Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi
Stayed at AETAS residence not the Hotel.

Getting ready to go now, This is what will happen today.



See you all

 

[jazz]

You know my hearing loss is not noticeable too, its high frequency loss, and normal for my age. I am going to go back there and try on the hearing aid again, just to make sure the T sound went away when I put in on, and I'm not just nuts. Of course this was only just when I had the hearing aid on. My T sound is not real loud, but I can hear it over the TV at times, etc. Just thought I could just wear it at night to sleep, and maybe use some sound therapy from it during the day. I'll post back when I try out the hearing aid for the second time.

@patty How are you doing? I am so happy that your hearing aids cover up your tinnitus. I just found your post.

Do you have your audiogram? I wonder what your hearing loss frequencies are? And to what extent? I have minor hearing loss (25-30 dB) from 4000 Hz to 6000 Hz. I bought hearing aids and wore them for a while, but they never covered up my tinnitus. But they helped distract me because they played white noise into my ear. And, while I still wear them when I'm loud, I wonder why they never covered up my tinnitus? This is also true for several other people on the site. I wonder if our audiologists didn't program them correctly?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi All again
As natural had to share the experience.

Arrive 10.00 AM and left the clinic at 6 PM.

Apointment with 4 doctors, witch asked about anything that need to know, I presume.
As already said, I will have autolologos stem cell treatment same as Clhoe and L. Francis.

As small/ fatty guy 165 cm/ 85 Kg fat is somethingg that i have extra. So they removed a total of 200 cc of adipose/ fat. The incision was made on belly button. So no scar to be seen.

From all that "fat", they got a total of 1 300 Million of Adult Stem Cells, ( maybe can sell some, any interested?) , today got the first infusion of 230 million and during next week will get the rest ( 600 Million total or more).Still not decided if will do everything in 5 days or stay some extra time.

I did not got the Pepetide as ATEOS did, but got two syringe direct injections ( I presume 10 cc Serying, 1/3 left ear the other 2/3 on my right ear) , near my ear. They said is the first time they did, and the injections were pure steam cells, they were RED, and the infusion was clear. I asked and they confimed was just steam cells. The rest of the day I start a treatment for my psoriase.

And that´s it.

And of corse top quality treatment, I was never left alone during all time, and everything they do, they explain before, and of corse make you sign a paper giving them authorization for any medical act.

Sheers

 

[tokyotony]

This article is showing promise that the hair cells in the inner ear of mice can be regenerated with a new drug. A bit old but I guess there is hope...and I would also hope this would eventually lead to a reduction in tinnitus if it was brought on my hearing loss...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130109124201.htm

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi all
The treatment finished today.
Since I said I was not interested in baking extra cells from the agreed protocol.
We decided to use all cells.
The total cells collected from the 200 cc Fat were: 1 307 Millions
On the first day I got :
IV infusion = 280 Million
Local / Dermal = 280 Million as well

The rest was split between the 2nd an 3rd injection.

Now there is nothing to do as expect the results. I will keep doing the LLLT at home. And will keep you posted as much as possible.
Today and the days I got the cells injection the T was louder at night time. Actualy yesterday and today morning were calm days.

Fernando
Sheers

 

[spingee]

Hi all
The treatment finished today.
Since I said I was not interested in baking extra cells from the agreed protocol.
We decided to use all cells.
The total cells collected from the 200 cc Fat were: 1 307 Millions
On the first day I got :
IV infusion = 280 Million
Local / Dermal = 280 Million as well

The rest was split between the 2nd an 3rd injection.

Now there is nothing to do as expect the results. I will keep doing the LLLT at home. And will keep you posted as much as possible.
Today and the days I got the cells injection the T was louder at night time. Actualy yesterday and today morning were calm days.

Fernando
Sheers

Do you have also hearing loss or just T?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

hearing loss
and T

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Hi Fernando!

For some reason, I have not noticed this entry of yours until today. Sorry!

From all that "fat", they got a total of 1 300 Million of Adult Stem Cells, ( maybe can sell some, any interested?)

That sure is a lot of stem cells...!

I believe the record amount they have ever harvested in one go is 1,5 billion stem cells (and was actually performed on the managing director of stemcells21 - but I will not name him here as he is not listed on their homepage).

I did not got the Pepetide as ATEOS did, but got two syringe direct injections ( I presume 10 cc Serying, 1/3 left ear the other 2/3 on my right ear) , near my ear. They said is the first time they did, and the injections were pure steam cells, they were RED, and the infusion was clear.

Just to be real clear here: based on what you describe, the injections were not intratympanic, but "dermal" ie. under the skin? Or was it done "deep tissue"?

