Member- Aug 28, 2019
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This is quite interesting. According to this, even though Trump interupted Biden lots of times, Biden spoke the most. Wonder if there are any stats on name calling etc?
2020 US Presidential Election
- Thread starter Born To Slay
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- Aug 28, 2019
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It seems Trump has denounced the group now. So, again, nothing to see here.Can you quote the whole post, so I can see what I was saying in context?
Regardless, I don't see many politicians denouncing those who support them. It's par for the course.
Nothing to see here
I can't remember, did Biden denounce Antifa and friends?
- Aug 5, 2019
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When you are on the national stage, trying to win over votes in a highly televised debate, and the moderator asks you to condemn white supremacy, that is a soft ball down the middle.
I see people defending Trump (they did this after Charlottesville as well) by saying he "has denounced group X later on." Yes, but consider how easy it was to do originally. Then ask yourself, if it was so easy and he still didn't do it, why not?
Literally all he had to say was "White supremacy is abhorrent and I condemn it." I watched the debate, falling asleep, with subtitles on (no sound), unable to focus, and even I quickly thought of an easy response from Trump. Instead he responded by saying that the Proud Boys should "stand down and stand by."
To say there's "nothing to see here" is way too forgiving for something so outlandish and fascist that happened just hours ago, all coming from a person with a history of this language. Biden pretty much never misses an opportunity to condemn violence. That doesn't stop conservatives from saying it doesn't count. I want you to imagine if Biden told a group to stand down and stand by -- then apologizing the next day. Would all be forgotten in Trump world? Would conservatives think that it was unfair to hold it against him?
Objectivity is not considering all sides equally. If one person is saying 1+1=2.1, another is saying 1+1 = 5, and another is saying 1+1 = a number that we can't figure out because all information is a lie, sure, technically everyone is wrong. But the objective person would focus on improving the 1+1=2.1 error.
As far as the question of whether Biden will condemn left wing violence, here's an easy answer:
Biden condemns Antifa, violence 'across the board' amid riots
Not both sides. From the article:
How much more clear can we possibly be? Violence is bad.
He didn't though. He just said he didn't know who the Proud Boys were which I find spurious since they have been part of every recent protest.
- Aug 28, 2019
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Nah! There really is nothing to see here.
I just see it as part of the political game. I don't get triggered by anything anybody says. Biden or Trump.
If he people doesn't denounce these groups to your satisfaction that's up to you, but I don't lose sleep about it.
From watching Trump's post debate interview he seems to say he just wants the police to be able to do their job and that that all groups must step down. If you don't like his words or way of putting it, I can't help that.
He's just hedging his bets and trying not to alienate people who may vote for him by being ambiguous to some, which in his position and needing votes to win may be the smartest thing to do.
It doesn't mean it makes it right, it's just the way it is.
- Aug 28, 2019
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- Aug 5, 2019
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That's exactly everyone's point though. White supremacy groups should be alienated. You are basically saying it's not a deal breaker to have a wink-wink relationship with white supremacists, even if you may not worship the ideology yourself.
By the way, when Trump does the routine of "condemn the white supremacists the next morning," that is precisely what he is doing. He is giving a permission slip to moderates (capable of deluding themselves) to vote through it, while winking at the white supremacists.
- Apr 6, 2020
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These Japanese translators really didn't have the time of their lives with covering this debate:
I think the reason why Trump doesn't want to condemn White Supremacists and the Proud Boys properly is that if he does do that he knows he will lose voters.
Trump probably studied Biden's debate with Paul Ryan, where Biden interrupted Paul Ryan frequently and also took the laughing pill.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...yan-joe-bidens-interruptions-not-our-manners/
That probably explains why Trump decided to interrupt more and keep the environment off balance.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...yan-joe-bidens-interruptions-not-our-manners/
That probably explains why Trump decided to interrupt more and keep the environment off balance.
Actually, Biden doesn't believe in social distancing.
