How Long Before Habituation of Perception Kicks In?

[attheedgeofscience]

I could swear they're supposed to play four tunes pitched after a persons T

I believe Neuromonics' top model, Oasis, is "tailored" according to the patient's tinnitus. But I could be wrong, and I free admit it (because I would never want to spend money on Neuromonics, and hence I have not much experience with the company/product...).

 

[RichL]

Rich, what exactly do you do to predictably turn down the volume of your tinnitus? For me, I could never figure out how to predictably turn down the volume of mine. So I stopped trying long ago. But if you have figured it out, I think that's wonderful - and I am very happy for you.

I have reread my post several times and I can't for the life of me understand how in the world you got this...

what exactly do you do to predictably turn down the volume of your tinnitus? For me, I could never figure out how to predictably turn down the volume of mine.

From this.....

I'm with you @Telis , volume does matter, when my T is playing up and the intensity increases, I feel totally miserable, I don't enjoy my job and can't wait to get home so I can remove my ear plugs and try and mask it, I find I cannot turn my truck off during my work day or even stop and relax at a tea room because with my ear plugs in the T is so loud, it gives me headaches.

When I get quiet days I actually love being at work and really enjoy my day, I'm able to sit down in a quiet tea room and relax even with ear plugs in.

Volume matters big time and I am sick of some members here who seem to down play it's importance!

I can only assume that you are A. either being very arrogantly facetious or B.Treating myself and my post with arrogant disdain!
Either way I don't appreciate this kind of bulls#@t answer!

Please explain and I will gladly apologize if this is not how you meant to come across, but I'm afraid I cannot see any other reason for this deceitful post!

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Please explain ...

OK. Most folks with intrusive tinnitus feel worse when their tinnitus is louder and better when their tinnitus is less loud, which is what I think you are saying - and I happen to agree with you. My point is that in 2015 we have no way to predictably and lastingly make our tinnitus less loud. If we did, the whole conversation on this board would change - if there were a need for a board like this at all! So since we have no way to predictably and lastingly mitigate the intensity of our tinnitus, it seems to me that it might be worthwhile exploring ways to predictably and lastingly mitigate the suffering that the intensity of our tinnitus confers on us without mitigating the intensity of the tinnitus itself.

Now since this is a habituation thread, it seemed especially appropriate to point that out - because habituation is all about predictably and lastingly mitigating the suffering that the intensity of our tinnitus confers on us without mitigating the intensity of the tinnitus itself.

 

[RichL]

OK. Most folks with intrusive tinnitus feel worse when their tinnitus is louder and better when their tinnitus is less loud, which is what you are saying - and I happen to agree with you. My point is that in 2015 we have no predictably and lastingly make our tinnitus less loud. If we did, the whole conversation on this board would change - if there were a need for a board like this at all. So since we have no way to predictably and lastingly mitigate the intensity of our tinnitus, it seems to me that it might be worthwhile exploring ways to predictably and lastingly mitigate the suffering that the intensity of our tinnitus confers on us without mitogating the intensity itself.

Rich, what exactly do you do to predictably turn down the volume of your tinnitus? For me, I could never figure out how to predictably turn down the volume of mine. So I stopped trying long ago. But if you have figured it out, I think that's wonderful - and I am very happy for you.

I never once said in my original post that I can predictably turn the volume of my T down!

Like most on here my T has a life of it's own, some days it's a 10, others it can be 5 or 6, completely out of my hands.

Your post implies that I have figured that out, so I took it how you wrote it!

 

[Dr. Nagler]

I never once said in my original post that I can predictably turn the volume of my T down!

Right, you didn't.

Like most on here my T has a life of it's own, some days it's a 10, others it can be 5 or 6, completely out of my hands.

Right again. The loudness of your tinnitus is completely out of your hands.

Your post implies that I have figured that out, so I took it how you wrote it!

Since this is a habituation thread, I was trying to lead you to explore what steps you might take to mitigate your suffering in spite of the fact that you have no control over loudness of your tinnitus. Apparently you were not prepared to make that leap. So you decided instead to respond to my inquiry with rudeness and vitriol.

 

[RichL]

Since this is a habituation thread, I was trying to lead you to explore what steps you might take to mitigate your suffering in spite of the fact that you have no control over loudness of your tinnitus. Apparently you were not prepared to make that leap. So you decided instead to respond to my inquiry with rudeness and vitriol.

