Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

[F-u-T]

I'm hoping COVID-19 ending (for those who are vaccinated) causes Susan Shore to stop using it as an excuse and execute so we can see whether that (like Lenire) is fool's gold or not.

Why would COVID-19 end for those who are vaccinated?

Hate to break it to ya but COVID-19 is never going to disappear. Vaxxed or unvaxxed.

Wait till the new strain comes out that is resistant to the current vaccines. Then we are back at square one.

 

[Gb3]

Is "close" defined... in years, or in decades... centuries?

Their presentation said "nearly market ready" so I assume a year or so but think what you want.

 

[GlennS]

Did you not see the latest news as to Dr. Shore's device?

Thank you for that. I will get caught up over there.

 

[MRItechssuck]

Their presentation said "nearly market ready" so I assume a year or so but think what you want.

My frustration was not directed at you... just the 24/7 hissing.

I didn't see that, and the information on that link sounds promising.

Thanks!

 

[Gb3]

My frustration was not directed at you... just the 24/7 hissing.

I didn't see that, and the information on that link sounds promising.

Thanks!

I get it man! We are all frustrated! No worries.

 

[Gb3]

I read over a lot of the user reviews. It seemed like a lot of people experienced improvement with Lenire. Why is it getting a bad rap?

 

[Paul1980]

I read over a lot of the user reviews. It seemed like a lot of people experienced improvement with Lenire. Why is it getting a bad rap?

I suggest you reread the reviews and this thread because it has already been hashed and rehashed umpteen times.

 

[Gb3]

I suggest you reread the reviews and this thread because it has already been hashed and rehashed umpteen times.

Thanks pal.

 

[Bambam0]

Looks like they're ramping up for US release. Just posted 4 new video reviews 5 days ago.

 

[Toby1972]

I read over a lot of the user reviews. It seemed like a lot of people experienced improvement with Lenire. Why is it getting a bad rap?

LOL. "A lot of people?" Nearly no one in this forum. And please do not trust the fake testimonials on YouTube.

Lenire is nothing more than a kind of iPod that plays random noises (noise, piano, synthesizer, etc.) and emits minimal electric shocks via the tongue tip. Nothing scientific. You can assemble it yourself for a few bugs.
It only works for very few because, with the high price of €2,700 euros, they firmly believe that it must also help. Faith moves mountains here.

It's good that I was able to settle my loan fee for the device straight away through Valneva intraday profits.

If Neuromod were on the stock exchange, you could take good profits in the beginning, thanks to the forecasts and good marketing, then the price would certainly only move downhill at some point. Eventually word gets around that the device is just junk.

 

[Mathew Gould]

Looks like they're ramping up for US release. Just posted 4 new video reviews 5 days ago.

Why? It basically doesn't work.

 

[Toby1972]

Hmm. I checked the videos. There is no "Atlantis Knupkis" anywhere on the internet. Why is he faking his name?

 

[Gb3]

@Toby1972, you had to take a loan out?

 

[EDDTEKK]

Lenire will fade away in time. I am pretty sure.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To EDDTEKK and Toby1972:
How observantly right you both are.

This is so reminiscent of my unfortunate experience with Desyncra, once touted as the breakthrough treatment that had finally arrived.

After I spent $5,267.00 and dutifully followed their instructions for wearing their headset 5 hours a day for 36 weeks, (12/16 to 08/17), I e-mailed them with the report that it had as much effect on my tinnitus as shining a flashlight on my head would have had.

Nothing scientific. You can assemble it yourself for a few bugs.
It only works for very few because, with the high price of €2,700 euros, they firmly believe that it must also help. Faith moves mountains here.

If Neuromod were on the stock exchange, you could take good profits in the beginning, thanks to the forecasts and good marketing, then the price would certainly only move downhill at some point. Eventually word gets around that the device is just junk.

This was precisely how I came to regard Desyncra; and Lo and Behold, they have been out of business for some time now.

And, quite perspicacious regarding the mistaken belief that something so expensive must yield results.

This reminds me of how, during the Russian encirclement at Stalingrad, the German soldier would say, "The Fuhrer must know what he is doing."

What's the difference between a stubborn case of tinnitus and Lenire?

