How Long Before Habituation of Perception Kicks In?

[Christian78]

My colleague committed suicide few months ago due to years of clinical depression.
My boss (a heartless bitch) said: that's crazy, we all feel bit down from time to time!

Just another WOW....

people are mean, i wish to go to psychiatry to that idiot of doctor who did not listen me, he spoke and kept watching on his clock, and put explosive and give him big hug and kaboom...

 

[Christian78]

This is me writing in another forum several years ago:

"I certainly have profound suicidal ideations. Now my tinnitus fluctuates between being extremely loud and off the scale.It's just day after day of searing, squealing, hissing madness.Basically, I just don't understand what people are going on about when they use the word 'habituation'. How can one become less aware of sounds that are so loud, incessant, harsh and grating? CBT doesn't impress me either because it deals with cognitive distortions and not the primal emotions of fear,loathing and utter frustration/desperation that are so much a part of one's reaction to tinnitus.Sorry to sound so gloomy. But I see my situation as almost utterly bereft of hope."
"Much as I applaud the courage and tenacity of many of the contributors to this thread, there has to be a place here for people like myself who have struggled with very severe tinnitus for so long and simply do not wish to continue with that struggle any longer.We deserve the option of assisted suicide."

I think that I made this post (in the old RNID forum when I had had tinnitus for about 18 months) and was getting nowhere.

To cut a long story short, several years further down the road, I have now habituated to a point where I find my tinnitus occasionally annoying and distracting. When it is at its peak, I can still sometimes go several hours without noticing it, even if I'm sitting in a relatively silent room.

You may draw whatever conclusions you like after reading this. Maybe you will think. 'Ah, this guy's tinnitus couldn't have been all that loud in the first place'. And that's fair enough. Tinnitus is a subjective experience that makes comparisons difficult. Plus, although my tinnitus is 'reactive' and fluctuates, I don't have accompanying ear pain or hyperacusis.

All I am saying is that I was in a very bad place for a very long time and yet I still got through it. The logic of habituation (that if you decouple the infernal racket from the profoundly aversive reaction it provokes it will slip below the level conscious awareness) has, in the long run, proved to be valid in my case. And I now consider CBT to be one way to facilitate this process.

This may not be any kind of substitute for a cure. But it is way beyond stoic endurance. I'm not merely putting up with tinnitus, or 'coping' with it.

Anyway, perhaps reading what I have written will encourage a few people not to lose hope. That is all I am aiming for.

who talk you into surviving so long and do you honestly beleave in trt or some told you to make this post?

 

[Christian78]

If I needed the money, I sure as hell wouldn't be doing TRT. I'd sell hearing aids or something like that! Now there's where the money is!

But I'd still really like to get the focus back on the subject of this thread, which is habituation.

so you see, there is honesty doctor, trt, hearing aids... they all fight to undermine to make medicine to cure tinnitus, all is about living and squashing and drying out poor patients, we are like oranges when they get into machine.

as i see you last spike went totally out, because one don't habituate in 1,5 months at least i believe, that was some temporary spike... although my friends think it was fake but i don't, it was temporary spike.

 

[Miss lavender]

Thank you this is a very encouraging post, it gives us hope and hope at this stage is all we have.

 

[Christian78]

Somebody here asked why I didn't help this lady. And I responded that since she never asked, I never had the chance.

That her story is a tragedy is a fact beyond debate. But whether it could have been a preventable tragedy is something we do not know. In fact there is a lot about her that we do not know. We only know what we have seen in a brief documentary. And to be honest with you, as far as I can tell from that documentary, she seems like a pretty typical patient in my practice and in the practices of those who like me have chosen to work with patients with severe intrusive tinnitus.

i think keppra and trobalt would help save hers life, surely not TRT ot CBT as she tried it, she is not idiot, she was everywhere, and she was doing CBT, she was going out, working, swimming... but CBT is not helping severe chronic cases

 

[valeri]

This is me writing in another forum several years ago:

"I certainly have profound suicidal ideations. Now my tinnitus fluctuates between being extremely loud and off the scale.It's just day after day of searing, squealing, hissing madness.Basically, I just don't understand what people are going on about when they use the word 'habituation'. How can one become less aware of sounds that are so loud, incessant, harsh and grating? CBT doesn't impress me either because it deals with cognitive distortions and not the primal emotions of fear,loathing and utter frustration/desperation that are so much a part of one's reaction to tinnitus.Sorry to sound so gloomy. But I see my situation as almost utterly bereft of hope."
"Much as I applaud the courage and tenacity of many of the contributors to this thread, there has to be a place here for people like myself who have struggled with very severe tinnitus for so long and simply do not wish to continue with that struggle any longer.We deserve the option of assisted suicide."