Nice try, turning this around ain't going to work mate!

Actually, I don't like the games you play and I don't like your anecdotal cryptically, If you want to advise me, then by all means advise me but please don't play around with your anecdotes as they will not fool me into seeing a point of view that I don't agree with, if your opinion has merit I will see it without being lead into anything!

What I am trying to say is just be straight up and to the point!

Rich, what exactly do you do to predictably turn down the volume of your tinnitus? For me, I could never figure out how to predictably turn down the volume of mine. So I stopped trying long ago. But if you have figured it out, I think that's wonderful - and I am very happy for you.

How else is one supposed to take this @Dr Nagler?

Apparently you were not prepared to make that leap. So you decided instead to respond to my inquiry with rudeness and vitriol.

What bullsh#@! I am lost for words honestly!

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Nice try, turning this around ain't going to work mate!

I haven't turned anything around.

I commented on a post of yours. You were bothered by my comment because you did not think it fit with what you were trying to say in your post. That can happen on a board. One person means one thing; another person means something else. It's a misunderstanding. So you asked for an explanation, which was a totally reasonable thing to do under the circumstances.

Please explain and I will gladly apologize ...

So I explained what I meant when I commented on your post.

 

[RichL]

I commented on a post of yours.

You completely misquoted my post!

You were bothered by my comment because you did not think it fit with what you were trying to say in your post.

No, I was bothered by your careless and seemingly dishonest misquoting of my post.

It's a misunderstanding.

So you say, I saw it as a deliberate act!

So I gave you an explanation.

Your explanation obviously satisfied yourself, but I'm afraid it was just a continuation of your cryptic anecdote's which you invented for your own tangent.
Which did not alter the fact that you deliberately misquoted me, perhaps I need to re post something that you deliberately overlooked?

Actually, I don't like the games you play and I don't like your anecdotal cryptically, If you want to advise me, then by all means advise me but please don't play around with your anecdotes as they will not fool me into seeing a point of view that I don't agree with, if your opinion has merit I will see it without being lead into anything!

What I am trying to say is just be straight up and to the point!

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Apparently we disagree. That, too, can happen on a board.

I have done the very best I can do to remain civil and respectful under these circumstances, while you have done everything you can do to compound the problem and inflame the situation. I don't know why. I don't care why. But I am so over this childishness.

 

[RichL]

Yea your right, I give up too.

When people deliberately misquote others, it usually means there not at all interested in what anyone thinks or how they feel, their just interested in pushing there own barrow!

Mirror!

 

[RichL]

I have done the very best I can do to remain civil and respectful under these circumstances, while you have done everything you can do to compound the problem and inflame the situation. I don't know why. I don't care why. But I am so over this childishness.

You know on second thoughts,

You think you can post bulls@#t and deliberately screw with people with your dishonesty and then you have the audacity to twist it round and say I'm making things worse?

You inflamed the situation by not recanting your deliberate misquoting of my post, your over this childishness, pot, kettle, black!

I don't know why. I don't care why.

Your the reason why, you are not as clever as you think you are Dr Nagler, you can't win arguments by deliberately misquoting people mate, most intelligent people can see through that!

 

[Dr. Nagler]

I did not misquote you. You made a statement that brought a related question to my mind - so I asked it. There is a very special term for this sort of thing, when one person makes a statement that brings to mind a related question from another person. It's called a conversation.

 

[Christian78]

This concept is generally excepted by them, but not by the people that actually have tinnitus. Everyone knows a volume reduction or "low day" is a good day and life goes on, tinnitus gets put to the background. When professionals spew out this kind of garbage it makes me sick to my stomach. And if the "intrusiveness is not generally a factor" why all these people here trying to lower their T so they can habituate and get back to life? Or why Is there research happening to lower the volume? Why would someone want to spend 40k on hifu surgery to lower the stimulus? I had moderate to loud T at onset, I was starting to habituate in a couple of months, now I have 10 out of 10 T and I can barely function, never mind habituate. I have never, not one time have heard from a T sufferer that a spike does not effect them, obviously it matters, it's just common sense, these so called professionals can't see the signal so they just chalk it all up to reaction, absolutely unbelievable. I guess they make more $$$$ this way.

