GABA Supplements (Including Picamilon)

[gintas]

No, it's much more direct than that.

Specifically, this sentence, while technically true, is highly misleading:

This is true (in the short term, see below), but benzodiazepines increase the action of GABA, causing chloride channels to open in the presence of GABA to a greater degree than they do otherwise. So, without actually modulating the amount of GABA in the brain, the GABA which is present has the same effect as a greater amount of GABA would in absence of the benzo... "virtual GABA", so to speak.

In the long term, the brain becomes acclimated to the increased action of GABA, and responds by downregulating GABA receptors and potentially even shorting the supply. This is why I think benzos are, eventually, a worse-than-zero-sum game: if your problem (tinnitus, seizures, whatever) is caused by, basically, a GABA insufficiency, taking benzos for an extended period will eventually make your problem worse.

so, if to take just GABA supplement ?

 

[Mark662]

@gintas
GABA supplements do not cross the blood brain barrier effectively, so taking it is virtually pointless. The brain is where GABA is used and can have a potentially calming effect.

Picamilon, a Russian-developed supplement, combines vitamin B3 (niacin) with GABA, and this does pass into the brain. Taking B3 and GABA as individual supplements will not have the same effect.

 

[Michael Hamond]

I've read in a health magazine that GABA supplements work well for helping you fall asleep. I am off all antidepressants and am looking for ways to help me sleep naturally. Anyone use GABA for sleep?

 

[Mark662]

I've read in a health magazine that GABA supplements work well for helping you fall asleep. I am off all antidepressants and am looking for ways to help me sleep naturally. Anyone use GABA for sleep?

I would try 5 HTP and/or L theanine.

If these fail, then valerian

 

[erik]

Pico does nothing. I tried it for a while. Save your money

 

[LetyO]

For sleep try CBD oil with some THC if you are able to acquire it. I was able to sleep without Trazadone while I was on it. Natural and virtually no side effects. Good luck

 

[Sailboardman]

Time released Melatonin still works for me. 5-htp also works, combined with the melatonin.

 

[Bensa]

I've read in a health magazine that GABA supplements work well for helping you fall asleep. I am off all antidepressants and am looking for ways to help me sleep naturally. Anyone use GABA for sleep?

Originally added GABA to my daily supplements following advice from my supplier. Discovered it made me sleepy, so started taking it at night, and no longer have problem of sleepless nights. Dreams more vivid, but no other significant side-affects.

 

[gintas]

Originally added GABA to my daily supplements following advice from my supplier. Discovered it made me sleepy, so started taking it at night, and no longer have problem of sleepless nights. Dreams more vivid, but no other significant side-affects.

for how long do you using it ? how about tolerance ?

 

[Michael Hamond]

Some great ideas here. Melatonin, valerian aren't working for me right now. I am taking 5HTP and GABA. GABA last night did wonders to calm my nerves, but sleep was still tough to achieve. I'm told 5HTP starts to work after a week, so I am hoping these two do the trick in the short term.

 

[Michael Hamond]

I have found that GABA is not working at all. I will go with L-theanine. Any other ideas as to how I can help myself get to sleep are welcome.

 

[Golly]

I have found that GABA is not working at all. I will go with L-theanine. Any other ideas as to how I can help myself get to sleep are welcome.

Low doses (< 15mg) of a relatively safe drug called mirtazapine (a.k.a. Remeron) give most people a great sleep. Talk to your doctor about this option. -G

 

[Mark662]

I have found that GABA is not working at all. I will go with L-theanine. Any other ideas as to how I can help myself get to sleep are welcome.

Doxylamine, an antihistamine, works as a sleep aid. I have used it in the past and it is very effective

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxylamine

 

[Michael Hamond]

Thanks all. I was on Mirtazapine until very recently but had a very severe reaction to it. I am going to go with Trazodone on a low dosage for now until I can transition to something natural.

 

[grate_biff]

I was on Mirtazapine until very recently but had a very severe reaction to it.

What kind of reaction was that?

