Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19) and Tinnitus

[FGG]

I'm not anti-vax at all but 21% reported a serious adverse reaction to the higher dose of the mRNA vaccine (like Moderna, the biotech the US government has spent 100s of millions funding).

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022483

That seems concerning. Maybe it's time to try a different vaccine approach. E.g.. AstraZenaca's.

 

[shasta0863]

Over 4 million cases of coronavirus reported in the US. That's the consequence of trying to put the economy before health issues.

The exact opposite happened, and all it did was delay the ability to acquire herd immunity while simultaneously crippling the economy. For something considered "flu like" for basically everyone under 50, with an extremely LOW death rate, like a bad flu season, it seems insane we did anything but open up.

Death rates have plummeted, with more infected. Care to explain?

Take away New York and New Jersey, where they essentially murdered elderly on purpose by putting state orders to stick COVID sick patients in nursing facilities, and the country is doing just fine.

Not sticking tubes down peoples throats and killing them, is helping a lot. Using actual treatments (hydroxy and zinc) and other things that actually helped people (but were ignored and slammed by fake research articles, one which was exposed, and anti-Trump fanatical medical professionals) were ignored and left people to die that could of been saved.

Instead of protecting the vulnerable (elderly and pre-existing conditions) like we should have, we put everyone into that camp stupidity and destroyed the economy and peoples lives.

There's also the little problem of people being MARKED COVID positive without actually having COVID (See Florida, Texas and others where this is news) or being marked a COVID positive death when something else actually killed them. Or counting deaths as COVID with no postmortem testing of COVID.

No, the real problem was listening to the Chinese owned WHO, not stopping all flights from there and not shutting down our borders sooner. Which, if you remember correctly, top Democrats and the WHO, we're in Q1 of this year saying go to those Chinese festivals, go eat at Chinese restaurants to stick it to those ole bigots, don't fear-monger, don't wear a mask (which don't work) and so on.

The data seems crystal clear to me. Any concern over "deaths" is attributed to NY/NJ governors essentially killing them, political medical professionals denying people treatments early on that were shown to work, because well, Trump and stuff. The left rooting on protests and riots, since apparently COVID takes a break there, but not in a church or "critical" liquor store. And using bad treatments early on like ventilators which we knew from Chinese doctors early on in correspondence with many in the U.S medical field that ventilator death rate was extremely high and wasn't what was needed for them (because COVID19 doesn't act like a typical ARDS case)

 

[shasta0863]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...wear-mask-prevention-virus-column/5494984002/

"Mask deniers."
I think people should be allowed to tell covid fanatics a different narrative and allowed to express their rights including doubts and questions about the coronavirus without this kind of oppression. "Mask deniers." It's getting ridiculous. It scares me.

Think about this: There's decades of research that shows masks don't stop viruses. We have influenza studies on this. There's literally been zero controlled studies in an environment to show COVID and masks working, let alone that asymptomatic people are spreading it (which all actual data shows they're not).

Mask goons are the worst, because they do it for political, moralistic grandstanding. It's literally faith based science at this point, and seems geared only to attack Trump and not to actually use the apparently out-dated scientific method to make rational points and decisions.

You can give this data and research compiled to mask cultists:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13Xt6pN_VASGOd3abMafH2Jj3Y2MMnj9NYF512KJLJ2M/edit

 

[Juan]

I think the US and specially Trump supporters are in denial about how badly this health emergency has been managed by the US government. I think it is hard to do it worse.

 

[PeteJ]

Think about this: There's decades of research that shows masks don't stop viruses. We have influenza studies on this. There's literally been zero controlled studies in an environment to show COVID and masks working, let alone that asymptomatic people are spreading it (which all actual data shows they're not).

Mask goons are the worst, because they do it for political, moralistic grandstanding. It's literally faith based science at this point, and seems geared only to attack Trump and not to actually use the apparently out-dated scientific method to make rational points and decisions.

You can give this data and research compiled to mask cultists:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13Xt6pN_VASGOd3abMafH2Jj3Y2MMnj9NYF512KJLJ2M/edit

You're exactly right. Also, some authorities initially said you didn't need masks and they weren't effective then later backtracked! LOL!

The Canadian authority for public health said if you didn't have COVID-19, you didn't need a mask. Then she did a 180!

https://nationalpost.com/news/canad...-wearing-face-masks-coming-today-trudeau-says

People are brainwashed into this alarmist thinking and that fear also makes them angry and hostile when you question their thinking.

 

[linearb]

I think the US and specially Trump supporters are in denial about how badly this health emergency has been managed by the US government. I think it is hard to do it worse.

Anti-science people gonna be anti-science. I just do what I need to protect my family. At the moment that means distancing and n95s; if we hit a point where full-face ported n100s seem reasonable to me then I will buy them regardless of what anyone else seems to think.

