2020 US Presidential Election

[Born To Slay]

Stunningly bigoted legislation coming out of Alabama targeting trans kids. The bill would:

1. stop trans kids from using puberty blockers (which are 100% reversible btw if need be), hormone therapy and surgery until they are 19 years old
2. would make it law that teachers and school officials must out trans students to their parents

The latter portion is nothing new. States have for years now been trying to do this with LGBT kids in general but no state was ever bigoted enough and hated their own kids enough until now. The Alabama Senate passed the bill by a whopping 23-4 margin. The Alabama House has already passed its own version and the Governor is expected to sign the bigoted bill.

Alabama lawmakers vote to criminalize gender-affirming health care for transgender youth

 

[Zugzug]

Stunningly bigoted legislation coming out of Alabama targeting trans kids. The bill would:

1. stop trans kids from using puberty blockers (which are 100% reversible btw if need be), hormone therapy and surgery until they are 19 years old
2. would make it law that teachers and school officials must out trans students to their parents

The latter portion is nothing new. States have for years now been trying to do this with LGBT kids in general but no state was ever bigoted enough and hated their own kids enough until now. The Alabama Senate passed the bill by a whopping 23-4 margin. The Alabama House has already passed its own version and the Governor is expected to sign the bigoted bill.

Alabama lawmakers vote to criminalize gender-affirming health care for transgender youth

If there's anything I've learned, it's that the deep south and liberal north practically don't even live in the same country. The deep south makes me feel like I'm living in the 1700s.

 

[Luman]

If there's anything I've learned, it's that the deep south and liberal north practically don't even live in the same country. The deep south makes me feel like I'm living in the 1700s.

You can thank Abe Lincoln for sacrificing 850,000 lives in order to prevent the South from seceding.

 

[Luman]

Biden can't even handle a simple press conference, so he simply doesn't have any. It's all over the news, in America at least.

Biden not yet holding a formal news conference raises accountability questions

Battenfeld: Joe Biden can't handle a press conference – where is the outrage?

Biden hasn't held a news conference or been imitated on 'SNL' in his presidency. Why not?

 

[Born To Slay]

If there's anything I've learned, it's that the deep south and liberal north practically don't even live in the same country. The deep south makes me feel like I'm living in the 1700s.

I just wish we'd split to be honest, just let the Confederacy go bankrupt while all the productive States with high GDP (except Texas) stay in America. That'd cut the deficit since most of the South are leeches that take more federal dollars then they give while being ungrateful and crying about socialism like whiny uneducated little bitches.

 

[Born To Slay]

You can thank Abe Lincoln for sacrificing 850,000 lives in order to prevent the South from seceding.

Most sources put it at closer to 650,000 but still Jesus Christ, that's 2% of the population. He really should've just let them leave. We'd literally be better off.

 

[FGG]

I just wish we'd split to be honest, just let the Confederacy go bankrupt while all the productive States with high GDP (except Texas) stay in America. That'd cut the deficit since most of the South are leeches that take more federal dollars then they give while being ungrateful and crying about socialism like whiny uneducated little bitches.

I get the sentiment but that's an unrealistic fantasy (on both sides) imo. Rural people in the North and urban people in the South would not be cool with this. Yes, you'd concentrate more power to the rural voters in the new confederate states and get to have a further right nation there and yes more power to the cities in the North would move the Union left but you'd have a lot of civil war and violence in both of those places. The culture of the rural vs urban areas will not change with new flags.

It boils down to the fact that a main reason the South is different politically from the North is that it was the agriculture center of the country (vs the industrial urban North). Just drawing a line across the Mason-Dixon ain't fixing that.

@Born To Slay and @Luman, I know you are both New Yorkers. Have either of you, out of curiosity, spent any time in the South?

 

[Luman]

@Born To Slay and @Luman, I know you are both New Yorkers. Have either of you, out of curiosity, spent any time in the South?

No, it's too hot. I have nothing against the South, it's simply a different culture and they should have been allowed to separate when they asked to, or Lincoln could have negotiated a better solution than an all-out civil war. If anything should be canceled, that statue of him in D.C. should be melted down, and his image should be taken off the currency.

 

[Luman]

Just curious, but do the pro-lifers agree with the punishments laid out in the Arkansas bill?

Up to 10 years and jail and $100,000 fine for women who have an illegal abortion if outlawed.

