2020 US Presidential Election

[Born To Slay]

UBI would likely run a big deficit the first couple years until the economy grows, especially in the first year because we have to fund the monthly payments. If implemented correctly, the deficit would shrink over time as higher purchasing power generates growth. Automation also increases productivity, which in turn can enhance growth.

I'm all for paying our tab. Most proposed budgets from candidates that I've seen do not seem to be entirely feasible unless deficits are employed, again, especially early on.

There are numerous areas where we could reduce expenditures just by looking at the projected U.S. federal budget for 2021. We often fail to allocate our resources in the most efficient way. Both sides are guilty.

The only problem with running these deficits is that right now, our current deficit without a stimulus is about a trillion a year. Throwing another 500-1,000 billion per year onto the deficit is sure to be a political loser. I'm for UBI, I think it's great idea, I just think that we should make it revenue neutral.

 

[Emgee]

The only problem with running these deficits is that right now, our current deficit without a stimulus is about a trillion a year. Throwing another 500-1,000 billion per year onto the deficit is sure to be a political loser. I'm for UBI, I think it's great idea, I just think that we should make it revenue neutral.

You would have to run a deficit at first because people need money to spend in order to stimulate the economy. Yang estimates a 10% VAT will bring in around $800-$900 billion in revenue. Clothing and groceries would be exempt. Aside from the VAT, funding would come from a carbon fee, a financial transactions tax, and removal of the cap on Social Security payroll tax. A balanced budget would be possible after enough economic growth is generated. Yang's proposal is more fiscally responsible than Bernie's. The Progressive Policy Institute estimates Bernie'a proposals would increase federal spending by $51.5 trillion over the span of a decade.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/4726833002

"It's true that, under Medicare for All, people wouldn't have to pay private health insurance premiums any more. And Sanders proposes $22.5 trillion in tax increases and military spending cuts to help offset the cost of his spending spree. But that still leaves a gap of more than $25 trillion."

 

[Lilah]

Permanent UBI will not work; it is too expensive. That UBI will stimulate the economy sounds too good to be true, especially since many people will quit working, delay entering the workforce, etc. Also, I expect wages to drop as a result; employers will factor in you are getting an extra $1000 to $3000 etc per household (depending on household size and number of children) per month during salary negotiations. There are already programs for the poor, disabled, etc which need to improved to provide for people really in need and to reduce fraud/corruption. UBI won't really help too much after lost wages, and certainly not enough to offset the huge cost overall.

 

[Lilah]

UBI will certainly have an adverse impact on wages. Even now, many employers do not provide health care or pay enough and don't feel bad about it, since they know the individual qualifies for state benefits and Medicaid. Employers try to reduce costs as much as possible. Same logic applies with UBI.

A good way to increase revenue for UBI is to drill for oil, but the Left is against this. But again, overall UBI will have adverse results.

 

[Emgee]

Permanent UBI will not work; it is too expensive. That UBI will stimulate the economy sounds too good to be true, especially since many people will quit working, delay entering the workforce, etc. Also, I expect wages to drop as a result; employers will factor in you are getting an extra $1000 to $3000 etc per household (depending on household size and number of children) per month during salary negotiations. There are already programs for the poor, disabled, etc which need to improved to provide for people really in need and to reduce fraud/corruption. UBI won't really help too much after lost wages, and certainly not enough to offset the huge cost overall.

I disagree. Most people aren't going to quit their jobs for $12,000/year. The 2020 poverty line is $12,760 for a single-person household. Overtime hours may take a little hit, and some workers may choose to work a little less (a lot won't). UBI could help workers through bargaining. They could technically live on this subsistence income if need be, which could serve as a negotiation tool. This could prompt employers to offer more competitive compensation in order to attract talent. People want to work. Work gives us purpose and dignity. UBI just makes it easier to pay bills, pursue passions, and breathe easier.

If one's conditional benefits like housing allowances, unemployment benefits, etc. exceed $1,000/month, you don't have to opt-in for UBI.

