2020 US Presidential Election

[FGG]

Hello. It looks I am allowed to post again. For now. I want to apologize if that's what I have to do but I also have a question. My core of my beliefs and perspectives is that people are brainwashed. I can't apologize for an opinion I have. Are you offended by this? I can't help it. I think the majority of populations are brainwashed but I am always willing to explain my reasoning. I think politics requires a thick skin and someone will always be offended or outraged about something. For me, it is about "waking up" and becoming enlightened. A great number never will.

Anyway, I will end my post saying if I say something that bothers you so much that you will report me, just tell me and I will cease posting that. Is that okay?

Finally, I want to say I am against censorship and no one has talked about Trump getting censored by Twitter. If it was Biden, I bet there would be outrage.

Was my post okay? I hope I didn't violate any rules or offend anyone.

Welcome back. This post had a much more neutral tone and I appreciate that personally.

I am not the person who reported you and I agree censorship is bad, however, I don't agree what Twitter is doing qualifies.

There are certain restrictions on free speech. For example, you can't tell "fire" in a theater.

Private companies can set community restrictions. If they feel (right or wrong), that a tweet violates their community standards for racism or inciting violence, or endangers public health (etc) they have a right to make a statement.

The only time I saw them flat out delete a tweet (vs. make their own statement) was due to copyright violations (they used music from a band in the background for a campaign video that did not approve it and asked for the video to be taken down).

People also accused Fox of censorship for cutting away at a press conference video that showed graffiti that said "fuck cops" which forced Fox to issue a statement essentially saying "it's literally just about the word fuck, we don't show profanity during the hours kids could be watching" because people were all over social media saying Fox was now part of the "left wing censorship machine."

And finally, while I personally believe Trump supporters are brainwashed, I wouldn't attack one personally on the forum and say things like "you are a brainwashed moron!" I think that's why people were upset.

 

[Christiaan]

I would love to see Trump win the election, it would be an interesting term to follow.

Rate my post "Winner" if you want to see Trump win too, or "Friendly" if you do not.

Is it for the sake of spectacle or do you think Trump still needs to keep America Great Again? If so (in the latter case), then why?

 

[PeteJ]

Let me ask you a substantive question. Do you think any of the people who have become "enlightened" are also brainwashed sheep? If so, what percentage? Do you think that if I stop watching MSM all together and turn to the alt right, I am now a political scholar?

I would suggest checking out other sources other than mainstream ones which are left of center. Doing some digging instead of just reading CNN.

But, indoctrination is very pervasive and ingrained. I don't expect anyone "on the left" to change their perspective so I can't answer your question.

 

[PeteJ]

Is it for the sake of spectacle or do you think Trump still needs to keep America Great Again? If so (in the latter case), then why?

Are you asking me? I am not a Trump fan, remember? Imho, I don't know where his real political position is. I explained this before. But, my critique was with hypocrisy, censorship and political spin which, from my p.o.v. is getting more aggressive and oppressive.

I tried using COVID-19 and BLM as two examples but from what I perceived, it was largely ignored here. It was my conclusion that it was of partisan politics reasons.

 

[PeteJ]

Welcome back. This post had a much more neutral tone and I appreciate that personally.

I am not the person who reported you and I agree censorship is bad, however, I don't agree what Twitter is doing qualifies.

There are certain restrictions on free speech. For example, you can't tell "fire" in a theater.

Private companies can set community restrictions. If they feel (right or wrong), that a tweet violates their community standards for racism or inciting violence, or endangers public health (etc) they have a right to make a statement.

The only time I saw them flat out delete a tweet (vs. make their own statement) was due to copyright violations (they used music from a band in the background for a campaign video that did not approve it and asked for the video to be taken down).

People also accused Fox of censorship for cutting away at a press conference video that showed graffiti that said "fuck cops" which forced Fox to issue a statement essentially saying "it's literally just about the word fuck, we don't show profanity during the hours kids could be watching" because people were all over social media saying Fox was now part of the "left wing censorship machine."

