Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19) and Tinnitus

[david c]

Regarding overall education level, put is this way, I don't have a PhD. But I don't think that should exclude me from asking questions along the lines of the Socratic principle, do you?

Asking questions is perfectly fine - it's what most human beings do. It's the process by which we search for information and evaluate the information we find that is crucial. Certainly, a graduate or post-graduate level of education at a reputable university is a big advantage in this regard.

You've stated lots of things you say you "believe" in, some uncontroversial, others highly controversial, but have not offered much in the way of reasoning or evidence to back your ideas up and have mentioned one scientist, who doesn't hold any current academic or pharmaceutical position. On that basis I don't think you'll be convincing many people that the views you hold are correct.

 

[one-light]

So much to read on here, i skimmed over most of it, but I saw Macclesfield mentioned. How is it doing spare bed wise during this crisis?

I only ask as it's my local hospital - I did 4 years research on power of the mind and immune systems before all this came about - I delivered 500 Stay Strong posters to shops last year for display in Macclesfield and surrounding towns, to help people to stay positive to strengthen immune systems...

 

[UKBloke]

a graduate or post-graduate level of education at a reputable university is a big advantage in this regard.

Having at least a graduate level of education is a big advantage when asking questions? Are you serious? I can't believe I just read that. What a patronising comment. Go and take a look at Reiner Fuellmich's interview he recently gave where he spoke about the taxi driver that he had a conversation with on his way to his destination, and whom began to ask him questions. Take note of Fuellmich's remarks.

mentioned one scientist, who doesn't hold any current academic or pharmaceutical position. On that basis I don't think you'll be convincing many people that the views you hold are correct.

That scientist is Dr. Mike Yeadon. In the past I've also mentioned Dr. Clare Craig, Dr. Malcolm Kendrick and Kevin McKernan. There are also people like Dr. Jonathan Engler and Joel Smalley, who has done a lot of (unpaid obviously) work to present another side to the available statistics.

When I've already told you that I am not trying to convince anybody of my views, why do you repeat that I'm trying to convince people of my views? I've been clear that these are the views of people like those above. When those expert people are not expert enough for their view to be to legitimate to others that's where the battle line is drawn. If there's one contextualised Orwell quote in this thread that I can agree on then it would be the one recently cited.

 

[UKBloke]

So much to read on here, i skimmed over most of it, but I saw Macclesfield mentioned. How is it doing spare bed wise during this crisis?

I only ask as it's my local hospital - I did 4 years research on power of the mind and immune systems before all this came about - I delivered 500 Stay Strong posters to shops last year for display in Macclesfield and surrounding towns, to help people to stay positive to strengthen immune systems...

It was me who mentioned Macclesfield. Dr. Malcolm Kendrick is a GP up there and gave quite an interesting interview on a podcast recently about his perspective of the Coronavirus. If I remember rightly the podcast is by a bloke called Steve Katasi if you want to look it up.

Not sure what the Macclesfield hospital bed situation is. Haven't heard any headlines. Props for going out and postering to help people stay strong and strengthen their immune system.

 

[Lane]

The following article illustrates--to me--that COVID-19 will continue to be very difficult to prevent or treat using conventional methods. I continue to believe the best route to go is for safer, inexpensive, and effective natural preventative measures and treatments. Viruses of all kinds flourish in poor health, or nutritionally deficient ecosystems. Improve the ecosystems, and natural immunity is likely to occur.

South African variant dominates as deaths soar - The ...

 

[david c]

Having at least a graduate level of education is a big advantage when asking questions? Are you serious? I can't believe I just read that. What a patronising comment.

Reading comprehension is fairly basic here. Maybe you could reread what I actually wrote:

It's the process by which we search for information and evaluate the information we find that is crucial. Certainly, a graduate or post-graduate level of education at a reputable university is a big advantage in this regard.

And here, in terms of searching for specialist information, reading and evaluating academic information, then yes I would absolutely say that a graduate level of education is a big advantage, as it gives you three years of training for doing exactly this. A Post-graduate degree of course gives a further level of training.

