Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

[EDDTEKK]

Moderate Hearing Loss: Sorry.
Medications: Sorry.
Depression: Sorry.
Severe Tinnitus: Sorry.

Who is Lenire then designed for... for moderate and mild sufferers only?

I am curious about the exclusion criteria in Susan Shore's device...

 

[Don Tinny]

It seems that we will have to take care of our ears more than ever. I thought that only severe hearing loss cases were excluded.

 

[Striveon]

Moderate Hearing Loss: Sorry.
Medications: Sorry.
Depression: Sorry.
Severe Tinnitus: Sorry.

Who is Lenire then designed for... for moderate and mild sufferers only?

I am curious about the exclusion criteria in Susan Shore's device...

Clearly moderate hearing loss is excluded, Lenire is only for those tinnitus sufferers who have mild hearing loss

 

[Don Tinny]

Who is Lenire then designed for... for moderate and mild sufferers only?

...

Well... That's the big market. Most people have mild or moderate forms of tinnitus.

At least it's a step forward (trying to be optimistic).

 

[Chinmoku]

Moderate Hearing Loss: Sorry.
Medications: Sorry.
Depression: Sorry.
Severe Tinnitus: Sorry.

Who is Lenire then designed for... for moderate and mild sufferers only?

I am curious about the exclusion criteria in Susan Shore's device...

In the plots they showed people with THI around 80, so severe cases should be contemplated. Strange.

 

[Chinmoku]

@Nanny chocolate that's really a shame. They might have looked at an audiogram sent by email and spared you the trip.
It will come soon to the UK, though, and perhaps you'll get a second chance.

 

[Chinmoku]

I have a dip on the left ear starting from 6 kHz going up to 8 kHz. 40 dB at 8 kHz. Would that exclude me from getting Lenire? More and more confusing.

 

[UKBloke]

I've been to Neuromod and refused the device, gutted.

I have moderate high frequency hearing loss and took the audiogram with me. I had their test and have been refused on hearing loss grounds.

Nowhere in the questionnaire does it ask for details of hearing loss. Feeling tired and humiliated, still in Dublin and flying back tomorrow.

They are preparing for their launch in Germany, 2 dour Germans sat in but didn't engage with me!

Staff there are very nice but it's been a very expensive sense of failure.

Good luck to others.

Eve

@Nanny chocolate

Very sorry to hear this and I am also very surprised. I would have thought that details of hearing loss etc is all part of Application Process 101 for a device like Lenire, so the fact this fell through the cracks at your expense is really disappointing.

Did they offer any suggestions in terms of next steps that you might investigate?

 

[Cojackb]

Are those Koss headphones?

They're AKG K845.

I rate AKG - very good brand. Shame I can't use them for music anymore!

 

[JohnAdams]

I have moderate high frequency hearing loss and took the audiogram with me. I had their test and have been refused on hearing loss grounds.

Nowhere in the questionnaire does it ask for details of hearing loss. Feeling tired and humiliated, still in Dublin and flying back tomorrow.

Well, then that's bullshit and you deserve your money back, as does @GlennAz for his expensive trip to South Korea IMHO.

 

[Stefaniie]

I've been to Neuromod and refused the device, gutted.

I have moderate high frequency hearing loss and took the audiogram with me. I had their test and have been refused on hearing loss grounds.

Nowhere in the questionnaire does it ask for details of hearing loss. Feeling tired and humiliated, still in Dublin and flying back tomorrow.

They are preparing for their launch in Germany, 2 dour Germans sat in but didn't engage with me!

Staff there are very nice but it's been a very expensive sense of failure.

Good luck to others.

Eve

Very disappointing. Ross O' Neill made it sound like as long as you had some hearing you'd be able to use Lenire. Hopefully Susan Shore's device will be more lenient in that area.

 

[JayBowson]

Well, then that's bullshit and you deserve your money back

Why? It's a consultation to establish if a user is eligible for the device. You're paying for the consultation and that's exactly what @Nanny chocolate received.

It's regrettable that Neuromod decided that they didn't fit the criteria. But what's the alternative? Would you rather they snipped patients for the full €2500 if they knew beforehand the device wasn't likely to help?

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

Why? It's a consultation to establish if a user is eligible for the device. You're paying for the consultation and that's exactly what @Nanny chocolate received.

