Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19) and Tinnitus

[Bill Bauer]

The US has been over 100k cases/day long enough to be back over 1k deaths/day in the current rolling 7 day averages for the last few days -- but we also just shattered 150k cases/day for the first time, so any way you slice it, this has never been more poorly contained than it is now.

This is an interesting visualization of disturbing data. The last few frames are pure

Now do the flu in 1959 (when those mortality figures were reported on page 40 of the newspaper).

If the US is anything like Europe, the actual excess deaths are in the normal range, slightly lower than they were back in 2019 and 2018.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

 

[linearb]

This seems like a uniquely American kind of stupidity, but I am probably wrong. @Ed209 is this nonsense happening there, too?

Last words for some, perhaps, "I AM NOT DYING OF CORONA, I AM DYING WITH CORONA!"

 

[Ed209]

@frischky I haven't been here on Tinnitus Talk for a while but would like to answer your question about the swab test.

Back in August the virus outbreak was in full mode and it was so very scary. My doctor sent me to a drive through location. My husband drove and we were in line a while. It was like a weird scary movie scene probably from having watched the on going news and being in a hot spot for the virus outbreak in Los Angeles. People were dying and hospitals were full and the anxiety overcame every inch of my body.

When we pulled up to the testing site three nurses in total body suits came to the window. I did have the swab test done and had no idea what exactly to expect. I think the anxiety was much worse.

To answer your testing question it was very uncomfortable but not exactly painful. The swab was placed inside of the nose and went up to the eye socket area. It lasted a minute or so but seemed longer. The test made my nasal passage very sore for a few days. Sore meaning... swollen. Not like a stabbing or tooth pain sensation.

I don't think you have to worry about a spike in the loudness of your tinnitus from that particular test. Mine was already very loud but not because of the test.

I think the procedure if you decide to take the test won't be as scary now. Try to find the least crowed testing site.
I had to have an appointment from my doctor. But I think you can get the test without a doctor's order.

I got the results in three/four days.

Why are you considering being tested?

Great to see you, btw, Jen. I have often thought about you and wondered how you were getting on.

 

[Ed209]

This seems like a uniquely American kind of stupidity, but I am probably wrong. @Ed209 is this nonsense happening there, too?

Last words for some, perhaps, "I AM NOT DYING OF CORONA, I AM DYING WITH CORONA!"

Unfortunately, Linearb, I think this kind of stupidity is universal and is a direct result of social media. I think it would most certainly happen over here if it's happening there.

It seems everywhere I look right now, I see people who believe the whole thing is fake.

 

[Bill Bauer]

This seems like a uniquely American kind of stupidity

Are you talking about the person who tweeted the blood libel?

"I AM NOT DYING OF CORONA, I AM DYING WITH CORONA!"

Yes, those 95 year olds and cancer patients and gunshots victims are not actually dying of coronavirus. What's your point?

 

[Bill Bauer]

people actually believe that the whole thing is fake.

It isn't fake. It is a regular flu. It is certainly there, but in the past we managed to live with it and to not care too much about it.

 

[Ed209]

It isn't fake. It is a regular flu. It is certainly there, but in the past, we managed to live with it and to not care too much about it.

Why on Earth are you still calling it a flu? Are you saying that somehow the entire worldwide scientific community have got this wrong and that they don't know what a coronavirus looks like? This would include people I know who have seen it for themselves under a microscope.

Or do you believe that every expert around the world has somehow been hoodwinked into believing it's a coronavirus when it's actually the flu?

I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Why on Earth are you still calling it a flu?

There has been no excess mortality, except for two or three weeks in March:

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

I had already replied to you with the information below, and I guess talking to you about this is hopeless.

Please read it again:

It might have surpassed 2009 swine flu (although back then people who died with it weren't counted as dying of it, and also nursing homes weren't forced to house contagious patients). It is my understanding that it is a lot less deadly than
1957-58 Asian Flu: "Approximately 1.1 million people died worldwide, according to the CDC; of those deaths, 116,000 were in the US. Most of the cases affected young children, the elderly and pregnant women."