I have read story after story of people here at TT with minor T for years or decades and it never bothering them or that they had habituated years earlier, and then one day it got worse and now they suffer. These experts don't know anything, or they just choose to believe whatever suits them, all they would have to do is ask any person with tinnitus how they feel if their T spikes or vise versa, it matters. Is this concept really that confusing? I feel like I'm stuck in the twilite zone here. It's the difference between someone whispering at you or screaming at you, is this hard to understand for some? The louder the stimulus the more effect it will have on ANY given person, that goes for voice, music, tinnitus etc etc....anything. It's just a bit of common sense, that's it.

I think professionals that are paid to help tinnitus sufferers should listen to their patients instead of coming up with their own bizzare theories.

It's no wonder there is no treatment to reduce tinnitus, after all according to these "experts" its not even a factor.

People who sell habitation do it also over american tinnitus organization, and they are taking money claiming they are helping tinnitus victims. I wonder if dr. Negler remember that he got really bad and was even considering trobalt... and when he got better well now we can ....

Anyway.... when you dont sleep 5 night in a row you can habitat because you are not sleeping and you are having pains, something that those with so called habituation tinnitus will never understand. And i consider it even rude to impose on us who suffer greatly that it is UP to us to lower our tinnitus so we can say: " hey i don't hear it any more"

 

[Christian78]

Agreed. This is a difficult subject. "Difficult" because there is some amount of subjectivity involved. I did compile statistics for the forum (based on a poll) earlier on:

www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-talk-mini-survey-results.7904/

Pie chart #3 provides a clue as to the severity of tinnitus amongst sufferers who visited TinnitusTalk (i.e. not just members). N = 802, and as can be seen, the most severe category (= "5") is smaller than the two big ones (= "3" and "4").

I have no doubt that members such as @dan @Viking @Telis @SteveToHeal @Christian78 and several others are suffering more than the average person afflicted with tinnitus. They are definitely in category #5 (or possibly even #6 in the above survey...).

attheedgeofscience
07/MAY/2015.

Thank you for recognising my condition... I will try to search for fix for little bit more and if it does not work well i started process at dignitas live with decency, die with decency... and i do not care what people say, I will not stay alive in torture just to make someone happy...

Still i would somehow make telis take trobalt 2 months so at least he can remember how is it to be without tinnitus, somehow in my soul i believe it would help him... but i can't make him do it and dan can tolerate side effects...

 

[MattK]

People who sell habitation do it also over american tinnitus organization, and they are taking money claiming they are helping tinnitus victims. I wonder if dr. Negler remember that he got really bad and was even considering trobalt... and when he got better well now we can ....

Anyway.... when you dont sleep 5 night in a row you can habitat because you are not sleeping and you are having pains, something that those with so called habituation tinnitus will never understand. And i consider it even rude to impose on us who suffer greatly that it is UP to us to lower our tinnitus so we can say: " hey i don't hear it any more"

I understand why it would be frustrating when people like me talk of habituation if your tinnitus really is such that you cannot.

So how about this, let's set aside habituation. What can someone like me do to show meaningful support to someone who is suffering?

 

[marqualler]

@Vincent R @svintegrity

Your discussion reminds me that I found a therapist around here whose psychotherapy approach involves yoga. It sounds fascinating and right up my alley (and covered by insurance since it is psychotherapy!) I asked her if she's ever treated patients with tinnitus and she said no but she is going to check around. I might just take her up on it though regardless since I think I'm doing OK with my tinnitus in general and maybe I can teach her a thing or two (that's what yoga is all about, right?)

 

[RichL]

I did not misquote you. You made a statement that brought a related question to my mind - so I asked it. There is a very special term for this sort of thing, when one person makes a statement that brings to mind a related question from another person. It's called a conversation.

And I will yet again post this in the hope that you may take it on board!

Actually, I don't like the games you play and I don't like your anecdotal cryptically, If you want to advise me, then by all means advise me but please don't play around with your anecdotes as they will not fool me into seeing a point of view that I don't agree with, if your opinion has merit I will see it without being lead into anything!

Rich, what exactly do you do to predictably turn down the volume of your tinnitus?

This, I would have interpreted as a genuine question and would have answered with the respect it deserved.

But when it's followed by this....

But if you have figured it out, I think that's wonderful - and I am very happy for you.

It is, and was, interpreted as a very facetious and smart ass retort from yourself, which is why you got the response that I gave you, I never once said that I had worked out how to control it!

