Concerts and Loud Shows with Earplugs — How Safe Are They with 32 dB NRR Custom Earplugs?

[Digital Doc]

http://www.fox8live.com/2019/01/16/high-decibels-recorded-superdome-saints-vs-eagle-match-up/

Recent football playoffs hit 128 db on the meter. Also amazing is according to the article, they ridiculously state that as it is less than 140 db, the threhold for pain, and somehow this is not dangerous, but just "uncomfortable." This type of total misinformation, and lack of awareness has resulted in this epidemic of T/H. Terrible reporting!

 

[Ed209]

http://www.fox8live.com/2019/01/16/high-decibels-recorded-superdome-saints-vs-eagle-match-up/

Recent football playoffs hit 128 db on the meter. Also amazing is according to the article, they ridiculously state that as it is less than 140 db, the threhold for pain, and somehow this is not dangerous, but just "uncomfortable." This type of total misinformation, and lack of awareness has resulted in this epidemic of T/H. Terrible reporting!

The article lost all integrity for me after I read this:

James said. "The loudest sound we can hear is about 10 million times louder than the softest sound."

He said while 128 decibels is loud, it isn't dangerous.

"140 decibels is the threshold of pain, but it would take quite a bit more to get to a 140 decibels," James said.


First of all the loudest sound compared to the softest sound is an order of magnitude louder than 10,000,000 times! 10,000,000 times louder is mearly the difference between 0 and 70dB.


And secondly, 128dB isn't dangerous!! I think the guy is confused and probably had his meter upside down . In all seriousness though, I have no idea if the game really reached that level, but 128dB is definitely enough to cause pain for a lot of people. I would expect to see some members of the public leaving at this continued level as it's beyond insanely loud for a sporting event. In fact, it has around 100 times more energy than your average metal band. Let that sink in.

This is a chart from Starkey's website indicating the loudest peaks, on average. This doesn't include the loudest games; just what you can expect at an average event:

However, I still don't entirely trust the image above, either, as Starkey seems to be using Wikipedia and other sources for their stats. I have no idea if NFL games go that loud frequently, but if they do, I'd stay well away.

 

[Sam Bridge]

Been to a few concerts with tinnitus. The last one was with custom ear plugs and it was fine. I was well away from the speakers and found the volume level comfortable.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

He said while 128 decibels is loud, it isn't dangerous.

I mean, for 99% + of people, this is totally true. A quick peak up to 128 for 10-15 seconds like when a team scores is very unlikely to do any damage, as evidenced by the tens of thousands of people that go to football games with no issues.

 

[SugarMagnolia]

Why so loud? Above 96 db the fight or flight response begins to kick in and you get that rush of excitement you get at a concert. It's a lot of what people pay for. Deep bass goes in through bone transconductance. You don't "hear" it with your eardrum you feel it

Interesting explanation. That "rush of excitement" caused by the volume of the music is exactly what I loved about concerts. I listen to concert music at home and it's awesome music but there's nothing like that feeling of being at a show with the sound pumping and all the people pumped up. I miss that feeling, but I'll never go to a concert like that ever again.

 

[Ed209]

I mean, for 99% + of people, this is totally true. A quick peak up to 128 for 10-15 seconds like when a team scores is very unlikely to do any damage, as evidenced by the tens of thousands of people that go to football games with no issues.

128dB is right within the margin of instant hearing damage. If someone was exposed to that repeatedly, over and over again for two hours or more, then some level of hearing damage would almost certainly occur.

He also said the pain threshold begins at 140dB but for many people it starts at 120dB.

Let me just say that anything touching 130dB is extraordinarily loud. I've read a few reports that say American Football games can reach this level, so there must be some truth to it.

 

[Tinniger]

The question remains whether these precautionary measures apply equally to noise-induced and non-noise-induced tinnitus.

 

[JohnAdams]

just remember dB are a logarithmic scale, not linear.

 

[Julien87]

The question remains whether these precautionary measures apply equally to noise-induced and non-noise-induced tinnitus.

Would be glad to know that too!

 

[Tom Cnyc]

See tip#27 in the thread below
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...eone-else-who-has-tinnitus.26850/#post-307822
You might find the other tips there useful too.

Actual readings with customs show they perform much better than over the counter OSFA.

https://www.audiologyonline.com/articles/making-the-case-for-custom-12959

 

[Bill Bauer]

Actual readings with customs show they perform much better than over the counter OSFA.

https://www.audiologyonline.com/articles/making-the-case-for-custom-12959

At that link, they write

Going custom requires additional time and equipment. It may involve exposure to risk, both for the audiologist and patient. I have researched in depth the risks associated with performing earmold impressions, and it does appear that many of the medical malpractice lawsuits brought against audiologists have to do with earmold impressions gone wrong. ... Earmold impressions come with inherent, significant risks. It is not something to be taken lightly.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

At that link, they write

Your point?

 

[Tom Cnyc]

They're safe. Disclaimers are in a lot of things.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Your point?

My point is that I won't be getting custom plugs because I don't want to take a risk that my T will get worse...

