Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

#932
SignalExec said:
In their data, 40% of people had a decrease in THI less than 15 points.
To me, these results seem not a good base to go and charge people 4000 euro. Especially if those people are the most desperate among us. I don't want to discourage people, but I think it best to look at the data and try to be objective and evaluate the expected results before forking over 4000 euro.
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To be fair, Neuromod haven't exactly buried this info. They've been saying all along that a large percentage of trial participants experienced 'clinically significant' improvement / reduction / benefits from the device. Their study paper defines 'clinically significant' as a THI reduction of 7 points or more.

To my mind, 7 points is jack all, but they have been relatively open as to what they're reporting / claiming. I'd be......slightly disappointed let's say, if I spent 4 grand and my THI score went down by 7. If it went down by 'or more' that might be more palatable. 20 points would do for me thanks, to get me back down to moderate tinnitus.
 
#934
Mentos said:
My THI score today is 46 points (moderate impact), assuming 20 points reduction it would bring me down to 26 points which is mild impact.
My MML is around 15dB. I'm not an enthusiast of measuring THI since the fact that I can function on a daily basis (work, household), and THI does not reflect the emotional impact tinnitus has on me.
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Hi Mentos,

Either I've misunderstood your post or you've got your figures wrong.

If the numbers you've quoted are correct, why the flip are you on this site?? If your tinnitus can be masked by 15 dB of noise, which is about the noise level caused by me pressing these keys, then surely you can't hear it in day to day life?
 
#936
JohnSV said:
If Lenire works even just a little bit, we're going to be hit with a tsunami of reverse engineered products.

Timing of electrical stimulation of the tongue with tailored white noise is not rocket science.

We've got the smartphones, and the headsets already. What's needed is the app and the electric tongue stimulation device. Probably based on Meadow, Raspberry or the like.

The point is this. If Lenire is even slightly effective, the time window in which they will be able to charge €4000 is going to be short. Regardless of patents, trademarks and other barriers they try to enforce.
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Don't these companies have patents? How could others reverse engineer it?
 
#937
PureNoise said:
Hi Mentos,

Either I've misunderstood your post or you've got your figures wrong.

If the numbers you've quoted are correct, why the flip are you on this site?? If your tinnitus can be masked by 15 dB of noise, which is about the noise level caused by me pressing these keys, then surely you can't hear it in day to day life?
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Unfortunately I can hear it quite often during the day, also while watching TV. In fact rain sound of 15 dB does mask it, but sometimes even with 30 dB background noise I can still hear my tinnitus. Rain is broadband and masks well, other sounds of 15 dB for sure do not mask it so even 15 dB tinnitus can be a burden. I lost my managerial position at work due to mild tinnitus because I could not concentrate well enough and I could not fully use my intellectual potential. That's why even though my tinnitus is mild from MML perspective it had moderate impact on my life as per THI.
 
#938
NoBigDeal said:
I couldn't find any information about the price, where do these educated guesses come from?
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They were charging €3500 for it 4 years ago, so they're not going to do another 4 years worth of testing and investing to sell it for less than they were originally. I'm clinging to the fantasy that they might do, but it's extremely unlikely.

If they have a sense of humour, they could sell it for £3999 to test AnnV's resolve.
 
#940
Based on that LinkedIn post by the London Tinnitus Clinic, we should see a release in Ireland and London this summer?

So probably July or August I'm guessing. They wouldn't post that on Twitter (post is a few pages back) talking about 11 locations in London and even more in other places this summer if it wasn't for real.
 
#941
TheDanishGirl said:
But what if it got worse? Mild tinnitus without the possibility of it getting worse, would also have zero impact on my life at this point, but mild tinnitus with the possibility of it getting worse, would still have a big impact on my life. If there is always the possibility of it getting worse, then there are many things in my life that I can't do.
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I'm just hoping that if it works, then we can use it again as needed???
 
#942
OnceUponaTime said:
I'm just hoping that if it works, then we can use it again as needed???
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Yeah. If nothing else, I have a small hope that maybe this device could prevent my tinnitus from getting permanently worse, as in, if my tinnitus got louder I could use it to bring my tinnitus back down, to what it is now.
 
#944
acute said:
Did Neuromonics do anything for you or was it a complete fraud and a waste of money?

Neuromonics follows the same principle as Neuromod? It was bimodal stimulation?
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Neuromonics gave me a dramatic placebo effect for about two weeks -- My tinnitus was quieter, my ears felt more robust and far less vulnerable. I felt almost cured. Then I woke up one Sunday morning and it all went away. My tinnitus was back in full force, my hyperacusis had returned. I was utterly heartbroken.

If we could harness our own placebo effect, we wouldn't need any other kind of treatment. We could cure ourselves. I still can't explain it.

After that, Neuromonics didn't help me much. I kept using it faithfully for a long time after that. I habituated after using it for about two years. But I think I would have habituated on my own.