The Lenire will fade away in time.

 

[UHPTS]

Guess what. We have a first Lenire superresponder! Her name is Karen, she loves eye make up and got €2,700 to throw at Neuromod. Or maybe she got monthly installments, I don't know.

Really lovely video! Wouldn't be able to make it better. Countryside, children, apples and bit of drama with happy ending.



...although I suspect what really helped her is that magnetic bracelet she wears.

 

[UHPTS]

Problem with tinnitus solved! Just go to Neuromod, get assesed and they will tailor plan that takes into account your specific needs! What a bunch of macaroni.



I wonder if the girl with big headset (why is she even wearing that?) is their tinnitus/hearing specialist? I wouldn't wonder if she was.

 

[Tanni]

I wonder if the girl with big headset (why is she even wearing that?) is their tinnitus/hearing specialist? I wouldn't wonder if she was.

Yes, the woman with the headset is their Clinical Audiologist. Is there a reason why you assumed she couldn't be?

 

[UHPTS]

Yes, the woman with the headset is their Clinical Audiologist. Is there a reason why you assumed she couldn't be?

She looks like 20.

 

[Bambam0]

Why? It basically doesn't work.

Did the study Tinnitus Talk ran not produce these results? Those are worthwhile odds to me.

In the Tinnitus Talk study, we measured outcomes in two ways.

Method 1 - We asked people to provide a subjective rating of their tinnitus (Borderline, Mild, Moderate, Severe, Substantial) at baseline, 6 weeks and 12 weeks. We then compared the rating between baseline and 12 weeks.

Using this method:

15 improved, 13 did not change and 2 got worse.

 

[EDDTEKK]

Just noticed there are now several new Lenire testimonials on YouTube. Very fancy stuff...

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To UHPTS:
Thanks very much for uploading this.

From the Lady: "My tinnitus is at a level where I just don't hear it."

What in f**k's name is that supposed to mean? If she can still recognize that her tinnitus is still present, then how can it not be heard?

Notice that she will not actually commit herself to saying that it is gone.

From the Older Gentleman:

(After the full treatment) "I noticed that there was kind of a difference."

Same uselessly vague commentary, indicating no more than a placebo effect.

If my ENT / Audiology Group actually endorses this (especially since it will be over $3,000.00), it will lower my trust and regard for them, and I will let them know it.

 

[Paul1980]

I have been following this thread since before it was called Lenire. Message 1 at the beginning of this entire thread is a comprehensive write-up about the results of the Tinnitus Talk user-led study, and links and discussion to the company-led studies. Some people chipped in a lot of money and time to do that.

My view is there has also been a lot of disappointment, and we are reminded of that again and again because those people are still here looking for a cure, and they spent good money. We are also reminded there is one person who had a terrible worsening, but then again we have a lot of people that saw some improvement.

There are a lot of people who just dont believe that neuromodulation will work to begin with, and those people are always reminding those of us who think it could.

People were expecting this to be a surefire cure. Instead it seems to be an alleviation. Many people say it changed the intensity of the noise, but maybe not volume, thus providing relief. I saw an interview with a German audiologist, and he claimed that 50% of his patients benefited. IDK how many he saw or what his measure of success is. As post #1 states, "the jury is still out." For me, if it comes to the US, I will probably try it.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To Paul1980:

How is it that the intensity of the noise can be changed without a decrease in volume?

Does the nature of the noise become less unpleasant even though the volume is still at it's usual level?

What is the difference between a sure-fire cure and an alleviation?

How is it that this audiologist did not elaborate on what his measure of success was?

No American Health Insurance Carrier or Medicare will cover any portion of this cost (which will be over $3,000.00). Precisely what am I getting for such a financial outlay?

 

[GlennS]

Did the study Tinnitus Talk ran not produce these results? Those are worthwhile odds to me.

Here we go again. Tinnitus Talk's conclusions were, IMHO, misleadingly positive. I know Tinnitus Talk vehemently denies this but your comment is why it very much is.

 

[GlennS]

Just noticed there are now several new Lenire testimonials on YouTube. Very fancy stuff...