 

[Tom Cnyc]

My point is that I won't be getting custom plugs because I don't want to take a risk that my T will get worse...

dude of course medical malpractice issues happen when doing molds. It's pretty much the only thing they do other than hearing tests. That doesn't indicate high frequency by any means.

Customs work better because they fit. They also limit occlusion.

Also, standard hearign protection is not immune from lawsuits. https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...ing-defective-combat-earplugs-to-us-military/

 

[Tom Cnyc]

At the Coopersafety link, see

BTW this is total nonsense. The loudest concert EVER was 143 db at it's peak. And that's a rarity. And done by a band that is KNOWN for being irresponsible with volume. This passes it off as if 150 is the norm.

It's not.

 

[linearb]

I've never worried about custom plugs because I think concerts sound fine with 32db foam plugs in, which protect better and are stupidly cheaper.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I've never worried about custom plugs because I think concerts sound fine with 32db foam plugs in, which protect better and are stupidly cheaper.

How do they protect better? FWIW my customs have a NRR of 33db. You can change the filter.

 

[Bill Bauer]

BTW this is total nonsense. The loudest concert EVER was 143 db at it's peak. And that's a rarity. And done by a band that is KNOWN for being irresponsible with volume. This passes it off as if 150 is the norm.

I am not sure what you were talking about. The link in the text that you quoted was about something else.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I am not sure what you were talking about. The link in the text that you quoted was about something else.

The info in the cooper safety link.

 

[Alue]

http://www.fox8live.com/2019/01/16/high-decibels-recorded-superdome-saints-vs-eagle-match-up/

Recent football playoffs hit 128 db on the meter. Also amazing is according to the article, they ridiculously state that as it is less than 140 db, the threhold for pain, and somehow this is not dangerous, but just "uncomfortable." This type of total misinformation, and lack of awareness has resulted in this epidemic of T/H. Terrible reporting!

He's an audiologist too. What an idiot!

 

[Alue]

I know I wouldn't risk concert with plugs now, but my ears seem more susceptible than most. Most people are probably okay with earplugs at concerts.

Even before getting tinnitus, I found concerts uncofterbly loud and because of this had only been to a handful in my life.

 

[Bill Bauer]

The info in the cooper safety link.

You must be talking about the part that says
"Painful
150 dB = Rock Concerts at Peak"

The reason I cited that link was that it talks about how to figure out what noise reduction you get when you have dual protection. They also talk about how to adjust the noise reduction rating to account for improper insertion and get a conservative estimate of the noise reduction that you would actually get.

All of that is good information, as I've seen the same ideas on 3M's website and elsewhere.

The reason they mentioned concerts is that they needed an example of a place where one might get exposed to 150 dB noise.

In any case, who cares what the dB rating the concerts have?! Multiple people got permanent spikes after attending concerts while wearing ear protection. That is all you need to know when you have to decide whether to attend one of those concerts (assuming you are determined to ensure [at any cost] that your T doesn't permanently get worse).

 

[kelpiemsp]

Something major is getting lost in translation. Peak means instantaneous. Time is an INTEGRAL component. A toilet seat dropping may peak at 120dB. But it's only a few milliseconds.

This isn't even in the same universe as a tone being played at 120db continuous which would drive many mad when played for even a few minutes.

 

[Marko Nakovski]

You can go sometimes but usually you must stay away from speakers, always prefer going outdoors over indoors, good earplugs that fit your ears and try not to stay more than 2 hours. I was doing this regularly to nightclubs and bars especially in the summer and only sometimes in indoor nightclubs. When I was wearing my silicone protectors I always had nasty spikes for 5-7 days but when I wore Audio Flare Titanium Pro I had spikes too but 3 or 4 days at most. Sometimes only 1 or 2 days. But now I did some terrible mistake when shooting with gun indoor just once and now I have severe hyperacusis ...

 

[Ed209]

Something major is getting lost in translation. Peak means instantaneous. Time is an INTEGRAL component. A toilet seat dropping may peak at 120dB. But it's only a few milliseconds.

This isn't even in the same universe as a tone being played at 120db continuous which would drive many mad when played for even a few minutes.

Exactly this. At no point do they saying if it was a fast, slow, or impulse measurement they were taking. The most important measurement over time is the leq, and I would hazard a guess that most sporting events are around 80dB.

 

[RingerBell]

There is a peak measure for instantaneous impulse noise, LcPeak, and that is measured in C-weighted decibels, unlike the 8 hour weighted noise exposure that is measured in dB(A). In EU the limiting value for the LcPeak seems to be 140 dB(C). The directive can be found here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2003/10/2008-12-11

 

[racerfish]

I would avoid concerts even with ear plugs.

 

[Ken219]

Hi, I would like some opinions regarding how effective custom ear plugs would be if I decided to attend loud public events. The ear plugs are 32 dB. Thank you.

Do not decide! Not worth the risk!

 

[jeannie]

I just went and seen Metallica last week and was right behind people on the floor.wasnt right up to stage but definitely close enough.i wore custom earplugs and took earmuffs and wore them.tinnitus was louder the next day but went back down to normal.i think it was louder the next day because I was worried about it spiking and not going down.