2020 US Presidential Election

[FGG]

He/America need to keep up with China and Russia. These countries are far ahead in some areas, eg hypersonic weapons, glide vehicles, space warfare and so on. But these countries can do things much cheaper than the US due to low wages and lower safety standards.

Of course he may just be throwing money at the problem rather than seeing where money can be saved or spent more wisely.

This is all very well if you believe that other countries will keep to the Agreement. But they won't, eg especially the big players like China and Russia and maybe India.

Trump had some decent ideas, but his way of doing things and his own arrogance means he is easily 'played' by other world leaders, eg those of (again) China and Russia.

I don't think he's "played by" Putin, I think Putin has something on him or is benefiting him personally.

His recent HBO interview (on Axios) is a clue. The interviewer asked "Okay, even if there is debate about whether or not Russia had bounties on American soldiers, it is well established Russia helped fund the Taliban during our war with Afghanistan, how do you respond?"

And Trump said immediately without waffling a Russian talking point, which was "well, we once helped fund the Taliban against Russia!" Leaving out of course that this was in the 1970s when the US was trying to stop the spread of USSR and authoritarian communism. The interviewer said "but that was a different era!" and looked incredulous and Trump had no real response.

Pretty odd response for an "America first!" guy who says he loves our military.

He has also ridiculed most every world leader except Putin and even when Putin was caught mocking Trump with Assad, Trump said nothing. As thin skinned as he is, he kept silent.

Sure, he says empty things like "no one is tougher on Russia than me!", meanwhile keeping Russia's interest in his foreign policy plans.

It makes no sense unless Putin is paying him, helping him or blackmailing him.

 

[Zugzug]

Most people are interested in how their investments, IRA's etc. are doing.

Most people are in financial despair and afraid of things like being evicted. The stock market is an awful representation of the economy.

 

[aot]

It makes no sense unless Putin is paying him, helping him or blackmailing him.

Certainly not paying him. I mean, doesn't Trump already have all the money in the world?

Perhaps this is inappropriate to insinuate since I'm far from a professional in Psych, but maybe Putin fulfills a paternal need in Trump? He was a huge Daddy's boy as a kid, constantly seeking his approval. Perhaps he sees Putin in a similar fashion.

 

[Zugzug]

I don't think he's "played by" Putin, I think Putin has something on him or is benefiting him personally.

His recent HBO interview (on Axios) is a clue. The interviewer asked "Okay, even if there is debate about whether or not Russia had bounties on American soldiers, it is well established Russia helped fund the Taliban during our war with Afghanistan, how do you respond?"

And Trump said immediately without waffling a Russian talking point, which was "well, we once helped fund the Taliban against Russia!" Leaving out of course that this was in the 1970s when the US was trying to stop the spread of USSR and authoritarian communism. The interviewer said "but that was a different era!" and looked incredulous and Trump had no real response.

Pretty odd response for an "America first!" guy who says he loves our military.

He has also ridiculed most every world leader except Putin and even when Putin was caught mocking Trump with Assad, Trump said nothing. As thin skinned as he is, he kept silent.

Sure, he says empty things like "no one is tougher on Russia than me!", meanwhile keeping Russia's interest in his foreign policy plans.

It makes no sense unless Putin is paying him, helping him or blackmailing him.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist at all. But Putin is the only human being that Trump acts notably out of character around. It's extremely easy to see that there is some shady connection between the two.

Everyone who thinks I'm a nut job for saying this would fully agree if Obama acted this way. Picture Obama saying a bounty for US soldiers "never made it to his desk." Or taking Putin's side at Helsinki over his own government. Or even just his body language clamoring up around him and not around anyone else. It's easy to see.

 

[Zugzug]

Certainly not paying him. I mean, doesn't Trump already have all the money in the world?

Perhaps this is inappropriate to insinuate since I'm far from a professional in Psych, but maybe Putin fulfills a paternal need in Trump? He was a huge Daddy's boy as a kid, constantly seeking his approval. Perhaps he sees Putin in a similar fashion.

There are plenty of conspiracies over Trump getting rich by laundering dirty money. I think even if this is a step too far, Putin has to have something embarrassing about Trump personally. Trump acts like Putin has something on him that would humiliate him. I think this is more likely to be personal in nature than financial.