AI and automation are replacing more and more jobs. Whether we like it or not, it's reality. Eventually, we will get to a point where we are all working less. We will need to oversee technology and then go home. UBI at that point will be more than beneficial — it will be essential.

 

[GlennS]

Speaking of Q, Trump is now retweeting and promoting crazy Q conspiracies:
https://www.newsweek.com/robert-oneill-bin-laden-double-trump-qanon-1539010
What do the non-Q Trump supporters think of this?

First off, I think there are a minority of Trump supporters who don't subscribe to Q-like tinfoil beliefs. But those who do, well, it remains "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and "the ends justify the means".

Yikes! If nobody can convince someone here on this thread that Trump is by far the worst possible human being for the role of president, I hope The Simpsons can seal the deal in their new Tree House of Horror episode (on the 18th).
'The Simpsons' listed 50 reasons not to reelect Donald Trump in the teaser for its annual Halloween episode

Entertainment has become way too on-the-nose. Even if it's on my ideological side, I get enough damn politics as it is. I don't want it shoved in my face through my entertainment, at least not overtly. It's like, I got an alert on Facebook that Spinal Tap are doing some sort of live stream "reunion" but it's really just a gimmick for those guys to promote the Democratic ticket. This is becoming sort of the ideological segregation of entertainment where lefties make left-leaning entertainment just for lefties and everyone else is persona non grata. The whole beauty of entertainment is to be able to get in under the radar of those who have opposing views and to get them to think. That doesn't happen when the 4th wall is broken and you merely have creators proselytizing.

And seriously, it wasn't that long ago that The Simpsons was pushing BACK at the left with its anti-censorship episode and then before you know it they bend the knee and get rid of Apu and do this.

 

[Born To Slay]

UBI will certainly have an adverse impact on wages. Even now, many employers do not provide health care or pay enough and don't feel bad about it, since they know the individual qualifies for state benefits and Medicaid. Employers try to reduce costs as much as possible. Same logic applies with UBI.

A good way to increase revenue for UBI is to drill for oil, but the Left is against this. But again, overall UBI will have adverse results.

Can you cite a source suggesting that welfare or UBI lowers pay for people? Of all the arguments against these things, that's one rarely talked about. Especially since it's not like poor people were doing better with wages or benefits before Medicaid, snap and others.

And fuck oil, there's plenty of progressive ways to pay for this.

 

[Lilah]

Most people aren't going to quit their jobs for $12,000/year.

People who make around that range through work may consider quitting, such as someone who works part-time and lives with his parents especially if he doesn't like the job, commute, coworkers, etc.

A household may get $48,000 per year or higher from UBI (say a multigenerational household, with a working couple, in-laws, plus kids, etc.). $48,000 per year is actually an income from a decent job (and it is worth more in some parts of the country than others), so the family may decide it is fine if one or two people leave their jobs (even temporarily), work less hours, etc.

This is why the economy will shrink with UBI.

They could technically live on this subsistence income if need be, which could serve as a negotiation tool. This could prompt employers to offer more competitive compensation in order to attract talent.

Unpaid internships/low paid jobs are still competitive to obtain; there are always interviews for these jobs and other people are willing to take these jobs. Most employers do not negotiate starting salary too much. The common strategy is accept the job first, then negotiate six months later or keep looking.

 

[Born To Slay]

I disagree. Most people aren't going to quit their jobs for $12,000/year. The 2020 poverty line is $12,760 for a single-person household. Overtime hours may take a little hit, and some workers may choose to work a little less (a lot won't). UBI could help workers through bargaining. They could technically live on this subsistence income if need be, which could serve as a negotiation tool. This could prompt employers to offer more competitive compensation in order to attract talent. People want to work. Work gives us purpose and dignity. UBI just makes it easier to pay bills, pursue passions, and breathe easier.

If one's conditional benefits like housing allowances, unemployment benefits, etc. exceed $1,000/month, you don't have to opt-in for UBI.

