2020 US Presidential Election

[Christiaan]

Let's gain a little perspective here. In the early days before COVID-19 hit our shores we all saw how it was ravaging Wuhan. I remember a lot of controversy over whether China was under-reporting its deaths and running a massive cremation program to contain it sort of like something out of a zombie movie. I don't know who out there was seriously buying the idea that COVID-19 was just "the sniffles" the way Trump characterized it, but they were not too bright. Point being that the lethality of COVID-19 was not some sort of privileged information that only Trump knew about. The problem had to do with the fact that Trump commands followers like Big Brother. If he says 2+2=5 then a lot of people believe it.

What you say is correct: people in high positions have a tremendous impact on what their followers think and do. However, the virus does not discriminate between Trump followers and those who didn't vote for him. The federal government and WHO didn't do a lot to impose lockdowns (even actively undermining it), financially support hospitals in states where there's a lack of beds, medication + breathing machines, promote misinformation via tons of media outlets about the severity of the virus, attack institutions like CDC and health experts with false claims about stuff like hydroxychloroquine, and also imposed deregulation in nursing home emergency and preparedness standard, which killed a lot of elderly people in states like New York and Florida.

You can bet that not all of those victims were Trump supporters, who may or may not have themselves to blame for not wearing a facemask for example. Most of them fell victim due to lack of structural and financial support of the federal government, who were more concerned with keeping the economy nice and smooth, as it is their selling point for the next presidential elections.

If Woodward did his job as a serious journalist, as some consider him an authority in his field, his publication might have stirred the public opinion about Trump and his mishandling of the virus in another direction, which could have political implications (Trump pressured to change mind & take more serious action by public opinion and congress if he want to make any chance in next elections ).

 

[Luman]

I'd like to thank the following latte drinking, wealthy young social register types, who hate Trump, and have gotten themselves arrested for rioting and creating $100,000 in broken windows, including other damages in NYC, by taking time off from their Yacht and country clubs, to destroy any residual credibility, real or imagined, that the lunatic fringe left, which now controls the Democratic Party, clings to. They acted on behalf of their group, the Afrikan Black Panther Party. I assume that it goes without saying, that they all support Biden and Harris, in the upcoming election, as well.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/09/inside-the-privileged-lives-of-protesters-busted-for-manhattan-riots/

The incident, the other day, in lower NYC.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/05/black-lives-matter-protesters-riot-in-manhattan-cause-100000-damage/

 

[Christiaan]

Is it?

It surely depends on many factors, eg the journalist's political affiliations, possibility of monetary gain, their ethics, country of allegiance and so on? Some don't blow the whistle until they see it as being in their best interest. Some never do it.

Given Woodward's history, people might think he would be very much aware of the political implications of keeping secrets like the Watergate scandal from the public. In the time of Nixon's presidency, he didn't decide to sit on the information 7 months just to write a juicy book. No, he saw that spying on the Democratic Party(&thus manipulating the Dem primaries between Muskie & McGovern) was an attack on democracy itself & quickly began to work with fellow journalist Carl Bernstein in uncovering & reporting the story about Nixon and his henchman in The Washington Post. He later co-wrote a book about this after all was said and done, called ''All the president's men''.

Link: https://www.history.com/topics/1970s/watergate

Now the thing is that Woodward has a tape that contains information that could have a huge impact as what was given to him by ''Deep Throat'', maybe even more so, as it is not so much an attack on democracy, but more than that: we're talking about human lives here. Warning the public about Trump's intentions months ago could have swayed them and the GOP to put more pressure on Trump in changing course on the COVID-19 Strategy. Woodward failed to do so, because book sales matters more to him than human lives.