Note, that back then they weren't inflating the numbers like they do now, and also back in 1957 the world population was 2.9 billion, which is 37% or about a third of what the world population is now. that means that the mortality per million of population was 2.7 times the death toll. To match that mortality, we would need about 3 million people to die worldwide.

The flu this year is also less deadly than 1968 "Hong Kong Flu" Pandemic. My mom caught the flu back in 1969 and came close to death.

"It started in 1968 and lasted until 1969-70. The virus responsible for the pandemic is believed to have evolved from the strain of influenza that caused the 1957 pandemic through "antigenic shift" — an abrupt, major change in the virus that results in new surface proteins, creating a virus subtype that humans have little or no immunity to because the body doesn't recognize its surface proteins. According to the CDC, approximately 1 million people around the world died from this pandemic"

The quotes above are from
https://weather.com/health/cold-flu/news/2020-01-31-5-worst-flu-outbreaks-in-recent-history

The population back in 1968 was 3.5 billion, which is 44% of today's population. To reach the same mortality rate per million of population, a flu would have to kill 2.2 million people worldwide.

So it isn't nearly as deadly, yet back then nobody has even considered lockdowns, and I am pretty sure that back in 1957 and 1968 most people weren't even aware of those pandemics.

People carry on as if this were something like the Spanish flu. Back in 1918, it killed between 50 and 100 million people. The world population in 1919 was 1.8 billion, 23% of what it is now. So to match the rate of mortality, 2020 flu has to kill at least 50 million times 7.8/1.8 = about 220 MILLION people (over 400 million, if we go with the upper estimate of 100 million). So what we have (despite all of the overestimation going on) is more than 200 times (or even more than 400 times!) Less deadly than the Spanish Flu of 1918...

the entire worldwide scientific community have got this wrong

There have been Many doctors who have been speaking out...

I'm not sure what your point is.

My point is that whatever you choose to call it, it is less deadly than the flu that in the past nobody made a big deal about.

 

[DaveN]

There has been no excess mortality, except for two or three weeks in March:

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

I had already replied to you with the information below, and I guess talking to you about this is hopeless.

Please read it again:

There have been Many doctors who have been speaking out...

My point is that whatever you choose to call it, it is less deadly than the flu that in the past nobody made a big deal about.

My healthy late 20s brother who had COVID-19 in April just had his 12th seizure last week because of it. He has had severe stomach issues and developed a heart condition as well because of this. He will be admitted within the coming weeks because the seizures aren't stopping even on anti-seizure medications (above the recommended max dosage). The flu doesn't do this...

Please, I am being sincere here, please do not downplay this by just calling it the flu.

 

[Ed209]

My healthy late 20s brother who had COVID-19 in April just had his 12th seizure last week because of it. He has had severe stomach issues and developed a heart condition as well because of this. He will be admitted within the coming weeks because the seizures aren't stopping even on anti-seizure medications (above the recommended max dosage). The flu doesn't do this...

Please, I am being sincere here, please do not downplay this by just calling it the flu.

Bill has no idea, so please don't take what he is saying to heart. The fact he is still calling this the flu speaks volumes to me.

I think the conspiracy nutters may have twisted his views somewhat.

 

[Bill Bauer]

The flu doesn't do this...

Actually - it does. The flu can have surprisingly serious complications.

Please check out my earlier post - the information is underneath "Let's look at some numbers!":

Here is an overview
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/symptoms.htm

Let's look at some numbers!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5596521/

Clinically diagnosed myocarditis, based on a combination of symptoms, elevated cardiac enzymes, and echocardiographic findings, has been reported in approximately 0.4%‐13% of hospitalized adult patients with documented influenza. Myocarditis may, however, be a more common feature in fatal influenza infections as classic histopathologic findings, including cellular infiltration and myocyte necrosis, have been found in 30%‐50% of patients at autopsy despite cardiac involvement not being clinically suspected

...

The severity of influenza‐associated myocarditis spans a wide spectrum ranging from asymptomatic to severe disease. Although recognition of influenza‐associated cardiovascular complications occurs primarily in patients with cardiac symptoms, there is some suggestion that a significant proportion of patients with influenza infection may suffer clinically unrecognized, asymptomatic myocardial injury. A Japanese study of 96 patients found that 11% of patients who were infected with influenza A (H3N2) had elevated myosin light‐chain I concentrations, a marker for myocardial injury

...