AI and automation are replacing more and more jobs. Whether we like it or not, it's reality. Eventually, we will get to a point where we are all working less. We will need to oversee technology and then go home. UBI at that point will be more than beneficial — it will be essential.

Ya know it's funny, I find it so hypocritical of the government that it calls $12,760 the poverty line and yet welfare can add up to more than that annually. It's like a tacit admission that the poverty line number is bullshit and the government knows it.

 

[Born To Slay]

People who make around that range through work may consider quitting, such as someone who works part-time and lives with his parents especially if he doesn't like the job, commute, coworkers, etc.

A household may get $48,000 per year or higher from UBI (say a multigenerational household, with a working couple, in-laws, plus kids, etc.). $48,000 per year is actually an income from a decent job (and it is worth more in some parts of the country than others), so the family may decide it is fine if one or two people leave their jobs (even temporarily), work less hours, etc.

This is why the economy will shrink with UBI.


Unpaid internships/low paid jobs are still competitive to obtain; there are always interviews for these jobs and other people are willing to take these jobs. Most employers do not negotiate starting salary too much. The common strategy is accept the job first, then negotiate six months later or keep looking.

You are forgetting the tax burden would go up significantly to finance the UBI. It's $48,000 gross, not net. Not to mention that four people getting $48,000 would still be fairly close to the poverty line and if they have children, who don't get a UBI under Yang's plan, they'd be even closer. Not working is not viable. And working less hours would be minimal. And honestly, that minimal effect wouldn't be the end of the world with Americans working so much harder than people in other developed countries.

Unpaid internships are competing for benefits other than money and low wage jobs may be competitive now but they'd have to raise wages under a UBI system. Otherwise yeah, people may tell Walmart or McDonald's to go fuck themselves in places that never raised their minimum wage over $7.25.

 

[Emgee]

You are forgetting the tax burden would go up significantly to finance the UBI. It's $48,000 gross, not net. Not to mention that four people getting $48,000 would still be fairly close to the poverty line and if they have children, who don't get a UBI under Yang's plan, they'd be even closer. Not working is not viable. And working less hours would be minimal. And honestly, that minimal effect wouldn't be the end of the world with Americans working so much harder than people in other developed countries.

Unpaid internships are competing for benefits other than money and low wage jobs may be competitive now but they'd have to raise wages under a UBI system. Otherwise yeah, people may tell Walmart or McDonald's to go fuck themselves in places that never raised their minimum wage over $7.25.

Exactly.

And with regard to fear of inflation, interest rate control and monetary tools exist. Plus, if every landlord decided to jack monthly rent up to unsustainable levels, rent control could be considered. Yang has said real estate, healthcare, and education are dysfunctional industries that need reform. However, I think it would take a while for the market to adjust and for rent to be substantially raised.

Like @Born To Slay pointed out above, the $12,000 per adult is gross, not net. You can be pushed into a higher marginal bracket, and you are paying VAT as well to fund UBI. You won't clear the whole amount. It's not like we're giving people a check not to work. UBI is meant to be a supplement to get by easier and prepare for the implications of automation. Landlords would likely be corrected by the market if they think people suddenly have a ton more to pay for rent. Market forces would be in play. Apartments with relatively lower-priced rent would operate at higher capacity as they do in competitive markets. Kids wouldn't receive UBI, and $12,000 is around the current poverty level. UBI will replace welfare assistance that does not exceed $1,000/month if you opt-in. We're not just adding money to the money supply without paying for it.

160 countries currently use a VAT, including every developed nation aside from the U.S. A major benefit is that big companies and wealthy individuals can't just move earnings overseas and not pay their fair share. If they transact with a company here, they pay VAT. It's a smart strategy.

 

[Christiaan]

@Christiaan,

Your country is not perfect either:

https://www.france24.com/en/20201013-dutch-pm-rutte-imposes-partial-lockdown-to-contain-coronavirus

The number of cases in this country of 17 million has surged in recent weeks to a daily record of nearly 7,400 on Tuesday. It now has one of the highest per capita infection rates worldwide.