There's nothing remotely controversial about saying this. It's really about the same as saying that someone who has spent their time and money training to be a plumber or electrician and obtaining a qualification for that is more qualified as a plumber or electrician than somebody who has had no training in this area.

That scientist is Dr. Mike Yeadon. In the past I've also mentioned Dr. Clare Craig, Dr. Malcolm Kendrick and Kevin McKernan. There are also people like Dr. Jonathan Engler and Joel Smalley,
When those expert people are not expert enough for their view to be to legitimate to others that's where the battle line is drawn.

None of the small number of people you have mentioned have remotely the same level of reputation or standing as the many, many public health experts on the other side of the argument. Here, we have something close to the Climate Change debate and the whole issue of "balance". Around 98% of the academic specialists in this area would agree that climate change was happening and that manmade factors were a clear cause of this. Maybe around 2% disagreed - most with financial links to the fossil fuels industries.

 

[Ed209]

The following article illustrates--to me--that COVID-19 will continue to be very difficult to prevent or treat using conventional methods. I continue to believe the best route to go is for safer, inexpensive, and effective natural preventative measures and treatments. Viruses of all kinds flourish in poor health, or nutritionally deficient ecosystems. Improve the ecosystems, and natural immunity is likely to occur.

South African variant dominates as deaths soar - The ...

It's a bit of a lottery, though, Lane. You cannot predict how it will affect someone, and if you're one of the unlucky ones, then all you can do is hope for the best. Your immunity is most certainly improved with a better diet, that is unquestionable, however, it does not safeguard you against ARDS, Pneumonia, or Sepsis, for example.

When I got Sepsis in 2017, my diet was really good, and I was also taking supplements as I was still training. It didn't help me fight Sepsis, though. IV antibiotics did. They literally saved my life.

 

[Stu1983]

Hi @Ed209, it was very kind of you to offer @PeteJ that book for free. I hope he takes you up on your offer. It makes me happy to seeing people supporting one another.

Love and respect,
Stu

 

[Ed209]

Hi @Ed209, it was very kind of you to offer @PeteJ that book for free. I hope he takes you up on your offer. It makes me happy to seeing people supporting one another.

Love and respect,
Stu

Thanks Stu, but that was @linearb, not me.

 

[Stu1983]

Thanks Stu, but that was @linearb, not me.

Ooops @Ed209, my bad bro. @linearb, that was awesome for you to offer @PeteJ a free book. It makes me happy to seeing people supporting one another.

Love and respect,
Stu

 

[UKBloke]

Reading comprehension is fairly basic here. Maybe you could reread what I actually wrote:

I think I read right the first time; the comment's implication being on a par with that of the majority aspect of the, 98% of academic experts agreeing on the manmade factors to climate change, comment. And of course these comments come after the original slur about me allegedly angrily stating negative impacts on my business, which is something you haven't acknowledged I didn't say.

I'm getting really tired of the attitudes being shown in this thread. For me, this has been going on for nearly five weeks. People post anecdotes, they're told to post citations. They post citations, they're told they're not qualified to understand them. Every post is poured over and scrutinised like a peer-review process. But the same rules are not applying to all posters. Where's the consistency?

Back when Galileo was challenging the existing beliefs about the nature of the earth to the sun do you think you would have taken his view and been in the 1% or do you think you would have been in the 99% camp? You're from the UK right? If you have something specific about the corona situation from a UK perspective I'd be happy to talk to you about it. Despite my tone I get the impression you're quite a reasonable person. If you do want to chat further, my only caveat is to do it via PM. I don't wish to have any further debate about this subject here.

As a parting comment it seems apt to post something from Bob Moran, one of my favourite political cartoonists who said the following on Twitter today:

 

[david c]

I think I read right the first time

No you didn't. So just to repeat what I actually said - a graduate or postgraduate level of education is a big advantage when searching for academic information and when evaluating academic information. And I explained exactly why I said it - because an academic degree is three years of training in doing exactly that.