I think that I made this post (in the old RNID forum when I had had tinnitus for about 18 months) and was getting nowhere.

To cut a long story short, several years further down the road, I have now habituated to a point where I find my tinnitus occasionally annoying and distracting. When it is at its peak, I can still sometimes go several hours without noticing it, even if I'm sitting in a relatively silent room.

You may draw whatever conclusions you like after reading this. Maybe you will think. 'Ah, this guy's tinnitus couldn't have been all that loud in the first place'. And that's fair enough. Tinnitus is a subjective experience that makes comparisons difficult. Plus, although my tinnitus is 'reactive' and fluctuates, I don't have accompanying ear pain or hyperacusis.

All I am saying is that I was in a very bad place for a very long time and yet I still got through it. The logic of habituation (that if you decouple the infernal racket from the profoundly aversive reaction it provokes it will slip below the level conscious awareness) has, in the long run, proved to be valid in my case. And I now consider CBT to be one way to facilitate this process.

This may not be any kind of substitute for a cure. But it is way beyond stoic endurance. I'm not merely putting up with tinnitus, or 'coping' with it.

Anyway, perhaps reading what I have written will encourage a few people not to lose hope. That is all I am aiming for.

I hope you are for real because this is what a member of yuku board wrote many years ago.

I doubt you are the same person!

I'm just not sure why would someone copy/paste from another forum as say this is me!

 

[Christian78]

I can not believe some of these comments, lost for words, I will leave it at that.

we need to fight to show truth, fake doctors and hearing aids that are solution. we need real thing solution acting on tinnitus. not acting on trying to "hypnotise you" so you don't have t....

this is same like you lose your leg and you cant walk, and then you go to dr Negler who do TRT for you and explain your leg is still there but you should use wheelchair because it is more comfortable, and you should not pay attention on pain in leg because it actually it is fake pain, and send you to by hearing aid= prosthetic for leg so you don't notice you are missing leg...

all fake thing...

 

[Christian78]

You must have mild tinnitus...If you know what super high pitch tinnitus, with hyperacusis and reactive tinnitus...Then you'll know why death would be a better option than living. But thankfully, with keppra with can get rid of hyperacusis and reactive tinnitus. With trobalt we can reduce tinnitus to acceptable levels. But here's the challenge, try getting these meds, as doctors don't care and they don't care if you die, because they refused you medication. I hope you never have to experience this, but have sympathy for others.

i totally agree, i wrote in a comment keppra and trobalt would save her life

 

[dan]

This is me writing in another forum several years ago:

"I certainly have profound suicidal ideations. Now my tinnitus fluctuates between being extremely loud and off the scale.It's just day after day of searing, squealing, hissing madness.Basically, I just don't understand what people are going on about when they use the word 'habituation'. How can one become less aware of sounds that are so loud, incessant, harsh and grating? CBT doesn't impress me either because it deals with cognitive distortions and not the primal emotions of fear,loathing and utter frustration/desperation that are so much a part of one's reaction to tinnitus.Sorry to sound so gloomy. But I see my situation as almost utterly bereft of hope."
"Much as I applaud the courage and tenacity of many of the contributors to this thread, there has to be a place here for people like myself who have struggled with very severe tinnitus for so long and simply do not wish to continue with that struggle any longer.We deserve the option of assisted suicide."

I think that I made this post (in the old RNID forum when I had had tinnitus for about 18 months) and was getting nowhere.

To cut a long story short, several years further down the road, I have now habituated to a point where I find my tinnitus occasionally annoying and distracting. When it is at its peak, I can still sometimes go several hours without noticing it, even if I'm sitting in a relatively silent room.