Who says that my country is perfect?

All I can say is that Trump has failed to recognise the havoc that the virus brings to society and doesn't change a single thing in strategy while trends point to a further spread in infections. That's what I call ignorant. For Trump, the economy matters more to him than human lives. Would you like to have a leader who thinks like that? Seriously?

We currently have a second wave in covid infections all throughout Western Europe, which is why the local government reimposed lockdown measures to curtail the spread and keep care available for people with other ailments.

Meanwhile, your President and other Republican governors are making a joke out of the it by spreading misinformation about the seriousness of this virus (e.g. lockdowns are ''useless'', COVID-19 is just like the flu, it will go away eventually) while thousands of people die on a daily basis. Some governors are really serious about their job in protecting people, like Governor Tom Wolf of Pennsylvania, and even he was pushed back by Trump and a conservative federal judge who is appointed by him, as it was deemed unconstitutional.

 

[Christiaan]

I feel that the experiment in Finland should have been larger, though I understand it is a costly expenditure. Moreover, some trial participants only received small basic-income payments, while they also had a reduction in their conditional benefits for trial purposes.

One of the world's largest basic-income trials, a 2-year program in Finland, was a major flop. But experts say the test was flawed.

From the article:

"A control group of unemployed people (around 5,000 residents) continued to receive these services. The treatment group, meanwhile, received a portion (but not all) of the same conditional benefits they had been getting before, in addition to small basic-income payments of 560 euros ($640) per month."

"One participant, Sini Marttinen, told the New York Times that her income only rose by 50 euros ($55) per month during the experiment."

Also, automation is one of the major reasons that UBI could be beneficial.

Robots 'to replace up to 20 million factory jobs' by 2030

Thanks for pointing that out @Emgee. Hopefully we know more in the near future if it really works for some people. Thomas Piketty, a famous economist in Europe, also talked about taxation on mechanisation in order to make UBI affordable, not only on income. Anyway, it's very interesting to see how this would be put into practice eventually.

 

[just1morething]

Who says that my country is perfect?

All I can say is that Trump has failed to recognise the havoc that the virus brings to society and doesn't change a single thing in strategy while trends point to a further spread in infections. That's what I call ignorant. For Trump, the economy matters more to him than human lives. Would you like to have a leader who thinks like that? Seriously?

We currently have a second wave in covid infections all throughout Western Europe, which is why the local government reimposed lockdown measures to curtail the spread and keep care available for people with other ailments.

Meanwhile, your President and other Republican governors are making a joke out of the it by spreading misinformation about the seriousness of this virus (e.g. lockdowns are ''useless'', COVID-19 is just like the flu, it will go away eventually) while thousands of people die on a daily basis. Some governors are really serious about their job in protecting people, like Governor Tom Wolf of Pennsylvania, and even he was pushed back by Trump and a conservative federal judge who is appointed by him, as it was deemed unconstitutional.

Trump delegated wearing masks to the states governors. I think the whole country should wear masks while in public. The President probably should mandate that. I wonder what the difference is in infection rates of COVID-19 in states that mandate wearing masks vs those that don't?

I suppose Trump did want to keep the country open so certain businesses wouldn't fail and close. It's hard on hotels and casinos that he owns too. He did enact "Operation Warp Speed" to quicken the release of a vaccine. It's a double edged sword with the Democrats as they fail to protect the unborn. Some pro-life Christians choose Trump for that reason alone despite his faults.

https://www.army.mil/article/239865/operation_warp_speed_makes_swift_progress

 

[PeteJ]

Hunter Biden scandal is being censored by MSM and social media. Leftists just ignore this and whine only about Trump. They are such despicable hypocrites.

Why a story about Joe Biden, his son Hunter and Ukraine is being blocked online

Even in Canada, the public broadcaster is showing bias for the Democrats. This is pathetic.