Back when Galileo was challenging the existing beliefs about the nature of the earth to the sun do you think you would have taken his view and been in the 1% or do you think you would have been in the 99% camp? You're from the UK right?

I'm afraid the point at which you start comparing your bunch of less than impressive COVID-deniers with Galileo really is the point at which your argument tips into self-parody.

You're from the UK right? If you have something specific about the corona situation from a UK perspective I'd be happy to talk to you about it. Despite my tone I get the impression you're quite a reasonable person.

I'm a perfectly reasonable person and in the spirit of reasonableness I'll acknowledge that in a much earlier comment, which I hadn't seen, you said that your own personal business hadn't been affected by COVID-19. However, you clearly resent the economic and social impacts of lockdown and those particular beliefs have clearly played into your confirmation bias when doing your "research" of COVID-19 online.

 

[dan]

A man in the UK snook into a COVID-19 ward, without a mask, and tried to remove a seriously ill elderly relative. The video below is pretty disturbing and clearly shows why fake news is so dangerous. It's no longer just a case of conspiracy theorists chanting outside of hospitals; some are now going inside to remove patients, and this isn't an isolated incident.

These people are misinformed and delusional. They do not understand any of the science, but that doesn't stop them from harassing nurses and doctors across the country. They talk as if their knowledge and understanding of the situation is far superior to those who deal with it every day because they've looked on Google. This shit needs to stop! Seriously, what is the world coming to?

Watch all of this:

It honestly infuriates me how dumb people can be.

There have also been reports that someone tried to bomb a vaccine plant in Wales.

I showed that video to two friends, and this was their response:

View attachment 43053

This is the unfortunate reality of the situation. Because of fake news, some people still don't believe it's real even though two of their colleagues are in a coma. The one doing the rapid tests, above, was also a non-believer until his boss died and then his workmates ended up in comas. It reminds me of that George Orwell quote that @Jack V posted:

"Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually on a battlefield."

Holy crap, this shit is for real then? I really hoped it was all fake...

 

[UKBloke]

No you didn't. So just to repeat what I actually said - a graduate or postgraduate level of education is a big advantage when searching for academic information and when evaluating academic information. And I explained exactly why I said it - because an academic degree is three years of training in doing exactly that.

I'm afraid the point at which you start comparing your bunch of less than impressive COVID-deniers with Galileo really is the point at which your argument tips into self-parody.

I'm a perfectly reasonable person and in the spirit of reasonableness I'll acknowledge that in a much earlier comment, which I hadn't seen, you said that your own personal business hadn't been affected by COVID-19. However, you clearly resent the economic and social impacts of lockdown and those particular beliefs have clearly played into your confirmation bias when doing your "research" of COVID-19 online.

Mike Yeadon a COVID-19 denier? What a strange little man you are. Just go away, please.

 

[Ed209]

Holy crap, this shit is for real then? I really hoped it was all fake...

Some nice sarcasm there, Dan.

I guess I'm tired of seeing ridiculous comments online that lead to the kind of actions you see in the video I posted. The nonsense I've seen posted on Facebook and elsewhere defies belief, but it's snowballing out of control, and I'm seeing more and more repeating fake news as if it's fact.

The lockdown debate is understandable, though, and I'm all for it. There's a lot of room for a healthy discussion to take place as we have to consider the impact this is having on the economy and peoples lives in general. It's a complex matter, and this can't happen with those who still think the virus is a hoax. Trying to talk to anyone who still believes this is part of a bigger plan to implant microchips in people and bring in the NWO is a waste of time. They are unreachable in the same way that other conspiracy theorists are, as facts no longer matter.

 

[david c]

Mike Yeadon a COVID-19 denier?

All the people you quote have hugely downplayed the significance and impact of COVID-19 - that makes them COVID-19 deniers in much the same way as Climate-Change deniers might say "OK maybe climate change is happening a bit but it's very limited and it's not manmade.