At the other end of the spectrum, a number of cardiac‐specific complications have been described in the setting of influenza‐associated myocarditis including heart failure, arrhythmias, pericardial effusion, and cardiac tamponade. Congestive heart failure, as diagnosed by regional or global hypokinesis on echo/MRI, is the most common complication and is seen in 84% (37/44) of patients with influenza‐associated myocarditis. More than half (23/37; 62%) of patients with heart failure from influenza‐associated myocarditis required advanced cardiac support therapies.

...

Although heart failure associated with influenza can be severe and cause significant hemodynamic compromise requiring advanced cardiac support therapies, recovery of cardiac function has been documented frequently in survivors.

...

Heart failure independent of myocarditis has also been described in the course of influenza infection. In one series of 124 patients hospitalized with influenza infection, 24 had echocardiograms (echo) performed and 6 (25%) of those patients had new or worsened left ventricular dysfunction

...

Another study of 600 patients in the Veterans Administration system found that 143 (24%) patients who tested positive for influenza had acute cardiac injury, 80% of which occurred within 3 days of the influenza diagnosis

...

Similar to ischemic cardiac complications, the risk of ischemic cerebral vascular accidents (CVA), or strokes, appears to be significantly increased in the days after a respiratory tract infection

...

Influenza infection can lead to a variety of neurologic complications including a number of specific clinical entities grouped together as influenza‐associated encephalitis or encephalopathy (IAE), as well as a separate syndrome known as post‐influenza encephalitis, GBS, Reye's syndrome, and Parkinsonian symptoms.

...

Epidemiologic studies that have evaluated an association between preceding influenza and GBS suggest that influenza may be an important and under‐recognized etiology of GBS.125, 126, 127 In a nested case‐control study in the UK, researchers found that influenza‐like illness carried an 18‐fold increase risk for GBS in the 2 months following infectious symptoms {GBS = Guillain‐Barre syndrome}

...

A retrospective analysis of the onset of narcolepsy in 629 patients in China demonstrated a threefold increase in the incidence of narcolepsy after the 2009 H1N1 influenza pandemic

...

While myalgias are a common complaint among individuals with many viral infections, the development of rhabdomyolysis represents a less common but more serious complication. In cases of virus‐associated rhabdomyolysis, influenza is identified as the most common etiology

...

Influenza‐associated ocular disease can result from direct conjunctival invasion by influenza virus and presents most commonly as a conjunctivitis although retinopathy, uveal effusion syndrome, and optic neuritis have also been reported.

...

During an outbreak of avian A(H7N7) influenza in the Netherlands, 91% (75/82) of patients presented with conjunctivitis alone and 6% (5/82) had both conjunctivitis and influenza‐like illness

...

Conjunctivitis has also been reported in association with the A(H1N1)pdm09 virus.174 In a study of 89 patients with H1N1 infection, 58 (65%) presented with conjunctivitis, 7 patients (8%) presented with uveal effusion syndrome—a unilateral red painful eye associated with severe visual loss—and another 3 (3%) presented with optic neuritis

...

More severe ocular manifestations have been reported in association with influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 infection—two cases of acute retinitis and a case of bleeding follicular conjunctivitis
...Observational studies suggest the incidence of influenza‐associated AKI {acute kidney injury} ranges from 18% to 66% in patients cared for in an ICU setting

...

Liver injury due to influenza infection, possibly secondary to systemic inflammation mediated by viral infection, appears to be present in a percentage of cases suggesting that liver enzymes should be monitored closely.

...

Using data on national hospitalizations aggregated during time periods with increased diagnoses of influenza‐like illness in 1976 and 1978, patients were significantly more likely to die of DKA {diabetic ketoacidosis} than compared to periods when influenza‐like illness rates were at baseline (25.7% vs 14.6%, P < .01)

...

Influenza infection is associated with a variety of hematologic complications including thromboembolic disease, thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura (TTP), hemolytic‐uremic syndrome (HUS), and hemophagocytic syndrome (HPS).

