Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

[Jazzer]

Well, okay. I was angry at you a bit earlier, and my anger was unjustified because I mis-read your intention. I am sorry for that.

On the other hand, I will say that I've noticed one or two people (this is not directed at you, Jazzer) who almost seem like they want Neuromod to fail, so that they can be right and say, "I told you so, you naïve fools."

Thanks for clearing it up SJ - I really didn't mean to upset anybody.
I would love a cure - this thing took my passion, my career, my artistry, my silence.

I have concentrated pretty well everything on meditation and coping skills.
Perhaps I've got fatalistic buddy.

Best
Jazzer x

 

[Tanni]

Some people protect themselves by erring on the cautious side (me - I won't even be trying it because I'm so sure it won't work for me, just because that's how I think - not a reflection on the product at all!!) and some people protect themselves by being positive.

The cautious people and the positive people are arguing here about whether you should be cautious or positive - there's no point in that. We don't know whether it will work yet, so how people choose to feel about it personally is fine for them. Both can exist - but what I will say is that those who protect themselves by being positive need things like this to keep them going, so everyone should be mindful of that.

 

[Aklara319]

Relentless negativity is also a coping mechanism. You get the benefit if it works and do not suffer the same disappointment if it doesn't! Anyways, this thread really hasn't/won't change until something new comes out.

 

[Tanni]

Relentless negativity is also a coping mechanism. You get the benefit if it works and do not suffer the same disappointment if it doesn't! Anyways, this thread really hasn't/won't change until something new comes out.

Yes exactly! That's what I was trying to say above, I just called it 'cautious' in case 'negative' offended anyone. It's exactly the way I work - by protecting myself from the disappointment if it doesn't work out.

The problem is that people are essentially arguing about which mindset is the best, and there isn't a 'best' mindset. We've just got to do whatever works for us to get by with this bloody condition.

 

[GlennS]

What seems to happen is someone comes along and makes a point contrary to the hive mentality which results in everyone piling on the perpetrator for wrongthink.

You keep running with the Orwellian victimhood narrative all you like. Implying that the negative side effects of Neuromod could match thalidomide, for instance, is trolling. It's like, maybe if you wear funky glasses you'll wind up cross-eyed like in The Jerk. Look, if you want to manufacture fear, you can do it. Whether such fears are justified is a different matter entirely. From everything I've digested about this type of treatment, the worst case scenario is it does nothing. Now R David Case's Tinnitus Mix, that's a different story. His treatment is classic unregulated biohacking quackery. The sound file is so shrill I'd be surprised it doesn't cause more hearing damage if you exposed yourself to it for any length of time. That's the thread where such fears should be expressed, not this one.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

You keep running with the Orwellian victimhood narrative all you like. Implying that the negative side effects of Neuromod could match thalidomide, for instance, is trolling. It's like, maybe if you wear funky glasses you'll wind up cross-eyed like in The Jerk. Look, if you want to manufacture fear, you can do it. Whether such fears are justified is a different matter entirely. From everything I've digested about this type of treatment, the worst case scenario is it does nothing.

Pointing out that 'Big Brother' handled their PR poorly is hardly the same as comparing their product to Thalidomide.

 

[ringinghours]

You keep running with the Orwellian victimhood narrative all you like. Implying that the negative side effects of Neuromod could match thalidomide, for instance, is trolling. It's like, maybe if you wear funky glasses you'll wind up cross-eyed like in The Jerk. Look, if you want to manufacture fear, you can do it. Whether such fears are justified is a different matter entirely. From everything I've digested about this type of treatment, the worst case scenario is it does nothing. Now R David Case's Tinnitus Mix, that's a different story. His treatment is classic unregulated biohacking quackery. The sound file is so shrill I'd be surprised it doesn't cause more hearing damage if you exposed yourself to it for any length of time. That's the thread where such fears should be expressed, not this one.

I tried David Case's Tinnitus Mix and it did nothing. He claims that it has a 50% success rate but it did nothing for me. Hopefully Neuromod's device will help. I want to get it as soon as it is released. Unfortunately Neuromod's device is years off from being released.

 

[Fabrikat]

Anyone who's been around this place for a while will attest that Tinnitus Talk has over many years been a virtual roller coaster of high expectations and dramatic falls.