I am not against abortion but if the people in Alabama want to have this law, then that's their business. Women in Alabama who want an abortion can go somewhere else to get one legally.

 

[Born To Slay]

I get the sentiment but that's an unrealistic fantasy (on both sides) imo. Rural people in the North and urban people in the South would not be cool with this. Yes, you'd concentrate more power to the rural voters in the new confederate states and get to have a further right nation there and yes more power to the cities in the North would move the Union left but you'd have a lot of civil war and violence in both of those places. The culture of the rural vs urban areas will not change with new flags.

It boils down to the fact that a main reason the South is different politically from the North is that it was the agriculture center of the country (vs the industrial urban North). Just drawing a line across the Mason-Dixon ain't fixing that.

@Born To Slay and @Luman, I know you are both New Yorkers. Have either of you, out of curiosity, spent any time in the South?

I don't think you'd have violent civil wars since the overwhelming majority of the new nations would be of their respective belief. It'd be a suicide mission for those people, they'd either have to accept their minority status politically or move to the other country.

The North could provide resources to help people escape the fascist South also. Then we'd have a social democracy in the North and a fascist conservative government in the South.

To answer your last question, no I haven't. The farthest South I've been is DC. The only states I've been to are NY, PA, NJ, CA, and whatever Nevada is. I drove thru the states in between NY and DC on a bus but I don't really count that.

I wouldn't mind going to the South though, it just repulses me how bigoted and hateful they are.

 

[FGG]

I am not against abortion but if the people in Alabama want to have this law, then that's their business. Women in Alabama who want an abortion can go somewhere else to get one legally.

Okay. But that wasn't really the question...

Do you think that sentence is an appropriate one for the ones that don't make it out if Arkansas (it was Arkansas, not Alabama btw)?

 

[Born To Slay]

I am not against abortion but if the people in Alabama want to have this law, then that's their business. Women in Alabama who want an abortion can go somewhere else to get one legally.

But with that logic, states can pass anything. We all know that if we didn't force them, the South would still have outright Jim Crow going on down there.

Also, a majority of abortion patients live below the poverty line, is it really realistic to make them travel out of state? Especially cause if Arkansas gets away with this, u know other states will and soon you'll have a women in Montgomery traveling hundreds of miles.

 

[FGG]

I don't think you'd have violent civil wars since the overwhelming majority of the new nations would be of their respective belief. It'd be a suicide mission for those people, they'd either have to accept their minority status politically or move to the other country.

The North could provide resources to help people escape the fascist South also. Then we'd have a social democracy in the North and a fascist conservative government in the South.

To answer your last question, no I haven't. The farthest South I've been is DC. The only states I've been to are NY, PA, NJ, CA, and whatever Nevada is. I drove thru the states in between NY and DC on a bus but I don't really count that.

I wouldn't mind going to the South though, it just repulses me how bigoted and hateful they are.

I have lived in the South for most of my life (as well as born and raised in the rural South) and I can say with absolutely no hesitation that I saw way more bigotry and hate in the Chicago area than anywhere I have spent time with here.

Of course, obviously there is bigotry here. There is bigotry everywhere. And if bigotry is the reason to split from the South, I really want to remind Northerners that, for all its relative progressiveness, the North has far more segregated neighborhoods. Chicago even had a term for it, "hypersegregation."

"The South" as a region isn't a hateful and bigoted monolith. Only some of the people in power and their supporters are. There are so many people here fighting for nationwide equality, though. Google "y'all means all" and you will see murals and merchandise everywhere with that logo and idea.

Yankees (I have to, sorry ) also don't realize there is also a huge cultural difference between coastal south (e.g., VA, NC, GA) and "deep South" (AL, AR, MS).

But even in the "deep South" there is a softer side (I loved this daily show clip on the subject):

https://www.cc.com/video/oe9257/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-last-gay-standing

It's slightly amusing to me that it's totally socially acceptable to relentlessly stereotype Southerners and lump them all together because "bigotry sucks."

All that aside, if we make it through this and anyone wants to see the side of the South that I (even as a total progressive) adore, I will offer a couch and a tour .

 

[Lucifer]

I have lived in the South for most of my life (as well as born and raised in the rural South) and I can say with absolutely no hesitation that I saw way more bigotry and hate in the Chicago area than anywhere I have spent time with here.

