Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

[jmasterj]

As far as I know, the tinnitus frequency is not important due to the working mechanism of the treatment. It works on calming a specific kind of cells in your brain. These cells are called fusiform cells and are located in the dorsal cochlear nucleus. The first part of the brain where the nerves from the cochlear are processed. It is located in a part of the brain called Metencephalon. The Metencephalon is also a station of the Trigeminal nerve, a big nerve that innervates a lot of nerves from you face, also that of the tongue. The treatment wants to induce long therm depression in these fusiform cells by sending weak electronic impulses and sounds in a specific timing.

Dr. Susan Shore's device works in a very similar way, she might send the electronic impulses into different nerves, but the target station is the same. And I think the tongue is a quite good "entrance point".

The software seems to be much more important, the sound with the perfect timing etc...

Neuromod just wants to make sure you hear enough.

And also in Susan Shore's current trial you can't have more than 55 dB loss in the tinnitus frequencies. I am not sure what exactly the tinnitus frequencies mean, but she has a limit on hearing loss as well, at least, in her trial.

 

[JohnAdams]

I am not sure what exactly the tinnitus frequencies mean

For example: If your tinnitus pitch is 5 kHz, then at that frequency in your audiogram you cannot have more than 55 db loss.

 

[Bartoli]

And also in Susan Shore's current trial you can't have more than 55 dB loss in the tinnitus frequencies. I am not sure what exactly the tinnitus frequencies mean, but she has a limit on hearing loss as well, at least, in her trial.

I really can't wrap my head around the fact that two iterations of a device that are based on the same principle of action have these contradictions:

Tinnitus frequency matters vs. it doesn't matter.
Electrical stimulation site matters vs. stimulation given just via the tongue.

Surely no two can be right about the same thing? And if Dr. Shore is convinced these are important, how will Neuromod's results fare, given that she's one of the peer reviewers?

 

[Eric N]

Can anybody explain to me how the Minimum Masking Level works? Are they only able to mask with standard tones in an audiogram? Or are they just using white noise?

A lot of my tinnitus tones are non-standard audiogram tones e.g 1100 Hz 1900 Hz.

 

[pinklights98]

Can anybody explain to me how the Minimum Masking Level works? Are they only able to mask with standard tones in an audiogram? Or are they just using white noise?

A lot of my tinnitus tones are non-standard audiogram tones e.g 1100 Hz 1900 Hz.

They just use white noise, I don't believe Neuromod tests to see what frequency your tinnitus is at.

 

[JohnAdams]

And if Dr. Shore is convinced these are important, how will Neuromod's results fare, given that she's one of the peer reviewers?

I think if there are positive results then the methods will have to be further studied.

 

[BigNick]

May I ask what kind of mental health questions they asked?

It would be important for me to know to be prepared for my appointment.

They never asked me any questions like that and I've been there 4 times.

The appointments are very quick. I did a THI, had my hearing test and she said 'ok you're a candidate'

Don't worry.

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

I really can't wrap my head around the fact that two iterations of a device that are based on the same principle of action have these contradictions:

Tinnitus frequency matters vs. it doesn't matter.
Electrical stimulation site matters vs. stimulation given just via the tongue.

Surely no two can be right about the same thing? And if Dr. Shore is convinced these are important, how will Neuromod's results fare, given that she's one of the peer reviewers?

I believe Dr. Hubert Lim of the University of Minnesota found the tongue to be the best approach too. @kelpiemsp was part of that study and it lowered his to the point it was no longer a bother.

 

[all to gain]

They never asked me any questions like that and I've been there 4 times.

The appointments are very quick. I did a THI, had my hearing test and she said 'ok you're a candidate'

Don't worry.

What did you score on the THI? Was it the same as the form you had to fill in online to get the appointment?

 

[Lurius]

They never asked me any questions like that and I've been there 4 times.

The appointments are very quick. I did a THI, had my hearing test and she said 'ok you're a candidate'

Don't worry.

I'm really happy to hear this from you, Big Nick. It really calms my nerves and helps me relax before I'm going there myself. But @jmasterj says I will be asked mental health questions. Is he lying? It's like your word against his, so I'm not quite sure what to believe. Is it possible they only ask mental health questions from some of us and not everyone? Or maybe they had a policy of asking mental health questions when jmasterj went in, but they changed it later on? Just my suggestions. I'm very puzzled by the fact that jmasterj insists that mental health questions will be asked, and you say they won't, or at least, that you have not been asked any.

I will rest easy for now, but I'm prepared should I suddenly get jumped by mental health questions.