Hopefully you will agree that the regular flu has a surprisingly high rate of serious complications. In the past, it has never occurred to anyone to murder the country in an attempt to do something about these complications.

Given the information above, you will agree that there is no reason to think that this year's flu has complications that are more prevalent or more dangerous than the complications we have been seeing for the regular flu.

 

[david c]

Bill Bauer's views on Covid are understandably deeply insulting to those who have suffered the bad effects of Covid themselves or seen its impact on friends or relatives. But the thing to realise is that Bill has absolutely no personal experience or understanding of Covid himself and has simply relied on the disinformation peddled by various far-right websites rather than from any authoritative medical sources. The best thing to do therefore is simply ignore his ignorance paraded as information.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I have listened to people on Talk Radio that have been affected by "long term Covid" Although older people with underlying health conditions are particularly vulnerable to this disease, that may require hospitalization and unfortunately might die. Many that are younger, healthy and succumb to Covid 19 are having a lot of difficulty recovering from it.

A few days ago I was listening to a woman 28 years of age. Regularly ran 3 to 5 miles a day. After contracting Covid six months ago she can hardly walk 30ft without stopping to breath. She has lost her sense of taste, smell and the doctors have tried everything to help her. Another woman early 40s had three thriving businesses and employed people. She can no longer work, lost sense of taste, smell. Bleeds from her ears and gums. She lives on her own and now, can't even hold a cup of tea in her hand because it shakes continuously and everything spills on the floor. She was in tears and I found it heartbreaking to listen to.

LBC last night: Leading Britain's Conversation, is a revered Talk Radio station and accessible online. A man phoned up early 50s and fit. Had no prior health conditions before contracting Covid 4 months ago. Now, he can hardly wash himself, can't return to work, lost taste and smell. He said he used to be a very independent person and now has to rely on his wife to help, with simple daily tasks. He said his personality has changed and has become very emotional which he wasn't before.

Covid 19 is serious and although a younger person may get it and recover, often their body is not quite the same.

Michael

 

[DaveN]

Actually - it does. The flu can have surprisingly serious complications.

Please check out my earlier post - the information is underneath "Let's look at some numbers!":

Bill this is not the flu and you are wrong. It is easier to catch than the flu and it is impacting younger people with complications that the flu does not.

If you want to be insensitive and a sanctimonious piece of shit feel free free.

Fuck you.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Very sorry to hear about your brother @DaveN, hope he improves with time...

 

[DaveN]

Thank you Michael! I am trying to stay positive and not worry as much. Hoping for more answers after he's admitted but it's been extremely overwhelming with these random symptoms popping up out of nowhere and seemingly getting worse.

 

[Sevv]

Thank you Michael! I am trying to stay positive and not worry as much. Hoping for more answers after he's admitted but it's been extremely overwhelming with these random symptoms popping up out of nowhere and seemingly getting worse.

At this point it's really difficult, we don't know what causes the symptoms in long COVID-19. I mean if an organ is damaged, I might imagine that stem cell therapy could help eventually. I hope that works for nerve damage as well.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Thank you Michael! I am trying to stay positive and not worry as much. Hoping for more answers after he's admitted but it's been extremely overwhelming with these random symptoms popping up out of nowhere and seemingly getting worse.

My thoughts are with you Dave, try to keep strong though it's difficult. COVID-19 is not like the flu, it can be ruthless and shows no mercy to anyone that's unfortunate to get it. My post above, was a snippet about some of the stories I've heard regarding this terrible disease.

Take care
Michael

 

[DaveN]

@Sevv honestly part of what scares me is that we know so little about it! But I trust in the fact that we have people actively working around the clock to help not only stop the spread but see what the hell they can do about the long-termers. It is and has been difficult but I am hopeful! I keep telling myself it has to get better!

@Michael Leigh thanks again. I have heard and read some serious horror stories about this. Thank you for the positive thoughts!

 

[frischky]

I've had the test twice, Frischky. I also went to a drive-through location, but we had to self administer the test. A swab deep down at the back of the throat, and another deep into the nasal cavity. I had no tinnitus concerns whatsoever, and it didn't have any effect on it for me.

Thanks for the feedback. I just had one done at the pharmacy... they use a shallow nasal swab (supposedly 96% as effective as the deep swab). Was no more than twirling a Q-Tip in my nostrils for a few seconds each.