Of course, obviously there is bigotry here. There is bigotry everywhere. And if bigotry is the reason to split from the South, I really want to remind Northerners that, for all its relative progressiveness, the North has far more segregated neighborhoods. Chicago even had a term for it, "hypersegregation."

"The South" as a region isn't a hateful and bigoted monolith. Only some of the people in power and their supporters are. There are so many people here fighting for nationwide equality, though. Google "y'all means all" and you will see murals and merchandise everywhere with that logo and idea.

Yankees (I have to, sorry ) also don't realize there is also a huge cultural difference between coastal south (e.g., VA, NC, GA) and "deep South" (AL, AR, MS).

But even in the "deep South" there is a softer side (I loved this daily show clip on the subject):

https://www.cc.com/video/oe9257/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-last-gay-standing

It's slightly amusing to me that it's totally socially acceptable to relentlessly stereotype Southerners and lump them all together because "bigotry sucks."

All that aside, if we make it through this and anyone wants to see the side of the South that I (even as a total progressive) adore, I will offer a couch and a tour .

I have to agree with you on this and just to add on from what you said, from my observation, I have noticed that a lot of these physical hate attacks have been happening in Democratic states whereas in Republican states seems to happen very rarely or none at all.

Not sure if this is because of the gun laws being less strict in Republican over Democratic states. In Republican states, more people are more likely to be armed than those in Democratic states so this mean less likely to get randomly attacked out in the streets.

 

[FGG]

I have to agree with you on this and just to add on from what you said, from my observation, I have noticed that a lot of these physical hate attacks have been happening in Democratic states whereas in Republican states seems to happen very rarely or none at all.

Not sure if this is because of the gun laws being less strict in Republican over Democratic states. In Republican states, more people are more likely to be armed than those in Democratic states so this mean less likely to get randomly attacked out in the streets.

Eh. It's really the most populous states (most are blue) have the most "incidents" so you hear about it more. Texas has a lot of guns and ranks high in reported incidents.

Number of hate crime offenses in the United States in 2019, by state

Now, if you go per capita, North Dakota is one of the highest and they are a very Republican state with a lot of guns.

Really wasn't what I was getting at as the majority of racists don't actually commit hate crimes.

 

[Lucifer]

Eh. It's really the most populous states (most are blue) have the most "incidents" so you hear about it more. Texas has a lot of guns and ranks high in reported incidents.

Number of hate crime offenses in the United States in 2019, by state

Now, if you go per capita, North Dakota is one of the highest and they are a very Republican state with a lot of guns.

Really wasn't what I was getting at as the majority of racists don't actually commit hate crimes.

Could you screenshot that page? I can't check it because it says I need to pay?

 

[FGG]

Could you screenshot that page? I can't check it because it says I need to pay?

That's so strange. It's now asking me to pay too. It didn't the first time. I just googled "hate crimes by state", though. There are multiple sites with similar info.

 

[Born To Slay]

I have lived in the South for most of my life (as well as born and raised in the rural South) and I can say with absolutely no hesitation that I saw way more bigotry and hate in the Chicago area than anywhere I have spent time with here.

Of course, obviously there is bigotry here. There is bigotry everywhere. And if bigotry is the reason to split from the South, I really want to remind Northerners that, for all its relative progressiveness, the North has far more segregated neighborhoods. Chicago even had a term for it, "hypersegregation."

"The South" as a region isn't a hateful and bigoted monolith. Only some of the people in power and their supporters are. There are so many people here fighting for nationwide equality, though. Google "y'all means all" and you will see murals and merchandise everywhere with that logo and idea.

Yankees (I have to, sorry ) also don't realize there is also a huge cultural difference between coastal south (e.g., VA, NC, GA) and "deep South" (AL, AR, MS).

But even in the "deep South" there is a softer side (I loved this daily show clip on the subject):

https://www.cc.com/video/oe9257/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-last-gay-standing

It's slightly amusing to me that it's totally socially acceptable to relentlessly stereotype Southerners and lump them all together because "bigotry sucks."

All that aside, if we make it through this and anyone wants to see the side of the South that I (even as a total progressive) adore, I will offer a couch and a tour .

Okay, so you make some good points but I do have pushback on some things.

While there is bigotry everywhere, I think it's hard to compare them. The South is the only region in the country pushing all these bigoted bill against LGBT people (well a few Midwestern states have tried it to but it's mostly the South). They're also overwhelmingly the only region pushing the draconian voter suppression bills meant to screw over the African American community. What am I supposed to think?