 

[Born To Slay]

I'd like to thank the following latte drinking, wealthy young social register types, who hate Trump, and have gotten themselves arrested for rioting and creating $100,000 in broken windows, including other damages in NYC, by taking time off from their Yacht and country clubs, to destroy any residual credibility, real or imagined, that the lunatic fringe left, which now controls the Democratic Party, clings to. They acted on behalf of their group, the Afrikan Black Panther Party. I assume that it goes without saying, that they all support Biden and Harris, in the upcoming election, as well.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/09/inside-the-privileged-lives-of-protesters-busted-for-manhattan-riots/

The incident, the other day, in lower NYC.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/05/black-lives-matter-protesters-riot-in-manhattan-cause-100000-damage/

Can you find any pro riot comments from any elected Democrats at the federal level?

if these fringe elements control the party, it should be easy.

 

[all to gain]

Given Woodward's history, people might think he would be very much aware of the political implications of keeping secrets like the Watergate scandal from the public. In the time of Nixon's presidency, he didn't decide to sit on the information 7 months just to write a juicy book. No, he saw that spying on the Democratic Party(&thus manipulating the Dem primaries between Muskie & McGovern) was an attack on democracy itself & quickly began to work with fellow journalist Carl Bernstein in uncovering & reporting the story about Nixon and his henchman in The Washington Post. He later co-wrote a book about this after all was said and done, called ''All the president's men''.

Link: https://www.history.com/topics/1970s/watergate

Now the thing is that Woodward has a tape that contains information that could have a huge impact as what was given to him by ''Deep Throat'', maybe even more so, as it is not so much an attack on democracy, but more than that: we're talking about human lives here. Warning the public about Trump's intentions months ago could have swayed them and the GOP to put more pressure on Trump in changing course on the COVID-19 Strategy. Woodward failed to do so, because book sales matters more to him than human lives.

My answer wasn't in specific regard to Woodward, but in regard to your assertion that, "It's the job of a journalist to blow the whistle when lives are at stake."

I am still questioning that assertion.

 

[Lilah]

What do people make of that couple (Mark & Patricia McCloskey), who brandished firearms when protesters trespassed on their property in St. Louis, being charged with felony for ostensibly defending their home, property and themselves?

I know 24 households where they live wrote a letter condemning them for their actions. However, there are 94 households in the neighbourhood (Portland and Westmoreland Places), so 70 households it seems disagreed (or didn't want to get involved).

What would you have done in the same circumstances, or if people (even if only one, not the 100s as in this case) trespassed on your property?

Yes, the McCloskeys had every right to defend their lives. We already know that the "peaceful" protestors have looted, vandalized, set fires, and have critically assaulted people. The McClosekeys feared for their lives as they were greatly outnumbered and protesters not only are they physically violent but made violent threats (and so you never really know if they will act on their threats, such as "kill them!"). However, the McCloskeys should only fire if their lives were endangered such as physical contact or shots being fired. Vandalism is a big property loss but such expenses should be covered under home owners/business insurance, and the scum who vandalize should definitely face years in prison.

 

[Luman]

What do people make of that couple (Mark & Patricia McCloskey), who brandished firearms when protesters trespassed on their property in St. Louis, being charged with felony for ostensibly defending their home, property and themselves?

I know 24 households where they live wrote a letter condemning them for their actions. However, there are 94 households in the neighbourhood (Portland and Westmoreland Places), so 70 households it seems disagreed (or didn't want to get involved).

What would you have done in the same circumstances, or if people (even if only one, not the 100s as in this case) trespassed on your property?

I would have had precautions set up in such a way, that trespassers would be highly unlikely to pick my property, to tread upon, illegally.

 

[all to gain]

I would have had precautions set up in such a way, that trespassers would be highly unlikely to pick my property, to tread upon, illegally.

I'm getting images of Southern Comfort and Home Alone style booby traps. With a big sign saying PROPERTY BOOBY TRAPPED. Am I right?

 

[Luman]

I'm getting images of Southern Comfort and Home Alone style booby traps. With a big sign saying PROPERTY BOOBY TRAPPED. Am I right?

You can build a fence, put cameras up high, have a large dog or dogs, NRA stickers or signs, "Absolutely NO Trespassing" signs, etc. One guy in my neighborhood has a large "MIA" flag, regarding the VietNam solders who are still unaccounted for. Just enough information to make a potential invader or trespasser, think twice, and choose an easier target.

