Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19) and Tinnitus

I don’t have time to debate all your mostly invalid points, except that posting news articles instead of data doesn’t help your case. If you care so much in displaying statistics, then get the facts of the percentage of ppl that need ICU stays based on the seasonal flu, the average and median duration of those stays, and compare that to the current COVID-19 data.

Also just a correction COVID-19 has not been in the US 3 months. That would mean it was in the US in early January, which unless you have some secret source of information no one believes is the case. The first case of community spread (outside of princess cruise) was around one month ago.

The majority of economists are actually surprised the bull market lasted as long as it did. Recessions happen and are part of the normal economic cycle.

If you think the economy was recession proof entering 2020 because Goldman Sachs told you so, I have no other words!

 

Am I taking this new rule of social distancing too seriously?

 

@lcj -- I applaud your diplomatic touch.

 

How convenient.

Apparently it does since you're not even making an attempt to address most of the points I made.

Your exact words were:

and

The answer to both of those questions was yes. I provided links to support that fact.

That's not what I said.

"It began with Wei Guixian, a seafood trader. Wei took ill on December 10th, nearly three months ago.

https://www.exponentialview.co/p/-after-the-virus

"It was on Dec. 10 that she first started to feel sick. Thinking she was getting a cold, she walked to a small local clinic to get some treatment and then went back to work."

"Eight days later, the 57-year-old was barely conscious in a hospital bed, one of the first suspected cases in a coronavirus epidemic that has paralyzed China and gripped the globe."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-it-all-started-chinas-early-coronavirus-missteps-11583508932

That's correct.

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) today confirmed the second infection with 2019 Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in the United States has been detected in Illinois."

"The patient returned to the U.S. from Wuhan on January 13, 2020, and called a health care provider after experiencing symptoms a few days later."

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p0124-second-travel-coronavirus.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/2nd-coronavirus-case-confirmed-u-s-cdc-reports-n1121911

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2...avirus-chicago-second-case-transmission-virus

https://www.aappublications.org/news/2020/01/24/coronavirus012420

https://abc7chicago.com/5880033/

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/c...-who-returned-from-wuhan-on-jan-13-2020-01-24

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/...-chicago-cdc-says/DHYDZYJR6FH7BI5C2KMKLHLGFY/

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/202...se-in-united-states-health-officials-say.html

https://myfox8.com/news/cdc-confirms-2nd-case-of-coronavirus-in-us/

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loc...in-1st-human-to-human-case-in-us-cdc/2210301/

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/.../2nd-u-s-case-of-wuhan-coronavirus-confirmed/

https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/deadly-coronavirus-chicago-woman-2nd-confirmed-u-s-case

https://kmox.radio.com/articles/news/health-officials-confirm-a-2nd-case-of-coronavirus-in-illino

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coronavirus-outbreak-2nd-us-case-confirmed-in-chicago/ar-BBZiiGp

https://www.whec.com/news/-2nd-case-of-coronavirus-confirmed-in-us/5622022/

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200124/cdc-confirms-second-us-coronavirus-case

https://www.wtvr.com/2020/01/24/cdc-says-2nd-case-of-coronavirus-has-been-confirmed-in-the-u-s

https://www.wwno.org/post/2nd-us-case-wuhan-coronavirus-confirmed

https://www.wabe.org/a-second-u-s-case-of-wuhan-coronavirus-is-confirmed/

https://www.woodtv.com/news/national/chicago-woman-becomes-2nd-us-case-of-new-virus-from-china/

https://www.livescience.com/second-us-person-tested-positive-new-coronavirus.html

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/health-care/first-case-coronavirus-confirmed-chicago

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/2nd-case-of-wuhan-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-confirmed-in-chicago/

"A growing number of American economists are bullish about growth in the coming year."

"The National Association for Business Economics said in a survey released Monday that 67% of respondents expect America's gross domestic product -- the most complete measure of the nation's economy -- to grow by 1.1% to 2% this year. A growing number of respondents (30%, compared to 20% in October) expect even higher growth of up to 3%."

"The survey of 97 NABE members about US business conditions was conducted in late December and early January, when several economic bright signs became apparent."

"Fears of a recession have abated and businesses are confident about the health of the US economy."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/27/economy/nabe-growth-gdp/index.html

 

I also worry about this. If investment money gets scarce, a lot of medtech startups will turn belly-up.

