump just kept saying he was for school choice and he called it the "civil rights issue of our time", which is fair but if it's so important, why didn't he ever fully explain what the hell he wanted?
 
I don't believe that is the case here. I truly believe that some of the judges are politically biased and that most don't want to be the first one to set a national precedent of overturning or even holding up the election of an American President. At least 2 Supreme Court Justices stood up. One was Thomas.
No, the two justices said that Texas had jurisdiction but the case was still BS. They didn't in anyway stand up for Trumps allies and based on their statements, would not have voted to overturn anything.
 
IMO both parties are hypocrites, yes. The Democrats are more at fault in this matter, Republicans certainly aren't innocent though. One of the biggest problems is that the left has nearly the entire mainstream media in their corner fighting for them. There seems to be no unbiased reporting these days. Something like 90% of the coverage of Trump has been negative. Some studies looked at it. Can you see why people on the right are skeptical?

To top things off, the Democrats have weaponized government agencies such as the FBI and IRS.
It's odd to me what your criticisms of the Democratic Party are. Most people think the biggest problem with the Democratic Party is that they are too weak and enabling. As in, they are so sensitive to hypocrisy and proving themselves to Republicans, that they just cave nonstop.

I hate to say this, and I do not agree with it, but voting against the Democratic Party because of weakness makes more sense to me. My mind can understand the voter who knows the party of Trump is a hypocritical mess, but likes the power. I can't really understand watching the past 4 years and think the fundamental problem is that the Democratic Party is more hypocritical than the GOP.

Let me be concrete on my opinions. I believe if under Obama's presidency, he acts exactly the same, has the same policies, same rhetoric, etc, but you put an (R) next to his name and every time he gently admonishes Republicans, you replace the word "Republican" with "Democrat", I think he is considered to be an excellent President by the right -- well, with a few changes like making him white and having a little more pro second amendment rhetoric with the same policies.

The converse is not true at all. Most Democrats really hate Trump and it has simply nothing to do with the fact that he's a Republican.
 
Those early morning vote spikes seem very strange. The ratio of Biden to Trump votes seems ridiculous in that short time span. No wonder so many Republican Senators want to contest the electoral votes. They need to at least do an audit in the swing states. Listen to what Senators Johnson and Paul have to say, so that the people of both parties can know if there was any significant fraud or not, and get it settled for future elections if nothing else.
It's like if someone were to claim they flipped a coin 10 times and got tails 9 of those times.
 
Do you all expect any changes or reforms to the medical process in the government over the next two years? I vaguely remember some discussion at some point regarding perhaps improving the ability of the FDA to get medicine through (i.e. reduce the time it takes for approval).

If I'm not mistaken, Democrats have historically been the ones to make moves in the medical sector, so now would be a good chance. This is especially true with regenerative medicine on the rise!
 
I just want to find 11,780 votes': In extraordinary hour-long call, Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state to recalculate the vote in his favor 'I just want to find 11,780 votes': In extraordinary hour-long call, Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state to recalculate the vote in his favor

President Trump urged fellow Republican Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia secretary of state, to "find" enough votes to overturn his defeat in an extraordinary one-hour phone call Saturday that election experts said raised legal questions.

The Washington Post obtained a recording of the conversation in which Trump alternately berated Raffensperger, tried to flatter him, begged him to act and threatened him with vague criminal consequences if the secretary of state refused to pursue his false claims, at one point warning that Raffensperger was taking "a big risk."

(...)

During their conversation, Trump issued a vague threat to both Raffensperger and Ryan Germany, the secretary of state's general counsel, suggesting that if they don't find that thousands of ballots in Fulton County have been illegally destroyed to block investigators — an allegation for which there is no evidence — they would be subject to criminal liability.


"That's a criminal offense," he said. "And you can't let that happen. That's a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer."

(...)

Trump also told Raffensperger that failure to act by Tuesday would jeopardize the political fortunes of David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler, Georgia's two Republican senators whose fate in that day's runoff elections will determine control of the U.S. Senate.

Trump's conversation with Raffensperger put him in legally questionable territory, legal experts said. By exhorting the secretary of state to "find" votes and to deploy investigators who "want to find answers," Trump appears to be encouraging him to doctor the election outcome in Georgia.

Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...5acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html
 
I'm not against an audit. Audit until the end of time for all I care. But it's annoying because these people will not believe the audit. Just like they didn't believe the damn court system. They don't believe anything that says Trump lost.
I just think an audit would be good for all voters so we can move on without some being skeptical. Maybe there was minimal fraud that wouldn't affect the election? There appears to be some fraud according to the court hearings in Atlanta.
 

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