I would expect that. I would also expect that as the product has ramped up that odds are you will genuinely have some lucky responders. This anecdotal evidence would not be enough to build confidence in anybody's individual odds, though.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

Very insightful, GlennS: This, as far as I know, is the only condition where so-called Medical Experts expect us to regard purely anecdotal, placebo inspired comments as legitimate as clinically tested data that demonstrates regular, uniform, anatomical/biochemical alterations (with therefore a far greater success rate).
Their presentations are in no wise different from the tactics employed by snake oil salesmen in the 19th Century.
This is reminiscent of how I felt ashamed of myself for having so wanted to believe that Desyncra would yield results that I temporarily acted as a shill in their behalf.

 

[linearb]

I would expect that. I would also expect that as the product has ramped up that odds are you will genuinely have some lucky responders. This anecdotal evidence would not be enough to build confidence in anybody's individual odds, though.

Yeah, count me as one hundred percent skeptical on this until I see actual peer reviewed data that passes bluster to clear the FDA hurdles, and even then I will be poring over their data, reading all the conflict of interest disclosures, and also looking at their CIs, actual objective decibel changes in tinnitus, etc.

UMich did all that, using normal research dollars, and they have published all of it, in tabular form and as raw data. Lenire, to the best of my knowledge, did all their own research using venture capitalist money, have only published their own aggregations of their data sets in graphical form. Also, they have very notably hired a US COO, CFO and Director Of Sales, despite not having FDA approval yet.

Who knows what the outcome of either device is, should both hit mass market, but the path Lenire is following is just some tech bro bullshit, and that is coming from a tech bro who has worked in the VC-backed world for much longer than I intended to.

I don't think we'll have "lucky" responders, though. Either the device (either of them) is at least somewhat effective such that objective tinnitus measurement along with self-rated noise and distress is meaningfully reduced for some users in a way which is easily differentiable from placebo, and the device works -- or, the rate at which people report "improvement" is identical to the placebo groups, in which case, the device is an expensive potato.

In the case of UMich they have published fairly equivocal data showing that real treatment is substantially effective on a significant number of people with somatically modulatable tinnitus, and also that some people did not respond at all. Again, as far as I know, Lenire has really only published very very pretty colored graphs and charts which they say reflect the research they did. That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence from me, nor do the trip reports from people on here who have used Lenire.

It's a much smaller group of us (I think only 3?) who have used the US research-based bimodal devices, but I believe we all responded pretty strongly? In my case there's really no question I responded, the hard data showing an objective volume decrease in my tinnitus during treatment as measured by a double blind RCT, has been published. I have it as a PDF on my hard drive! (I also know what my patient code was, so I can unblind myself now

Here we go again. Tinnitus Talk's conclusions were, IMHO, misleadingly positive. I know Tinnitus Talk vehemently denies this but your comment is why it very much is.

I 100% agree with you. The results shown at best were not nearly as good as what UMich's peer reviewed data shows, even if they were completely accurate and reflected an RCT, which they don't. (UMich had an average reduction of around 50% in objectively matched tinnitus volume, 6-10 dB).

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To linearb:

Thanks very much for this dissection of Lenire's patent inadequacies; their methods and presentation are so distressingly similar to what I encountered when I was bamboozled into dropping $5,269.00 on Desyncra.

When I was finished, the Audiologist who set me up with Desyncra admitted that she had only sold nine of these (in the third largest city in the US) during the last year.

Lenire is undermined by so many caveats, admitted limitations, unsatisfactory documentation, tepid-at-best testimonials, etc. that I would challenge any consultant (especially at a cost exceeding $3,000.00) to formulate a persuasive marketing campaign.

 

[Jack Straw]

To linearb:

Thanks very much for this dissection of Lenire's patent inadequacies; their methods and presentation are so distressingly similar to what I encountered when I was bamboozled into dropping $5,269.00 on Desyncra.

When I was finished, the Audiologist who set me up with Desyncra admitted that she had only sold nine of these (in the third largest city in the US) during the last year.

Lenire is undermined by so many caveats, admitted limitations, unsatisfactory documentation, tepid-at-best testimonials, etc. that I would challenge any consultant (especially at a cost exceeding $3,000.00) to formulate a persuasive marketing campaign.

Dave, where did you see it in the US? I can't find it anywhere near me.