After all, Trump knows his base excuses his tax evasion as "being smart." They would probably find a way to justify shady business.

Trump cares so much about looking strong. It's like his favorite thing. I don't think this is just about getting Putin's approval. He wouldn't let himself look so weak if that was the case.

 

[all to gain]

@aot @FGG @Zugzug you all could be right.

I have long known that the Russians have something on Trump, and I consider this as being played too. How do I know this? Because unless someone has lead a truly squeaky clean life then anything can be used by the Russians against someone. Collecting kompromat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kompromat) as it is known is a long used tactic in Russian political circles. Hell, even if they didn't have anything they could just invent something.

But it is more than that, Trump actually likes Putin. In fact, Trump wants to be Putin. He is infatuated with him. Trump can only dream of the power that Putin has. @aot could well be right.

Trumps own arrogance is leading him deeper and deeper into a dark hole that he will never be able to get out of. When all is revealed, and it will be, we will know the full extent to which Trump has been manipulated by Putin. It's going to happen anyway, but Trump doesn't seem to see that.

 

[Zugzug]

But it is more than that, Trump actually likes Putin. In fact, Trump wants to be Putin. He is infatuated with him. Trump can only dream of the power that Putin has. @aot could well be right.

Trumps own arrogance is leading him deeper and deeper into a dark hole that he will never be able to get out of. When all is revealed, and it will be, we will know the full extent to which Trump has been manipulated by Putin. It's going to happen anyway, but Trump doesn't seem to see that.

I think it's one of those things where nothing will ever really come of it. The Mueller report (redacted version, at least) was not that persuasive. People are sort of tired of it.

I do think there's truth to the fact that Trump doesn't see Putin the way others do. Trump has sociopathic tendencies so I'm sure on some level he really does look up to Putin.

My hunch is that there is sexual blackmail on Trump. All of the rape accusations, being friends with Epstein, being quoted as saying he likes younger women, walking in on young women at beauty pageants, having zero moral conscience, obsessed with control, the Access Hollywood tape, him wishing Ghislaine Maxwell "well," as she faces charges of sexual trafficking of minors, etc.

To be fair, Bill Clinton is also probably dirty as sin (although the whataboutism is a false comparison since Trump is the current president). Nothing would surprise me about him either. But there's just too many low probability things that would have to happen for Trump to have a clean sexual history. I don't buy it, and I think this is the main thing he's afraid of.

 

[FGG]

I think it's one of those things where nothing will ever really come of it. The Mueller report (redacted version, at least) was not that persuasive. People are sort of tired of it.

I do think there's truth to the fact that Trump doesn't see Putin the way others do. Trump has sociopathic tendencies so I'm sure on some level he really does look up to Putin.

My hunch is that there is sexual blackmail on Trump. All of the rape accusations, being friends with Epstein, being quoted as saying he likes younger women, walking in on young women at beauty pageants, having zero moral conscience, obsessed with control, the Access Hollywood tape, him wishing Ghislaine Maxwell "well," as she faces charges of sexual trafficking of minors, etc.

To be fair, Bill Clinton is also probably dirty as sin (although the whataboutism is a false comparison since Trump is the current president). Nothing would surprise me about him either. But there's just too many low probability things that would have to happen for Trump to have a clean sexual history. I don't buy it, and I think this is the main thing he's afraid of.

People focus more on Trump purposely walking in on the adult Miss USA pageant contestants in the dressing room (he told Howard Stern this was a "perk" of ownership) but in the 1990s, he was *also* doing this with Miss Teen USA, which had girls as young as 14.

But agree, Bill Clinton and Trump were both high associated with Epstein and both have some dark skeletons in their closets.

 

[Thuan]

I have been so obsessed with my loud tinnitus for the past months (I used to have mild tinnitus) that I don't really give a rat's ass about who is running or their platforms. But my 2cents, I honestly don't care about anyone's skeletons as long as the leader leads the country in a positive way, which Trump is not doing.