You may draw whatever conclusions you like after reading this. Maybe you will think. 'Ah, this guy's tinnitus couldn't have been all that loud in the first place'. And that's fair enough. Tinnitus is a subjective experience that makes comparisons difficult. Plus, although my tinnitus is 'reactive' and fluctuates, I don't have accompanying ear pain or hyperacusis.

All I am saying is that I was in a very bad place for a very long time and yet I still got through it. The logic of habituation (that if you decouple the infernal racket from the profoundly aversive reaction it provokes it will slip below the level conscious awareness) has, in the long run, proved to be valid in my case. And I now consider CBT to be one way to facilitate this process.

This may not be any kind of substitute for a cure. But it is way beyond stoic endurance. I'm not merely putting up with tinnitus, or 'coping' with it.

Anyway, perhaps reading what I have written will encourage a few people not to lose hope. That is all I am aiming for.

Ah Welcome to TTalk, Urusaidesune - is Yuku forum getting a little bit slow and boring for you? Nobody to poke fun at anymore?
May I ask you a question, why do you still constantly post on tinnitus boards religiously, after so many years? Why not move on with your life?

 

[valeri]

we need to fight to show truth, fake doctors and hearing aids that are solution. we need real thing solution acting on tinnitus. not acting on trying to "hypnotise you" so you don't have t....

this is same like you lose your leg and you cant walk, and then you go to dr Negler who do TRT for you and explain your leg is still there but you should use wheelchair because it is more comfortable, and you should not pay attention on pain in leg because it actually it is fake pain, and send you to by hearing aid= prosthetic for leg so you don't notice you are missing leg...

all fake thing...

I haven't laughed this much in ages.
Thank you Christian!

 

[Sleaford Mod]

Valeri, I post on the TSMB as 'urusaidesune'. It's a Japanese expression that means 'loud, isn't it?'. On the RNID forum I used to post as 'urusai'. That's an adjective that means 'loud'.

I chose 'Sleaford Mod' here because I like the band 'Sleaford Mods', especially the song 'Jobseeker'. Weirdly, I can still listen to music (though not too loudly) without the tinnitus spoiling things.

Unfortunately, the long hours I have to work mean that I can't get involved with all the shenanigans that go on in tinnitus forums whenever the word 'habituation' is brought up.

So whenever I get the chance to post from now on, I'll make the point that my contribution is a stand-alone one, as I really don't have the time to get involved with debates for the time being. This, for example, will have to be my last contribution today. I need to eat lunch and then grab a kip.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

as i see you last spike went totally out, because one don't habituate in 1,5 months at least i believe, that was some temporary spike... although my friends think it was fake but i don't, it was temporary spike.

My tinnitus has not changed since it spiked. The spike was not temporary at all. What happened is that I habituated to the new tinnitus. You are wrong when you say you cannot habituate in 1.5 months. If you originally habituated doing TRT, you can habituate to a new tinnitus sound (in this case, a permanent spike) using TRT in relatively short order.

 

[valeri]

Ah Welcome to TTalk, Urusaidesune - is Yuku forum getting a little bit slow and boring for you? Nobody to poke fun at anymore?
May I ask you a question, why do you still constantly post on tinnitus boards religiously, after so many years? Why not move on with your life?

I don't think it's Uru!

 

[Telis]

we need to fight to show truth, fake doctors and hearing aids that are solution. we need real thing solution acting on tinnitus. not acting on trying to "hypnotise you" so you don't have t....

this is same like you lose your leg and you cant walk, and then you go to dr Negler who do TRT for you and explain your leg is still there but you should use wheelchair because it is more comfortable, and you should not pay attention on pain in leg because it actually it is fake pain, and send you to by hearing aid= prosthetic for leg so you don't notice you are missing leg...

all fake thing...

Yeah I see your point Christian. Oh man did you just having me laughing though

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Ah Welcome to TTalk, Urusaidesune - is Yuku forum getting a little bit slow and boring for you? Nobody to poke fun at anymore? May I ask you a question, why do you still constantly post on tinnitus boards religiously, after so many years? Why not move on with your life?