Watch: Joe Biden Violates Social Distancing When He Thinks He's Off Camera
Watch: Joe Biden Violates Social Distancing When He Thinks He's Off Camera
- Jan 25, 2013
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Biden's advisor Al Sharpton, in the Crown Heights riots in Brooklyn, indirectly caused the death of an innocent Jewish young man from England. If Biden accepts Sharpton's support, he is worse than Trump. People need to check the facts and history of Sharpton, whom Obama brought to the White House during his terms in office.
Then he claimed they don't exist.
Democrats have said that the violence and rioting is required. Harris was recently criticised for shrugging off BLM violence. Trump should ignore the White Supremacists question.
The Democrats obviously don't care about violence when left wing groups do it. BLM and Antifa have routinely and regularly been committing violence and the entire Democratic party has been ignoring it. Trying to condemn violence in a generic, vague way while ignoring the main responsible groups is disingenuous and evasive.
I agree it would be quite effortless to denounce white supremacy. I found it interesting that Trump asked Wallace to identify a group, obviously then Trump doesn't believe all groups identified by the Left as "white supremacist" are in fact white supremacist. So, one would deduce that Trump does consider certain groups to be white supremacists, and others not. I believe Trump doesn't want to denounce using the Left's definition of white supremacy, which is quite broad. The Left would probably classify the Rolling Thunder type, many of whom are Trump supporters, as white supremacists. A brief search of Proud Boys shows that many of them look like the Rolling Thunder type. Also, a few of Proud Boys leadership is black (Enrique Tarrio, etc.), suggesting they are not the Nazi/KKK type. I can see why Trump would be careful in who he calls white supremacist.
If Trump is quick to denounce, without a clear definition, he would be suggesting that many of his fervent supporters are "white supremacists," which is something he would not want. Moreover, the media/the Left would not let him rest even if he does so as they would build a new story that most Trump supporters are white supremacists, Trump even admitted so, etc. The narrative that Trump is a white supremacist would continue regardless.
Well with climate change and Covid it's kinda hard because the right wing positions (especially the climate) are just flat out crazy. Donald Trump had to be asked multiple times if he believed climate change was man made, is that left wing bias? I'd call that a reality bias. It's not Wallace's fault a major political party has dedicated itself to denying climate change. And it's not his fault that Trump is so back and forth on Covid either. Conspiracy theories aside, everyone agrees Covid is a serious problem and America's numbers are bad. What is Chris Wallace supposed to do? Give credence to conspiracy theorists or pretend 200k people didn't die? Pretend Trump isn't on record downplaying the coronavirus? He asked the questions in a way that's biased toward the science on these topics.
On abortion, it is a right. That's not left wing bias. That's Supreme Court said so and it'll be a right in America until the Supreme Court changes it's mind or there'd an amendment to the US constitution.
There are some things Wallace missed with Biden to be fair but it's not like he caught all of trumps lies either. I got the impression he tried his best with what he was given,
- Aug 5, 2019
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So let me understand this. Donald Trump, the most crass, non-politically correct, "tells it like it is", racially and ethnically insensitive human being now has the careful, intellectual prudence to be careful in who he calls a white supremacist?
Did he need to be "totally sure" before making up the story about a group of Muslims cheering on 9/11? Or calling Mexicans rapists? Or calling Obama the founder of ISIS? Or coming after profiling the Central Park Five (where he took out ads!), or calling African countries sh*thole countries, or suggesting that a Mexican judge couldn't do his job because of his race?
Why is he so careful and "nuanced" when it comes to differentiating between White Supremacy and White Supremacy Light?
Why do Trump supporters think it's a coincidence that we are so divided right now? Why are people so up in arms under this presidency? We just woke up pissed?
Honestly, I do understand intellectual balance. I get disagreements on tax policy, foreign policy, abortion, policing policy. How is saying Donald Trump is a piece of human sh*t controversial? How is it controversial to say that, objectively, he is a divider more than a uniter?
Politics is all about impressions, and what you're outlining is a president who is far more concerned about whether this or that group is mislabeled as white supremacist than, oh, I dunno, the actual pressing issue POLICE BRUTALITY. So it's not that some groups may be painted with a broad brush, which may in fact be true, but his skewed priorities, which are the epitome of (hate to say it) WHITE FRAGILITY. I hate that term but he is the poster-child of White Fragility as far as denying the problem and blame-shifting rather than accepting it.