Obviously not every Southerner is a bigot but they definitely have a bigger problem with it than the rest of the country. If they didn't, they would've have all these racist and homophobic law makers trying to kill their trans kids and keep black people out of polling booths.

That said, I'd be totally up for a tour. We definitely gotta do that after FX-322 comes out.

 

[Lucifer]

That's so strange. It's now asking me to pay too. It didn't the first time. I just googled "hate crimes by state", though. There are multiple sites with similar info.

When you mentioned hate in your previous post I assumed you were talking about the hate crimes that have been happening a lot recently but I didn't realise you were talking about bigotry hate.

Did that page that you link ever go into more detail about the race of the perpetrator of these hate/violent crimes in each state?

 

[FGG]

Okay, so you make some good points but I do have pushback on some things.

While there is bigotry everywhere, I think it's hard to compare them. The South is the only region in the country pushing all these bigoted bill against LGBT people (well a few Midwestern states have tried it to but it's mostly the South). They're also overwhelmingly the only region pushing the draconian voter suppression bills meant to screw over the African American community. What am I supposed to think?

Obviously not every Southerner is a bigot but they definitely have a bigger problem with it than the rest of the country. If they didn't, they would've have all these racist and homophobic law makers trying to kill their trans kids and keep black people out of polling booths.

That said, I'd be totally up for a tour. We definitely gotta do that after FX-322 comes out.

A lot of those types of law makers being in power really has to do with gerrymandering and voter suppression, though, which is of course why they are aiming for more of it.

I think there is a cultural "old South" but the region is evolving quickly and not given enough credit.

North Carolina for instance had the "bathroom law" pushed by a Governor who promised to be moderate. He lost re-election so that should tell you something about what people in the state thought of him. We have had openly gay mayors in this state, too.

But NC is not Arkansas and you probably do have more of the cultural "old South" there in the "deep South" but change is spreading, even if it is slow.

 

[FGG]

When you mentioned hate in your previous post I assumed you were talking about the hate crimes that have been happening a lot recently but I didn't realise you were talking about bigotry hate.

Did that page that you link ever go into more detail about the race of the perpetrator of these hate/violent crimes in each state?

That particular site didn't but that info is out there I'm sure.

 

[Zugzug]

I have lived in the South for most of my life (as well as born and raised in the rural South) and I can say with absolutely no hesitation that I saw way more bigotry and hate in the Chicago area than anywhere I have spent time with here.

Of course, obviously there is bigotry here. There is bigotry everywhere. And if bigotry is the reason to split from the South, I really want to remind Northerners that, for all its relative progressiveness, the North has far more segregated neighborhoods. Chicago even had a term for it, "hypersegregation."

"The South" as a region isn't a hateful and bigoted monolith. Only some of the people in power and their supporters are. There are so many people here fighting for nationwide equality, though. Google "y'all means all" and you will see murals and merchandise everywhere with that logo and idea.

Yankees (I have to, sorry ) also don't realize there is also a huge cultural difference between coastal south (e.g., VA, NC, GA) and "deep South" (AL, AR, MS).

But even in the "deep South" there is a softer side (I loved this daily show clip on the subject):

https://www.cc.com/video/oe9257/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-last-gay-standing

It's slightly amusing to me that it's totally socially acceptable to relentlessly stereotype Southerners and lump them all together because "bigotry sucks."

All that aside, if we make it through this and anyone wants to see the side of the South that I (even as a total progressive) adore, I will offer a couch and a tour .

Shortly after graduating college, my wife and I went on a ~3 week road trip. We basically went from PA, down the coastal south to as low as Atlanta, then circled around through Tennessee, Kentucky, and to Ohio. Then back to PA.

Virginia was interesting; we saw the Holocaust Museum as well as the Norfolk Naval Shipyard. Years later, we went back to Virginia with my parents and saw a bunch of historical things pertaining to Washington (Mount Vernon), Jefferson (Monticello), and Colonial Williamsburg. We also ate at Buz and Ned's (best BBQ place in existence) both times.

One of my favorite things was the Carolinas. The Wright Brothers Memorial in Kitty Hawk, Bodie Island Lighthouse, Cape Hatteras Lighthouse were all pretty cool. Later on (years later), we honeymooned at Myrtle Beach. I have positive feelings towards the Carolinas.