Perhaps because he cares?

I mean, that's why I do it! Why else would I put up with all the crap folks hurl in my direction? As has recently been pointed out by somebody else, I surely don't do it for the money!

 

[dan]

I don't think it's Uru!

Valeri, I post on the TSMB as 'urusaidesune'. It's a Japanese expression that means 'loud, isn't it?'. On the RNID forum I used to post as 'urusai'. That's an adjective that means 'loud'.

Valeri, if I say somebody is someone, its 95% accurate . lol

 

[dan]

Perhaps because he cares?

He cared enough to poke fun at me on the Yuku board. Or do you have a short memory?
But my point is, it isnt healthy or normal behaviour to constantly spend days on many tinnitus boards arguing, poking fun and obssessing about tinnitus.
I think he needs psychological counseling....maybe the 4 years of suffering caused him PTSD.

 

[valeri]

Valeri, I post on the TSMB as 'urusaidesune'. It's a Japanese expression that means 'loud, isn't it?'. On the RNID forum I used to post as 'urusai'. That's an adjective that means 'loud'.

I chose 'Sleaford Mod' here because I like the band 'Sleaford Mods', especially the song 'Jobseeker'. Weirdly, I can still listen to music (though not too loudly) without the tinnitus spoiling things.

Unfortunately, the long hours I have to work mean that I can't get involved with all the shenanigans that go on in tinnitus forums whenever the word 'habituation' is brought up.

So whenever I get the chance to post from now on, I'll make the point that my contribution is a stand-alone one, as I really don't have the time to get involved with debates for the time being. This, for example, will have to be my last contribution today. I need to eat lunch and then grab a kip.

Sorry my bad!
It's just that in the past there were posts some used as their own.

I remember your post very well, read it million times as I have it saved in my phone.
You are indeed an inspiration!
I just thought there's no way you would just recently joined this forum.

Apologies once again and welcome!

 

[attheedgeofscience]

@Vincent R I totally agree with your approach. Vincentasana has a nice ring to it! Those Neuromonics dudes actually charge the audiologists $2540 USD and the audiologist then tacks on about as much for his/her profit, for a grand total of $5000 - $6000 USD charged to the poor tinnitus sufferer. Then if the person with tinnitus does not improve, or gets worse, it is the clients fault, and definitely not the fault of the little Neuromonics iPod thingy. My unit is in perfectly good shape (but collecting dust) if anyone would like to buy it for a really good deal! Unfortunately, no audiologist will program it for you, because he/she will lose out on the profit. I found that out when I tried to change audiologists.

As it happens, I spent an entire afternoon a while back applying my financial skills to researching the audiology and hearing aids market - and the two posts below are the result of that:

1. www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/low-level-laser-therapy-lllt-for-tinnitus-%E2%80%94-efficacy-debate.7650/page-8#post-87956
2. www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/low-level-laser-therapy-lllt-for-tinnitus-%E2%80%94-efficacy-debate.7650/page-9#post-88145

The following article was especially interesting:

www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backgroundbriefing/2014-11-30/5920176

 

[Dr. Nagler]

He cared enough to poke fun at me on the Yuku board. Or do you have a short memory?

My world does not revolve around you, dan. So if a few years ago somebody poked fun at you on another board, you will have to forgive me if I do not recall. Why don't you tell us all about it? Did you perhaps deserve it because you were poking fun at somebody else at the time?

 

[Christian78]

I'm with you @Telis , volume does matter, when my T is playing up and the intensity increases, I feel totally miserable, I don't enjoy my job and can't wait to get home so I can remove my ear plugs and try and mask it, I find I cannot turn my truck off during my work day or even stop and relax at a tea room because with my ear plugs in the T is so loud, it gives me headaches.

When I get quiet days I actually love being at work and really enjoy my day, I'm able to sit down in a quiet tea room and relax even with ear plugs in.

Volume matters big time and I am sick of some members here who seem to down play it's importance!

I TOTALY AGREE, i think when those thing happens i become like dog with rabies, i would bit anyone who come close to me on 2 meters or i would run screaming 20 meters away from GOOD concrete wall and hit with my head with full power...