What you're describing reflects a large chunk of Trump supporters, like evangelicals, who hold their nose and support him despite grab-by-the-p*ssy and stormy daniels. The ends justify the means and the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Really, this thread is proving to be a magnet and a litmus test for the alt-righters on this board and it's rather sad to see some show their true colors. This country is absolutely headed for a civil war with this degree of tribal insanity going on.
Anyway, it's better I start using the Ignore feature because, like Trump, trying to debate these people is like talking to a constantly yapping brick-wall.
How is it crazy? What's a "right wing" position? Is there just one "right wing" position? Only the "left wing " position(s) are valid?
Is my position "right wing?" Is it wrong? If you think so, who says? You? What makes you an expert?
I agree there is climate change but how much and how much "man" has contributed to it is debatable. There isn't a unanimous consensus on climate change despite what you want to assert or believe. Also, it's arguable that the change might be part of a cycle and is natural.
The other aspect of this is the contribution of "man" and whether people can significantly alter it and what the cost/impact is from our policies. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest many of the climate change "environmentalists" have ulterior motives (for power and profit). I find them shady and untrustworthy.
As for Covid, I perceive your perception or perspective as you believe only yours matters and anyone else's that deviates from that is "crazy" or worse. I find that insulting.
Would somebody please tell me about how many members there are of the "Proud Boys"? I have read that in 2018, the total number was 160. Is this group, which is not even secretive, really that dangerous? Do they not have a right to hold counter demonstrations, when BLM and similar organizations are taking advantage of the Covid situation, and rioting and destroying cities? Is there something wrong with being "proud"? Should they call themselves, "The Ashamed Boys"? There are welfare families with more children, than the number of members of this little group. Wake up, the Proud Boys are nothing more than a bunch of suburban kids who haven't done one millionth as much wrong, as some of the left wing groups have.
Trump has acknowledged police brutality and even signed an executive order addressing these issues:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-executive-order-policing-what-to-know
How else do you think he should address police brutality? Defund the Police?
Whites, and conservative minorities in general, don't mind talking about race, but don't want to spend hours and hours talking about race like the Left does especially since the Left thinks EVERYTHING is racist (for example, calling Wuhan virus is racist) and when the narrative turns to whites are bad, whites are evil, etc. The term "white fragility" actually applies to the Left, since they are too afraid to address inner city crime, too afraid to denounce protests/riots because it may appear racist, too afraid to identify the ethnicity of criminals in news articles, etc.
I don't know how many total members but their founder Gavin McGinnis proudly admits the point of the group is violence towards leftists. He even once advocated "choking trannys to death."
Whether a large group or not, their literal stated goal is violence, they don't sugar coat it.
Here is a recent consequence of that:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemima...y-arrested-on-six-felony-charges-in-portland/
- Jan 25, 2013
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I wonder if Biden violated social distancing by sniffing Trump's hair backstage at the debate? That would explain Trump's behavior. As for Biden telling Trump to "shut up" maybe Biden is "just a little bit jealous " of Trump.
- Aug 28, 2019
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That's what I'm saying. I think others are too, but we are coming at it from a different angle.
It's all part of the corrupt and unethical game of politics; one I look at from afar.
If I were a US citizen, I would refuse to vote for either of the candidates.
- Aug 28, 2019
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Nothing is needed, just look online at the most recent video.
He is blatantly not answering directly so as to not lose votes, but he does in a roundabout way.
He should definitely have not approached AC without a mask. Even if Cooper and he were both tested, it sends the wrong message.
- Aug 28, 2019
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I don't know much about the man, but I saw that he is married to a Native American lady and has both Canadian and British citizenship.
Name the so-called alt-righters in this thread. Go on.
You seem to be taking the moral high ground again. If you can't take the debate, then best you don't get involved or as you say put people on ignore. I personally would never get triggered like you do. What's the point? It's just a debate on a small forum of tinnitus sufferers. I don't ignore anyone.
Trump has been a tragedy for the US, and, for me, he must go. The democrats/left has done itself no favours in putting forward Biden as a candidate though.
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