Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

[AliceW]

@AliceW apologies I didn't get a chance to stick around at the clinic and have an introduction!

It turned out to be a very manic day with the usual delayed flights courtesy of British Airways and some very busy airports.

Saw your review and really glad your appointment went well, fingers crossed for a positive result!!

Hi @Cojackb,

No worries, I understand!

I really hope that your tinnitus will improve in the coming weeks.

Keep faith, Caroline told me that we can start responding well even after the 12 weeks have passed.

Perhaps you can try to do relaxation techniques to help in combination with Lenire.

What was the cause of your tinnitus? Is your hearing good?
At the beginning, did Neuromod say that your hearing/tinnitus profile would respond well to Lenire?

 

[MRItechssuck]

4860 messages... is there anyone that can personally say that their tinnitus has been reduced... even if it is just perception?

This seems like a biofeedback device? Thanks, I'm worn out reading every thread...

 

[GoatSheep]

4860 messages... is there anyone that can personally say that their tinnitus has been reduced... even if it is just perception?

This seems like a biofeedback device? Thanks, I'm worn out reading every thread...

Read the Lenire User Experiences & Reviews thread instead.

 

[AliceW]

4860 messages... is there anyone that can personally say that their tinnitus has been reduced... even if it is just perception?

This seems like a biofeedback device? Thanks, I'm worn out reading every thread...

Caroline insisted on the fact that Lenire has nothing to do with TRT, it's not a unimodal therapy like TRT.

The goal with bimodal stimulation is to calm the overexcited areas in the brain to reduce/suppress tinnitus. It's not a habituation device.

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

Neuromod finally got back to me today, but not with an appointment date.

They are saying they are working on getting another room, so they can do more appointments. 2019 is booked, they are trying to get me in for early 2020.

They hope to move through the appointment list quickly once they have the second room.

I applied back in July, so it'll probably be the same for @Mathieulh and anyone else who applied around that time.

 

[GlennS]

What is the TENT-A3? Can someone catch me up on this?

It's the fictitious name we coined for the third trial they should have done before release.

 

[Ruse]

@Hazel How are you guys getting along with the video?

 

[Hazel]

@Hazel How are you guys getting along with the video?

Hi there,

There's no video. It's an episode of the Tinnitus Talk Podcast, so audio only.

These things take quite a bit of time to get ready: editing (done by the awesome @Markku!), reviewing (I and the lovely @Autumnly), transcribing (thanks to our incredible @Liz Windsor), preparing text descriptions for the various channels (I'm drafting them and, as a final step, @Markku takes care of publishing the episode), etc. We're working hard on it

The podcast episode will be released first to our Patreon supporters, I expect within a week or so, and later to everyone else.



So join as Patreon supporter if you want advance access!!!

 

[Dizzyhead888]

When I was at the Neuromod clinic for my first appointment, I talked to a patient. She had been using Lenire for 12 weeks.

She told me that after the first 6 weeks, her tinnitus had decreased by about 10 dB. Then, they changed her settings for the next 6 weeks, and after that she felt that her tinnitus had increased back up.

I think she was still seeing an overall improvement, and she is continuing the treatment with another stimulation settings for several weeks.

She was confident because she saw a real difference during the first 6 weeks of her treatment.

How is 10 dB measured? Is it the minimum masking level or real world noise?
If it's the minimum masking level, then this is really impressive.

My MML is 20 dB, if it got reduced to 10 dB, I would be so happy.
But 10 dB in real world noise is not that much.

 

[AliceW]

How is 10 dB measured? Is it the minimum masking level or real world noise?
If it's the minimum masking level, then this is really impressive.

My MML is 20 dB, if it got reduced to 10 dB, I would be so happy.
But 10 dB in real world noise is not that much.

I think it was measured by minimum masking level.

 

[ThomasC]

@AliceW

Does your tinnitus have to be maskable to use Lenire?

 

[ThomasC]

How is 10 dB measured? Is it the minimum masking level or real world noise?
If it's the minimum masking level, then this is really impressive.

My MML is 20 dB, if it got reduced to 10 dB, I would be so happy.
But 10 dB in real world noise is not that much.

Is your tinnitus mild? 20 dB doesn't seem like much.

 

[Dizzyhead888]

Is your tinnitus mild? 20 dB doesn't seem like much.

No, it's severe.

20db MML is very different than the 20 dB on your smartphone app.

I need like 70 dB real world noise to mask 90% of my tinnitus. It still won't mask it completely.