If you were genuine you would have reworded it in your next post and apologized for the confusion but you were obviously to worked up on the tangent that you had decided to run with which comes across as self obsessed and arrogant!

Perception is everything.

 

[Christian78]

I understand why it would be frustrating when people like me talk of habituation if your tinnitus really is such that you cannot.

So how about this, let's set aside habituation. What can someone like me do to show meaningful support to someone who is suffering?

Dear,

Thank you for kind words, but i have progressive reactive tinnitus, from start 20 month it has started, then 8 month later went up 200%, and recently went up 35% (circa, around %) and every time you get bit used to it goes worse...

What can be, well nothing, I am just waiting a day i will wake up with a worse tinnitus...

hug is something that is most welcome, but when you have pain i try to take meds and go into room, and put sound machine, and when it is screeching i don't know what is worse sitting on light in pain, or lay down with sound of ventilators and scream in dark.

look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=17&v=HGcUJ2Dg3uo

 

[luka]

I must say that it's always amusing to read all those heated debates. It's kind of like watching some sort of weird debate club. Fun

I've got my T companion through acoustic trauma accompanied with huge single sided hearing loss. I guess I'm more or less habituated now and I've habituated really quickly. I really believe that a lot of people from Tinnitus talk would be in so much more miserable state than me, having my condition. (Huge single sided hearing loss accompanied with loud and random static hiss with additional short whistle sound effects at the age of 27 - not fun at all)

I'm relatively happy though and I'm highly functional. A lot of time through the day I'm not even aware of my T companion, although I would not really rate it mild, since I can clearly hear it through all the daily surroundings (office, noisy streets, car etc..) I'm capable of that because I made a personal decision to choose to habituate. The personal decision that I guess the majority of Tinnitus talk members could make but a lot of them don't make. This means that I forced my mind into habit of :

- I'm constantly busy,
- I don't measure tinnitus, I don't talk much about tinnitus, I don't hate it, I just keep it as my trusty noisy companion.
- I convinced myself and I believe that this is not permanent condition and that the science will figure it out eventually. Ether through the gen tweaks, drugs or mechanically.
- I protect my ears but I don't obsess about hearing protection and I do mostly everything I've done before the accident. Though I now carry plugs around. The only change is that I don't go to clubs or concerts anymore - but I know that if I really wanted I would probably found a way to go.
- I don't obsess about my companion T becoming worse. I find it silly to measure every mundane sound and everything and to try to live a life in a cocoon. I find it really interesting that people are religiously searching the causes to T in almost everything. One post about excessive masturbation causing T here on tinnitus talk really made my day. Of course T is unpredictable and can get worse, but so is life - you can get hit by a car tomorrow - but will this mean that out of the fear you will never again cross a road ?

Thanks to habituation I'm living a life similar to before the T. I still want to get rid of it and when something viable appears like LLLT therapy I' won't just dismiss it but I'll give it a shot. I'm not desperate though and I don't obsess browse the web for cures.

Habituation and I guess TRT advocated by @Dr. Nagler is a good thing for a individual in the year 2015 from my point of view since it works the best. I hope something better will come along, since habituation and trt also have several disadvantages because they provide "treatment" that is not real "treatment" but merely psychological trick to retrain your mind. It's sort of like patch or painkiller for the wound. Medical space is pushing it as the cure far to much and they are in way preventing a real cure to be found. This means that for average doctor a real tinnitus treatment drug wouldn't even be a big deal, since they are seeing Tinnitus as just a sound and non life threatening condition. Yep, it's hard to understand if you don't experience it.

Besides imagine that everybody would just habituate. @attheedgeofscience , team trobalt and others that are going in out of their way to track for the most promising researches and options would just say, screw that, I've taken TRT, I'm habituated, I don't need that shit anymore.. I guess in the long term people that are not habituated are the real pioneers in science that are pushing for the real solution the most. Too bad that William Shatner with his wast fortune is already habituated

I'm mostly habituated but I strongly applaud and support the effort for the real cure to be found. For that I'll be also prepared to invest a lot of money. As for the habituation I'm fairly confident that the amount of suffering by T depends on each individual alone. I know a lot of people that have really noisy job and have to spend 10+ hours a day in shift where volume jumps up constantly to over 100 decibels in noise, and they are happy to have a job that's not even that well paid. I know that if they can happily endure extreme noise for 10 hours a day, 5 days in week and don't break a sweat, than also I can survive my T that is mild compared to their environment.