There's a litany of failed and useless treatments, upon which people placed all their hopes only to have them dashed on the rocks below.

It's ok to temper expectations. Expressing views either way will make little difference, since only a paying, multi customer, verified testimony will count in this place.

Until there's a proven breakthrough, hoping for the best, but expecting the worst, is very natural state of mind for the tinnitus sufferer in 2019.

 

[hans799]

Has anyone stopped to consider what they'll do for an hour every day, being forced to sit down and listen to sounds?

Probably troll this thread.

Yep I actually gave that pretty serious thought. Fortunately, our eyes won't be doing anything, so it will be a perfect time to read. That is silent and causes no vibrations. Alternatively if one is so inclined one can also meditate. I think I'll actually love this period of "forced" quiet and inactivity!

 

[Jazzer]

Anyone that pointed out obvious issues with Neuromod was relentlessly attacked. There is an unfortunate tendency towards groupthink on some of these threads.

I get attacked - but 'who cares?'
I've got my groin guard and my gum shield.
The alternative is that I stop thinking, and stop posting - well that ain't gonna happen anytime soon. We all make our points.

 

[Jazzer]

Until there's a proven breakthrough, hoping for the best, but expecting the worst, is very natural state of mind for the tinnitus sufferer in 2019.

Oh - I do love common sense.
Take that man's name - immediately!

 

[Jazzer]

In the mean time - discussion, debate, banter, chitchat, argument, agreement, disagreement, etc... has safely got us through another 24 hours.
Using our noddle, typing our points, expressing both our thoughts and emotions, giving our feelings 'a run out' is actually a very good distraction - n'est pas?

(Can't help getting philosophical at times.
My mum always said "Dave is very good at 'pouring oil on troubled waters - then setting light to it.")

 

[Autumnly]

It's one thing to be skeptical of the device but it's another thing to seemingly look down on people for having hope or being able to keep going based on the prospect of medical treatments.

@Jazzer !! Come one, mate, you know me by now. I didn't mean you. But some people sometimes sound like they look down on people that are still hoping for medical treatments to reduce the tinnitus. The usual "you can't habituate if you need treatments, just accept it" bla bla Wished I was at the level where I could say "It's bad but I can still have some life".

 

[Allan1967]

I think we need to accept that this will work for some, but not others and those it works for could get rid of the tinnitus or see a marginal decrease in it or a significant decrease.

We will have to wait and see and is there any idea of a launch date yet?

Rest assured, when it becomes available I'm going for it.

 

[Jazzer]

It's one thing to be skeptical of the device but it's another thing to seemingly look down on people for having hope or being able to keep going based on the prospect of medical treatments.

And you clearly think I do that then??

(Oh dear....x)

 

[TheDanishGirl]

Yes exactly! That's what I was trying to say above, I just called it 'cautious' in case 'negative' offended anyone. It's exactly the way I work - by protecting myself from the disappointment if it doesn't work out.

The problem is that people are essentially arguing about which mindset is the best, and there isn't a 'best' mindset. We've just got to do whatever works for us to get by with this bloody condition.

This! I just think we need to be respectful of one another, instead of calling somebody out as negative, or naive.

I cope best by maintaining a skeptic outlook about these potentiel treatments (as to avoid disappointment and deep depression, if it does not work for me) My choice of coping is no better OR worse, then a person coping by being more positive about these treatments.

If anybody truly believes that anybody in this thread would want this treatment to fail, so they can say "HA! told ya so".......they are nuts. We are all in the same boat, struggling and suffering. I can safely say for everybody that we ALL want this to succeed more than anything in the world.

 

[Jazzer]

Come one, mate, you know me by now. I didn't mean you.

'Thank goodness'

 

[Ger W]

I will be buying Neuromod device so my bank balance will need a hug!

 

[Hayls32]

I need a drink

 

[ageoflove]

With very very mild, not really noticeable tinnitus since 2008, and severe tinnitus since 2017, I'm quite a "newbie" but I think it's only normal that you get frustrated by "possible cures" which are for many years under development and then getting smashed to pieces in the final stages.

Even if we can't directly develop a cure it should be possible for a strong tinnitus community to get medicine technology to speed things up, and kill "false" hopes faster...