CBC Suppressing Hunter Biden Story

 

[PeteJ]

Who says that my country is perfect?

All I can say is that Trump has failed to recognise the havoc that the virus brings to society and doesn't change a single thing in strategy while trends point to a further spread in infections. That's what I call ignorant. For Trump, the economy matters more to him than human lives. Would you like to have a leader who thinks like that? Seriously?

We currently have a second wave in covid infections all throughout Western Europe, which is why the local government reimposed lockdown measures to curtail the spread and keep care available for people with other ailments.

Meanwhile, your President and other Republican governors are making a joke out of the it by spreading misinformation about the seriousness of this virus (e.g. lockdowns are ''useless'', COVID-19 is just like the flu, it will go away eventually) while thousands of people die on a daily basis. Some governors are really serious about their job in protecting people, like Governor Tom Wolf of Pennsylvania, and even he was pushed back by Trump and a conservative federal judge who is appointed by him, as it was deemed unconstitutional.

Because it IS JUST LIKE THE FLU.

WHO recently said, intentionally or accidentally, that lockdowns do not help and are actually harmful.

Also, the death rate is between 0.13% and 0.2% which are similar to flu numbers. These statistics have been consistent throughout COVID-1984 and there has been flip flopping by WHO and CDC regarding masks. First, they don't work. Then they do. They don't help enough. They are the most effective thing to do, blah, blah, blah... then cats and dogs are getting COVID-19... then you can get it if you have a certain blood type... blah, blah, blah...

 

[Luman]

Who says that my country is perfect?

All I can say is that Trump has failed to recognise the havoc that the virus brings to society and doesn't change a single thing in strategy while trends point to a further spread in infections. That's what I call ignorant. For Trump, the economy matters more to him than human lives. Would you like to have a leader who thinks like that? Seriously?

We currently have a second wave in covid infections all throughout Western Europe, which is why the local government reimposed lockdown measures to curtail the spread and keep care available for people with other ailments.

Meanwhile, your President and other Republican governors are making a joke out of the it by spreading misinformation about the seriousness of this virus (e.g. lockdowns are ''useless'', COVID-19 is just like the flu, it will go away eventually) while thousands of people die on a daily basis. Some governors are really serious about their job in protecting people, like Governor Tom Wolf of Pennsylvania, and even he was pushed back by Trump and a conservative federal judge who is appointed by him, as it was deemed unconstitutional.

This is a disease, not a political football. What Trump says in offhand remarks makes no difference in the big picture. We cannot survive better by closing down the entire country and starving to death, than having a few thousand people, who are mostly sick and/or very elderly, die a few weeks or months earlier than they would have, without COVID-19. To go to extreme measures, which hurts many, to help a very few, who have other serious problems, is wrong. I'm sorry, but every decade or so there's a crisis such as this and unfortunate as it is, some people will die. This is life, the Real World, and Trump, or anybody else, cannot change this. He cannot mandate how the individual states, which are like separate countries, deal with every single aspect of this health problem. We are not set up that way, in the United States. Also, this disease is not something that anybody knew anything about. Thanks to China and their comrades WHO, we weren't even told it was this bad.

 

[FGG]

This is a disease, not a political football. What Trump says in offhand remarks makes no difference in the big picture. We cannot survive better by closing down the entire country and starving to death, than having a few thousand people, who are mostly sick and/or very elderly, die a few weeks or months earlier than they would have, without COVID-19. To go to extreme measures, which hurts many, to help a very few, who have other serious problems, is wrong. I'm sorry, but every decade or so there's a crisis such as this and unfortunate as it is, some people will die. This is life, the Real World, and Trump, or anybody else, cannot change this. He cannot mandate how the individual states, which are like separate countries, deal with every single aspect of this health problem. We are not set up that way, in the United States. Also, this disease is not something that anybody knew anything about. Thanks to China and their comrades WHO, we weren't even told it was this bad.

Please watch "Totally Under Control" and see if it changes your mind about Trump's COVID-19 handling. It's more than just words.