Do you have photos by any chance? I am not sure what beneficial effect it could have if dermal, but nonetheless interesting.

I do wish - in retrospect - that I had returned to Bangkok instead of going to China for my 2nd treatment.

And of corse top quality treatment, I was never left alone during all time, and everything they do, they explain before, and of corse make you sign a paper giving them authorization for any medical act.

Yes, it is a very nice clinic. Bangkok is not "barefoot" doctors (as some people might think).

Could I possibly ask you to confirm the cost of the treatment that we discussed per e-mail (so that others know too - thanks!). I believe the standard price for the procedure is approximately USD 18,000,-

Thanks for all the details. I hope it works!

Jakob

 

[rainman]

So the price have dropped a little bit? IIRC it was 20+ thousand with your treatment, ateos? Does the quality also rises, like with everything else e.g. computer prices drop and components gets smaller.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi
Total cost 19 ooo USD.
Can send a mail with all protocol.

Yes, the injections were not intratympanic, could say 2 cm from my ear, but out side

The treatments with adipose stem cells are cheaper.
The treatments with with cord steam cells start at 25 000 USD, and can go to whatever amount you want to spend.
Meaning, more cells admnistrated the more expensive.

BUT NOT EVERYBODY CAN GET THE ADIPOSE STEAM CELL TREATMENT. IF YOU HAVE HEART PROBLEAM AND " THIN BLOOD" ( sorry don´t know exact medical term) IS NOT POSSIBLE TO MAKE THE ADIPOSE STEAM CELL PROGRAM

FErnando

@attheedgeofscience
@rainman

 

[attheedgeofscience]

So the price have dropped a little bit? IIRC it was 20+ thousand with your treatment, ateos? Does the quality also rises, like with everything else e.g. computer prices drop and components gets smaller.

No, it is a different treatment that Fernando received - that's the reason for the price difference. I have just checked the prices that were sent to me recently:

1. Umbilical cord stem cells are now priced at USD 28,000,- (last year = USD 25,000,-)
2. Adipose stem cells (= patient's own stem cells) is now priced at USD 19,000,- (last year = USD 15,000,-)

So the prices have gone up by USD 3000,- to 4000,- which is actually quite a bit if you ask me. However, my prediction is that we will see reduction in price over the over long run (as competition increases).

I am not sure why Fernando did not receive the peptide injections (since they are part of the package). Perhaps it was an "informal exchange" of getting a total of four injections, 3IV + 1 set of dermal (instead of the scheduled two IV)? Or perhaps they were deemed irrelevant due to the huge amount of stem cells used in the procedure?

However, there is a price reduction for returning customers - forget what it is...

 

[earsnothappy]

@tokyotony Here's another link about the same people...

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...g-loss-mice/70IeulrWt4TtbusZoW5YYK/story.html

They started a new company and hope to start trials in a few years.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi
Actualy did not received the peptide injections on first infusion, but did received in the 2nd and 3th.
Sorry for not updating that info.

I think the prices went up, cause business looks good.
On last day ( friday) there were 8 patients at the same day at the clinic, and during the week I was there. A
total of 18 patients.

Fernando

 

[patty]

@patty How are you doing? I am so happy that your hearing aids cover up your tinnitus. I just found your post.

Do you have your audiogram? I wonder what your hearing loss frequencies are? And to what extent? I have minor hearing loss (25-30 dB) from 4000 Hz to 6000 Hz. I bought hearing aids and wore them for a while, but they never covered up my tinnitus. But they helped distract me because they played white noise into my ear. And, while I still wear them when I'm loud, I wonder why they never covered up my tinnitus? This is also true for several other people on the site. I wonder if our audiologists didn't program them correctly?

I am doing well. Thank you for asking. I have high frequency hearing loss, about 12,000 hz. I never got hearing aids because my only issue was sleeping. I finally got the right med combo and I sleep well most nights--75 trazadone, 7.5 remeron. I was also going to try TRT, but did not as I started sleeping again. The ringing I only hear in silence, but at night when I try to sleep I just try to embrace it rather let it get to me. I think maybe hearing aids can be programmed to the right tone (your ringing) with an Tinnitus audiologist. That's who I went to to try on a hearing aid. Maybe try a couple different aids also.

 

[cdog]

This portion of the video says the stem cells are attracted to chemokines released near the area of injury :

But what are the chemokines released near damaged/defunct inner hair cells? Are they still released years after inner hair cell destruction?