It's regrettable that Neuromod decided that they didn't fit the criteria. But what's the alternative? Would you rather they snipped patients for the full €2500 if they knew beforehand the device wasn't likely to help?

Good point but this condition is so bad it's probably safe to say most of us would try it even if we knew we only had a 10% chance of relief, as not trying it is a 0%.

 

[Stu1983]

I've been to Neuromod and refused the device, gutted.

I have moderate high frequency hearing loss and took the audiogram with me. I had their test and have been refused on hearing loss grounds.

Nowhere in the questionnaire does it ask for details of hearing loss. Feeling tired and humiliated, still in Dublin and flying back tomorrow.

They are preparing for their launch in Germany, 2 dour Germans sat in but didn't engage with me!

Staff there are very nice but it's been a very expensive sense of failure.

Good luck to others.

Eve

Hi @Nanny chocolate.

I'm sorry to hear they refused you. I have some pretty bad moderate + hearing loss. Can you please define for me what you mean by "I have moderate high frequency hearing loss"?

How bad is yours if you don't mind sharing? Can you please give some more specifics?

Love and respect,
Stu

 

[El BUZZ]

I think it could be very useful at this point to determine what moderate hearing loss is and what frequency range does Neuromod's audiogram cover. It's going to save us posts, time, expectations and even money.

So, answers anyone?

 

[PeteJ]

Why? It's a consultation to establish if a user is eligible for the device. You're paying for the consultation and that's exactly what @Nanny chocolate received.

It's regrettable that Neuromod decided that they didn't fit the criteria. But what's the alternative? Would you rather they snipped patients for the full €2500 if they knew beforehand the device wasn't likely to help?

If they go by the audiogram, the consult can be conducted online. Take a picture of it, attach it to an email message and there you go.

 

[spedgas]

Finally home with the device!

Firstly, it was awesome meeting you @Allan1967, gutted we didn't get a chance to sit down and have a proper chat so hoping one of our follow up assessments might overlap!

As for the experience, there really isn't much I can add to what Redknight has already provided in his extremely informative review.

The only thing I will say is I had two German consultants sat in on my assessment and device fitting (I had to provide consent). I did try to ask details about their presence but Lenire weren't able to provide any other information other than they're watching the consultations and seeing how the device is fitted, calibrated etc... training in other words.

Could be good news for anyone on mainland Europe, they're obviously working hard to get their treatment out there.

They give you the device and headset in boxes and a snazzy cardboard bag similar to the ones you get gifts in, just much larger. I ditched the bag in favour of my rucksack so for anyone travelling to get there, I suggest a relatively large bag to put them in.

View attachment 31104

I can provide more pictures if people are interested.

So jealous.

 

[Helheim]

This is making me a little worried. I'm on a shitload of meds that make my tinnitus go from catastrophic to moderate/severe on bad days - if I'm excluded based on that, well.

Actually now considering lying at the first appointment.

 

[Fabrikat]

If they go by the audiogram, the consult can be conducted online. Take a picture of it, attach it to an email message and there you go.

That's right! That's why @Nanny chocolate deserves a refund. They could have told her at the outset, before any consultation needed to take place, by checking her audiogram, whether Lenire could help her. And they would have saved her the money, inconvenience and stress.

Lucrative and just a bit exploitative in my view.

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

@Nanny chocolate would it be possible for you to share your audiogram so we might have an idea of what could disqualify us?

 

[Jack Straw]

Good point but this condition is so bad it's probably safe to say most of us would try it even if we knew we only had a 10% chance of relief, as not trying it is a 0%.

I would pay $3,000 for a 10% chance for reduction.

 

[Stefaniie]

I sent Neuromod an email inquiring how much hearing is needed for Lenire. I also asked if my mild/moderate low frequency hearing loss would exclude me. I have some normal hearing in the high frequencies.

I wonder if they're simply excluding moderate hearing loss at this point for business reasons. "Only accept the ones who we know will have the most positive results so we can get more positive reviews and expand our business more easily." Something like that? Purely speculation since I know nothing about business lol.

 

[Allan1967]

Finally home with the device!