Among the many failings:

-3M exported supplies to China under Trump's direction and then hospitals had to bid for supplies (often from China) that the *federal government* stockpiled and drove the price up for (Trump is on film saying "hey, that's how the free market works").

-As the hospital mask shortage got worse, Kushner eventually ordered a group of young adult *volunteers* (that he put a vague ad to recruit) to scour the international market on the internet to find supplies such as masks. But the problem was they couldn't then buy any they found because Azar (under Trump) wouldn't secure funds to pay the overseas suppliers. All of them were forced to sign an NDA but one filed a whistle blower complaint.

-They hid the severity until Nancy Messonier spoke out. Before then, the party line to keep repeating was "nothing to worry about", "Totally Under control." The CDC were told to lie and say they were doing extensive contact tracing at a press conference when they hadn't been because a comprehensive program was not set up when initially requested.

-Fauci was not supposed to tell people travel and cruises are unsafe and Pence immediately lied after he did to say cruises had provisions for safety (they did not).

-Trump and Azar knew in January but decided to let the free market worry (Azar's words in this case) about supplies. At the same time, the owner of one of the only US mask makers went to DC to try to start mass producing and stock piling for the inevitable but was immediately shut down.

-The way the China travel restriction was implemented actually spread the virus worse because all Chinese Americans visiting China for the New Year were instructed to return at the same time and there was no mandatory enforceable quarantine.

-The original CDC COVID-19 test had a short control problem in the 3rd step/reagent that made it very inaccurate but the administration would not allow the use of university developed tests without making them go through a lengthy FDA application that could have been circumvented by the same emergency use the CDC test had. In addition, Germany offered a test in the interim that was declined because it would be offered through the WHO.

They do a great comparison with South Korea who got their first case on the same day the US did (and also halted travel from China) and what happened since could not be more different.

 

[Luman]

Please watch "Totally Under Control" and see if it changes your mind about Trump's COVID-19 handling. It's more than just words.

Among the many failings:

-3M exported supplies to China under Trump's direction and then hospitals had to bid for supplies (often from China) that the *federal government* stockpiled and drove the price up for (Trump is on film saying "hey, that's how the free market works").

-As the hospital mask shortage got worse, Kushner eventually ordered a group of young adult *volunteers* (that he put a vague ad to recruit) to scour the international market on the internet to find supplies such as masks. But the problem was they couldn't then buy any they found because Azar (under Trump) wouldn't secure funds to pay the overseas suppliers. All of them were forced to sign an NDA but one filed a whistle blower complaint.

-They hid the severity until Nancy Messonier spoke out. Before then, the party line to keep repeating was "nothing to worry about", "Totally Under control." The CDC were told to lie and say they were doing extensive contact tracing at a press conference when they hadn't been because a comprehensive program was not set up when initially requested.

-Fauci was not supposed to tell people travel and cruises are unsafe and Pence immediately lied after he did to say cruises had provisions for safety (they did not).

-Trump and Azar knew in January but decided to let the free market worry (Azar's words in this case) about supplies. At the same time, the owner of one of the only US mask makers went to DC to try to start mass producing and stock piling for the inevitable but was immediately shut down.

-The way the China travel restriction was implemented actually spread the virus worse because all Chinese Americans visiting China for the New Year were instructed to return at the same time and there was no mandatory enforceable quarantine.

-The original CDC COVID-19 test had a short control problem in the 3rd step/reagent that made it very inaccurate but the administration would not allow the use of university developed tests without making them go through a lengthy FDA application that could have been circumvented by the same emergency use the CDC test had. In addition, Germany offered a test in the interim that was declined because it would be offered through the WHO.

They do a great comparison with South Korea who got their first case on the same day the US did (and also halted travel from China) and what happened since could not be more different.