There's no point in trying to debate talking points that have been resoundingly invalidated for months already; time is better spent assessing the reality of one's own situation and making the best preparations possible for what is shaping up to be a very, very difficult fall and winter (for social and financial reasons which are related to but not created by the pandemic, as well as the pandemic itself).

I hope everyone stays well and safe.

 

[Juan]

Anti-science people gonna be anti-science. I just do what I need to protect my family. At the moment that means distancing and n95s; if we hit a point where full-face ported n100s seem reasonable to me then I will buy them regardless of what anyone else seems to think.

There's no point in trying to debate talking points that have been resoundingly invalidated for months already; time is better spent assessing the reality of one's own situation and making the best preparations possible for what is shaping up to be a very, very difficult fall and winter (for social and financial reasons which are related to but not created by the pandemic, as well as the pandemic itself).

I hope everyone stays well and safe.

The upcoming economic crisis is going to be a pill hard to swallow for many Americans but Trump is for the moment trying to sugarcoat it with government checks.

I hope people are realistic enough to properly evaluate how hard this is going to be financially in the next year, as 2021 will be probably much worse than this year.

 

[linearb]

The upcoming economic crisis is going to be a pill hard to swallow for many Americans but Trump is for the moment trying to sugarcoat it with government checks.

I hope people are realistic enough to properly evaluate how hard this is going to be financially in the next year, as 2021 will be probably much worse than this year.

You can properly evaluate all you want, the bottom line is the safety nets are gone, even before COVID-19 we were in a situation where most families couldn't pay an unexpected bill for $1000.

So, what is there to evaluate? For me, I know the length of time I can keep paying all minimal expenses based on unemployment after losing this job, in the situation where the economy is vaporized and I can't find another. After that, we'd be looking at doing whatever we could to find a renter for this place, and then whatever the outcome there, moving into the basement of my parents' owned home, and putting whatever free time we have into finishing it into an apartment.

You will note that in this situation I have some amount of savings, as well as parents who own a home that could and would willingly hold my family. Since most families don't have the first of those things, they may well lack the second, too.

Medical fatigue is a huge concern as this drags on and as we see second spikes in places that had hit a plateau but are rising again. I'm too tuned into nurse twitter for my own good, but the number of people describing intolerable conditions, large numbers of providers being burned out, sick, or quitting, is very concerning.

I will also just point out at this time that a large number of doctors and nurses in their mid 50s or younger, in the US and abroad, have died of COVID-19. That is not something which happens routinely as a result of treating influenza patients.

 

[FGG]

I will also just point out at this time that a large number of doctors and nurses in their mid 50s or younger, in the US and abroad, have died of COVID-19. That is not something which happens routinely as a result of treating influenza patients.

They get harder hit because their initial viral load is higher, unfortunately. While masks don't stop 100% of the virus, they do reduce initial viral load (which is a factor in virulence) but if you are exposed over and over and over again, you are still going to (generally) get a much larger inoculation than the general public.

 

[PeteJ]

@shasta0863, it's pretty bad that people are going to lie about COVID-1984 like above and use the plandemic as a scapegoat for the economy which was always in danger of faltering.

The setup is all too obvious.

 

[Alexandor Scott]

It looks like there is growing concern that COVID-19 can cause hearing loss and tinnitus, even in otherwise asymptomatic cases. I wasn't all that nervous about catching it before, as I'm 30 and in great health, but reading things like this sure does make me just want to stay in the house until there's a vaccine.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...ems-even-with-no-other-symptoms/#2f40b9d01902

 

[shasta0863]

It looks like there is growing concern that COVID-19 can cause hearing loss and tinnitus, even in otherwise asymptomatic cases. I wasn't all that nervous about catching it before, as I'm 30 and in great health, but reading things like this sure does make me just want to stay in the house until there's a vaccine.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...ems-even-with-no-other-symptoms/#2f40b9d01902

There's really no evidence there and a lot of speculation (and talking about treatments that could be ototoxic). If people were losing their hearing and had tinnitus, we'd know by now.

@shasta0863, it's pretty bad that people are going to lie about COVID-1984 like above and use the plandemic as a scapegoat for the economy which was always in danger of faltering.

The setup is all too obvious.

It's depressing. Political power and hatred for Trump infects everything, even the sciences.

 

[linearb]

They get harder hit because their initial viral load is higher, unfortunately. While masks don't stop 100% of the virus, they do reduce initial viral load (which is a factor in virulence) but if you are exposed over and over and over again, you are still going to (generally) get a much larger inoculation than the general public.

Granted; the same thing would happen treating flu patients, but we don't see the same kind of burnout and mortality. Having a vaccine is certainly part of that, but, as we all know, flu vaccines are nowhere near 100% so that can't account for 100% of it.

The staggering, stark, order-of-magnitude difference in CFR between the two diseases can and does explain it, obviously.