And finally, while I personally believe Trump supporters are brainwashed, I wouldn't attack one personally on the forum and say things like "you are a brainwashed moron!" I think that's why people were upset.

I don't know if I can believe you and wasn't going to reply but I will against my better judgment. I wholeheartedly disagree with your position.
There's any number of links about Twitter censoring Trump.
The only point that I can acknowledge is that it's a private company: "they can do what they want."
It's funny that leftists support corporations when it comes to censorship and if they support leftist/communist positions. But, I digress.

Of course, they can do what they want but so what? I am talking about universal principles and a collaborative effort and agenda of censorship of "wrong think." This "monopolization" of leftist political views and povs is still disconcerting when 99% of these companies are the main video/social media sites and can influence people's perceptions and beliefs. From MSM to social media etc.

I have to look at alternatives for a different view and those are vilified and attacked.

As for Fox, they are called "right" news sources but it's "pretend" for me. Controlled opposition and a fun "right" source for the masses to continue the charade.

The Trump Twitter Chronicles:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/2...sident-trump-for-saying-hell-enforce-the-law/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnbb...r-the-upcoming-election-heres-why-im-worried/
https://thehill.com/policy/technolo...et-on-protesters-for-including-threat-of-harm

Etc. take your pick of links or find another.

 

[just1morething]

I would love to see Trump win the election, it would be an interesting term to follow.

You and me are the minority it seems. I'm worried Joe Biden might fall asleep on the job.

 

[Zugzug]

I would suggest checking out other sources other than mainstream ones which are left of center. Doing some digging instead of just reading CNN.

But, indoctrination is very pervasive and ingrained. I don't expect anyone "on the left" to change their perspective so I can't answer your question.

This is actually an important topic. What I'm suggesting is that a blind overreaction to the anti-MSM movement isn't the answer and is just as, if not more, anti-intellectual. Believe it or not, most younger people don't get their news from CNN. I feel like (particularly right wingers) like to straw man and make it seem like everyone on the left just nods their head to CNN all day. I have never met someone who fully agreed with the MSM. They are flawed -- we agree.

Where I draw an issue is that I am just as cynical when I turn to other media sources. I get most of my news online, and I try to listen to a variety of viewpoints. I've listened to David Pakman, Kyle Kulinski, TYT, Ben Shapiro, Sam Seder, Coleman Hughes, Sam Harris, and others. As you can see from that list, some of those people disagree so much that they hold never-ending smear campaigns against each other. That list includes the full spectrum on basically every issue.

But, whenever I listen to these people to get their perspective, I don't start with the mindset of "This is gold! It's not CNN." I start with the mindset of "let me see what this is and judge it critically." By doing this, I have found that Ben Shapiro is a fraud, TYT is left wing sensationalism, Pakman (my favorite) is too much of a centrist sometimes, Kulinski is horrible at game theory and strategy, Sam Seder is a troll, Sam Harris has a fragile ego.

And yes, CNN is loaded with BS and misleading news. I do not disagree with you about getting news from a variety of sources. I guess I just disagree on the "enlightenment" thing. It sounds kind of hokey and anti-intellectual.

For whatever reason, you seem to only call out indoctrination on the left. I guess I just don't get it.

 

[PeteJ]

Is it for the sake of spectacle or do you think Trump still needs to keep America Great Again? If so (in the latter case), then why?

One more thing since it sounds like you think I support Trump but I don't except it's not for the reasons you don't.

A) I think he's either controlled and a puppet or I just don't agree with enough policies.
One e.g. Middle East conflict. Imho, all American candidates, Democrat or Republican, MUST BE unequivocally Israel-First.

I am against this and can't support anyone with this view. I support neutrality and not having favoritism or a 'side' and not getting involved in foreign conflicts. Some leftists support this.
As you might know, in Europe, the Left often supports Palestine while the Center and Right supports/favors Israel. I am against them all. I don't think I can be pigeonholed but I often find myself supporting the far right on most things. Not the one defined or accepted by the MSM, just in general.