Although I can also imagine the opposite: the Fed and other central banks engage the quantum hyperdrives on their money prints and the markets will be flooded in cash like never before. Which would increase inflation and hurt non-rich people (as usual), but companies like the ones we depend on for our treatments would survive.

 

If our governments were to act before the start of February, a lot of it could have been prevented...

Yes, according to the visualization above, North America began experiencing this epidemic about 2-3 weeks ago.

 

Welcome to the club.

 

I wish I could do that during the meeting I am required to attend tomorrow.

The dramatization of the concept of "herd immunity" in the movie "No Country for Old Men"

 

I don't care to debate with you because you wear people down, not because you are right.

But since you asked, I will address a few points that you made:
1) It's not a good idea (for your own credibility) to use outliers to try to prove your point
"Hinderliter spent 58 days in the ICU"
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/carolinekee/healthy-man-flu-coma-almost-dies-vaccine
I think that even you might realize that this article was only newsworthy because the event was such an outlier, and therefore I think it actually detracts from the point that you were trying to make. If you care to do an actual comparison, take % of patients needing ICU care, and the mean/median/std deviation of their stays from a peer-reviewed journal for both the regular flu and covid-19.

2) You cherry-pick articles (I won't even call it data) to support your conclusions

Since you used the National Associate for Business Economics as an example.

https://www.newsweek.com/half-americans-are-worried-that-major-recession-coming-survey-1464387
"A survey released Monday from the National Associate for Business Economics found that 80 percent of economists think that the economy will slow further. Twenty-four percent think that a recession will start by mid-2020, and 69 percent think one will begin by mid-2021."

3) Your point about the 3 month period is ridiculous. So if the virus had remained in China and never made it to the US, you would say "see it's killed 0 people in the US in a 3 month period. So not deadly!" Of course the period in consideration needs to start at the time of first community spread.

 

On a bright side a bit of social isolation won’t hurt anyone, especially us that are already immune to it thanks to tinnitus

 

This is not how I operate, at least, not how I used to operate. As I mentioned in another post, my apartment has a small refrigerator, so it couldn't hold extra food. I would buy extra canned foods if there were any canned foods I ate, but I don't eat canned food so I don't really know what I would buy. I actually bought two cans of food out of fear thinking that canned food would be better than no food, but the thought of eating food from a can grosses me out. I'm hoping I'll never have to use those cans.

"Impossible to get groceries after 8:30" - I would probably be dead. Nowadays I'm married so my husband drives me to the market once or twice a week and we buy a lot at once, but in my glorious single days, I used to stop by the market in the evenings when they were less crowded.

I think we're all learning about the different lifestyles people have based on where they live. For me, I depend on a specialty market that has foods I can eat on my restricted diet. Easier to obtain items I can get at any market so that stuff is generally available 24/7 within a ten minute walk. I don't buy more than a week's worth of food at a time because otherwise the food just rots in the fridge.

 

Yes, I came to this lifestyle from a basically suburban upbringing and then living in dense urban zones for a while, so I know the tradeoffs. Before we exiled ourselves up here, I could walk to Whole Foods or drive to 2 other stores, all in ~5-15 minutes. It was a major calibration to get here.

I am very lazy when it comes to food, so I don't buy what I consider "gross" canned goods (low quality stuff, espetiaslly stuff with low quality meat in it), but I think I could live basically forever off of black beans dumped out of a can, with diced tomatoes dumped out of a can on top of them and maybe some rice. It's not very exciting but I eat exactly that a lot (though usually with fresh tomatoes) because it takes me ~4 minutes to make 2 meals worth of calories.

 

A man after my own heart! One of my "staples" is to stock up on chia seeds (very easy to eat by blending in smoothies). They're exceptionally nutritious, and one of the best natural sources for Omega 3 fatty acids. And... they keep exceptionally well in storage, being able to stay fresh for 2-3 years+. We have enough in our house to subsist just on that for a few weeks if necessary (besides all our our bulk supplies we usually have 3-4 month stockpile on).