 

[FGG]

I have been so obsessed with my loud tinnitus for the past months (I used to have mild tinnitus) that I don't really give a rat's ass about who is running or their platforms. But my 2cents, I honestly don't care about anyone's skeletons as long as the leader leads the country in a positive way, which Trump is not doing.

I agree with you to a point. E.g. Extramarital affairs probably don't determine if someone can lead. However, if you do things you could be blackmailed for (e.g. If it turns out he as involved with Epstein's sex trafficking ring, etc) that makes him a national security risk.

In addition, morality does play an issue if you are dealing with certain personality traits that would always cause someone to put self interest over country.

 

[Christiaan]

I have been so obsessed with my loud tinnitus for the past months (I used to have mild tinnitus) that I don't really give a rat's ass about who is running or their platforms. But my 2cents, I honestly don't care about anyone's skeletons as long as the leader leads the country in a positive way, which Trump is not doing.

Trust me, you wouldn't want a leader with skeletons in their closet. People with that kind of luggage could easily be blackmailed into doing something that goes against the interest of the people who voted for him or her.

Money in politics is one of them. I LMAO when I read a story about a congressman (Derek Kilmer from Washington State) who is against Citizen United, but he accepted money from an asteroid mining company and even wrote a bill to privatise all asteroids in the solar system. Really? Since when has the US jurisdiction over astronomical objects? Anyway, so much for keeping politics clean from corporate interference

 

[FGG]

If these things are common knowledge, it makes me wonder why most people are soo desensitised that it doesn't even matter to them.

They always say that people want money or attention (for the accusers before he was president) and after, they just say it is for political gain. Those things do occur but there have been at least 22 women alleging abuse against Trump:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations

And given the statements he has made publicly, I don't find it hard to believe at least some of them are true.

 

[Christiaan]

I agree with you to a point. E.g. Extramarital affairs probably don't determine if someone can lead. However, if you do things you could be blackmailed for (e.g. If it turns out he as involved with Epstein's sex trafficking ring, etc) that makes him a national security risk.

In addition, morality does play an issue if you are dealing with certain personality traits that would always cause someone to put self interest over country.

If these things are common knowledge, it makes me wonder why most people are so desensitised that it doesn't even matter to them.

 

[FGG]

Money in politics is one of them. I LMAO when I read a story about a congressman (Derek Kilmer from Washington State) who is against Citizen United, but he accepted money from an asteroid mining company and even wrote a bill to privatise all asteroids in the solar system. Really? Since when has the US jurisdiction over astronomical objects? Anyway, so much for keeping politics clean from corporate interference

Do you have a link to that bill... I would love to read the wording.

 

[Zugzug]

If these things are common knowledge, it makes me wonder why most people are so desensitised that it doesn't even matter to them.

As @FGG said, I think a lot of it is a misunderstanding of sexual abuse culture. I don't think people realize how traumatic it is for someone to come forward. Something we hear over and over again is "Why didn't those women come forward sooner? It's been X years and NOW they come forward?"

There are so many reasons for this. The one is that they hid their stories specifically because they calculated that it's worse to be raped and humiliated publicly than raped and private. Actually, "humiliated" is putting it super mildly, as they sometimes need to hide their addresses, hire security, as they receive death threats. The other is that they probably didn't follow the figure or view them as a threat. Then their conscience demanded that they tell others about the person.

This is overwhelmingly the case. Now what is true is that with super rich and famous people (like Trump), there are some actual crazies that come out sometimes looking for money. Even so, at some point, numbers have to matter. Given the analysis above and Trump's behavior, there's just no way that ALL of those women are money-grabbing or fame-grabbing.

I don't think it's desensitization. I think it's cognitive dissonance that blinds people from seeing the real story.

 

[just1morething]

But agree, Bill Clinton and Trump were both high associated with Epstein and both have some dark skeletons in their closets.

According to the documentary on Netflix Bill Clinton was spotted at Epstein's private island. No mention of Trump ever being there.

 

[Christiaan]

Do you have a link to that bill... I would love to read the wording.

Kilmer-backed bill sets sights on space with promotion of asteroid mining

''The ASTEROIDS Act — the acronym for the American Space Technology for Exploring Resource Opportunities in Deep Space Act — is meant to "promote the development of a commercial asteroid resources industry for outer space in the United States and to increase the exploration and utilization of asteroid resources in outer space," (....)''