We were mostly in Atlanta for all of the MLK stuff, IIRC. I also remember going to World Of Coca-Cola.

In Tennessee, we went to the Chattanooga Aquarium as well as Lookout Mountain. I also remember finding Jackson's Hermitage to be rather educational.

I recall the Louisville Slugger Museum in Kentucky.

In Cleveland, of course, the Rock and Roll Hall of Hame.

If you can believe it, we camped the whole thing to save money. I'm not a rugged person at all when it comes to that kind of thing, but my wife has a strong affinity for it. She has even gone on solo camping trips as a release during my hyperacusis. It's pretty advantageous to save money.

Anyways, these are my experiences in the south (other than one other trip to Disney with my wife's family). Regarding the content of what you're saying, there's no doubt about the fact that people shit all over southern accents. I definitely did it. In fact, I remember when we camped in Kitty Hawk and one guy would call his daughter "Ally" in like a hardcore southern accent. I mocked him the entire trip like an asshole. You're right that people do this without feeling any degree of bigotry.

Speaking of breaking the southern stereotype, have you ever listened to the podcast on John McLemore in S-Town? He grew up in the deep south in Alabama. I won't spoil it because it's extremely interesting, but much of the premise is that he was an intellectual in the deep south and ripped on his community constantly.

With this being said, obviously not everyone in the deep south is a bigot or bad person, but there is definitely a difference between the deep south and the Carolinas or Virginia. When we avoided the deep south, I don't remember there being a moment where we were like "no, that's the deep south," but it just sort of happened.

Those were the days. No health problems and I was still a whiny little bitch lol.

 

[Born To Slay]

A lot of those types of law makers being in power really has to do with gerrymandering and voter suppression, though, which is of course why they are aiming for more of it.

I think there is a cultural "old South" but the region is evolving quickly and not given enough credit.

North Carolina for instance had the "bathroom law" pushed by a Governor who promised to be moderate. He lost re-election so that should tell you something about what people in the state thought of him. We have had openly gay mayors in this state, too.

But NC is not Arkansas and you probably do have more of the cultural "old South" there in the "deep South" but change is spreading, even if it is slow.

View attachment 43886

Good point in voter suppression but considering bigoted politicians win statewide elections (impervious to gerrymandering), I think you can only blame gerrymandering so much.

The bathroom law lost the state money and that's why the governor (very narrowly) lost reelection, not because the state had a sudden change of heart on the issue. I remember that election well, it took months of boycotting the state for people turn against the governor. Hopefully Alabama gets the same treatment for being heartless bigots that wanna kill trans kids and we boycott them to third world status until they relent.

That said I'll acknowledge there's a difference between Virginia or even NC and places like Alabama or Mississippi. I'm sorry but it's hard to look at some places differently then I look at places Saudi Arabia.

 

[FGG]

Good point in voter suppression but considering bigoted politicians win statewide elections (impervious to gerrymandering), I think you can only blame gerrymandering so much.

The bathroom law lost the state money and that's why the governor (very narrowly) lost reelection, not because the state had a sudden change of heart on the issue. I remember that election well, it took months of boycotting the state for people turn against the governor. Hopefully Alabama gets the same treatment for being heartless bigots that wanna kill trans kids and we boycott them to third world status until they relent.

That said I'll acknowledge there's a difference between Virginia or even NC and places like Alabama or Mississippi. I'm sorry but it's hard to look at some places differently then I look at places Saudi Arabia.

You just aren't right about the bathroom bill. First off, the bill itself was McCrory's response to Charlotte (largest city in "Saudi Arabia" lol, unless you meant Alabama was) passing sweeping protections.

Secondly, the people of NC never voted for it. McCrory and the state legislature did (this is where gerrymandering comes in). It wasn't a popular bill at all and the reason McCrory narrowly lost is that he *heavily* campaigned for Trump and with Trump in this state.

McCrory *still* lost in a state Trump won in the same election if that tells you anything. Even many Trumpists here were conflicted on him. Just to put a fine point on it, Cooper (who is very much for LGBTQ protections), just got reflected here, not the Republican challenger in a state Trump again won.

McCrory campaigned on being fiscally center right and socially center and pissed a lot of people off with the bathroom bill even before the economic impact. A lot of the Republicans here are more the die hard "don't tread on me" types than the deep South evangelicals anyway and the thought of bringing an ID to the bathroom pissed those people off, too.