I dont know why doctors dont put us in coma state for a week so we can relax and sleep and get refresh so we can fight again...

 

[tinnitussufferer]

My world does not revolve around you, dan. So if a few years ago somebody poked fun at you on another board, you will have to forgive me if I do not recall. Why don't you tell us all about it? Did you perhaps deserve it because you were poking fun at somebody else at the time?

how did you get your spike in tinnitus? its scary that you say it was a permanent spike

 

[Dr. Nagler]

how did you get your spike in tinnitus? its scary that you say it was a permanent spike

I do not know what resulted in my spike. And it was indeed scary; it was scary as hell because my tinnitus had been stable for twenty years, and I was worried sick that it wouldn't settle back down.

But here's the thing. It didn't settle back down. What happened is that I habituated to the spike. And now I'm just fine. My tinnitus has changed markedly - but I am just fine.

 

[dan]

My world does not revolve around you, dan. So if a few years ago somebody poked fun at you on another board, you will have to forgive me if I do not recall. Why don't you tell us all about it? Did you perhaps deserve it because you were poking fun at somebody else at the time?

Your world does not revolve around me, it revolves around tinnitus. Although, there was a period where your world did revolve around poking fun at me, along with you buddies Uru and Llilly.
In fact you have already APOLOGIZED to me personally in public on Yuku for making fun of me.
I can repost your apology since you have a short memory if you wish.

 

[dan]

To All:
I am sorry to have to talk about other forums and old quarrels, but I feel it necessary because
these people seem to be migrating from the other forum and I dont want other people to be hurt/baited/etc as I did or have to go thru the same humiliation -if it were to happen.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Your world does not revolve around me, it revolves around tinnitus.

Much of my world does revolve around tinnitus. I know first-hand how devastating it can be - and after I overcame it, I decided to devote myself to helping others do the same. I do not particularly find anything wrong with that.

In fact you have already APOLOGIZED to me personally in public on Yuku for making fun of me. I can repost your apology since you have a short memory if you wish.

Sure. Repost my apology. And while you're at it repost about my offer to fly from Atlanta to Toronto and spend as much time as necessary trying to help you in your time of need at absolutely no cost to you. You turned the offer down, of course, but you eventually posted about it on Yuku anyway - so I have no problem mentioning it here. Isn't it time to stop with the charade?

 

[dan]

So you admit to apologizing to me, so then it is not necessary to spend my time digging up that garbage.

I turned you offer down politely because at the time I felt that just talking about my T over lunch, will not help me overcome my tinnitus. Simple.

 

[tinnitussufferer]

I do not know what resulted in my spike. And it was indeed scary; it was scary as hell because my tinnitus had been stable for twenty years, and I was worried sick that it wouldn't settle back down.

But here's the thing. It didn't settle back down. What happened is that I habituated to the spike. And now I'm just fine. My tinnitus has changed markedly - but I am just fine.

so when did this spike happen? how can you be sure it is an increase? its hard to really tell if theres been a change unless its a severe change.
what actually changed, did it just get louder?

 

[tinnitussufferer]

Your world does not revolve around me, it revolves around tinnitus. Although, there was a period where your world did revolve around poking fun at me, along with you buddies Uru and Llilly.
In fact you have already APOLOGIZED to me personally in public on Yuku for making fun of me.
I can repost your apology since you have a short memory if you wish.

why would he poke fun? he is a distinguished doctor who posts under his real name and shows his identity. He has nothing to hide and much to lose.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

so when did this spike happen?

Probably three months ago. I posted about it at the time.

how can you be sure it is an increase? its hard to really tell if theres been a change unless its a severe change.
what actually changed, did it just get louder?

Well, it sure sounds a lot louder. But you are right - it's really hard to tell. So a week or so after it happened I went back to my audiologist and had a repeat pitch and loudness match performed ... because as loud as my tinnitus had been before, I couldn't imagine how it could possibly have gotten any louder. And it turns out that I was right about that. The loudness had not changed at all. It was the pitch that had changed so dramatically - my brain was just interpreting it as a change in loudness. Go figure.