 

[BigNick]

I'm really happy to hear this from you, Big Nick. It really calms my nerves and helps me relax before I'm going there myself. But @jmasterj says I will be asked mental health questions. Is he lying? It's like your word against his, so I'm not quite sure what to believe. Is it possible they only ask mental health questions from some of us and not everyone? Or maybe they had a policy of asking mental health questions when jmasterj went in, but they changed it later on? Just my suggestions. I'm very puzzled by the fact that jmasterj insists that mental health questions will be asked, and you say they won't, or at least, that you have not been asked any.

I will rest easy for now, but I'm prepared should I suddenly get jumped by mental health questions.

All I can tell you is my own experience, like I said, I wasn't asked a single face to face question regarding mental health or medication during the consultation.

 

[jmasterj]

I'm really happy to hear this from you, Big Nick. It really calms my nerves and helps me relax before I'm going there myself. But @jmasterj says I will be asked mental health questions. Is he lying? It's like your word against his, so I'm not quite sure what to believe. Is it possible they only ask mental health questions from some of us and not everyone? Or maybe they had a policy of asking mental health questions when jmasterj went in, but they changed it later on? Just my suggestions. I'm very puzzled by the fact that jmasterj insists that mental health questions will be asked, and you say they won't, or at least, that you have not been asked any.

I will rest easy for now, but I'm prepared should I suddenly get jumped by mental health questions.

Lurius - Honestly, don't worry about it. I was not trying to scare you. I just want to prepare you. I will say that I had their new audiologist at my appointment, so @BigNick's experience could have differed from mine. I was asked about stress and anxiety in my life and if I took drugs for that or sought out counseling, which I certainly did in the beginning since I had a very hard time coping. I believe it was more about ruling out other factors for causing the tinnitus. I was certainly told that there is a possibility this will not work and how I felt about that.

Just don't go in there saying this is my only hope and this has to work and things along those lines and you will be fine. You will do fine in the assessment and I truly hope this will give you the relief you deserve.

 

[Eric N]

How long is the time between the assessment and getting the device on average, does anybody know? If it is around 1 month I might get an AirBnb instead of having to travel from Canada twice.

 

[winstona]

How long is the time between the assessment and getting the device on average, does anybody know? If it is around 1 month I might get an AirBnb instead of having to travel from Canada twice.

I asked them this same question when I replied to their appointment confirmation email. They told me it's 2-4 weeks.

 

[AfroSnowman]

I asked them this same question when I replied to their appointment confirmation email. They told me it's 2-4 weeks.

They told me 0-2 weeks.

 

[pinklights98]

They told me 0-2 weeks.

The wait time is currently 4-6 weeks.

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

Mixed information ahoy.

 

[pinklights98]

Mixed information ahoy.

Currently, Neuromod shares the clinic they are using which is why they are only operating two days a week. They are hopeful that sometime in January they will be able to open their clinic and thereby offer appointments everyday, which will significantly decrease the wait time between assessment and device fitting. The 4-6 week timeline is based off an email I received in the beginning of December, so it can very well be old news as Neuromod prepares for their transition.

 

[Ruse]

Currently, Neuromod shares the clinic they are using which is why they are only operating two days a week. They are hopeful that sometime in January they will be able to open their clinic and thereby offer appointments everyday, which will significantly decrease the wait time between assessment and device fitting. The 4-6 week timeline is based off an email I received in the beginning of December, so it can very well be old news as Neuromod prepares for their transition.

I think they have now expanded the clinic beyond two days per week, I noticed when people were mentioning their appointment dates for 2020!

 

[TheDanishGirl]

I don't have the patience to follow this thread...

But I would like to know if anybody with pain hyperacusis has tried Lenire?

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

I'm really happy to hear this from you, Big Nick. It really calms my nerves and helps me relax before I'm going there myself. But @jmasterj says I will be asked mental health questions. Is he lying? It's like your word against his, so I'm not quite sure what to believe. Is it possible they only ask mental health questions from some of us and not everyone? Or maybe they had a policy of asking mental health questions when jmasterj went in, but they changed it later on? Just my suggestions. I'm very puzzled by the fact that jmasterj insists that mental health questions will be asked, and you say they won't, or at least, that you have not been asked any.

I will rest easy for now, but I'm prepared should I suddenly get jumped by mental health questions.

hans799 also reported being asked questions about mental health as part of the screening process.

Meniere's disease also appears to be an exclusion criteria.