 

[tomytl]

Here some more important discovery in hair cell development:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140916181953.htm

 

[earsnothappy]

@FERNANDO GIL

Any updates? Thank you!

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

@earsnothappy

Still only one week after the treatment. Actual the weekend was calm. Really nice.
But really to soon to notice anything besides that. My ear still the same.
As everyone that went to stem cell treatment, the 2 months is where you can start to notice
something, if anything happens.

Just dropring on the LLLT for a wille. It´s been 3 months everyday. So now will stop fo a week or two.


I will keep updates as soon I see somehing changes, but defenetly felling better. Last Saturday wake up at
10.30. sleep for 9 hours. Long time din´t happen. Today need to reduce the volume on TV,used to be 17 mark. and today I put it to 9/10 and was ok. So maybe something is hapenning,

Yeterday, was what I can consider my best day since the T start, but today I had it louder almost all day.

One point, I was complanning about the headches, and I stop taking BETA HISTINA, to promote blood circulation, on the ears. And since I stop taking it, my headches disapear. I stoped running cause I thought it was due to make to much exercise. Tomorow I will restart my runs and see what happens.

Sheers
Fernando

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

I am doing well. Thank you for asking. I have high frequency hearing loss, about 12,000 hz. I never got hearing aids because my only issue was sleeping. I finally got the right med combo and I sleep well most nights--75 trazadone, 7.5 remeron. I was also going to try TRT, but did not as I started sleeping again. The ringing I only hear in silence, but at night when I try to sleep I just try to embrace it rather let it get to me. I think maybe hearing aids can be programmed to the right tone (your ringing) with an Tinnitus audiologist. That's who I went to to try on a hearing aid. Maybe try a couple different aids also.

Hi @patty

I did TRT and I have to say it helped in a way, that I was noticing every 15 days that I need to drop the MML by 2 decibels. I started at 31 db, and now is on the 16th. The reason why?
I had a natural regeneration , and got better on the 8 Mhz, now I have a big drop on the 12 Mhz, and the TRT does not mask. The reason is simple, TRT are only made with 8 channels, so if your earing is ok till the 8 Mhz it will not help you. Almost for sure they will make an audiogram only till the 8 Mhz. My opinion.
I don´t use it anymore. But have to admit I used and used a lot.

Sheers
Fernando

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

@patty How are you doing? I am so happy that your hearing aids cover up your tinnitus. I just found your post.

Do you have your audiogram? I wonder what your hearing loss frequencies are? And to what extent? I have minor hearing loss (25-30 dB) from 4000 Hz to 6000 Hz. I bought hearing aids and wore them for a while, but they never covered up my tinnitus. But they helped distract me because they played white noise into my ear. And, while I still wear them when I'm loud, I wonder why they never covered up my tinnitus? This is also true for several other people on the site. I wonder if our audiologists didn't program them correctly?

Hi Jazz , sorry to ask.
But did y9u made an audiogram all the way to 16 Mhz?

Somethingt is not correct, if you did not get your T masked, maybe you need your audiologist to reprogram it.
Or T is not on those frequencies.

Feranado

 

[Valeriya]

@FERNANDO GIL how are you doing ? Can you please recommend me a clinic in BKK where I can get LLLT done. I am just about to purchase MLS for my hearing loss ( no tinnitus) and was wondering if i can do LLLT treatments with more powerful lasers somewhere as well. Cheers VA

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi @Valeriya

For BKK I presume Bangkok.
If so I really don´t know. I get LLLT during my sream cell treatment, but as I´m aware they were not so
powerfull. I think a MLS is a good start. If coming to europe is not an issue, you can consider Dr Wilden in Ibiza
or Anne Harilla in Norway.

Good option taking care of your ears before a possible problem arrise.


Fernando

 

[raymundo2245]

Great research guys, we all appreciate this info, God bless you!

 

[tomytl]

Interesting read:
"This goes against the current belief that only outer hair cells are necessary for this process."
https://hearinglosscure.stanford.ed...-of-supporting-cells-in-frequency-sharpening/

 

[tomytl]

Hi,
here an article about current drugs for Tinnitus/Hearing Loss and an outlook.
Including: Auris Medical,Autifony,Otologic,Otonomy,Audion Therapeutics and others:

http://journals.lww.com/thehearingj...g_Pours_in_for_Investigational_Hearing.1.aspx

 

[Nick J.]

