Hi
@Kriszti,
In response to your post in the
Suicidal thread.
@Damocles, maybe this one would be more appropriate? And not the Suicidal one:
Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19) and Tinnitus
Are you referring to this trial?
A Study to Evaluate Efficacy, Safety, and Immunogenicity of mRNA-1273 Vaccine in Adults Aged 18 Years and Older to Prevent COVID-19
I agree that how the public will react to the vaccines will have meaningful information going forward, but placebo groups and experimental groups probably are restricted to participants who are actually enrolled in trials. In that sense that's easier to track how the vaccines work, because it gives researchers opportunity to compare groups with comparable features and analyze their progression. That must be much more troublesome with the general public.
Well, ok. It is doable to trace everyone who got the vaccines, but mainly for hospitalization and death, I doubt that every sore arm, fever, or headache would be followed through batch numbers and so on. Many people don't even report mildish side effects. And Pete, maybe he was joking, said that lack of reactions of Dan's mom means that she got lucky and probably had the placebo.
I'll look into the things you said about Pharma companies, thanks.
We live in strange times, you are right, but I guess in emergency use, benefits of the vaccines still probably outweigh the risk of death caused by COVID-19. Maybe in a couple of years we will have more definitive answers.
So another reason to not off ourselves because of tinnitus to have the chance to "know the truth" about these lovely times in hindsight. (Sorry for being a bit morbid, having a shitty day.)
I apologise if this is a long read. Maybe treat it like a short piece of non-fiction, and don't read it all at once (?)
Yes, and no.
First, look at the start date:
July 27 2020. Now, the first Moderna vaccine was issued in the UK on
April 4 2021 more than one year before this trial was supposed to end. So really, your question shouldn't be: was I referring to that trial? but: was I referring to that
now defunct trial?
It would be incredibly naive to think Moderna or Pfizer etc. care any longer about these clinical trials (a clinical trial's main purpose after all, is simply to gain official approval for your product and then get it to market). As of right now, Moderna and Pfizer (exclusively) are making a fortune under the EUA licenses they've been granted globally (with full immunity from legal liability if they cause severe injury or death), and there is no way, after so many millions of people have been given these vaccines, that government officials are going to turn around and suddenly declare them unsafe (unless they fancy being hung in public). So they
will all receive full approval (eventually), hence, these trials' only significance now, is proving that the vaccines were brought to market far too quickly and that they are all still, very much,
experimental.
Not to mention, that even if they did care about the results of the trial (which they don't) they now have a far bigger range of subjects from which to draw data.
So, let's say you've invented a product
@Kriszti (for arguments sake, it's a new type of sausage) and you want people to
try your sausage, so you'll know if it's going to be popular and sell well or not. You get approached by two different PR companies:
Company A say they can get a sample of your product distributed to
300 people.
Company B say they can get a sample of your product distributed to
3,000,000 people. Which company do you choose?
At this point the only trial any of these mega-corps care about (if they care at all), is the one going on in the real world.
Now this might make it sound like I'm contradicting myself, because I was the one defending this
placebo theory in the first place, but to tell you the truth, I'm not very invested in it. I weighed in because I get sick of seeing people making
@PeteJ out to be a "crazy conspiracy theorist", and also because I dislike
contempt prior to investigation (not that I've never been guilty of it myself, but I try not to be.). But no, I think the
placebo theory is the least likely to be true, because as you may have noticed, Pfizer, and the governments, and the media outlets they have paid off, want
everyone to have these shots; which suggests to me it is not in their interests to have a
control group in existence at all, as a control group may undermine their vaccines, by providing evidence that
natural immunity is as good as, if not better than, vaccination.
I agree that how the public will react to the vaccines will have meaningful information going forward, but placebo groups and experimental groups probably are restricted to participants who are actually enrolled in trials. In that sense that's easier to track how the vaccines work, because it gives researchers opportunity to compare groups with comparable features and analyze their progression. That must be much more troublesome with the general public.
It depends how controlled the trial is. Some companies will put their trial participants up in hotels while they're acting as human guinea pigs. With a clinical trial that lasts two years however, that's unlikely to be the case, thus the difference between a trial group and the general public in this scenario is negligible.
Well, ok. It is doable to trace everyone who got the vaccines, but mainly for hospitalization and death, I doubt that every sore arm, fever, or headache would be followed through batch numbers and so on. Many people don't even report mildish side effects.
Yeah, but that's the thing, I'm quite certain none of these vaccine companies really care about recording these mild symptoms their vaccines are causing, because, just look at the
severe symptoms (that aren't death) that are slipping through the net unreported. The amount of deaths attributed to these vaccines is
high, but the amount of chronic illnesses they've caused in perfectly healthy people is
higher, and
no one cares. The mainstream media
don't want to hear it, the companies who manufactured the vaccines
don't want to hear it, the hospitals, doctors and nurses who gave them the vaccines,
don't want to hear it.
https://peckford42.wordpress.com/20...w-the-medical-establishment-is-ignoring-them/
"But what about VAERS?"