 

[all to gain]

You can build a fence, put cameras up high, have a large dog or dogs, NRA stickers or signs, No Trespassing signs, etc. Just enough to make a potential invader or trespasser, think twice and choose an easier target.

They must have had some type of security in place surely, as their house is worth a fair bit. Surprised they didn't have any security guards (or maybe they did?) or like you say a big dog. Whatever, loads of people coming onto your property must be a scary thing to happen.

 

[GlennS]

I'm getting images of Southern Comfort and Home Alone style booby traps. With a big sign saying PROPERTY BOOBY TRAPPED. Am I right?

Plus confederate flags. LOTS of confederate flags.

 

[Luman]

Can you find any pro riot comments from any elected Democrats at the federal level?

if these fringe elements control the party, it should be easy.

The Democrats will continue to ban religious gatherings, parties, going to the beach, etc., but not demonstrations, in places that are affected by Covid. What kind of message is this sending out? They don't have to say anything, their policies speak for them.

I don't believe that a single riot was carried out by the original Black Panther Party, in the late sixties, or early seventies, yet we have adult whites, children the highest income, most respected upper class families, who claim to be in the Afrikan Black Panther Party, rioting in Manhattan and causing $100,000 worth of damage. Similar scenarios have happened, elsewhere. There is something seriously wrong with this picture, and the Democratic Party.

Trump is smart, he invites Democrats to leave these losers, and join him. The Democrats, on the other hand, not only don't try to lure voters from Trump, they actively insult them, and discourage them from switching to voting Democratic. I will never vote Democrat again, and I'm sure that there's many people, who are now deciding the same, or will very shortly.

 

[all to gain]

I'm getting images of Southern Comfort and Home Alone style booby traps. With a big sign saying PROPERTY BOOBY TRAPPED. Am I right?

Going completely off thread, but having mentioned the film Southern Comfort (which I enjoyed), I had a quick look on Wikipedia and saw this:

"In the late 1980s Iranian state TV IRIB broadcast the film, under the name "Operation Lagoon" (Amaliyate Mordab). The film was shortened to 95 minutes, and the story was changed to show a group of US Army soldiers who opposed the Vietnam War are sent to a mission among man-hunters, equipped only with blanks. The soldiers are killed by man-hunters one after another as planned by US authorities. In the end, when the remaining two soldiers suppose a US Army truck is approaching to save them, the picture fades and a voice of constant shooting is heard, indicating the US authorities killed all the soldiers they intended to kill. The film was a huge hit among the Iranian audience. The Iranian film critics believed that the IRIB censored version had made more sense considering the American government atrocities overseas."

Talk about how easy it is to change content to fit one's agenda.

 

[Born To Slay]

The Democrats will continue to ban religious gatherings, parties, going to the beach, etc., but not demonstrations, in places that are affected by Covid. What kind of message is this sending out? They don't have to say anything, their policies speak for them.

I don't believe that a single riot was carried out by the original Black Panther Party, in the late sixties, or early seventies, yet we have adult whites, children the highest income, most respected upper class families, who claim to be in the Afrikan Black Panther Party, rioting in Manhattan and causing $100,000 worth of damage. Similar scenarios have happened, elsewhere. There is something seriously wrong with this picture, and the Democratic Party.

Trump is smart, he invites Democrats to leave these losers, and join him. The Democrats, on the other hand, not only don't try to lure voters from Trump, they actively insult them, and discourage them from switching to voting Democratic. I will never vote Democrat again, and I'm sure that there's many people, who are now deciding the same, or will very shortly.

Um, where in the country are religious gatherings, beaches, etc still totally closed? I live on Long Island where Andrew Cuomo is governor and even here these things have all been open for months with safety protocols. I've been going to the beach every weekend since June. I'm actually going later today. Most Democratic states are mostly open and have been for a while.

Now you could definitely argue that some localities have been too lax in these violent altercations but in terms of protests, let's not forget that Democrats also didn't shut down conservative protests all over the country aimed at forcing the country to reopen. Even though some of those people were armed.