Firstly, it was awesome meeting you @Allan1967, gutted we didn't get a chance to sit down and have a proper chat so hoping one of our follow up assessments might overlap!

As for the experience, there really isn't much I can add to what Redknight has already provided in his extremely informative review.

The only thing I will say is I had two German consultants sat in on my assessment and device fitting (I had to provide consent). I did try to ask details about their presence but Lenire weren't able to provide any other information other than they're watching the consultations and seeing how the device is fitted, calibrated etc... training in other words.

Could be good news for anyone on mainland Europe, they're obviously working hard to get their treatment out there.

They give you the device and headset in boxes and a snazzy cardboard bag similar to the ones you get gifts in, just much larger. I ditched the bag in favour of my rucksack so for anyone travelling to get there, I suggest a relatively large bag to put them in.

View attachment 31104

I can provide more pictures if people are interested.

You too @Cojackb!

I'll post later folks. I'm fried at the minute... 2am drive to Leeds, flight x2 and drive back. Hot sweaty day, mobbed airports. Dangerous walk along carriageway to get a bus.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

That's right! That's why @Nanny chocolate deserves a refund. They could have told her at the outset, before any consultation needed to take place, by checking her audiogram, whether Lenire could help her. And they would have saved her the money, inconvenience and stress.

Lucrative and just a bit exploitative in my view.

This 4 visit nonsense needs to be streamlined if people are traveling to get the device.

 

[Striveon]

People with moderate hearing loss can still hear the tones coming from the headphones. Why aren't we allowed to try Lenire?

What about using hearing aids beneath the headphones?

Or what about cranking the volume a bit up, not like it's going to be loud, anyways, that's where we hear the volume so it's like hearing it low?

Any other suggestions on how we can be allowed to get benefit from this device?

This is so depressing I've been crying. I hate this so much!

 

[Sam Bridge]

I thought in the Q&A they said hearing aid users could get the treatment? As long as it's not profound hearing loss??

Many people with tinnitus will have a mild/moderate dip at around 3-4 kHz so does this mean we are screwed?

Or maybe in the initial launch they only want the best candidates in order to get good publicity?

 

[Mathieulh]

They're AKG K845.

I rate AKG - very good brand. Shame I can't use them for music anymore!

To be honest, AKG makes all types of headphones, from very bad/overpriced junk, to very good quality ones, although it wouldn't have been my first choice for expensive headphones, when I was still using those, in my pre-tinnitus, days, I mean, any Stax electrostats, even entry levels pretty much bury every headphones out there, AKG included, and if you need close back headphones, the Sony MDR-Z1R do that.

I don't know the exact model Neuromod uses, but I doubt they would go with €500+ worth of headphones for a device+treatment worth €2000, especially not when high fidelity music isn't required.

To be honest, I don't care much about what headphones they use, so long as they are comfortable and the treatment works.

 

[Mathieulh]

If they go by the audiogram, the consult can be conducted online. Take a picture of it, attach it to an email message and there you go.

I think they also assess your state of mind, which is probably their most important factor, if you are likely to take your own life should the treatment fail, they aren't going to take the risk of having you as a patient, mostly for liability issues.

 

[Martin69]

@Nanny chocolate

I have good hearing up to 8 kHz. Then it goes down.

Can hardly hear high-pitched external sounds. Cricket sounds for masking have to be louder than usual.

I would assume that many people at my age (50) or older have that hearing drop - but don't know since most hearing tests go only up to 8 kHz (mine was up to 10 kHz).

And hair cells for high-pitched sounds are the first ones that are lost (aging, loud concerts etc.).
Hence, if this is an exclusion criteria, I am really curious...

Also I remember someone described here that the audiologist asked them when the white noise covers their tinnitus.
Of course if they turn up the volume to 100 dB and you either still don't hear the white noise (being deaf) or it is too loud, the device would make no sense for you.

But overall, it makes no sense to me being excluded if you have hearing loss in high frequencies.


Also note that the tinnitus sound is mostly on the frequencies you have hearing loss

 

[acute]

Could those who have already visited Neuromod answer the question below?

What frequency range does Neuromod's audiogram cover?

Is it up to 8 kHz like the average audiograms or do they test higher frequencies?

Sorry if this question has been answered before.

@Allan1967 @Cojackb @Redknight @drcross