Fewer than 1% of adverse reactions are reported to VAERS:
6000 VAERS reports mysteriously vanish:
https://www.thewellnessway.com/cdc-deletes-6000-deaths-from-vaers/
What you have to come to terms with, is these companies
don't care, they just want to sell as much product as possible, with as little negative press as possible.
And Pete, maybe he was joking, said that lack of reactions of Dan's mom means that she got lucky and probably had the placebo.
I can assure you, he wasn't.
I'll look into the things you said about Pharma companies, thanks.
Let me save you the trouble (as, unlike a lot of people on this website
@Kriszti, you seem open minded).
Bill Gates, a key player in the vaccines and a despicable human being:
(
Bill Gates Documentary - Bing video)
Pfizer's illegal practices and it's frequent shell company fraud:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/just...gest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14493277
https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...ttlement-in-class-action-lawsuit-over-epipens
We live in strange times, you are right, but I guess in emergency use, benefits of the vaccines still probably outweigh the risk of death caused by COVID-19. Maybe in a couple of years we will have more definitive answers.
No, you're wrong. It's tiresome to have to explain the same thing over and over again to different people (consequence of there not being a single thread for this debate). But the risk of death due to COVID-19
does not justify dangerous experimental vaccines.
Because two BIG reasons:
1) The risk of death to every age group under 85, is
below 1%
2) At the start of the pandemic we were told COVID-19 was one of the
most infectious viruses humankind had ever faced. Assuming that was true: You, me, and everyone else on this planet -who doesn't live in an Igloo in Antarctica or the Amazon Rainforest- has already had COVID-19.
You will have had it in the first year
(probably more than once), whether you were aware of it or not
(before you were vaccinated). Did anything bad happen to you in 2020? Did you die? Did your tinnitus explode to unimaginable levels? I'll leave you to answer that.
And over time, COVID-19 would have mutated to become just another cold virus, circulating year round; because that's in a virus's best interest, to
harmonise with it's host, not kill it.
Worst part: The vaccines may actually disrupt that process now, and make the virus
more deadly.
mRNA vaccine inventor: COVID-19 vaccines may make virus more dangerous - LifeSite (lifesitenews.com)
'Leaky' vaccines can make viruses more deadly - Futurity
Vaccines Are Pushing Pathogens to Evolve | Quanta Magazine
I'm not very hopeful to be honest, but COVID-19 can also cause tinnitus and wide range of neurological issues, so maybe we can profit a little bit from that research as well. Fingers crossed.
The risk of tinnitus from COVID-19 has been
greatly exaggerated on this site. There were three studies conducted looking at development of tinnitus in people infected with COVID-19. One found the incidence rate was
4.5%, a second found the incidence rate was
6.6% and a third (the earliest study)
10-15%; guess which one the members of Tinnitus Talk chose to quote in all their "risk assessments"... (because
6.6% just isn't that exciting, is it).
(Anyone who wants to challenge me on those percentages please do, happy to share links to those studies anytime).
So no, we're not going to see a sudden large influx of tinnitus sufferers joining us.
And even if that higher figure had been accurate, that ship has sailed (because if we were going to see a massive spike in our numbers, it would have already happened, between 2020 and 2021, but it didn't).
However
@PeteJ is right, what COVID-19 hysteria
is going to do, is further drain funding for our condition; as scared people keep electing to take unsafe drugs to "stay safe", get sick with autoimmune, vascular and neurodegenerative illnesses, and push our condition further into obscurity.
So another reason to not off ourselves because of tinnitus to have the chance to "know the truth" about these lovely times in hindsight. (Sorry for being a bit morbid, having a shitty day.)
You're being too optimistic. People are already developing health problems
months after getting their vaccine and making no connection. I already know several people that have developed health problems, and have thought of everything that might have caused their problem,
except the vaccine. Because that's how people work
@Kriszti, if there is no immediate consequence to the action, people believe what they did was safe/okay.
People will (likely) be dying and getting ill over the next ten years, and never concluding their vaccination was the cause; because
"long-term risk" is too difficult a concept for the average human to get their head round, apparently. (Something I've learnt this year).
So no, I'm afraid we may never
"know the truth". What we can live to see though, is countries like mine (and others in western Europe, and the US) losing all our freedoms (thanks to cowards; some of whom I have met on this forum) as it becomes okay to:
a) Force people to undergo medical procedures they don't want, in order to work, eat, shop, learn and socialise.
(about to happen in the US).
b) Give children and babies vaccines, even if their parents don't consent.
(being considered in the UK).
c) Encourage children to report their parents to the police for having politically incorrect views or using "hate speech".
(already happening in Scotland).
So yes, we have a lot to live for, to see how far down this nightmare rabbit-hole humanity goes.
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