Trump might make outrageous comments and remarks to you but to me, his core is to continue the status quo but act like he opposes certain policies and political perspectives. Since much of his support also has an issue with the mainstream, he has to cater to that once in a while. His personality also suggests ti me a stubbornness in finding offense with the Left that hates him so he appears to appease the "alt-right " since that is the only large bloc that doesn't hate him.

That doesn't mean he's not controlled, not a puppet or is independently acting (on his own). I just can't conclude one way or another.

But, it's clear, black and white, and transparent to you and I don't agree with that view.

B) I might agree with single issues here and there. It doesn't make me a "Trumpster." A broken clock is correct at least once a day, twice really (if no am/pm marker).

Even Democrats might say something I agree with and I will admit it. But, generally speaking, I said I find the Democrat/Republican schism to be fake and manufactured. We don't want to go back there, right? Maybe just accept there's no finding a common ground there?

I agree with more funding of healthcare and placing more importance on our condition but I admit that is bias and my own centric need. I don't believe leftists want that for altruistic reasons. I don't care if "right" politicians are not supporting policies like that as they are mostly neocons to me. That isn't the "right" politics that I subscribe to. It's mainstream right wing which I already described as part of an old system that most people follow.

C) My tinnitus means I have these views but at the end of the day, my suffering 'trumps' politics.

 

[PeteJ]

This is actually an important topic. What I'm suggesting is that a blind overreaction to the anti-MSM movement isn't the answer and is just as, if not more, anti-intellectual. Believe it or not, most younger people don't get their news from CNN. I feel like (particularly right wingers) like to straw man and make it seem like everyone on the left just nods their head to CNN all day. I have never met someone who fully agreed with the MSM. They are flawed -- we agree.

Where I draw an issue is that I am just as cynical when I turn to other media sources. I get most of my news online, and I try to listen to a variety of viewpoints. I've listened to David Pakman, Kyle Kulinski, TYT, Ben Shapiro, Sam Seder, Coleman Hughes, Sam Harris, and others. As you can see from that list, some of those people disagree so much that they hold never-ending smear campaigns against each other. That list includes the full spectrum on basically every issue.

But, whenever I listen to these people to get their perspective, I don't start with the mindset of "This is gold! It's not CNN." I start with the mindset of "let me see what this is and judge it critically." By doing this, I have found that Ben Shapiro is a fraud, TYT is left wing sensationalism, Pakman (my favorite) is too much of a centrist sometimes, Kulinski is horrible at game theory and strategy, Sam Seder is a troll, Sam Harris has a fragile ego.

And yes, CNN is loaded with BS and misleading news. I do not disagree with you about getting news from a variety of sources. I guess I just disagree on the "enlightenment" thing. It sounds kind of hokey and anti-intellectual.

For whatever reason, you seem to only call out indoctrination on the left. I guess I just don't get it.

Because the mainstream is 90% or so center/left.
The 'right' is mostly 'controlled fake crap.' For e.g., I don't care about Fox. It's not a worthwhile 'right' source to me even if some reporters or news from them might have valid points. But, the majority of both sides are the same or the division is manufactured.

 

[Zugzug]

Because the mainstream is 90% or so center/left.
The 'right' is mostly 'controlled fake crap.' For e.g., I don't care about Fox. It's not a worthwhile 'right' source to me even if some reporters or news from them might have valid points. But, the majority of both sides are the same or the division is manufactured.

Fair enough. I would argue that even if you don't care about Fox personally, you over inflate how many left wingers live by the word of CNN, and under inflate how many people live by the words of Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson has the highest-rated program in Cable News history:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markjo...d-program-in-cable-news-history/#4e1ced9f6195

There's real talk that he could run for president in 2024. Tucker Carlson (and Hannity) are known to advise Trump directly. I respect that you don't care about their content, but acknowledging their influence as State news is a whole different topic. I'm not sure if it's because you live in Canada so there's a different vibe. Carlson often paints this picture like he's just some hidden, average guy who's giving an opinion. He often talks about "the media." It's a sham; he is the quintessential media elite. When he looks into the camera with those puppy dog eyes, it's so sad to see. It's indoctrination 101. Where I live, Fox is real. Anyways, I am learning more about your perspective, which is nice.