We got into this habit a few years ago when it became clear just how devastating the next Northwest Cascadia earthquake could be, majorly affecting areas all the way from N. California to B.C. Canada. The last "great" cascadia earthquake happened in 1700, and we're coming due for the next one. Just like the current pandemic, it's inevitable. Too bad governments don't prepare more for the "inevitables". -- Here's my favorite source for chia seeds (recent email)


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The west has really forgotten what disease spread looks like when there are no vaccinations or easy cures. The closest to that we have is AIDS which has fallen off the radar over the decades, but beyond that you'd have to go back to things like polio and smallpox.

 

I think the best way to handle this is to prioritize your meals. Work through the freshest stuff first and only break into the cans and dried goods if you can no longer shop due to safety or shortages. That should easily reduce one's need to shop to once a week at the most, which seems like an acceptable risk.

Also in my case this is probably going to be the catalyst for me to finally try fasting to lose weight, intermittent or not intermittent. I have already been leading a shut-in life as a telecommuter and I have the body to match my sedentary lifestyle. Odds are people in the US will gain rather than lose weight by the end of this ordeal.

 

I am also thinking intermittent fasting may extend my food supply. Or at least increase the time until I am down to just beans and rice.

 

You're rationalizing.

It's literally what you asked for:

Worst case as in an extreme deviation from the mean.

ICU stays of 58 days >ICU of 20 days.

Again it was exactly what you asked for.

It detracts from the point you were trying to make by proving you wrong.

I gave you what you asked for and now you're moving the goalposts. If you want to go to the trouble of doing it yourself you're free to do so.

As opposed to endlessly pontificating with minimal sources to support your claims?

That was before this happened:

"The jobs market turned in a stellar performance in November, with nonfarm payrolls surging by 266,000 and the unemployment rate falling to 3.5%"

"This is a blowout number and the U.S. economy continues to be all about the jobs,” Tony Bedikian, head of global markets for Citizens Bank said in a note. “The unemployment rate is at a 50-year low and wages are increasing"

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/06/us-nonfarm-payrolls-november-2019.html

I was referencing the start of the outbreak as whole since it was brought to the US within a matter of weeks. And by your definition...

I was correct. It's been in the US since January 13th, 2020.

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p0124-second-travel-coronavirus.html

 

@GlennS -- But there was an easy cure for polio. I think there's a strong probability there's an easy cure for coronavirus as well, using the same method; IV Vitamin C.
......................................................

For those interested in the political aspect of this, below is a snippet from THIS ARTICLE:

Sixty-eight percent of Democratic voters are worried that an immediate family member might catch the coronavirus, compared with just 40 percent of Republicans who agree. Fifty-six percent of Democrats believe their day-to-day lives will change in a major way, versus only 26 percent of Republicans. And 79 percent of Democrats say the worst is yet to come, versus just 40 percent of Republicans who hold the same opinion.

Just as importantly, if not more so, while 61% of Democrats said they're steering clear of gatherings, roughly half (30%) of Republicans said the same thing. More than a third (36%) of Democrats are avoiding restaurants during the crisis, while only 12% of Republicans are making the same choice.

Democratic pollster Jeff Horwitt of Hart Research Associates, who conducted the survey with Republican pollster Bill McInturff and his firm, Public Opinion Strategies, said, "Simply put, it is very clear that partisanship has infected our views of the coronavirus."

The latest survey from Quinnipiac pointed in the same direction: across every age group, Republicans are simply less concerned about the public-health crisis than their Democratic counterparts.

For weeks, as GOP leaders and conservative media downplayed the threat, this was more than a political annoyance. The concern has long been that voters on the right, who've been told repeatedly not to listen to mainstream sources, would take the conservative rhetoric seriously, and conclude that the coronavirus is comparable to the common flu, and the global reaction is little more than a scheme to affect the 2020 election.

Such talk had a predictable effect.

 

It wasn't very tactful of me to call canned food gross as if it was all the same. On top of having food allergies, I'm as fussy as a child. Certain textures disgust me and when I think of canned food I think of mushy vegetables. I actually bought two bags of organic frozen vegetables and two cans of organic pineapple with the hope that I'll never have to eat them. We rabbits like our veggies to be crunchy.