It looks like there is growing concern that COVID-19 can cause hearing loss and tinnitus, even in otherwise asymptomatic cases. I wasn't all that nervous about catching it before, as I'm 30 and in great health, but reading things like this sure does make me just want to stay in the house until there's a vaccine.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...ems-even-with-no-other-symptoms/#2f40b9d01902

Any viral infection upper respiratory can do this and does in some cases.

That article is obnoxiously written but the point is well taken; not getting sick is good. Which brings me back to, not getting covid is a lot better than getting covid. And, not taking quinolone drugs for no good reason is also better than taking them (much of the actual research to date focuses on ototoxicy of chloroquine; it may not actually do much to treat COVID, but it definitely bombs your hearing).

I'm 40 and in good health and my mortality risk from COVID could be as high as 1:250 in some of the larger studies which is like 1-2 orders of magnitude over the flu mortality risk for my demographic.

 

[linearb]

also not very reassuring

Two new studies out of Germany suggest that even if patients escape hospitalization, the virus can damage the heart.

It's too soon to determine if the damage is permanent, but the findings are not encouraging.

The first study, published Monday in the Journal of the American Medical Association Cardiology, looked at the cardiac MRIs of 100 relatively young patients who had recovered from COVID-19 and compared them to MRIs of 100 similar people who had not contracted the disease. Two-thirds of the patients recovered at home.

Two months following their recovery, 78 infected patients were found to have structural changes to their hearts. A biomarker indicating myocardial injury similar to that occurring in heart attacks was found in 76 patients. Sixty patients suffered inflammation of the heart.

 

[Juan]

You can properly evaluate all you want, the bottom line is the safety nets are gone, even before COVID-19 we were in a situation where most families couldn't pay an unexpected bill for $1000.

Yeah, I dont really understand American finances, with people buying 10 houses with very little down payment, just as a house of cards. Houses to rent out... if it was risk free and so profitable, why would anyone rent a house in the US?

Why wouldn't everyone pyramid into the real estate bubble?

It is like how few people save in the US... when they get some money they either spend it or "invest" it (more or less wisely).

Aside from the economy, I think this year is going to be very tough on people with previous health issues or with mental health problems. And the general population, healthy people, could also be affected after being locked down for some time, and having their lives restricted due to COVID-19 protocols, at work and outside work.

 

[PeteJ]

It looks like there is growing concern that COVID-19 can cause hearing loss and tinnitus, even in otherwise asymptomatic cases. I wasn't all that nervous about catching it before, as I'm 30 and in great health, but reading things like this sure does make me just want to stay in the house until there's a vaccine.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...ems-even-with-no-other-symptoms/#2f40b9d01902

What nonsense. They had hearing loss already, then supposedly were tested positive afterwards for COVID-1984 and the coronavirus was blamed for it. The MSM is relentless with its lies and spin.

 

[PeteJ]

There's really no evidence there and a lot of speculation (and talking about treatments that could be ototoxic). If people were losing their hearing and had tinnitus, we'd know by now.

It's depressing. Political power and hatred for Trump infects everything, even the sciences.

People are being duped by anything. They read something in the MSM or from public health agencies then take it as gospel.

The truth is there is a division in medical conclusions and findings. The ones who differ on the official narrative is relatively small but it's there. But, people ignore those virus pathologists.

No one on here has got tinnitus AFAIK and no claims that tinnitus made them worse. Do any of them even know someone personally who got it? I don't.

I know someone, maybe two people who know someone but that's nothing. It's even less than knowing someone who caught a cold.

 

[Alexandor Scott]

People are being duped by anything. They read something in the MSM or from public health agencies then take it as gospel.

The truth is there is a division in medical conclusions and findings. The ones who differ on the official narrative is relatively small but it's there. But, people ignore those virus pathologists.

No one on here has got tinnitus AFAIK and no claims that tinnitus made them worse. Do any of them even know someone personally who got it? I don't.

I know someone, maybe two people who know someone but that's nothing. It's even less than knowing someone who caught a cold.

I know probably close to 30 people that have had confirmed cases, one of whom passed away from it. I'm surprised to hear you don't know anyone personally that's had it, assuming you live in the US.

 

[Alexandor Scott]

What nonsense. They had hearing loss already, then supposedly were tested positive afterwards for COVID-1984 and the coronavirus was blamed for it. The MSM is relentless with its lies and spin.

I'm not sure why you would consider this study from the American Journal of Otolaryngology to be MSM and full of lies and spin, but okay. It also seems you missed these two lines. "Their age ranged between 20 and 50 years to avoid any age-related hearing affection. Patients who had definite symptoms of COVID-19 infection as well as those who had a history of hearing loss or a history of any known cause of hearing loss were excluded from the examined sample"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0196070920301654?via=ihub

 

[Alexandor Scott]

Any viral infection upper respiratory can do this and does in some cases.