What a strange little man you are. Just go away, please.

Over 100,000 UK citizens have now died of COVID-19, yet people such as you insist on saying it's all exaggerated and a large number haven't died from COVID-19, despite all the evidence to the contrary. That makes you the "strange little man" in my book. Maybe you should have a few conversations with NHS workers on the frontline having to deal with all this - as I have had - they'd have something to say to you and it would be a lot stronger than "Just go away, please."

 

[UKBloke]

people such as you insist on saying it's all exaggerated and a large number haven't died from COVID-19

Will you stop slandering me. I have never said it's all exaggerated. I have said that the all-cause mortality figures in Europe are telling a side to the story that doesn't tally with the way the BBC are reporting it.

One of the questions people have asked is, Where has the flu gone? I've refrained from even trying to get into that question because I understand that this is where things like conspiracy theories are born. However, the more this situation has developed I've seen explanations that suggest the emergence of a dominant new coronavirus such as SARS-CoV-2 may actually be the reason why the flu simply fell off the map in 2020. It would also help explain why Rhinovirus's have remained out there doing the rounds.

If you'd gone back further you'd see I've also stated that we have neighbours who are frontline paramedics for the London Ambulance Service. We were on our doorsteps clapping for them last year. They have been on the bleeding edge of COVID-19 so yes, we too get an element of this from the horse's mouth.

 

[AfroSnowman]

Where has the flu gone

With the social distancing, masks, obsessive hand washing, office and school closures it would be shocking if the levels of flu hadn't collapsed.

 

[david c]

Will you stop slandering me.

That did make me laugh. I'm not remotely slandering you (it would be libel not slander incidentally as slander implies spoken defamation). Reading back through all your long posts (sigh!) is to read a whole tissue of conspiracy theories - the COVID-19 tests are being deliberately misused, the aim is to foist a vaccine on a frightened population etc, etc. None of it is remotely original - it's all the stuff of the conspiracy theories circulating on the internet.

It's pretty clear that the root of much of this is your deep suspicion of vaccines because of your belief that the MMR vaccine damaged a family member. Of course we know just how damaging all the internet conspiracy theories about the MMR vaccine (following the discredited Andrew Wakefield Lancet article) have been, with serious outbreaks of measles as a result.

I'm glad that you have spoken to a couple of paramedics by the way. It might be interesting to hear what they make of all your conspiracy theories, though you have probably wisely concluded that they are rather too busy to have time to listen to them.

 

[UKBloke]

That did make me laugh.

I'm glad you found it entertaining.

COVID-19 tests are being deliberately misused.

This is not what I said. What I actually said is that it concerns me COVID-19 tests have not been standardised and that viral loading wasn't routinely reported.

the aim is to foist a vaccine on a frightened population.

I've made it quite clear that I'm pro-choice where vaccination is concerned. I've also made it clear that I don't think it's fair to routinely label people with concerns about vaccines as anti-vaxxers, particularly if doing so involves mocking them with memes.

It might be interesting to hear what they make of all your conspiracy theories, though you have probably wisely concluded that they are rather too busy to have time to listen to them.

They were the ones who actually voiced a concern to me about having the vaccine. That was something I mentioned here as well.

Anything else, or are you just here to bitch?

 

[david c]

This is not what I said.

You do seem to be misremembering what you actually said so let me remind you.

I believe that the test known as PCR, which is critical in a COVID-19 diagnosis has and is being misused

From the context you make it pretty clear that you think this misuse is deliberate.

I've made it quite clear that I'm pro-choice where vaccination is concerned. I've also made it clear that I don't think it's fair to routinely label people with concerns about vaccines as anti-vaxxers.

I'm glad you are pro-choice but your past comments make clear that far from just having concerns about vaccines you very much buy into the whole conspiracy theories about COVID-19 being exploited to foist vaccines on people:

In my opinion this is a scandal. At one end of the narrative we see people dropping dead like flies on the streets of Wuhan, and at the other end nine months later we are told to inject a vaccine.