 

[FGG]

I don't know if I can believe you and wasn't going to reply but I will against my better judgment. I wholeheartedly disagree with your position.
There's any number of links about Twitter censoring Trump.
The only point that I can acknowledge is that it's a private company: "they can do what they want."
It's funny that leftists support corporations when it comes to censorship and if they support leftist/communist positions. But, I digress.

Of course, they can do what they want but so what? I am talking about universal principles and a collaborative effort and agenda of censorship of "wrong think." This "monopolization" of leftist political views and povs is still disconcerting when 99% of these companies are the main video/social media sites and can influence people's perceptions and beliefs. From MSM to social media etc.

I have to look at alternatives for a different view and those are vilified and attacked.

As for Fox, they are called "right" news sources but it's "pretend" for me. Controlled opposition and a fun "right" source for the masses to continue the charade.

The Trump Twitter Chronicles:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/2...sident-trump-for-saying-hell-enforce-the-law/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnbb...r-the-upcoming-election-heres-why-im-worried/
https://thehill.com/policy/technolo...et-on-protesters-for-including-threat-of-harm

Etc. take your pick of links or find another.

If you are suggesting I'm lying about not being the one who reported you, that person outed themselves in this thread if you scroll back far enough.

I think you are generalizing a bit about "leftists" and treat them as a really homogeneous group. My view, for instance, isn't that censorship should only support the left. Right leaning corporations can say whatever they want, but as a consumer I have a right to respond to that statement just as you can boycott Twitter and use Parlor instead.

 

[Zugzug]

Unreal. Freeze my body and wake me up when humans are smarter and there's a cure for hyperacusis. One perk of hyperausis is that I have to use closed captioning and not listen to this imbecile's voice. Those bar graphs look like something you give a 2 year old to explain COVID.

Some may argue that he's just a puppet. Except people worship this guy and take his direct lead.

 

[PeteJ]

Some may argue that he's just a puppet. Except people worship this guy and take his direct lead.

If all you believe is the official narrative regarding COVID-19, then your conclusion is common.

 

[Zugzug]

I'm worried Joe Biden might fall asleep on the job.

I would prefer that to constantly inflaming every issue 24/7. I actually love when Trump golfs; it's my favorite thing about him. Just like Trump golfs a lot, I hope Biden naps a lot if he wins.

 

[FGG]

I guess Kanye is still in, though it appears he may have other motives after all.

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/go...idential-bid-in-potential-spoiler-effort-nyt/

 

[PeteJ]

If you are suggesting I'm lying about not being the one who reported you, that person outed themselves in this thread if you scroll back far enough.

I think you are generalizing a bit about "leftists" and treat them as a really homogeneous group. My view, for instance, isn't that censorship should only support the left. Right leaning corporations can say whatever they want, but as a consumer I have a right to respond to that statement just as you can boycott Twitter and use Parlor instead.

I was not suggesting that. I know who you are talking about. It seemed like more than one and a bit rash, imho.

Anyway, I will respond to your points. I don't think there are 'right leaning' corporations. That sounds funny to me. Want to name some who you think are?

I think corporations are not inherently right nor left but they choose a political position on spectrum

None of it matters though. There could be a video of Trumping raping a 13 year old and it would get called fake news by his supporters. Trump himself could say it's the truth and that he likes young women and his supporters would justify it. This is how a cult works. There's no point in trying to change the minds of die hard Trump supporters. There are bigger fish to fry like turning out vote, not suppressing mail-in voting, holding a fair election, etc.

The same as the cult here for Clinton.