''It would facilitate commercial exploration of asteroids, which can be rich in minerals and most of which, in our solar system, orbit the sun between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter in what is known as the asteroid belt''

''It also discourages government barriers to private-industry exploration and promotes the rights of U.S. businesses to explore and use those resources''

Link.


Also, if someone. happens to live in Washington state, please consider Rebecca Parson. She's a progressive who doesn't take corporate money, supports Green New Deal & Medicare 4all.

Link.

 

[DaveN]

According to the documentary on Netflix Bill Clinton was spotted at Epstein's private island. No mention of Trump ever being there.

They were neighbors and Epstein/Maxwell spent a lot of time at Mar-A-Lago.
Trump has, in interviews previous to his 2016 campaign, stated that he and Jeffrey were friends and had been close for 15 years.

Trump has also stated that he was aware that Jeff liked younger women.

 

[Tanni]

If these things are common knowledge, it makes me wonder why most people are so desensitised that it doesn't even matter to them.

People don't believe women unfortunately, Christiaan. I think this is the issue more than the fact that they don't care about rape. They just don't believe it has happened.

As @FGG said, I think a lot of it is a misunderstanding of sexual abuse culture. I don't think people realize how traumatic it is for someone to come forward. Something we hear over and over again is "Why didn't those women come forward sooner? It's been X years and NOW they come forward?"

There are so many reasons for this. The one is that they hid their stories specifically because they calculated that it's worse to be raped and humiliated publicly than raped and private. Actually, "humiliated" is putting it super mildly, as they sometimes need to hide their addresses, hire security, as they receive death threats. The other is that they probably didn't follow the figure or view them as a threat. Then their conscience demanded that they tell others about the person.

This is overwhelmingly the case. Now what is true is that with super rich and famous people (like Trump), there are some actual crazies that come out sometimes looking for money. Even so, at some point, numbers have to matter. Given the analysis above and Trump's behavior, there's just no way that ALL of those women are money-grabbing or fame-grabbing.

I don't think it's desensitization. I think it's cognitive dissonance that blinds people from seeing the real story.

Thank you for the first two paragraphs in particular.

In this area, not believing accusers has nothing to do with Trump himself -- it is true of any sexual abuse situation, whether the man involved is rich or poor, famous or not.

People overwhelmingly don't believe women when it comes to sexual abuse -- and this includes other women. Women have been portrayed for years as money grabbing liars trying to extort or destroy men, both in fiction and in real life, and it's no wonder that so many people believe it's the truth.

I hope one day the general consensus on this will change.

 

[FGG]

According to the documentary on Netflix Bill Clinton was spotted at Epstein's private island. No mention of Trump ever being there.

However, Maria Farmer (she was abused by not at the island) who is in the documentary has mentioned seeing Trump many times on her Twitter feed, though at her other locales.

 

[Tanni]

According to the documentary on Netflix Bill Clinton was spotted at Epstein's private island. No mention of Trump ever being there.

Just goes to show that political leanings are not always indicative of character. Especially true in Clinton's case. Both of them are clearly abusers.

 

[FGG]

According to the documentary on Netflix Bill Clinton was spotted at Epstein's private island. No mention of Trump ever being there.

Oh yeah, Bill is guilty, too, imo.

Here is an interview with Katie Johnson who accused Trump of raping her when she was 13. None of her allegations occurred on the island.



She was discredited before Epstein was arrested because her tales about him (Epstein) seemed wild (but turned out to be true).

You can read her court filings online. She dropped the case and literally disappeared (reportedly afraid for her life) right before the case. While not conclusive proof, nothing about this interview seems unreliable to me and I would say it technically counts as more evidence than against Bill Clinton (though I think he's guilty, too).

 

[Christiaan]

They always say that people want money or attention (for the accusers before he was president) and after, they just say it is for political gain. Those things do occur but there have been at least 22 women alleging abuse against Trump:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations

And given the statements he has made publicly, I don't find it hard to believe at least some of them are true.