Anything else, or are you just here to bitch?

I had the chance to speak to a nurse today who regularly works on the frontline in intensive care wards and out of interest showed her some of the things you had written- e.g. moaning about the awful imposition of lockdowns and your various conspiracy theories - to see what she thought of them. Unlike me, she's a very direct person. She said she thought you were "scum".

 

[linearb]

The following article illustrates--to me--that COVID-19 will continue to be very difficult to prevent or treat using conventional methods. I continue to believe the best route to go is for safer, inexpensive, and effective natural preventative measures and treatments. Viruses of all kinds flourish in poor health, or nutritionally deficient ecosystems. Improve the ecosystems, and natural immunity is likely to occur.

South African variant dominates as deaths soar - The ...

The existing vaccines are less effective against this strain but still majority effective at preventing disease and substantially better than that at preventing serious disease, which is vastly more than you can say for any supplement/dietary protocol/etc that's been investigated.

Also, it's not going to be especially hard to map new spike proteins and make tweaked vaccines; the worrying thing is more that the US is allowing itself to be a petri dish for mutations right now.

 

[UKBloke]

Unlike me, she's a very direct person. She said she thought you were "scum".

No, David, I think you delight in nothing more than being direct. It's just that when it comes to labelling me as "scum" you abrogate responsibility for that to a nurse. You've neither the balls nor the integrity to own your own comments. Silly little man.

 

[one-light]

Has anybody on here noticed or remarked that the normal colds and flu that are usually about - you know the 'catch it, bin it, kill it mob' that usually terrorise us each winter - remember that advert from previous years?

I can remember one flu killing 6 elderly members of our church in 'one week' - so where are they, bad guy virus must have gobbled them - won't even mention its name, and if you say it's mask wearing, well it hasn't stopped the thing much has it... so where are the other viruses that sweep the UK?

If this happens again in 10 years don't give it a fearsome name, putting fear into people's minds, lowering immune systems that word 'fear' - stay strong as I've had on the 500 posters...

 

[david c]

No, David, I think you delight in nothing more than being direct. It's just that when it comes to labelling me as "scum" you abrogate responsibility for that to a nurse. You've neither the balls nor the integrity to own your own comments. Silly little man.

It's what that nurse said - having had quite a lot of contact with NHS workers recently, most of them incredibly stressed and overworked from the coronavirus pandemic, I can assure you they have absolute zero tolerance for individuals such as yourself moaning about lockdown restrictions (much less restrictive in the UK than in other nations) and creating conspiracy theories based on zero actual evidence.

Incidentally, quite contrary to your apparent experience (based on the people you claim to know) all the NHS workers I know absolutely couldn't wait to get the vaccine - and who can blame them when they are risking their own lives getting coronavirus every day.

But of course, if you don't believe me you can test things out for yourself. Get in contact with some healthcare workers and read out what you've put on this thread to them and ask for their reactions - I think you might be surprised at the strength of their reactions. Better yet, film it and post it on here (if they consent of course) so we can all have a good laugh.

 

[UKBloke]

It's what that nurse said - having had quite a lot of contact with NHS workers recently, most of them incredibly stressed and overworked from the coronavirus pandemic

The frontline workers in the NHS have my full sympathy. If you can find evidence that I've said anything to the contrary please post it. I stand by every word that I have written in this thread. If the government had built capacity into the NHS in preparation for the winter resurgence the staff that you "claim to" know wouldn't be as tired and stressed as they are now.

Incidentally, quite contrary to your apparent experience (based on the people you claim to know) all the NHS workers I know absolutely couldn't wait to get the vaccine - and who can blame them when they are risking their own lives getting coronavirus every day.

Though I don't like to use the word "vaccinated" here because I don't think it's appropriate, my own mother got the Pfizer jab yesterday. Argument for argument's sake gets us nowhere. If you've got actual verifiable data, offer it up.