 

My manager came down with (what is presumably) coronavirus last Tuesday evening. The source would be a friend of his who came back from a skiing trip in Italy and who was one of the first confirmed cases in Belgium. They spent 15 minutes together in the same car 5 days previously. My manager was refused a test at the hospital as they only test vulnerable groups of people in Belgium, due to a lack of test kits, and was sent home with no clear diagnosis. I’m playing the waiting game since then, as i was in a one hour meeting with him That same Tuesday but no symptoms as of yet (although mild headache, some fatigue and a very mild cough could indicate a very light version of COVID-19). His situation worsened on Sunday (otherwise healthy 47 year old, previous smoker though).

 

Coronavirus: It’s Time to Debunk Claims That Vitamin C Could Cure It

 

I've noticed these kinds of articles seem to be proliferating online these days; apparently because they make for pretty good clickbait. Given how poorly researched they are, I consider them to be worth about a dime a dozen. Sure, there's usually "some" factual information, but that doesn't even begin to offset the false impressions they seem to intentionally fabricate. -- You may not have reviewed several of my earlier posts on the history of therapeutic use of Vit. C, or you would have seen some pretty convincing information and evidence that directly refutes the gist of the title of your link.

The author even admits in the article: "Though I have said vitamin C is unlikely to be a dramatic cure for COVID-19, the fact that it can promote good immune function means it would be going too far to say there will be no effect." IOW, he doesn't know whether Vit. C therapy can effectively treat the coronavirus or not. Which--if you look at it closely--makes the title of his article look pretty disingenuous. -- I'll copy and paste below something I posted earlier that you may want to consider. I've posted a quite a bit more than this, but I'll let you decide whether or not to go back and review it.

...The basis for using high doses of Vit. C to prevent and combat virus-caused illness may be traced back to vitamin C’s early success against polio, first reported in the late 1940s. Many people are unaware, even surprised, to learn this. Further clinical evidence built up over the decades, leading to an anti-virus protocol published in 1980.

It is important to remember that preventing and treating respiratory infections with large amounts of vitamin C is well established. Those who believe that vitamin C generally has merit, but massive doses are ineffective or somehow harmful, will do well to read the original papers for themselves. To dismiss the work of these doctors simply because they had success so long ago sidesteps a more important question: Why has the benefit of their clinical experience not been presented to the public by responsible governmental authorities, especially in the face of a viral pandemic?

Read the full press release at Orthomolecular.com​

 

This is from Dr Richard Cheng, you can look up his FB page:

https://www.brighteon.com/d39fac11-7259-4ac7-9b63-4604cd6fb5f0

 

Thanks for posting this @valeri -- The video that came up for me at the link was sideways, so I went to YouTube and was able to watch it just fine. Below the link is one of the comments below the YouTube video.

How to take Vit C in prevention of Covid-19 infection -- 7-min. video

"God bless you doctor. I followed this advice back in Feb when my husband and I were experiencing symptoms. This was during the height of the virus scare. We are in Malaysia. My husband exhibited severe coughing, chills, high fevers, aches. Upon administration of a huge dose of vit. C he was well in 6 hours."
​

Ran across another interesting comment. Just one more example of how a lot of forces seem to be at play to keep the value of inexpensive Vit. C therapy from becoming more widely accepted.

"Sorry hear that one of your videos got taken down by YT. Keep up the good fight for the truth."​

One more...

"Thank You Dr. Cheng, I have been sharing your videos here in the United States as have many others. The word is getting out even though Big Pharma is doing their best to stop your information for their own profits. The scarcity of Vitamin C here is evidence that the word is getting out. God Bless You"​

 

LOL

Marxists Do live in an upside down word...

I am placing you on my Ignore list. I hope your tinnitus eventually gets better.

 

@Ed209

Ed, how are you and your family doing?

 

This is so dumb: The demand for all of the goods is about to fall by 7% or so.

 

Not a controlled study but people with type A blood may be more at risk for more severe symptoms:

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/soc...ay-be-more-vulnerable-coronavirus-china-study

China and the US have a moderate number of type A alleles (varies by reason as well) but Europe has a relatively higher percentage and Canada may be among the most at risk.

If this ends up being significant, then South and Central America should fare much better than most of the world.

Note: this article is not a peer reviewed study but it wouldn't hurt to be additionally cautious if you are A, just in case.

 

To add to above, here is a peer reviewed article about blood type and the first SARS virus:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18818423/

Type O seems less at risk but obviously there are many factors.

 

"relax guys it's not even 50 deaths"