It also needs to be said that most of the demonstrations have been peaceful (93% in fact https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/) and so it's only natural that Democratic officials, while condemning violence, generally support the right to Peacefully protest. Just as they did when the right wingers were protesting state Capitols.

As far as Trump being smart, if he were that smart he wouldn't be losing in every swing state and nationally right now. So his efforts to get people to join him are struggling to say the least. And if Biden wasn't trying to get moderate Republican voters, why did he let Republicans speak at the DNC?

 

[Zugzug]

Trump is smart, he invites Democrats to leave these losers, and join him. The Democrats, on the other hand, not only don't try to lure voters from Trump, they actively insult them, and discourage them from switching to voting Democratic. I will never vote Democrat again, and I'm sure that there's many people, who are now deciding the same, or will very shortly.

This is (anecdotal) evidence of exactly what I've said in the past about Hillary's "deplorable' line being an excuse. Joe Biden has tried so hard to win over the moderate Republican vote; he had John Kasich speak at the convention. He has put out statements -- not only condemning rioting -- but also condemning anarchy (as in, even the thought of disorder).

I can't think of anything more delusional than thinking that Trump is trying harder to invite Democrats than Biden is trying to win over Republicans. At least 95% of the Trump ideology is just about owning the libs.

Please, my friend, just have the decency to say that you love Trump. Don't tell your friends and family members that it's their fault. You are simply going to vote for Trump no matter what.

The reason why I am making this point is because Trump voters love to play victim while complaining that others are doing the same. If it's such a "majority" that love Trump, why does every Trump voter feel the need to act so oppressed?

 

[all to gain]

Trump's going to win.

I base this on nothing except women's intituion.

P.S. I'm not a woman.

 

[GlennS]

Trump supporters aren't really capable of advocating their position in good faith. Their arguments never really amount to more than ad homs, whataboutisms, and flat out "u mad bro?" trolling. Once you realize who you're dealing with it's best to just ignore them.

 

[all to gain]

Trump supporters aren't really capable of advocating their position in good faith. Their arguments never really amount to more than ad homs, whataboutisms, and flat out "u mad bro?" trolling. Once you realize who you're dealing with it's best to just ignore them.

Except Trump may well win (like he did last time), so hard to ignore the winning side's opinions.

 

[Luman]

Trump supporters aren't really capable of advocating their position in good faith. Their arguments never really amount to more than ad homs, whataboutisms, and flat out "u mad bro?" trolling. Once you realize who you're dealing with it's best to just ignore them.

The ironic thing is, the Democrats, by constantly mocking Trump voters, are doing the exact thing that will help get him elected. By the insults, their outright rejection of the idea of luring Republicans to the Democratic side, the Dems are only helping their opponent to win another victory. Trump, on the other hand, has been friendly to Democratic voters, and asked them to join him. The Democrats laugh at this, but I have a very strong feeling that the person who laughs last, in November, will be Trump - and the Democrats will have nobody to blame, but themselves.

 

[all to gain]

The Democrats laugh at this, but I have a very strong feeling that the person who laughs last, in November, will be Trump - and the Democrats will have nobody to blame, but themselves.

 

[Born To Slay]

The ironic thing is, the Democrats, by constantly mocking Trump voters, are doing the exact thing that will help get him elected. By the insults, their outright rejection of the idea of luring Republicans to the Democratic side, the Dems are only helping their opponent to win another victory. Trump, on the other hand, has been friendly to Democratic voters, and asked them to join him. The Democrats laugh at this, but I have a very strong feeling that the person who laughs last, in November, will be Trump - and the Democrats will have nobody to blame, but themselves.

If the Dems weren't trying to be appeal to republicans, why did they have a Republican as a key speaker at the DNC?

John Kasich might not be friends with Trump but he was a popular conservative, Republican governor and he endorsed Joe Biden at the DNC. They had other former Republicans as well. How much harder do you want them to try? Because we're not going to ignore the fact that some of Trump's voters do act like a cult.