 

[Michael Hamond]

I woke up one morning (after a week of severe hyperacusis) and found that my right ear had almost completely shut down. The ringing in the right ear was the loudest it's ever been, both ears had intense hyperacusis and all sound was completely distorted. I couldn't hear people across a room, I could not hear my own voice properly, I couldn't watch TV and I could barely function. I will never go back to that medication, even though it worked well initially.

 

[Michael Hamond]

Happy to report that GABA works well to treat daytime anxiety, but has not been much help at night (too much acid in the stomach before bed!). But 5HTP has managed to help me move closer to sleeping naturally. I was able to reduce my Trazodone dosage to 12.5 mg last night, which is huge for me. The transition off Trazodone has been awful, but I'm hoping with help from GABA during the day and 5HTP at night, I can find my way out of this mess.

 

[dh42]

I take a relatively low dose valium, but am starting to wean off it.

This is what I have found effective for sleep. I've had insomnia issues in the past even before I developed Tinnitus.

1) Wake up at the same time 7 days per week (even if you get to bed later than usual) THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TIP!
2) Exercise when you get up and get exposed to outdoor light in the morning.
3) Have some sort of nighttime ritual to relax and prepare you (I find guided meditation videos such as on Youtube very effective. Deep breathing and muscle relaxation exercises included.
4) Keep a clear mind; do not stress and worry at night. If you do, limit yourself to a 10 minute period earlier in the day and make yourself follow that agreement.
5) Make sure your bedroom is dark and cool (buy blackout blinds if needed to keep very early morning light out).
6) Don't eat 4 hours up to bedtime - helps tremendously with acid reflux issues too. This will keep your blood sugar stable when sleeping.
7) If you're not tired, don't force yourself to go to bed.
8) If you are waking up in the middle of the night, don't aggravate yourself if you cannot get back to sleep and get out of bed and find something relaxing to do (reading with dim light behind you, etc.) until you get sleepy again. If you're only an hour or two before having to get up, you might just want to stay up.
9) Avoid night time stimulants (such as being on computer, etc.) 1-2 hours before bed.
10) Stay busy enough during the day and active if you can. If you are at home all day, find things to do to help fatigue your brain.
11) Don't overthink sleep; doing so makes everything worse. Try to think about other things and it's more likely to happen naturally for you.

As far as meds, I actually found Trazodone effective in the past, but it gave me anxiety attacks. I found Mirtazapine made me groggy and irritable. Doxepin didn't do much. Valium helps me, but not a good long term solution being a benzo. Any medication your body will eventually adapt to anyway unless you keep rotating them over time, but who wants to rely on meds to sleep forever? I never found "natural" supplements to work - but your mileage may vary even if placebo. Ideally, try to stick with behavior cognitive tips I mentioned above as they are really helping me. Best of luck!

 

[jeannie]

Does having gabba levels and seritonin levels slowed down by a drug help with tinnitus? I always thought it did but someone told me it has to be increased?or does it not
matter?thanks!

 

[Joan A.]

Hi @jeannie

Personally and paradoxically when i'm super anxious my t go near the level 0. When i'm not anxious or depressed the tinnitus worse a lot and then start the vicious circle. The brain chemistry in very complex.

About drugs like ssri or gabapentin , they did not work on me. Sometimes I take a supplement called 5-htp that push me inot an horrible anxiety but thank to this last... the tinnitus go to 0. I use it only when i'm despaired. I'm also trying some Benzos by I don't see any benefit.

Misterys

 

[Gerrit]

@Michael Hamond What makes you believe that there is a causal connection with the symptoms you describe and Mirtazapine? Like any other AD, Mirtazapine can have nasty side effects, but to my knowledge (UNlike any other AD) it is not known to cause Tinnitus, Hyperacusis or even hearing loss.

Were you tapering off at that time?

 

[linearb]

@Michael Hamond What makes you believe that there is a causal connection with the symptoms you describe and Mirtazapine? Like any other AD, Mirtazapine can have nasty side effects, but to my knowledge (UNlike any other AD) it is not known to cause Tinnitus, Hyperacusis or even hearing loss.

Were you tapering off at that time?