 

[all to gain]

Lurius - Honestly, don't worry about it. I was not trying to scare you. I just want to prepare you. I will say that I had their new audiologist at my appointment, so @BigNick's experience could have differed from mine. I was asked about stress and anxiety in my life and if I took drugs for that or sought out counseling, which I certainly did in the beginning since I had a very hard time coping. I believe it was more about ruling out other factors for causing the tinnitus. I was certainly told that there is a possibility this will not work and how I felt about that.

Just don't go in there saying this is my only hope and this has to work and things along those lines and you will be fine. You will do fine in the assessment and I truly hope this will give you the relief you deserve.

So did you actually tell them that you had taken drugs and had sought counselling? What did you tell them about your stress and anxiety levels? Really not sure what to tell them when they ask me. Did you take antidepressants?

 

[jmasterj]

So did you actually tell them that you had taken drugs and had sought counselling? What did you tell them about your stress and anxiety levels? Really not sure what to tell them when they ask me. Did you take antidepressants?

I was honest and did tell them everything. I took antidepressants, but I had been off of them for almost a year before my assessment appointment. I did say I still have stress and anxiety mostly related to tinnitus, but they didn't deny me for that reason. They more pushed possibly using hearing aids since I have 40 dB loss at 8000 Hz. My tinnitus is way higher than 8000 Hz, so I just stated they really wouldn't help me much.

 

[all to gain]

I was honest and did tell them everything. I took antidepressants, but I had been off of them for almost a year before my assessment appointment. I did say I still have stress and anxiety mostly related to tinnitus, but they didn't deny me for that reason. They more pushed possibly using hearing aids since I have 40 dB loss at 8000 Hz. My tinnitus is way higher than 8000 Hz, so I just stated they really wouldn't help me much.

I'm still on antidepressants and am worried they will deny me because of that and because I've hit rock bottom since getting tinnitus; stress and despair through the roof. Sure that wouldn't go down too well with them.

All the same, I'm not putting all my hopes on Lenire, but it's a chance that has to be taken.

 

[jmasterj]

I'm still on antidepressants and am worried they will deny me because of that and because I've hit rock bottom since getting tinnitus; stress and despair through the roof. Sure that wouldn't go down too well with them.

All the same, I'm not putting all my hopes on Lenire, but it's a chance that has to be taken.

If you are worried I wouldn't tell them. They don't ask for your medical records or anything. My only concern would be if that they found certain drugs during the trial that would inhibit the treatment and you wouldn't get the full result from it.

Did you put any drugs in the pre-assessment questionnaire you filled out online? If you did and they didn't say anything you are fine. Regardless, I would keep pushing forward and not worry about it. I am sure you will get accepted. Thus far I have only read of people being rejected due to too much hearing loss.

 

[Mentos]

The wait time is currently 4-6 weeks.

I waited 8 weeks.

 

[all to gain]

If you are worried I wouldn't tell them. They don't ask for your medical records or anything. My only concern would be if that they found certain drugs during the trial that would inhibit the treatment and you wouldn't get the full result from it.

Did you put any drugs in the pre-assessment questionnaire you filled out online? If you did and they didn't say anything you are fine. Regardless, I would keep pushing forward and not worry about it. I am sure you will get accepted. Thus far I have only read of people being rejected due to too much hearing loss.

Can't remember to be honest. Seems like such a long time ago. Whatever, no one has said anything to me. All seems to be taking a long time though. Haven't got an appointment date yet; will chase them up after the NY.

Unless a person has mild tinnitus, I think it's almost impossible not to be stressed with this demon, at least in the early stages anyway.

 

[F-u-T]

I don't have the patience to follow this thread...

But I would like to know if anybody with pain hyperacusis has tried Lenire?

I have pain hyperacusis and will be trying the device. My initial appointment is end of March.

 

[alanisnotadj]

I don't have the patience to follow this thread...

But I would like to know if anybody with pain hyperacusis has tried Lenire?

I have what you could probably describe as pain hyperacusis in my left ear and I am currently using Lenire. My left is certainly sensitive to certain noises and is sometimes painful for no particular reason. I have had a sessions where my left ear felt uncomfortable but the pain usually went away after a little while. I will soon report on Lenire User Experiences & Reviews thread.

 

[TheDanishGirl]

I have pain hyperacusis and will be trying the device. My initial appointment is end of March.

I have what you could probably describe as pain hyperacusis in my left ear and I am currently using Lenire. My left is certainly sensitive to certain noises and is sometimes painful for no particular reason. I have had a sessions where my left ear felt uncomfortable but the pain usually went away after a little while. I will soon report on Lenire User Experiences & Reviews thread.

Thank you both! I look forward to hearing about your experience with it, and if it affects hyperacusis in a bad way. Hopefully it doesn't affect it in a negative way.