 

[Born To Slay]

You just aren't right about the bathroom bill. First off, the bill itself was McCrory's response to Charlotte (largest city in "Saudi Arabia" lol, unless you meant Alabama was) passing sweeping protections.

Secondly, the people of NC never voted for it. McCrory and the state legislature did (this is where gerrymandering comes in). It wasn't a popular bill at all and the reason McCrory narrowly lost is that he *heavily* campaigned for Trump and with Trump in this state.

McCrory *still* lost in a state Trump won in the same election if that tells you anything. Even many Trumpists here were conflicted on him. Just to put a fine point on it, Cooper (who is very much for LGBTQ protections), just got reflected here, not the Republican challenger in a state Trump again won.

McCrory campaigned on being fiscally center right and socially center and pissed a lot of people off with the bathroom bill even before the economic impact. A lot of the Republicans here are more the die hard "don't tread on me" types than the deep South evangelicals anyway and the thought of bringing an ID to the bathroom pissed those people off, too.

Yeah, I meant Alabama and Mississippi were Saudi Arabia, I'll acknowledge Virginia and NC are fairly far ahead of them.

That said, your argument here isn't the full picture. The state did support the bills repeal... but wanted to keep the main thing that made it egregious in the first place with a majority of voters saying they wanted to keep trans people out of the bathroom they identify because they're afraid of them.

"Support remains for one of the bill's key provisions – overturning a Charlotte ordinance that let transgender people use the bathroom of the gender with which they identify. Nearly half the voters agreed the policy could lead to sexual predators attacking victims in bathrooms, while 42 percent disagreed."

HB2 was a mistake, most N.C. voters say in Observer poll​

So yeah, the people wanted the bill repealed but liked what was in it. Seems like they just didn't like the entire country thinking they're bigoted to me. At the time of the election, they still backed their bigotry even as they elected a new Governor (by .2%).

Even now the South insists on passing anti Trans bills. Mississippi just did yesterday and Alabama is about to pass a bill that's probably going to kill some of them with how shamelessly draconian it is. Arkansas and Tennessee look like they'll be the next to follow. What the hell is going on down there?

 

[FGG]

Yeah, I meant Alabama and Mississippi were Saudi Arabia, I'll acknowledge Virginia and NC are fairly far ahead of them.

That said, your argument here isn't the full picture. The state did support the bills repeal... but wanted to keep the main thing that made it egregious in the first place with a majority of voters saying they wanted to keep trans people out of the bathroom they identify because they're afraid of them.

"Support remains for one of the bill's key provisions – overturning a Charlotte ordinance that let transgender people use the bathroom of the gender with which they identify. Nearly half the voters agreed the policy could lead to sexual predators attacking victims in bathrooms, while 42 percent disagreed."

HB2 was a mistake, most N.C. voters say in Observer poll​

So yeah, the people wanted the bill repealed but liked what was in it. Seems like they just didn't like the entire country thinking they're bigoted to me. At the time of the election, they still backed their bigotry even as they elected a new Governor (by .2%).

Even now the South insists on passing anti Trans bills. Mississippi just did yesterday and Alabama is about to pass a bill that's probably going to kill some of them with how shamelessly draconian it is. Arkansas and Tennessee look like they'll be the next to follow. What the hell is going on down there?

That was one polling outlet and one that Nate Silver gave a "B". Even then, it was "nearly half" of the state and not the majority. I personally wouldn't call that a "popular" bill.

The article does bring up the point that some support came from the idea (and one that McCrory pushed hard) that any sexual predator could just "say they are trans" put on a wig and follow a young girl who is going into a public bathroom by themselves.

It was dumb logic of course, and fear mongering, as sexual predators don't have a high rate of public bathroom targeting anyway (except maybe hidden cameras and this doesn't address that) and the ability to "say they are trans" doesn't change that.

In their mind the "inconvenience" to a small minority was not worth the perceived risk to children. And yeah it pissed me off, too. It pissed off a lot of people here who knew all it would do is put trans kids at risk and cause undue emotional distress (and threat of violence) to trans adults (women) especially. It wasn't about caring what the rest of the country "thinks" though. If companies started to pull out, they'd care but before that point, conservatives just aren't worried about that.

It was knee jerk and ignorant and it was less than half the state so I wouldn't put a black flag over the whole state and send us off to a hypothetical confederacy.