 

[just1morething]

I would prefer that to constantly inflaming every issue 24/7. I actually love when Trump golfs; it's my favorite thing about him. Just like Trump golfs a lot, I hope Biden naps a lot if he wins.

I don't have a Twitter account following Trump. I've been preoccupied with my tinnitus. I've seen some of his press conferences though.

 

[PeteJ]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/revo...rty-endorses-democrat-joe-biden-for-president
Communists support Biden. No surprise.

 

[FGG]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/revo...rty-endorses-democrat-joe-biden-for-president
Communists support Biden. No surprise.

Hell of an endorsement:

"Biden is not 'better' than Trump, in any meaningful way — except that he is not Trump and is not part of the move to consolidate and enforce fascist rule, with everything that means"

 

[Zugzug]

The same as the cult here for Clinton.

Respectfully, there is simply zero truth to this statement. We just had a discussion above about how Bill is probably a rapist. As far as Hillary goes, I am probably the biggest shill in the whole thread, but even I didn't pick her as my first choice in 2016. I'm only adamant that she was worthy of voting for over Trump. If 2016 was Hillary versus Romney, I wouldn't have cared about protest votes at all. You seem to not like when people assume you are a Trump apologist, but there is definitely more evidence of that than people here shilling hard for Clinton.

 

[FGG]

I was not suggesting that. I know who you are talking about. It seemed like more than one and a bit rash, imho.

Anyway, I will respond to your points. I don't think there are 'right leaning' corporations. That sounds funny to me. Want to name some who you think are?

I think corporations are not inherently right nor left but they choose a political position on spectrum

The same as the cult here for Clinton.

Corporations whose leadership lean right (off the top of my head):

Hobby Lobby and Chick-fil-a.

 

[all to gain]

I wonder when Trump will be assassinated?

It wouldn't surprise me if his own intelligence services performed the act.

 

[Zugzug]

I wonder when Trump will be assassinated?

It wouldn't surprise me if his own intelligence services performed the act.

I hate Trump, but this would be really, really bad for the country. A far better outcome is for him to retire, golf, and tweet depraved things all day.

 

[aot]

I hate Trump, but this would be really, really bad for the country.

Exactly. Aside from my belief that very, very few people are so devoid of anything worthwhile or decent that they deserve death, offing Trump would make him a martyr, an even bigger symbol for his supporters and people like them to rally behind.

"Strike me down and I'll become more powerful than you can ever imagine", or however the qoute goes.

 

[all to gain]

I hate Trump, but this would be really, really bad for the country. A far better outcome is for him to retire, golf, and tweet depraved things all day.

I agree, but the question still is: when will he be assassinated (and who will do it)?

 

[Christiaan]

Are you asking me? I am not a Trump fan, remember? Imho, I don't know where his real political position is. I explained this before. But, my critique was with hypocrisy, censorship and political spin which, from my p.o.v. is getting more aggressive and oppressive.

I tried using COVID-19 and BLM as two examples but from what I perceived, it was largely ignored here. It was my conclusion that it was of partisan politics reasons.

My question was directed @ajc. But sure, you can add something to the mix. And no, I had no idea that you were supporting Trump or not. Just wanted to know if he beliefs that Trump would be a better president than Biden and why / if he wonders how a Trump 2nd term would look like from a speculative point of view.

I have just read a review of this book ''It was all a lie: hoe the Republican Party became Donald Trump'', by Stuart Stevens , who was part of the party establishment until Trump came along and won the GOP primaries. Stevens tells the story that Donald Trump (and his platform) is actually the refined product of years and years of self-delusion (e.g. trickle down economics = lower taxes for corporations and the rich and it will eventually lead to more hiring and higher wages for lower classes) and hypocrisy (e.g. bail outs for the rich, budget cuts for social projects for the poor) in the party. Trump has just made it clear what the GOP stands for.