The United States is comprised of 50 states, which are like their own separate countries. South Korea has 51 million, California has 39 million. Then we have 49 other states, many of which are far bigger than many of the countries that are held up to be examples of what we, the United States, should be like. New York was hit the hardest, and we have a self-congratulating buffoon governor in charge, which made matters worse. Trump gave NYS everything we asked for, and more, and Cuomo still screwed it up. And now, he has published a self-congratulating book on his accomplishments with this disease.

Looks like the European countries that are "laughing at us", aren't doing very well these days, with COVID-19. Their rates of infections have surpassed ours. Maybe they're ready to start WWIII, to liven things up a bit like they did in the last century, twice, with WWII having the highest death toll of war in history, surpassing 50 million.

Lesson not learned: Europe unprepared as 2nd virus wave hits

 

[all to gain]

Hunter Biden scandal is being censored by MSM and social media. Leftists just ignore this and whine only about Trump. They are such despicable hypocrites.

Why a story about Joe Biden, his son Hunter and Ukraine is being blocked online

Even in Canada, the public broadcaster is showing bias for the Democrats. This is pathetic.

CBC Suppressing Hunter Biden Story

Who needs enemies when we have our own free media

Biden's hands are as dirty as hell... just like Trump's!

 

[all to gain]

The United States is comprised of 50 states, which are like their own separate countries. South Korea has 51 million, California has 39 million. Then we have 49 other states, many of which are far bigger than many of the countries that are held up to be examples of what we, the United States, should be like. New York was hit the hardest, and we have a self-congratulating buffoon governor in charge, which made matters worse. Trump gave NYS everything we asked for, and more, and Cuomo still screwed it up. And now, he has published a self-congratulating book on his accomplishments with this disease.

Looks like the European countries that are "laughing at us", aren't doing very well these days, with COVID-19. Their rates of infections have surpassed ours. Maybe they're ready to start WWIII, to liven things up a bit like they did in the last century, twice, with WWII having the highest death toll of war in history, surpassing 50 million.

Lesson not learned: Europe unprepared as 2nd virus wave hits

I'm not so sure European countries are laughing at the US. If they are, they shouldn't be. The UK's response has been shoddy, so has Russia's and the the list goes on. And when it comes to it, those in Europe will want their hands on the American vaccines as soon as possible, so they really shouldn't be laughing.

Some of those in European countries may be laughing at the political situation in the US though. But they only need to look in the mirror to see their own predicaments, which might, should, wipe the smiles off of their faces a little. But it won't.

 

[Juan]

I think US citizens are going to notice the full impact of the COVID-19 economic crisis right after the election next month.

The Americans will see the reality then...

 

[FGG]

Who needs enemies when we have our own free media

Biden's hands are as dirty as hell... just like Trump's!

I think the recent Hunter Biden story is... questionable. He supposedly brought 3 computers for repair that were all water damaged at the same time 3 years ago. The owner of the repair shop (who also was involved in the Seth Rich conspiracy) sat on it for 3 years before sending copies to Rudy Giuliani and not the FBI.

It's a very hard thing to believe on face value. Especially because it involves Rudy:

White House was warned Giuliani was target of Russian intelligence operation to feed misinformation to Trump

https://archive.is/b5P2A (Non-paywalled)

The conspiracy also says Hunter promised a meeting with his dad but no evidence of an actual meeting exists. So, presumably it could, if true, be a bit of coke-fueled grandiosity on Hunter's part.

I'm not saying Biden is above the potential for any scandal but this seems pretty hard to accept on the surface.

 

[FGG]

If Trump can be fooled by a satirical website, image what foreign governments are feeding him:

Trump shares fake story from satire website to criticize Twitter

 

[all to gain]

I think the recent Hunter Biden story is... questionable. He supposedly brought 3 computers for repair that were all water damaged at the same time 3 years ago. The owner of the repair shop (who also was involved in the Seth Rich conspiracy) sat on it for 3 years before sending copies to Rudy Giuliani and not the FBI.