Hi

Im new in here.
But have been reading everything Jakob (ATEOS) has postet in this and other threads and it really liftet me up from this depressing hole i found myself in, after a recent concert i went to and where my old tinnitus i could live with and had done so since i was a kid playing with fireworks, now became impossible to deal with.
It appeared 10 days after the concert full force with this high pitch metallic tone, followed up by some really high cricket noices once in a while, just to spice it up i guees.
I got panic attacks and heartburn and had suicide thoughts for about the first week after. Now its close to two month since the concert.
But then i remembered seeing something about lasers treating tinnitus like 20+ years ago and never thought more about it and also never heard more about it anywhere surpriceingly.
So i google it and found dr. Wilden right away.
But i was a bit skeptic and then searched some more and came by u guys and that convinced me about the LLLT.
So on the 8 of Okt. ill be going to ibiza for 10 treatments and then buy a home laser.
I guees ill have to go with wildens own laser to start with, since iv read alot had amazing results over time, even if its only red light.
That surprices me a bit, since iv read it only penetrate 2-3mm of skin, compared to infrared that should make more sense, since it penetrate several cm and thereby have an actual chance of reaching the inner ear? Hmmm

Anyway...ill give it a go and if its not working, ill follow in Jakob and Fernando's footstep and go for Stem cell.

Im really exitet to follow your improvement Fernando, so keep us postet whenever u feel there is something positive happening!
Hope u get great results in the near future.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi @NickJ.

I started with Dr Wilden, but If I was you would do an audigrame all the way to the 16Mhz.
If your problem is on the high frequencies, maybe you should consider going to Anne Arila clinic in Oslo.
The reason I say this is cause you will get a more powerfull treatment, and at a lower cost. Dr Wilden tretament is 200€ each and on Anne Arila is 120€ . Saving that money, you should consider then buying an Irradia Lazer as well in Oslo.
I´m almost sure Anne Arila uses one, so you will get advise how to use it.
For sure in the future you think you will need a more powerfull lazer, and realize that buyin the MLS was worth it but not for long.

Hope for the best
Fernando

 

[Nick J.]

Hi @NickJ.

I started with Dr Wilden, but If I was you would do an audigrame all the way to the 16Mhz.
If your problem is on the high frequencies, maybe you should consider going to Anne Arila clinic in Oslo.
The reason I say this is cause you will get a more powerfull treatment, and at a lower cost. Dr Wilden tretament is 200€ each and on Anne Arila is 120€ . Saving that money, you should consider then buying an Irradia Lazer as well in Oslo.
I´m almost sure Anne Arila uses one, so you will get advise how to use it.
For sure in the future you think you will need a more powerfull lazer, and realize that buyin the MLS was worth it but not for long.

Hope for the best
Fernando

Problem is i live in Malta at the moment and already booked hotel and flight to ibiza.
But i will be going back to Denmark in Dec. And then consider going to get more treatment at Anna if i can see this LLLT really works.
Then ill bring my mom, since she suffers a great deal from tinnitus also.
I did an 8Mhz audiogram a week ago and i know from what u guys are saying, that its not really worth much. But atleast its an indicater i guees.
I will try and post it for u to see. I dont really know how bad it is or if there is any hope of improvement.
Maybe some in here can give there thoughts on it.
It was done on a private hospital.
Will try and call the public hospital and hear if the can do 16Mhz, which i doubt.

Btw. I thought it was dr. Wilden who gave the most powerfull treatment??
That was the idea i got from reading on the forum and why i chose him.
But do u know what the price for a irradia laser will be??

The homelaser Wilden is selling that u call MLS, is this the one called "lux-spa-home-laser-by-dr-wilden"??
(I cant post links yet, so u might need to google it)
Not sure if this is a brand new kind of homelaser he is selling, or still just the old one everybody knows as MLS?

Iv read about this guy called Hansi that most in here probably also knows from his blog and he seems to have gotten amazing results with this MLS devise.
Anyway...audiogram below.
Sorry about my non stemcell post here. Will try and catch u in another thread maybe.

Thanks for your reply Fernando

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

HI @Nick J.
If treatment works for you, wicht I think will, your low frequencies will get better almost for sure.
Would be nice to see your improvements here as well, please try to use same audigrame place, so is better to make
future comparasation.

Yes, Lux spa Ibiza, is the new name for MLS I think.

Yes Ansy did use Mls in the beginning, after he went for more power treatments, with Dr Wilden and with Anne Arila.

Yes you will get a power treatment, Anne Arila is more powerfull, but maybe is better start at Dr Wilden.

Hope all goes well.

Concring, my cell tretament I will wait a little longer for a first post and update, still 3 weeks.

Fernando

 

[tomytl]

http://www.waisman.wisc.edu/seminars-2014-Oct17-Raphael.htm

From,one of the discoverers of the Atoh1 Therapy.