It just can't be that products like "Neuromod" (fictional example here) are under development for years to finally subjectively improve tinnitus by 23% in 12% of tinnitus sufferers when done daily and outside temperature is steady between 19 and 22 degrees...

("sarcasm sign" held up)

 

[Meiro]

https://www.eventscribe.com/2019/AAA-2019/fsPopup.asp?Mode=presInfo&PresentationID=491462

Go here, sign in, and voilà!

 

[annV]

AWESOME FIND!!!

LOOK AT THE PDF AND THE VIDEO!!!

Hubert Lim's presentation on Lenire!

 

[erik]

Anyone who's been around this place for a while will attest that Tinnitus Talk has over many years been a virtual roller coaster of high expectations and dramatic falls.

There's a litany of failed and useless treatments, upon which people placed all their hopes only to have them dashed on the rocks below.

It's ok to temper expectations. Expressing views either way will make little difference, since only a paying, multi customer, verified testimony will count in this place.

Until there's a proven breakthrough, hoping for the best, but expecting the worst, is very natural state of mind for the tinnitus sufferer in 2019.

Spot on!

 

[Watasha]

AWESOME FIND!!!

LOOK AT THE PDF AND THE VIDEO!!!

Hubert Lim's presentation on Lenire!

I know what I'm watching during dinner now... thanks!

 

[Autumnly]

AWESOME FIND!!!

LOOK AT THE PDF AND THE VIDEO!!!

Hubert Lim's presentation on Lenire!

How in the world do you always find these things, this was uploaded half an hour ago?? Admit it, you're a spy!

 

[annV]

How in the world do you always find these things, this was uploaded half an hour ago?? Admit it, you're a spy!

I can't take credit for this one although I (and my boobs) am kewl! I followed @Meiro's advice! It was his find originally! I only shared the video so people wouldn't have to sign up to the eventScribe web page.

What do you think, does the presentation make you feel more encouraged about the treatment?

 

[Hayls32]

I can't take credit for this one although I (and my boobs) am kewl!

Best line I've read on this forum

 

[grate_biff]

I'm not smart enough to understand everything in his presentation, but it seems that they have found even better parameters during the TENT-A2 trial, which is just brilliant news.

What do you think @Paulmanlike?

 

[Bob den Hartog]

I can't take credit for this one although I (and my boobs) am kewl! I followed @Meiro's advice! It was his find originally! I only shared the video so people wouldn't have to sign up to the eventScribe web page.

What do you think, does the presentation make you feel more encouraged about the treatment?

Great find, both you and @Meiro!

About the encouragement; for me, yes, it does! What is most encouraging, is how the best performing arm (2) shows even better results than what we knew so far, with 87.6% improvers (instead of 80%), and 76.4% improved clinically significantly. So that's not 2/3rds, but 3/4!

What I also find interesting, is how the arms could serve different functions. For example, while arm 2 shows the best results for tinnitus sufferers overall, it's arm 1 that shows the best results for hyperacusis participants. So they could incorporate this into the settings when you're buying yours.

I do have some concerns about the adverse events, though. I'm wondering if these effects were temporary, or permanent? Also, given there are subjects that gave a strong increase in their THI over the period of the trial. It's a minority, but still. When combined with what they say about, there not being any treatment related serious adverse events, I'm taking it the negative events were temporary, and those negative THI's were not treatment related? Maybe he said something about this in the video?

There's also this:
Greater therapeutic effects are possible by changing the stimulation settings over time.

And:
A key goal of Tent A2 is to drive greater improvements in tinnitus

 

[spedgas]

I'm not smart enough to understand everything in his presentation, but it seems that they found even better parameters during the TENT-A2 trial, which is just brilliant news.

What do you think @Paulmanlike?

The two things that jump out at me the most: They note better results when the treatment parameters were changed for the second six weeks of treatment. This may hamper traveling to get this device if the parameters need to be changed at the halfway point. I doubt that will be possible for the user to do on their own.

Of bigger concern is the acknowledgement in each arm that people experienced mild/moderate increase in tinnitus volume. I found no mention of this either staying or going away. The graphs make it look like there is immediate improvement, followed by worsening, then followed by improvement.

If I'm reading these graphs correctly it looks like people continued to improve even after the treatment was stopped.