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Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

#5,372
Jurger said:
Interesting article. Curious what this means for their Phase 2 results.
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No doubt... We should bump this over to the Audion thread.

I am curious as well and have been searching for any news of the phase 2 trial... the quote was honest and cryptic for those of us feeling desperate. "Hopefully we can come up with something"....
 
#5,373
d'Wooluf said:
I found this quote from the main Audion guy:

But Jan Rutten is adamant that he is far from declaring Audion anywhere close to a eureka moment just yet. "Before you hear me claim such a thing, I think it is really important to do the clinical research," he says. "I think the biggest disservice that we can do to the field is to project unrealistic expectations," he says. There's a lot of good scientists at a lot of different companies doing the work, and "hopefully we'll come up with something."​

I don't know if he was aiming this at Frequency Therapeutics but I think it applies to them. FX-322 may eventually be a working treatment (I hope so), but I do believe they declared their "eureka moment" much too soon.
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Why would he be aiming at Frequency Therapeutics? Does he have access to results we don't have? Even if Frequency is not a complete cure, I think their product at least improves hearing and this is one reason I'm so much less confident about Audion, if they come up with better eventually, you might need your supporting cells to make those future therapies work.
 
#5,374
FGG said:
Why would he be aiming at Frequency Therapeutics? Does he have access to results we don't have? Even if Frequency is not a complete cure, I think their product at least improves hearing and this is one reason I'm so much less confident about Audion, if they come up with better eventually, you might need your supporting cells to make those future therapies work.
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Wondering what a 10-20 dB bump in high frequencies would do for people who have across the board hearing loss. Won't necessarily mean the quality of your hearing will be 'better'. I'm sure audiologists can shine a light on that.
 
#5,375
FGG said:
Even if you can't get an official extended audiogram this should give you an idea. There is a reproducible point where it goes from audible to immediately silent when I test with this and it corresponds to my steep slope on extended audiogram. May be harder to tell with more subtle loss though.

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If your speakers don't have a frequency response past a certain point you can't hear it. You need pro headphones to use this.
 
#5,377
Flamingo1 said:
Yes, I did. If you want the stock Tinnitus Talk members, better buy it now. It's already up over 10% from the IPO! The upgrades should move it up even more...

https://www.marketbeat.com/stocks/NASDAQ/FREQ/price-target/
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Yes, well, it's already been down 10% and up 10% from its IPO price. So definitely you need to have a solid stomach to own this one. But it did just get a slew of upgrades, based on the FDA fast-track status. I bought 5K... so I'm in the game at least!
 
#5,378
Discover a drug to regenerate hair cells, useful only for high frequencies... that seems stupid to me. I think that Frequency managers are just protecting themselves before phase 2a results, since the data of the first phase says that the drug reached only the first parts of the cochlea (one injection).
Finding a cure to hearing loss was the biggest difficulty, reaching the apex of the cochlea is just a detail comparing to that.
Frequency Therapeutics just wants to adapt their official expectations to the phase 1 results in order to reduce the risk of failing.

I have 20 dB loss in 2000 Hz in both ears with tinnitus due to loud noises, and I'm still confident that these drugs will do a lot for everyone of us in the future, let's show some hope guys, we will make it reach, even by gravity!
 
#5,379
RingingBrother said:
This made my tinnitus spike when it got into the higher frequency lol.
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Yeah, good to be careful with this one. I kept the volume wayyy down and had to go even lower when the frequency was getting higher. I don't know if it's the physics of the tone or just my own circumstance, but at *some* of the higher frequencies, somewhat before my hearing dies out (around 9400-9700 Hz), it felt relay piercing. Haven't explored the low end yet, where I have significant single-sided loss.

Need to read up more on hidden hearing loss.
 
#5,381
Chriscom said:
Yeah, good to be careful with this one. I kept the volume wayyy down and had to go even lower when the frequency was getting higher. I don't know if it's the physics of the tone or just my own circumstance, but at *some* of the higher frequencies, somewhat before my hearing dies out (around 9400-9700 Hz), it felt relay piercing. Haven't explored the low end yet, where I have significant single-sided loss.

Need to read up more on hidden hearing loss.
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I want to include a disclaimer with this one, and don't mean it for you necessarily, but others lurking. These 'online tests' are VERY biased to the speaker set in use. For example small earbuds will often replicate higher frequencies better and make them sound louder. But with age the higher frequencies will dull first as free-play is introduced into the speaker structure. So it should be noted that not too much weight should be placed on them.
 