As far away as last August, there were reports that for every 3 COVID-19 deaths, lockdown caused 2. We know that circa 250,000 small business are going to go to the wall. We know ambulance call out in London to attend suicide is up 30%. We know that child abuse (blunt head trauma for example) has increased during lockdown. We know that there will be a spike in cancer death within the next 2-3 years due to missed routine screenings (remember, it was only supposed to be 3 weeks to flatten the curve).

Referring to my concerns about the above as, moaning, is entirely your own choice of words. We are all individually responsible for how we present ourselves to this online community. You own your words, I own mine.

 

[UKBloke]

With the social distancing, masks, obsessive hand washing, office and school closures it would be shocking if the levels of flu hadn't collapsed.

I've seen this argument quite a bit on the 'net. Sweden can now be a control model for it. Their influenza report for 2020 is available and can be found here.

In 2020 when SARS-CoV-2 emerged in Sweden influenza there didn't just fall, it flatlined. How did this happen? Sweden did not impose social distancing measures, there were no mandatory masks, and no lockdowns.

 

[Piet]

Hey guys, I have a question.

I had COVID-19 and I'm still struggling with long-term symptoms (not feeling well, pressure on the chest, etc) for like 2 months now.

Now I have noise-induced hearing loss (I'm only 20, rip me).

My tinnitus started 2.5 years ago and I was pretty much habituated until recently. I'm noticing it's much louder with a high hiss sound. I'm also noticing a very quiet static noise in my left ear.

I'm currently on Lion's Mane mushroom hoping for some improvements (from what I've seen, this can't really make it worse).

I did some self-tests on my high frequency and was able to hear 15 kHz with my left ear a couple of months ago and 13.5 kHz in my right ear where my tinnitus pretty much is. I did a test last week and now it's like 14 kHz in my left ear and 12.5 kHz in my right ear.

I haven't been exposed to any loud sounds so this wouldn't be the cause.

Is this maybe caused by COVID-19 and the stress that has come with it and will I ever recover? I'm hoping this is just a prolonged spike and it will fade when my symptoms disappear. Does anybody here notice some similarities that have caught COVID-19 as well?

 

[david c]

The frontline workers in the NHS have my full sympathy.

But if you speak to NHS workers as I have done, you'll realise that they don't particularly want or need your sympathy. What they do want and need is for the general public to follow the lockdown rules, wear face-masks, follow social distancing. What they don't want is for members of the general public to spread disinformation about COVID-19 deaths, disinformation about vaccine conspiracies, go into hospitals and try to find empty areas and film then. Etc Etc.

As far away as last August, there were reports that for every 3 COVID-19 deaths, lockdown caused 2.

Yet again we have disinformation being spread without evidence. The cause of the pressure on cancer and other health-treatments isn't lockdown. The cause of the pressure is the fact that our health service, its personnel, its beds and its ICU units are overwhelmed by caring for COVID-19 patients. Lockdown is intended to (and to a significant degree actually does) reduce COVID-19 transmission rates, which in turn reduces COVID-19 deaths, which in turn enables the NHS to focus on treating other health conditions. As someone who is on a waiting list for shoulder surgery, nobody could be keener to see the health service focus on this than myself.

Of course, one of the reasons that the NHS has been so overwhelmed by COVID-19 is that it has been significantly underfunded for a long period. And of course if we had a functioning test and trace system that also would help significantly.

Argument for argument's sake gets us nowhere. If you've got actual verifiable data, offer it up.

I couldn't agree more and note that you have made a large number of claims throughout which you have failed to back up with verifiable data.

Though I don't like to use the word "vaccinated" here because I don't think it's appropriate, my own mother got the Pfizer jab yesterday.

Whether you think it appropriate to use the word or not, your mother got a COVID-19 vaccination yesterday and wisely seems to have ignored your own views on COVID-19 vaccines. Indeed vaccines are going to be our only way out of the current bad situation and at least in this respect there are signs for hope.

 

[UKBloke]

Had a chat with the missus this evening. Gonna log off here for good. See ya folks.