Some very progressive ideas have come from here. UNC (along with U of Georgia) were the first public universities and "affordable higher education" was actually written into our state constitution (McCrory challenged what "affordable meant" but before that I believe the UNC system was the cheapest in the country... it's still one of the cheapest).

We were also one of the sites of mental health reform and humane treatment in asylums.

And just for trivia, NC had two openly gay mayors (Chapel Hill and Carrboro) before the state of NY did.

Not a Southern State and a bit of a tangent, but a lot of people are surprised to learn that the first state to give women the right to vote was Wyoming, as well.

I will get off this rant, but I still think lumping all Southern States together as merely the "South" is not only wrong but it's only creating a bigger division. No one lumps Illinois with North Dakota as simply the "Midwest" and it's very misleading to do that here.

 

[Born To Slay]

That was one polling outlet and one that Nate Silver gave a "B". Even then, it was "nearly half" of the state and not the majority. I personally wouldn't call that a "popular" bill.

The article does bring up the point that some support came from the idea (and one that McCrory pushed hard) that any sexual predator could just "say they are trans" put on a wig and follow a young girl who is going into a public bathroom by themselves.

It was dumb logic of course, and fear mongering, as sexual predators don't have a high rate of public bathroom targeting anyway (except maybe hidden cameras and this doesn't address that) and the ability to "say they are trans" doesn't change that.

In their mind the "inconvenience" to a small minority was not worth the perceived risk to children. And yeah it pissed me off, too. It pissed off a lot of people here who knew all it would do is put trans kids at risk and cause undue emotional distress (and threat of violence) to trans adults (women) especially. It wasn't about caring what the rest of the country "thinks" though. If companies started to pull out, they'd care but before that point, conservatives just aren't worried about that.

It was knee jerk and ignorant and it was less than half the state so I wouldn't put a black flag over the whole state and send us off to a hypothetical confederacy.

Some very progressive ideas have come from here. UNC (along with U of Georgia) were the first public universities and "affordable higher education" was actually written into our state constitution (McCrory challenged what "affordable meant" but before that I believe the UNC system was the cheapest in the country... it's still one of the cheapest).

We were also one of the sites of mental health reform and humane treatment in asylums.

And just for trivia, NC had two openly gay mayors (Chapel Hill and Carrboro) before the state of NY did.

Not a Southern State and a bit of a tangent, but a lot of people are surprised to learn that the first state to give women the right to vote was Wyoming, as well.

I will get off this rant, but I still think lumping all Southern States together as merely the "South" is not only wrong but it's only creating a bigger division. No one lumps Illinois with North Dakota as simply the "Midwest" and it's very misleading to do that here.

It was the only poll I could find that went more into the weeds of the bill. Apparently the state itself wasn't polled much about the bill, let alone what's in it. The country was, which is kind of useless when you think about it.

And I understand the South isn't a monolith, I just said they seem to have more bigots then the rest of America and having a bigger problem with that. I think there's pretty solid empirical evidence to support that.

I do have rural family in PA tho who very liberal even the county is overwhelmingly conservative, so I do get that the South I'm sure has plenty of good people. Hell, Georgia has been impressive lately, so I'll give them credit for sending a black person and a Jewish person to the senate.

That said, if the hypothetical confederacy were a thing, I do believe the rest of America would almost certainly be well ahead of where we are in terms of fiscal and social policy. What the confederacy would be like is anyone's guess.

 

[FGG]

Okay, @Born To Slay, after reading this:

Alabama House Votes to Overturn Ban on Yoga in Schools – But 'Namaste' Is Still Forbidden

Maybe *parts* of the South really are incredibly off . Lol.

So my new plea is don't leave us (the other parts) with those weirdos...

 

[Born To Slay]

Okay, @Born To Slay, after reading this:

Alabama House Votes to Overturn Ban on Yoga in Schools – But 'Namaste' Is Still Forbidden

Maybe *parts* of the South really are incredibly off . Lol.

So my new plea is don't leave us (the other parts) with those weirdos...

I mean, if we were to split from the South, the hope would be that we could have some sort of program to help progressives and minorities relocate to the North.

 

[FGG]

I mean, if we were to split from the South, the hope would be that we could have some sort of program to help progressives and minorities relocate to the North.

Considering that home prices and rent are substantially cheaper in the South, I don't see how this is remotely feasible. Not to mention how many jobs you'd have to add for half of half the country.