#5,383
tarmaced said:
I want to include a disclaimer with this one, and don't mean it for you necessarily, but others lurking. These 'online tests' are VERY biased to the speaker set in use. For example small earbuds will often replicate higher frequencies better and make them sound louder. But with age the higher frequencies will dull first as free-play is introduced into the speaker structure. So it should be noted that not too much weight should be placed on them.
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Yeah. I should have mentioned it is not precise and subject to a lot of equipment variables but, personally, when I had SSHL and 4 different ENTs told me my audiogram was fine (and therefore my hearing was), I looked for something at home to confirm what I already knew and used it to finally convince one to give me an extended audiogram which showed the damage. I knew my loss was around 12000 Hz (among my other hearing issues) months before an audiologist finally confirmed it.

I wish extended audiograms were routine as a lot of people with tinnitus, synaptopathy, etc first show changes in the higher frequencies. Even those with primarily hidden hearing loss can start to lose age matched frequencies on the higher end much quicker.
 
#5,385
ChrisBoyMonkey said:
Dang. They should let people like us through anyways, it is an experiment after all..

Maybe in future trials they'll expand it. It might be a verifying safety type thing that excludes us.
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Well, I think because of extended use policies that if your doctor agreed, and Frequency Therapeutics agreed, then I don't see any reason why you couldn't.
 
#5,386
JohnAdams said:
Well, I think because of extended use policies that if your doctor agreed, and Frequency Therapeutics agreed, then I don't see any reason why you couldn't.
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Only thing is the way Frequency Therapeutics has been so clandestine, I kind of have my doubts they would.

Because I'm doing the Otonomy thing, I'd have to wait at least 6 months before trying though.
 
#5,388
MattS said:
Yes, well, it's already been down 10% and up 10% from its IPO price. So definitely you need to have a solid stomach to own this one. But it did just get a slew of upgrades, based on the FDA fast-track status. I bought 5K... so I'm in the game at least!
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Glad you are in the game... Hopefully you'll triple your investment.

It would be awesome if members could donate 50 dollars to Tinnitus Talk and keep this place in the game. The staff work for free in their spare time. Is there a return on investment here? Is there a quantifiable value provided?
Answer is yes.

Sorry folks... I can't afford stock but I can scrounge to help this place that we all use.

Clearly the tinnitus community will never fund jack. Come on FX-322 and commercial ventures...

That is the big concern about Hough Ear Institute... sadly.
 
#5,389
FGG said:
Yeah. I should have mentioned it is not precise and subject to a lot of equipment variables but, personally, when I had SSHL and 4 different ENTs told me my audiogram was fine (and therefore my hearing was), I looked for something at home to confirm what I already knew and used it to finally convince one to give me an extended audiogram which showed the damage. I knew my loss was around 12000 Hz (among my other hearing issues) months before an audiologist finally confirmed it.

I wish extended audiograms were routine as a lot of people with tinnitus, synaptopathy, etc first show changes in the higher frequencies. Even those with primarily hidden hearing loss can start to lose age matched frequencies on the higher end much quicker.
Click to expand...
The thing with ultra-high frequency hearing loss and tinnitus is that lots of (older) people have that kind of hearing loss as well, without having tinnitus. There's probably something else going on too. That's one of the reasons we need better diagnostics for the inner ear. Testing perilymph, imaging technology etc.
 
#5,395
JohnAdams said:
I think the sudden damage creates an inflammation feedback loop that keeps the synapses inflamed and causing tinnitus.
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John, do you have any hypotheses about tinnitus fluctuations?

Gradual damage is probably better and less harmful. Some explain that the brain adapts better to gradual losses. Who knows.
 
#5,396
d3968fe5c1a72b7cf47de382eae81996.png


I don't know if this is helpful or has been posted or discussed before.
 
#5,397
Don Tinny said:
John, do you have any hypotheses about tinnitus fluctuations?
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Kinda. The fact that it fluctuates for some people leads me to believe that it is not as simple as "tinnitus is in the brain". It makes me think that it is a nerve dysfunction, likely at the synapses in the cochlea, they are healing a little, then getting worn out on a cycle. Me thinks.
 

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