 

[MRItechssuck]

Caroline insisted on the fact that Lenire has nothing to do with TRT, it's not a unimodal therapy like TRT.

The goal with bimodal stimulation is to calm the overexcited areas in the brain to reduce/suppress tinnitus. It's not a habituation device.

Whatever exactly they call it, I'm having a bad morning and being cynical. Their goal is to make money, and personal anecdotes don't mean much, especially since we don't know if money is changing hands.

 

[pochito]

Does your tinnitus have to be maskable to use Lenire?

Nope, they couldn't mask mine but I still got accepted.

 

[Ruse]

Whatever exactly they call it, I'm having a bad morning and being cynical. Their goal is to make money, and personal anecdotes don't mean much, especially since we don't know if money is changing hands.

So they paid off over 500 people in the clinical trials?

 

[MRItechssuck]

So they paid off over 500 people in the clinical trials?

Who knows... just being cynical as I said. Maybe I missed the result of the clinical trials, where is it?

Read how someone lamented how much money is spent and profits made on maskers, and hearing aids... just like dentists would fight and lobby against any new drug that eliminated all plaque and tooth decay.

When I see these new drugs to save our ears... I wonder when the hearing aid lobby will suddenly start fighting it.

It's just a roller coaster and I bottomed out this morning, so take my comment with that perspective.

 

[JayBowson]

Their goal is to make money, and personal anecdotes don't mean much

Unfortunately due to the nature of tinnitus (it being an invisible condition and no reliable tests existing), anecdotes are all we're going to get. Lots and lots of anecdotes. Which is kind of what we have from the trial data. And what we're currently getting from the user experiences.

especially since we don't know if money is changing hands.

Oh money is definitely exchanging hands. If you wish to purchase Lenire it will cost you roughly 2 thousand smackers.
Everyone who currently owns a device has attested to this cost. Make no mistake.

Unless you were insinuating something else that you had a shred of evidence for?

 

[MRItechssuck]

Just like anecdotes are "not a shred of evidence" are they?

Good reviews on products get made all the time with money or benefits exchanged... it's nothing new.

It's true tinnitus is invisible so I agree that's why treatment has been difficult.

Look I want this product or any product to work, but I've been seeing the same junk for over 15 years with tinnitus.

 

[ThomasC]

No, it's severe.

20db MML is very different than the 20 dB on your smartphone app.

I need like 70 dB real world noise to mask 90% of my tinnitus. It still won't mask it completely.

OK, very similar to my tinnitus.
10 dB is a massive improvement then.

 

[BigNick]

Hi @BigNick

I hope all is going well for you.
I know you are in the midst of treatment and it's too early to conclude the efficacy of Lenire on your tinnitus.

I would like to know how are your spasms? Always better?
Before Lenire, did you have TTTS (ear spasms and contractions of the middle ear muscles to some sounds)?

I asked Caroline if Lenire could be effective on TTTS and ear spasms.
She told me that during the clinical trials, they didn't evaluate these conditions. But she added that many tinnitus patients who had hyperacusis reported a reduction in their sensitivity to external noises after using Lenire.

She told me that a lot of patients with tinnitus also had uncomfortable ear sensations like fullness, ear pain, plugged feeling...

But I didn't really understand if these bad sensations would go away at the same time as tinnitus.

Anyone knows about that?

I have a big improvement in my ear spasms thus far. I will do a 12-week update next week.

 

[JayBowson]

Good reviews on products get made all the time with money or benefits exchanged... it's nothing new.

Indeed even I received some free Smart Plugs from a company on Amazon in exchange for good reviews on the platform, so I'm aware of the practise. But there hasn't been a single person from any of the trials or anyone on here who has even hinted that this might be the case at Neuromod. So I don't think its reasonable at the moment to throw statements like this around even in passing.

Just like anecdotes are "not a shred of evidence" are they?

Like I said: Anecdotes and testimonials are the only thing we're going to get in this field for quite a while. As long as the condition remains invisible and without any clear biological or electrical marker then there really isn't any other way that we can measure the outcomes. So we ask as many patients as possible what the outcome of the treatment was and mark it on a scale.

 

[JohnAdams]

Indeed even I received some free Smart Plugs from a company on Amazon in exchange for good reviews on the platform

How is that ethical?

Anecdotes and testimonials are the only thing we're going to get in this field for quite a while.

Damn right.

 

[JayBowson]

How is that ethical?

It isn't. I believe they use it as a way to get their products into the featured sections. To be clear I wouldn't have actually complied with their "Give us your thoughts (hint hint) Good review (hint hint)". I normally give bad reviews for stuff that doesn't work well. It's an excellent way of getting your money back IME.