Here's a summary of the book:

''This is not a book about how Donald J. Trump hijacked the Republican Party and changed it into something else. Stevens shows how Trump is in fact the natural outcome of five decades of hypocrisy and self-delusion, dating all the way back to the civil rights legislation of the early 1960s. Stevens shows how racism has always lurked in the modern GOP's DNA, from Goldwater's opposition to desegregation to Ronald Reagan's welfare queens and states' rights rhetoric. He gives an insider's account of the rank hypocrisy of the party's claims to embody "family values," and shows how the party's vaunted commitment to fiscal responsibility has been a charade since the 1980s. When a party stands for nothing, he argues, it is only natural that it will be taken over by the loudest and angriest voices in the room.''

''It Was All a Lie is not just an indictment of the Republican Party, but a candid and often lacerating mea culpa. Stevens is not asking for pity or forgiveness; he is simply telling us what he has seen firsthand. He helped to create the modern party that kneels before a morally bankrupt con man and now he wants nothing more than to see what it has become burned to the ground.''

And here's the review:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/02/it-was-all-a-lie-review-trump-republican-party

 

[Christiaan]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/revo...rty-endorses-democrat-joe-biden-for-president
Communists support Biden. No surprise.

''In August 2020, Avakian officially endorsed voting for Joe Biden for President of the United States, stating that a vote for Biden was purely a vote to oust Trump/Pence, further explaining, "This is not because Biden (and the Democratic Party in general) have suddenly become something other than what they are: representatives and instruments of this exploitative, oppressive, and literally murderous system of capitalism-imperialism.''

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Avakian

He's not a big fan of JB; he only sees him as the lesser of two evils.

 

[Watasha]

They were neighbors and Epstein/Maxwell spent a lot of time at Mar-A-Lago.
Trump has, in interviews previous to his 2016 campaign, stated that he and Jeffrey were friends and had been close for 15 years.

Trump has also stated that he was aware that Jeff liked younger women.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/04/tru...tein-from-mar-a-lago-for-hitting-on-girl.html

 

[Christiaan]

Exactly. Aside from my belief that very, very few people are so devoid of anything worthwhile or decent that they deserve death, offing Trump would make him a martyr, an even bigger symbol for his supporters and people like them to rally behind.

"Strike me down and I'll become more powerful than you can ever imagine", or however the qoute goes.

Certainly true in my book. We had a popular right wing populist & politician (Pim Fortuyn). He was quite popular by white rich people and the blue collar workers who feel disowned by the left wing parties, but also considered unpopular by a lot because of his efforts to erase article one of the constitution (Art. 1 = thou shalt not discriminate people on the basis of their origins, their skin colour, etc.). He was murdered right before the general elections in 2001 by a psychological nut job. There were a lot of people who were convinced that Fortuyn was murdered because of a left wing conspiracy (the bullet came from the left, is a phrase that you could read in every right wing newspaper and internet site)

His political legacy was that a certain amount of his ideas were incorporated by a lot of rightwing parties and some people are proud to call themselves a ''Fortunist' (a reference to Pim Fortuyn's populist ideology). Even now, there are right wing politicians like Thierry Baudet and Geert Wilders who say that they and their parties want to continue Pim Fortuyn's legacy.

 

[Watasha]

If Biden acted on Twitter the way Trump has over the past 4 years, I would demand that he was impeached, removed from office, imprisoned. You are making "fear of censorship" look totally insane. The guy has threatened NUCLEAR WAR over Twitter. I just can't believe how contrarian you are about Trump, while maintaining that you're right down the middle. You remind me of the people like Dave Rubin who claim to be a "classical liberal" just to make their criticisms seem more valuable. Your hypothetical makes no sense. It's such a straw man. Every single person in this thread would be furious if Biden acted like Trump. If Biden acted like Trump, I would not vote.

Sometimes Trump Derangement syndrome is really just rationally hating a pathetic leader.

But yeah, I disagree with you, but as long as you are respectful, I don't care what you post.

What is wrong with telling a rouge foreign leader threatening your nation with nuclear war that you also have nukes and plenty of them?