I've read a number of reports over the years of people developing tinnitus during mirtazapine use.

Obviously in this case, the poster seems to believe that the correlation is a sign of causality; of course we can't say that for sure, but if they had never had these symptoms before, developed them while on the drug, and then had them fade after discontinuing the drug.... well, it quacks like a duck, and it has feathers....

Here's at least one clinical report of mirtazepine causing hearing loss: http://www.psikofarmakoloji.org/pdf/19_4_13.pdf

 

[Philip]

Picamilon wow I almost forgot about this one.

It is ever so slightly calming...which can be helpful when T is bad but when I stopped using it my tinnitus went from 3/10 to 9.5/10...like in the suicide ballpark.

It took days to level out again.

Terrifying.

Alcohol, benzos,gabapentin,GHB, phenibut are all wonderful once in a while to calm you down so you don't go into anxiety meltdown when the T is really hammering at you but they are no solution.

I'm not a neuro chemist...but I feel that while they calm ones nerves in the short term, they only store whatever chemical causes the electrical high pitch tinnitus sound(some say it's glutamate).

But once you cease using (or your tolerance goes up too high) these GABA type drugs there is some sort of chemical avalanche in the brain that turns up the tinnitus.

I will never do benzos,GHB,phenibutt or picamilon again because the kickback is too terrifying.


Gabapentin at 3grams is nice once a month and alcohol once a week with friends.

If I break that rule I'm in for a hellish few days.

 

[zeedra]

This is in agreement with Philip above about dangers of GABA drugs -- I was using the supplement Kavinace and later Kavinace PM as prescribed by a doctor for sleep. It worked really well, and I didn't pay attention to what was in it, thinking it was just some fancy melatonin. And I developed terrible tinnitus. Then reading the label found out it has phenibut. I slept really well with it, have not been able to sleep properly since discontinuing (only a little more than a week now). I'm hoping with time sleep comes back and the tinnitus decreases, but am trying to stay away from any GABA drugs. Am considering plain melatonin, though at the moment want to try to get to normal sleep without supplements.

 

[Atlantis]

And I developed terrible tinnitus. Then reading the label found out it has phenibut.

@linearb here above is another GABA victim.

 

[linearb]

@linearb here above is another GABA victim.

Indeed.

@zeedra in general this tends to be a temporary problem following Phenibut provided someone doesn't consume a huge amount of it over a long period of time. However, you might want to think about stepping the dose down more slowly than just cutting to zero; there's some evidence about benzos which implies the withdrawal is actually what's neurotoxic, and not the use itself. Phenibut might be similar, though this hasn't been studied...

 

[Penate]

So are you here all the time in this forum you gonna stay away from Benzos and AD med but I want one are you guys tell me what are you going to do if you has severe tinnitus for more than six months I have lake six wolf screaming in my head and a big power transformer in the middle in my head 24 /7 ? Can somebody give me advise how I can handle this evil in my head without medication is something I don't know please tell me .

 

[linearb]

So are you here all the time in this forum you gonna stay away from Benzos and AD med but I want one are you guys tell me what are you going to do if you has severe tinnitus for more than six months I have lake six wolf screaming in my head and a big power transformer in the middle in my head 24 /7 ? Can somebody give me advise how I can handle this evil in my head without medication is something I don't know please tell me .

well I personally only managed to get six months (and more) away from that stuff because I thought the risks outweighed the risks of doing nothing... and I only decided that after a bunch of bad experiences with drugs.

As to "how did I deal with it" -- lots of support from compassionate, smart people (some paid professionals, and a lot of love from friends/family). At this point, meditation and exercise help me a lot, but it's very hard to learn those skills when you're already in a crisis state. "Guided body scan" meditations were helpful in getting me through some bad hours/days/weeks, you can find 'em free on Youtube.

 

[Mikie_Mike]

This is interesting ...

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/microbes-can-play-games-mind

 

[meeb]

Bit of a stupid question as most people seem to have no luck with any medication long term but I'm suicidal so thought I'd ask, still waiting for some useless ******* company to deliver melatonin as that used to take the high pitched hissing edge off.