It's a very hard thing to believe on face value. Especially because it involves Rudy:

White House was warned Giuliani was target of Russian intelligence operation to feed misinformation to Trump

https://archive.is/b5P2A (Non-paywalled)

The conspiracy also says Hunter promised a meeting with his dad but no evidence of an actual meeting exists. So, presumably it could, if true, be a bit of coke-fueled grandiosity on Hunter's part.

I'm not saying Biden is above the potential for any scandal but this seems pretty hard to accept on the surface.

Nah, Biden is dirty. That's not hard to accept.

Honestly, I see Biden as being as bad as Trump but in different ways.

 

[FGG]

Anyone watch one or both of the town halls last night?

 

[Born To Slay]

Anyone watch one or both of the town halls last night?

I didn't. I already know the candidates' positions on all the issues. I don't need to watch these assholes regurgitate their talking points for an hour. We already know what they're gonna say. I'll catch the highlights on YouTube. If there were any.

 

[FGG]

Nah, Biden is dirty. That's not hard to accept.

Honestly, I see Biden as being as bad as Trump but in different ways.

His corruption is more in the typical but disappointing ways all corporatists are.

For instance, his supportive position on fracking (which is extremely environmental damaging) despite running on a platform of green jobs (contrast that with say Bernie who ran on transitioning away from fracking into green jobs).

I don't see Biden as a foreign asset the way Trump is and in fact it seems like a disinformation campaign to distract from Trump's dealings.

Which, btw he admitted last night the tax information the NYT had was in fact real and not "fake news" as he originally said but said the 400 million wasn't "owed to Russia".

 

[FGG]

I didn't. I already know the candidates' positions on all the issues. I don't need to watch these assholes regurgitate their talking points for an hour. We already know what they're gonna say. I'll catch the highlights on YouTube. If there were any.

The Trump highlights are insane. Well worth the watch (actually both are worth watching):

- Trump claimed to not know much about QAnon except they hate pedophiles so he supports that. He said he can't deny there isn't a deep state satanic cult and either can Samantha Guthrie ("you don't know that there isn't" he said to her).

- When asked about promoting a conspiracy theory that seal team 6 killed a body double of Bin Ladin for political points for Obama and the real Bin Laden was already dead he said he didn't necessarily believe it but likes to retweet that information so "the people have all the information and can decide what's true or not."

- He admitted the NYT tax story was real but 400 million isn't a lot of money to him so it's no big deal and he definitely doesn't owe it to Russia (which no one brought up so it was kind of a weird answer).

Biden, in contrast, faltered a bit on the Regeneron thing by saying multiple times they only had 500,000 doses (which would be enough since it is only for hospitalized patients). The real number is 50,000 so he was off by quite a bit. Also personally I don't feel he defended his pro fracking position well. Other than that, i thought he did well, even admitting aspects of his crime bill were a mistake and he learned from it.

 

[Born To Slay]

The Trump highlights are insane. Well worth the watch (actually both are worth watching):

- Trump claimed to not know much about QAnon except they hate pedophiles so he supports that. He said he can't deny there isn't a deep state satanic cult and either can Samantha Guthrie ("you don't know that there isn't" he said to her).

- When asked about promoting a conspiracy theory that seal team 6 killed a body double of Bin Ladin for political points for Obama and the real Bin Laden was already dead he said he didn't necessarily believe it but likes to retweet that information so "the people have all the information and can decide what's true or not."

- He admitted the NYT tax story was real but 400 million isn't a lot of money to him so it's no big deal and he definitely doesn't owe it to Russia (which no one brought up so it was kind of a weird answer).

Biden, in contrast, faltered a bit on the Regeneron thing by saying multiple times they only had 500,000 doses (which would be enough since it is only for hospitalized patients). The real number is 50,000 so he was off by quite a bit. Other than that, i thought he did well, even admitting aspects of his crime bill were a mistake and he learned from it.

Ugh, that sounds like it would piss me off honestly. Maybe I'll watch it. Sounds like more classic Trump. Peddling conspiratorial garbage from hack sources. I saw the part where he once again talked about masks. That was so dumb.