Best,

Luka

 

[Christian78]

AT CERTAIN POINT HOPE BECOMES EXHAUSTING!

please watch video and see what i am surviving

This is what happens to me, like lady who died in Netherland, problem gets to be progressive tinnitus that gets worse. This how it happen to me, one little sound then new worsening 200% 8 months later... i could not speak with my mother and i can stand sound of heating elements or sound of how airfryer in kitchen, i turn it on and leave kitchen, and yes those plastic bag cellophane they are the worst and trams, and now again new sound in february... all of it on 20 months...

And dr Negler say it is only up to us to habituate, why he did not habituate this lady, and there is thousand more better experts than him who surely tried to help Gaby but there is no habituation, it is only prank, only for people without tinnitus!

LOOK 4 min:12 sec!



she started to heat it and it got worse and more worse until it took her life.... there is no habituation to progressive tinnitus

I know that for me there is honestly no cure, i get ill and more ill too fast and i dont know how long i will last, but i know i will not life to entertain anyone.... there is point when as she say, hope that it will be better becomes exhausting, for me I just want to end it

 

[linearb]

AT CERTAIN POINT HOPE BECOMES EXHAUSTING!

she started to heat it and it got worse and more worse until it took her life.... there is no habituation to progressive tinnitus

And yet we have many people on here who have habituated to just that!

I know that for me there is honestly no cure, i get ill and more ill too fast and i dont know how long i will last, but i know i will not life to entertain anyone.... there is point when as she say, hope that it will be better becomes exhausting, for me I just want to end it

that's cool, good for you. I enjoy hope because being alive is exciting and death sounds pretty droll to me. Good luck, man.

 

[linearb]

And to be fair to you, @Christian78, you're only two years into this. I remember feeling pretty similar to what you're describing when I was 2 years into my increased tinnitus, in 2011 or so.

I don't feel that way much anymore, and I hope and pray that you're able to have a similar change in experience.

 

[valeri]

Makes me wonder if Trobalt or keppra would make any difference in her life?!
Unfortunately we'll never know

 

[RichL]

Makes me wonder if Trobalt or keppra would make any difference in her life?!
Unfortunately we'll never know

One thing's for sure, I think she was one very brave women taking a step like that, so freaking sad!

 

[valeri]

One thing's for sure, I think she was one very brave women taking a step like that, so freaking sad!

And some still dare to say "it's just a sound" or "loudness doesn't matter"...

Serious reality check needed!!!!

 

[RichL]

And some still dare to say "it's just a sound" or "loudness doesn't matter"...

No wonder it gets heated whenever this is talked about and these same members just don't want to open their eyes and admit what is so blatantly obvious!

 

[valeri]

No wonder it gets heated whenever this is talked about and these same members just don't want to open their eyes and admit what is so blatantly obvious!

It's probably seen as her own fault that she couldn't habituate some harmless sound or that her personality was prone to suffering rather than recovery.

 

[Geo]

It's probably seen as her own fault that she couldn't habituate some harmless sound or that her personality was prone to suffering rather than recovery.

What is habituation really? Nagler has said its when you dont notice it anymore thats crazy when your talking about severe t.. I remember when i had i would say a little over mild t and i will hear it everyday when not masked say Tv or outiside.. I never habituated to it in months but life wasnt as bad either its just noise i trained to accept... But now with this very bad t i couldnt imagine habituating like these people say its crazy talk i believe you can accept it and try to go about ur day but its always right there poking at you and making you mad.. But to fully not hear it or pay attention to it as its not there i dont believe.. And yet someone with mild t that can barely hear his is telling you otherwise im saying in general not pointing out no one ..

 

[Geo]

No wonder it gets heated whenever this is talked about and these same members just don't want to open their eyes and admit what is so blatantly obvious!

And that is the reason why we dont have a cure or treatment... Because certain people act like it isnt that bad when in reality someone is getting eating alive with their loud screaming t ... And some get brainwashed by others saying otherwise

 

[valeri]

No way that what she had could be filtered out or blocked by any brain.

Poor woman, it saddens me even more as she left two children behind.
For a mother to do that there must be a damn good reason.