That article is obnoxiously written but the point is well taken; not getting sick is good. Which brings me back to, not getting covid is a lot better than getting covid. And, not taking quinolone drugs for no good reason is also better than taking them (much of the actual research to date focuses on ototoxicy of chloroquine; it may not actually do much to treat COVID, but it definitely bombs your hearing).

I'm 40 and in good health and my mortality risk from COVID could be as high as 1:250 in some of the larger studies which is like 1-2 orders of magnitude over the flu mortality risk for my demographic.

I agree, the article kinda sucks but the sources they used seemed pretty legit. Did you happen to take a look at the study they cited from the American Journal or Otolaryngology? I've read through it and it seems pretty compelling. I'm also not the most scientifically inclined person in the world however so it is quite possible having read through it that I missed any number of flaws.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0196070920301654?via=ihub

 

[Tanni]

I know someone, maybe two people who know someone but that's nothing. It's even less than knowing someone who caught a cold.

I know two people who have died from it.

 

[Tanni]

I know probably close to 30 people that have had confirmed cases, one of whom passed away from it. I'm surprised to hear you don't know anyone personally that's had it, assuming you live in the US.

He's Canadian.

 

[PeteJ]

I know probably close to 30 people that have had confirmed cases, one of whom passed away from it. I'm surprised to hear you don't know anyone personally that's had it, assuming you live in the US.

You're 100% they had no other medical condition? I will guess no.

 

[PeteJ]

I'm not sure why you would consider this study from the American Journal of Otolaryngology to be MSM and full of lies and spin, but okay. It also seems you missed these two lines. "Their age ranged between 20 and 50 years to avoid any age-related hearing affection. Patients who had definite symptoms of COVID-19 infection as well as those who had a history of hearing loss or a history of any known cause of hearing loss were excluded from the examined sample"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0196070920301654?via=ihub

Conclusion states "requires further research." How common are virus infections causing hearing loss? Acoustic trauma is way more prevalent? I wonder who funded that study? People here have been complaining about ENTs (in Otolaryngology) and there are no departments which help tinnitus sufferers and even some people claim hearing tests injured them or harmed their ears with certain instruments.

So, no, I am not convinced, dude. There's nothing there that's convincing.

 

[PeteJ]

We were first introduced to COVID-19 in January and since then, one claim that it causes hearing loss... how many people in total are believed to have contracted COVID-19 in total (globally)?

How many claim hearing loss? That would be very significant and certainly reported in large numbers if happening.

 

[FGG]

How common are virus infections causing hearing loss?

Info about viral etiologies of SSHL:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4222184/

https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/324210

The last link lists it as prevalent in about 10% of SSHL cases (though they did lump it with Toxoplasmosis) so less common than acoustic traumas, you are correct, but absolutely not rare.

Viral causes are also the leading cause of congenital deafness, especially CMV.

 

[Alexandor Scott]

You're 100% they had no other medical condition? I will guess no.

The person that passed away from it was my Aunts mother, and she was in otherwise excellent health. So yeah, I do know that she didnt have any other medical conditions.

 

[Alexandor Scott]

How many claim hearing loss? That would be very significant and certainly reported in large numbers if happening.

Join the tinnitus groups on facebook. They're flooded with people claiming covid made their tinnitus worse. And just for the record, I've never claimed it's a sure thing that covid causes hearing loss/tinnitus. Im just saying that the studies and anecdotal reports I've seen are concerning. If they dont concern you, great. I also might not be concerned if I were in Canada, because my chances of catching it would be much, much lower. Unfortunately I'm in a state in the US that's seeing about a 16% positive rate and close to 2,000 cases a day with a population of 3 million. So my odds of catching it are significantly higher than yours.

 

[PeteJ]

Join the tinnitus groups on facebook. They're flooded with people claiming covid made their tinnitus worse. And just for the record, I've never claimed it's a sure thing that covid causes hearing loss/tinnitus. Im just saying that the studies and anecdotal reports I've seen are concerning. If they dont concern you, great. I also might not be concerned if I were in Canada, because my chances of catching it would be much, much lower. Unfortunately I'm in a state in the US that's seeing about a 16% positive rate and close to 2,000 cases a day with a population of 3 million. So my odds of catching it are significantly higher than yours.

Whatever. I don't think COVID-19 decided it wants to infect other places more than others. Think whatever you want though.

 

[Bill Bauer]

There's literally been zero controlled studies in an environment to show COVID and masks working

I read that there's been zero studies to justify the 6 feet/2 meter mantra. Having said that, masks will probably reduce the viral load (number of virus particles one is exposed to when one is around airborne virus). No controlled studies I know of, but common sense seems to imply that it could help. Then again, common sense is what tells you that the Earth is flat.