Self-administration of that long swab.... ouch!

 

[ParaMotor]

I tested positive 2 weeks ago, and now just starting to see light at end of tunnel. This is not a regular flu, it's a brutal virus. Most who dismiss it as a wee flu haven't had it or lost someone to it, I suspect they would change their views.

At the peak loudest tinnitus I've ever had, surprisingly I couldn't have cared less. It settled down. Xx

 

[linearb]

Unfortunately, Linearb, I think this kind of stupidity is universal and is a direct result of social media. I think it would most certainly happen over here if it's happening there.

It seems everywhere I look right now, I see people who believe the whole thing is fake.

Denying it as you lay dying of it is a whole new level of brokebrained though.

"Aerobic respiration is bullshit, it is not required for life!" I cry, as I die of asphyxiation inside a sealed container.

 

[coffee_girl]

I had COVID-19 in March. It is really dangerous, would not recommend. A lot harder than the flu. I am extremely strong but it rocked me.

 

[Bill Bauer]

It is easier to catch than the flu

Yes, it is more contagious than the flu in the average year.

Now that I think of it when I, and the others, say "the flu" we are not talking about the seasonal flu/the average flu outbreak, we are talking about a "bad flu" year, say in the top 20% of the most deadliest flu years of the past 120 years.
[And we are not counting The deadliest flu outbreak of them all, the one in 1918. People nowadays act As If this year's flu was Like the flu of 1918, even though it isn't even close.]
During those bad flu years (e.g, 1958, 1969, etc.), most people weren't even aware of the fact that that year flu was deadlier than usual. It was "just a flu and not The Plague" back then and this continues to be true this year.

it is impacting younger people with complications that the flu does not.

First we were told that it was Killing young people at a higher rate than the flu. Now we know that "15-44 mortality is 0.03%"

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02483-2

May I ask you to post a link to the study that has concluded "it is impacting younger people with complications that the flu does not."

In other words, we are told that out of millions of people who got a flu this year, some have had complications, and some of them are young. We also know that the flu has serious complications, and even young people can get flu complications. What study has looked into the actual complication rate for the young people of this year's flu?

If you want to be insensitive and a sanctimonious piece of shit feel free free.

Fuck you.

When a member of a cult is shown the evidence that the main idea behind their cult is nonsense, it is my understanding that their natural reaction is uncontrollable anger. Hopefully you will come to your senses and do what a rational person would do when they see empirical evidence contradicting their religious beliefs.

Bill has no idea, so please don't take what he is saying to heart. The fact he is still calling this the flu speaks volumes to me.

WOW. I posted all of that information that you can't argue with (as evidenced by the fact that you haven't done it), and this is your response? Is this the result of brainwashing, low IQ/poor education (that would allow one to conclude that the person who provides arguments that you can't argue with "has no clue"), or "an agenda"?

I would love to understand what is happening here.

 

[DaveN]

All I did was ask you to not downplay this. You decided not to. You can hope I "come to my senses" all you want.

What you can do is -

1- get off your high horse. most of the medical and science community is in agreement that it is much more dangerous and easier to spread than the flu. The 'many' you claim is a small outlier... remember the Haitian doctor Trump was promoting? The one who was talking about demon sperm etc? She thinks it's no more dangerous than the flu so you are in good company there.

2 - it is clear you care more about feeling right than a compassionate human being. I asked please don't call it the flu. What is so offensive about that? I didn't ask you to change your beliefs, I asked you on a message board not to downplay something that is upsetting. Screw me, right?

3 - this is my last comment to you so I'll make it count. Fuck you you piece of trash. You don't deserve happiness if you are just going to sit around and be a miserable dick to people who are in pain because it makes you feel superior and smart. Fuck you.

There was a time where I thought I was happier after finding this board because reading all the stories and struggles and participating made me feel a lot better and less alone. But too many people here absolutely THRIVE on being negative and nasty to people. They seemingly enjoy people's suffering. I'm good.

 

[Bill Bauer]

The only trustworthy indicator of how bad a "pandemic" (scary!) is, is the actual total death count from all causes.