And Neuromonics has a similar name to the company that makes the Lenire treatment, but they could not be more different. Lenire will be the first commercially available treatment that attenuates tinnitus. Bi-modal stimulation is a major step forward.
 
#945
Skinjob said:
Lenire will be the first commercially available treatment that attenuates tinnitus. Bi-modal stimulation is a major step forward.
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I sound like a Lenire True Believer in my previous post. Yes, I am impressed by bimodal stimulation and think it is the best hope tinnitus sufferers have at the moment. But I may be wrong. Maybe @kelpiemsp's and @Clare B's recoveries were flukes. I admit I'm putting all of my eggs in one bimodal basket.

If I am wrong about Lenire in particular and bimodal stimulation in general, then I will admit being wrong publicly, on this forum. But I'm not posting any pics of any of my body parts. It is bad enough that people on this forum suffer from tinnitus; I don't want to make anybody blind on top of it.
 
#946
PureNoise said:
Based on that LinkedIn post by the London Tinnitus Clinic,
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It's disappointing that this organisation is involved once again with a new tinnitus treatment.

They've been happy to charge diabolical fees for a treatment such as ACRN, which did so little for so many, for years.

And here they are once again. Rest assured, if they're involved, they will happily drain the wallets of any desperate sufferers that walk in their door.

Now I know it will cost, big time!
 
#947
Skinjob said:
I sound like a Lenire True Believer in my previous post. Yes, I am impressed by bimodal stimulation and think it is the best hope tinnitus sufferers have at the moment. But I may be wrong. Maybe @kelpiemsp's and @Clare B's recoveries were flukes. I admit I'm putting all of my eggs in one bimodal basket.

If I am wrong about Lenire in particular and bimodal stimulation in general, then I will admit being wrong publicly, on this forum. But I'm not posting any pics of any of my body parts. It is bad enough that people on this forum suffer from tinnitus; I don't want to make anybody blind on top of it.
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Aside from conventional treatments, we only have one basket at the minute.
 
#950
Skinjob said:
And Neuromonics has a similar name to the company that makes the Lenire treatment, but they could not be more different.
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Thank you so much for answering me and sharing your experience with Neuromonics.

lucy_snow said:
Where are these 100 people who bought the MuteButton device back in 2015? Because as I understand they haven't enhanced the device since 2015
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Could someone explain me the history behind MuteButton, or give me some info? Is it the same device as Neuromod's Lenire? What happened with MuteButton? Was it a fail?
 
#951
acute said:
Thank you so much for answering me and sharing your experience with Neuromonics.

Could someone explain me the history behind MuteButton, or give me some info? Is it the same device as Neuromod's Lenire? What happened with MuteButton? Was it a fail?
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Ostensibly they took it off the market so they could focus their resources on getting proper clinical trial data. Probably this would be so it could get past the FDA and get US release... FDA approval requires better data for devices than does the CE mark system used in Europe.
 
#952
Agrajag364 said:
FDA approval requires better data for devices than does the CE mark system used in Europe.
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Indeed. Good example: the dreaded blatantly awful Antinitus patch had a CE Mark. As far as I understand, it means pretty much nothing else but that it shouldn't cause death or serious injury. It's not a sign of efficacy, for sure.
 
#953
Markku said:
Indeed. Good example: the dreaded blatantly awful Antinitus patch had a CE Mark. As far as I understand, it means pretty much nothing else but that it shouldn't cause death or serious injury. It's not a sign of efficacy, for sure.
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Are you hopeful for this treatment Markku? You must have seen a lot of them come and go over the years.

If you can't answer for whatever reason, that's fine. Just curious to know while deciding whether to go for it or not.
 
#954
Markku said:
Indeed. Good example: the dreaded blatantly awful Antinitus patch had a CE Mark. As far as I understand, it means pretty much nothing else but that it shouldn't cause death or serious injury. It's not a sign of efficacy, for sure.
Click to expand...
The European CE mark system doesn't even mean a device won't cause serious injury. Professor Carl Heneghan from the Oxford Centre for evidence based medicine tried to prove this by getting orange fruit netting approved as a medical device.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scandal-of-fruit-netting-approved-as-surgical-implant-dvcqd2rt9mr

Luckily Neuromod will hopefully have published clinical data soon once they get past peer review which should provide at least some reassurance as to safety.
 
#957
Does anyone know if any technical changes were made from MuteButton to Lenire or is it the same device that was released in 2015, just with clinical trials beneath its belt?
 
#958
Just to get the facts right:

There is nothing stopping Neuromod from writing what they want about Lenire in their advertisements, right?
 
#960
To @ruud1boy, @SignalExec and @Mentos:

Thanks very much for this fact finding reportage.

When you mention such figures as "7 points, 15 points", etc., is this the equivalent of an overall percentage reduction?

And, if not exactly, how would these reductions be expressed percentage-wise?

Thanks, DaveFromChicago
 

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