It's sad that these accusations are used against women who are (allegedly) abused by men like trump. The standards of having a public position is different for women. I remember that Katie Hill (congresswoman from California) had to resign because of an extramarital affair, which is bad in and of itself, but is nowhere near close as what can be said about Trump, Brett Kavanaugh, etc. Thus, IMO, women in higher office are held to higher societal standards to men, unfortunately.

 

[PeteJ]

Hello. It looks I am allowed to post again. For now. I want to apologize if that's what I have to do but I also have a question. My core of my beliefs and perspectives is that people are brainwashed. I can't apologize for an opinion I have. Are you offended by this? I can't help it. I think the majority of populations are brainwashed but I am always willing to explain my reasoning. I think politics requires a thick skin and someone will always be offended or outraged about something. For me, it is about "waking up" and becoming enlightened. A great number never will.

Anyway, I will end my post saying if I say something that bothers you so much that you will report me, just tell me and I will cease posting that. Is that okay?

Finally, I want to say I am against censorship and no one has talked about Trump getting censored by Twitter. If it was Biden, I bet there would be outrage.

Was my post okay? I hope I didn't violate any rules or offend anyone.

 

[Zugzug]

None of it matters though. There could be a video of Trumping raping a 13 year old and it would get called fake news by his supporters. Trump himself could say it's the truth and that he likes young women and his supporters would justify it. This is how a cult works. There's no point in trying to change the minds of die hard Trump supporters. There are bigger fish to fry like turning out vote, not suppressing mail-in voting, holding a fair election, etc.

 

[Zugzug]

Finally, I want to say I am against censorship and no one has talked about Trump getting censored by Twitter. If it was Biden, I bet there would be outrage.

If Biden acted on Twitter the way Trump has over the past 4 years, I would demand that he was impeached, removed from office, imprisoned. You are making "fear of censorship" look totally insane. The guy has threatened NUCLEAR WAR over Twitter. I just can't believe how contrarian you are about Trump, while maintaining that you're right down the middle. You remind me of the people like Dave Rubin who claim to be a "classical liberal" just to make their criticisms seem more valuable. Your hypothetical makes no sense. It's such a straw man. Every single person in this thread would be furious if Biden acted like Trump. If Biden acted like Trump, I would not vote.

Sometimes Trump Derangement syndrome is really just rationally hating a pathetic leader.

But yeah, I disagree with you, but as long as you are respectful, I don't care what you post.

 

[Christiaan]

@PeteJ, I will not go into the 'brainwash'' part, but all I would like to say is: good to see you in the thread again. Let's begin with a clean slate & focus on what matters most in the world: US politics

 

[PeteJ]

If Biden acted on Twitter the way Trump has over the past 4 years, I would demand that he was impeached, removed from office, imprisoned. You are making "fear of censorship" look totally insane. The guy has threatened NUCLEAR WAR over Twitter. I just can't believe how contrarian you are about Trump, while maintaining that you're right down the middle. You remind me of the people like Dave Rubin who claim to be a "classical liberal" just to make their criticisms seem more valuable. Your hypothetical makes no sense. It's such a straw man. Every single person in this thread would be furious if Biden acted like Trump. If Biden acted like Trump, I would not vote.

Sometimes Trump Derangement syndrome is really just rationally hating a pathetic leader.

But yeah, I disagree with you, but as long as you are respectful, I don't care what you post.

I disagree. Twitter and many others have been censoring "wrong think'" for a while. YouTube have been removing videos. This is wide and pervasive. I won't respond to the rest because I am self censoring myself. It means, I see no point to elaborate further.

 

[Zugzug]

I think the majority of populations are brainwashed but I am always willing to explain my reasoning. I think politics requires a thick skin and someone will always be offended or outraged about something. For me, it is about "waking up" and becoming enlightened. A great number never will.

Let me ask you a substantive question. Do you think any of the people who have become "enlightened" are also brainwashed sheep? If so, what percentage? Do you think that if I stop watching MSM all together and turn to the alt right, I am now a political scholar?

 

[ajc]

I would love to see Trump win the election, it would be an interesting term to follow.

Rate my post "Winner" if you want to see Trump win too, or "Friendly" if you do not.