Check out these weekly death counts:
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2020017-eng.htm

At the peak of this year's flu back in April (week 17), the weekly mortality was 6,640, which 10 higher than the weekly mortality during week 2 in 2018 which is reported to be 6,630.

Reminder: Back in 2018 nobody cared about the flu.

 

[Bill Bauer]

it is much more dangerous and easier to spread than the flu.

It IS more contagious than usual. For a given number of deaths, if the disease is MORE contagious, it means that it is less deadly.

The 'many' you claim is a small outlier...

The reason for that is that people who dare to disagree with the narrative face serious consequences. This implies that what is happening here (when doctors and researchers choose to not publicly disagree, and when researchers know that certain findings will be easy to publish in a good journal and certain findings will cause problems for their career) has nothing to do with Science.

it is clear you care more about feeling right than a compassionate human being.

The policy based on facts will result in minimizing human misery. Enough said. If this isn't clear to you, I should stop "throwing pearls before swine". If you see it now, I expect an apology.

I didn't ask you to change your beliefs, I asked you on a message board not to downplay something that is upsetting.

It is upsetting to me (and many others) when hysterical idiots (and the smart people with an agenda who are manipulating them) are blowing up/murdering my society. Now what?

Fuck you you piece of trash. You don't deserve happiness if you are just going to sit around and be a miserable dick to people who are in pain because it makes you feel superior and smart. Fuck you.

LOL

This feels like an exorcism in a bad horror movie - they force the victim of a possession to look at a cross and that causes the victim to get agitated.

See, if you were to actually Address why you think my arguments are wrong, then you wouldn't look like a religious person defending their religion, while being utterly unable to cite any evidence for it.

be a miserable dick to people who are in pain

I am not sure what you are talking about. All I see are people who are worried about a Plague-like event happening, while they also have to deal with tinnitus. Me posting data proving that there is nothing to actually be concerned about ought to make them feel better, right?

And you must feel dumb for accusing Me who has literally made hundreds if not thousands of posts here providing sufferers with the info that increases the chance of them getting better and also giving them hope that eventually their tinnitus will fade.

I will assume that your tinnitus has caused some temporary insanity for you. You are forgiven.

 

[Ed209]

Denying it as you lay dying of it is a whole new level of brokebrained though.

"Aerobic respiration is bullshit, it is not required for life!" I cry, as I die of asphyxiation inside a sealed container.

It is indeed, but it doesn't surprise me at all.

You'd think people would want to listen to what the experts have to say, especially when one is not qualified to assert meaningful opinions in this field. But, I guess not! Apparently, many would rather listen to their mate Dave, the local window cleaner, who knows everything there is to know about COVID-19 and how it spreads. I mean who cares what the epidemiologists and virologists have to say when there are so many on social media who understand it better? I think it's difficult to beat the knowledge of those who have studied YouTube relentlessly and can provide a google link or two.

I would hope that this is why people hire me to teach them about music rather than a computer programmer, for example.

 

[Ed209]

More people died of Covid in the year to August than have died annually from flu and pneumonia combined in any year since 2000.

Despite the fact that the virus is only thought to have been in general circulation since March, Covid has so far caused the deaths of 3.4 times as many people in 2020 as flu and pneumonia, according to data released for England and Wales by the Office of National Statistics.

Although flu and pneumonia deaths have been relatively low this year, the report found that more people had died of Covid in the first eight months of this year than have ever died of flu or pneumonia in the same period since comparable records began in 1959.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-times-higher-than-flu-and-pneumonia-ons-data

 

[just1morething]

And you must feel dumb for accusing Me who has literally made hundreds if not thousands of posts here providing sufferers with the info that increases the chance of them getting better and also giving them hope that eventually their tinnitus will fade.

I will assume that your tinnitus has caused some temporary insanity for you. You are forgiven.

None of your posts have helped me and I've had tinnitus for years. You must have a form of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. You're welcome.

COVID-19 seems to spread more easily than flu and causes more serious illnesses in some people. It can also take longer before people show symptoms and people can be contagious for longer. Another important difference is there is a vaccine to protect against flu. There is currently no vaccine to prevent COVID-19.Oct 6, 2020