 

[FGG]

The ironic thing is, the Democrats, by constantly mocking Trump voters, are doing the exact thing that will help get him elected. By the insults, their outright rejection of the idea of luring Republicans to the Democratic side, the Dems are only helping their opponent to win another victory. Trump, on the other hand, has been friendly to Democratic voters, and asked them to join him. The Democrats laugh at this, but I have a very strong feeling that the person who laughs last, in November, will be Trump - and the Democrats will have nobody to blame, but themselves.

Nah. There are a lot of Republicans who are being welcomed, otherwise the Lincoln Party wouldn't be so popular.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/republicans-voting-for-biden-not-trump.html

Meanwhile, every Democrat is "far left" to Trump and will destroy religion, the whole country and even windows on buildings due to environmental policies in one of his crazier rants.

 

[Luman]

If the Dems weren't trying to be appeal to republicans, why did they have a Republican as a key speaker at the DNC?

John Kasich might not be friends with Trump but he was a popular conservative, Republican governor and he endorsed Joe Biden at the DNC. They had other former Republicans as well. How much harder do you want them to try? Because we're not going to ignore the fact that some of Trump's voters do act like a cult.

John Kasich, I don't know what is going through his head. Perhaps he's angry that he isn't in the White House. Maybe he wants to switch parties.

Trump is doing a magnificent job of bringing about peace in the Middle East, Serbia and Kosovo, and Afghanistan. He cares about the rest of the world, not just America. He has done things, that no other presidents, Democrat or Republican, or Europeans, have been able to accomplish. This has the Republicans worried, as Trump is not their type of leader. He's better than the rest of them.

 

[all to gain]

If Trump wins, will those who voted Democrat get behind their president for the good of the country? Even if in only a few small ways, ie there must be some things that he has done that aren't all that bad, even if you dislike the man?

Also, if he does win, what excuses will the Democrats and their voters come out with?

As an outsider, you're all up shit creek without a paddle.

 

[PeteJ]

Blah, blah, blah... this thread has become really pathetic. It's one-sided biased anti-Trump rambling while ignoring and overlooking anything negative brought up towards the Marxist democrats.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrats-struggling-address-riots-deleted-tweet

 

[GlennS]

Except Trump may well win (like he did last time), so hard to ignore the winning side's opinions.

Ignore in the sense that there's no use engaging, not that their voting behavior doesn't impact us. I'm ready to split the country up into ideological zones at this point. Irreconcilable differences.

If Trump wins, will those who voted Democrat get behind their president for the good of the country?

The thing to do would be to mount a fresh impeachment campaign as there are plenty of additional impeachable offenses to deal with.

I mean, Nixon started the EPA and started the thawing process with China with his visit but also resigned in disgrace. A president doesn't have to be all bad to be an existential threat to the country.

 

[FGG]

He has done things, that no other presidents, Democrat or Republican, or Europeans, have been able to accomplish. This has the Republicans worried, as Trump is not their type of leader. He's better than the rest of them.

Lmao. Now I know why you think half of women (even married ones) would sleep with Trump.

 

[FGG]

If Trump wins, will those who voted Democrat get behind their president for the good of the country? Even if in only a few small ways, ie there must be some things that he has done that aren't all that bad, even if you dislike the man?

Also, if he does win, what excuses will the Democrats and their voters come out with?

As an outsider, you're all up shit creek without a paddle.

If Biden loses it will be for 2 reasons:

1) Voter suppression worked.
2) The DNC ran the most centrist candidate possible and it's hard to gather enthusiasm around him (except to vote against Trump).

Sadly I don't think the DNC will learn from #2 at all.

Can you define what you mean by "get behind him" if he wins?

 

[Zugzug]

Also, if he does win, what excuses will the Democrats and their voters come out with?

Seriously, you have the nerve to ask that after Trump says he may not accept the results?

EDIT: Actually, Trump is already making excuses (blaming mail-in voting getting in the way of voter suppression).

 

[all to gain]

Seriously, you have the nerve to ask that after Trump says he may not accept the results?

Isn't that a whataboutism like GlennS keeps talking about that the Republicans use as an argument, i.e. not answering the question and saying that the others do it too?

So, actually, supporters of others do it too...