But the Smart Plugs actually turned out to be good quality in the end so I did.

But all that's aside from this topic.

 

[ruud1boy]

Just like anecdotes are "not a shred of evidence" are they?

Good reviews on products get made all the time with money or benefits exchanged... it's nothing new.

It's true tinnitus is invisible so I agree that's why treatment has been difficult.

Look I want this product or any product to work, but I've been seeing the same junk for over 15 years with tinnitus.

Forgive me for being dumb, but I'm struggling to follow the thrust of your argument here. Are you saying that those of us on here that have been reporting our experiences with this treatment are actually fraudsters? Selling a fake dream to desperate people?

I can tell you straight, the only money that's changed hands in my dealings with Neuromod is me giving them £2k+. Plus another grand or so spent on travels costs etc. If you believe we are paid shills, believe me, you're wrong.

 

[MRItechssuck]

Are you saying that those of us on here that have been reporting our experiences with this treatment are actually fraudsters? Selling a fake dream to desperate people?

I can tell you straight, the only money that's changed hands in my dealings with Neuromod is me giving them £2k+. Plus another grand or so spent on travels costs etc. If you believe we are paid shills, believe me, you're wrong.

No don't take it personally. As someone who has had tinnitus for 15+ years I haven't seen anything happen in the field, it is frustrating... as I said in my first post today on this thread.

"So they paid off over 500 people in the clinical trials?" was really the discussion point. 500 people... not on this forum for this device. 500 people... all better? No... are all of those 500 people in some clinical trial all honest... who knows?

I'm having a bad morning... so I'm not looking for an "argument," life is too short for that baloney... arguing whether some corporation for-profit is 100% ethical... how would we know.

It does happen in general, in life... unscrupulous people taking money for good reviews. I haven't said anything about the people on this forum... many of whom are suicidal.

I was speaking more to Neuromod's advertising/data.

You have to admit tinnitus is very ripe for snake oil salesmen. I think I've seen 100 "doubting Thomas's" in my week here. 15 years ago I spoke with Dr. Nagler, I was going to do TRT... in the end I habituated pretty damn well until my belief in the medical system let me down again. YMMV.

 

[MRItechssuck]

I can tell you straight, the only money that's changed hands in my dealings with Neuromod is me giving them £2k+. Plus another grand or so spent on travels costs etc.

Ok, what benefits have you personally had in general?

Thanks.

 

[ruud1boy]

No don't take it personally. As someone who has had tinnitus for 15+ years I haven't seen anything happen in the field, it is frustrating... as I said in my first post today on this thread.

"So they paid off over 500 people in the clinical trials?" was really the discussion point. 500 people... not on this forum for this device. 500 people... all better? No... are all of those 500 people in some clinical trial all honest... who knows?

I'm having a bad morning... so I'm not looking for an "argument," life is too short for that baloney... arguing whether some corporation for-profit is 100% ethical... how would we know.

It does happen in general, in life... unscrupulous people taking money for good reviews. I haven't said anything about the people on this forum... many of whom are suicidal.

I was speaking more to Neuromod's advertising/data.

You have to admit tinnitus is very ripe for snake oil salesmen. I think I've seen 100 "doubting Thomas's" in my week here. 15 years ago I spoke with Dr. Nagler, I was going to do TRT... in the end I habituated pretty damn well until my belief in the medical system let me down again. YMMV.

WTF are you talking about boy?

You seem to have been listening to far too many Donald Trump press conferences and have adopted his idiolect. Your comments veer off into blind alleys and make next to no sense.

 

[Mandalay]

@ruud1boy and @Cojackb,

Thanks a lot for your updates guys. It seems like we don't have a real "success story" right now.

Maybe we hear from @Liz Windsor, @TinMan, @jacob21 and @Redknight soon. Maybe they have experienced some benefit.

As far as I know those are the others who have passed 12 weeks of treatment, am I right?
Of course I understand if somebody doesn't want to report anything because tinnitus can be a very private and personal thing... but I can't help but be curious about the results (so far) for them.

 

[MRItechssuck]

WTF are you talking about boy?

You seem to have been listening to far too many Donald Trump press conferences and have adopted his idiolect. Your comments veer off into blind alleys and make next to no sense.

You seem very emotional and triggered. You veer off into a personal attack, that's nice.
You were the one with comprehension issues assuming I was questioning the honesty of the responders on the forum, which I was not.

Wow, this escalated quickly...lol.

Have a good day.