Mithrandir
Member
- Nov 17, 2015
- 336
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic Shock Disorder (TTTS)
Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)
- Thread starter joe
- Start date
Member
As I have read in LLLT the more the better but! We all know why 808 and 650 is chosen here. Those LED's are easily found on the market.
@Philip83 Could you pm me the price they have quoted you?
@Philip83
@Cityjohn
@Sara_Bond
Attached is the instruction manual for the Lucky Laser. It is only a few pages long, and the photos have not been updated to show the new glass tips. But I thought you might find it helpful to review.
Also worth mentioning - the Lucky Laser ships with only one pair of protective goggles which protects against one of the two wavelengths - the 808 wavelength. Lasers can cause immediate and irreversible damage to vision if they accidentally shine into the eyes. Highly recommended would be to obtain a second pair of special laser goggles to protect against the 650 wavelength.
@Cityjohn
@Sara_Bond
Attached is the instruction manual for the Lucky Laser. It is only a few pages long, and the photos have not been updated to show the new glass tips. But I thought you might find it helpful to review.
Also worth mentioning - the Lucky Laser ships with only one pair of protective goggles which protects against one of the two wavelengths - the 808 wavelength. Lasers can cause immediate and irreversible damage to vision if they accidentally shine into the eyes. Highly recommended would be to obtain a second pair of special laser goggles to protect against the 650 wavelength.
@lymebite
Thank you for the user instructions, I just had a look. I have some questions pls:
- 1/Can we find these protective goggles on Amazon for instance?
-2/I was thinking... Should I buy also an adaptor? I mean are they manufactured for European plugs?
-3/In case of an adaptor is needed, do you think the power could not be so powerful, like a little loss of power?
-4/I've been recommended to get the one with 4 probes, does it make sense?
Thanks again for your help!
Thank you for the user instructions, I just had a look. I have some questions pls:
- 1/Can we find these protective goggles on Amazon for instance?
-2/I was thinking... Should I buy also an adaptor? I mean are they manufactured for European plugs?
-3/In case of an adaptor is needed, do you think the power could not be so powerful, like a little loss of power?
-4/I've been recommended to get the one with 4 probes, does it make sense?
Thanks again for your help!
@Sara_Bond
My Lucky Laser shipped with 4 power adapters as shown in the photo. I purchased the Lightobject LSR-G650EP2 goggles from Amazon for the 650 nm wavelength. My Lucky Laser shipped with the same brand of goggles - Lightobject - for the 808 nm wavelength.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VA7JP44
Even with the goggles, great care is important - laser light can reflect off any shiny surface in the room, such as metal or a window, and reflect back toward your eyes. Good practice is to use it in a room without any shiny objects.
I got the one with 4 probes. There is discussion on this thread about whether or not the extra cost of the 4 probe model is worth it, and whether it helps prevent vertigo to treat both ears at the same time (which you can do with the 4 probe model but not the 2 probe model). I am not sure and defer to others and to the previous comments in the thread.
My Lucky Laser shipped with 4 power adapters as shown in the photo. I purchased the Lightobject LSR-G650EP2 goggles from Amazon for the 650 nm wavelength. My Lucky Laser shipped with the same brand of goggles - Lightobject - for the 808 nm wavelength.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VA7JP44
Even with the goggles, great care is important - laser light can reflect off any shiny surface in the room, such as metal or a window, and reflect back toward your eyes. Good practice is to use it in a room without any shiny objects.
I got the one with 4 probes. There is discussion on this thread about whether or not the extra cost of the 4 probe model is worth it, and whether it helps prevent vertigo to treat both ears at the same time (which you can do with the 4 probe model but not the 2 probe model). I am not sure and defer to others and to the previous comments in the thread.
bill 112
Member
I have started this thread in an attempt to shed some light onto LLLT treatment for everyone here at TT.
Now I have currently not started LLLT treatment as I'm currently awaiting it's delivery but I will be posting regular updates here of if any improvements I experience during treatment.I like many here was a huge sceptic of this treatment so please leave the"it's a scam"comments for another thread,the purpose of this is to decide if it really does anything at all.
I would also like to state that the Laser I purchased is somewhat controversial as some members believe it's not strong enough etc.
The laser I purchased was from Konftec at the price of $700 simply because I don't have $2000 to spend on a lucky laser.I will say that I have anecdotal reports from friends using the Konftec laser who seen improvements so for the sake of argument let's keep our minds open to the Konftec Laser.
Current Status
T:4/10 Also Reactive.
H:9/10 unbearable
Distortion of higher frequencies i.e crisp packets etc 3/10
As for which treatment protocol I'm going to follow I haven't decided yet as I can't work out which is best for my current situation,type of laser etc so anyone with any info or opinions are more than welcome to leave a comment that may be beneficial.
I also just want to add that if I don't see any improvement I don't want it to be seen as discrediting this technique,this is a personal experience and nothing more but it might give some members a clearer picture into LLLT.
Any questions just ask,thanks
Now I have currently not started LLLT treatment as I'm currently awaiting it's delivery but I will be posting regular updates here of if any improvements I experience during treatment.I like many here was a huge sceptic of this treatment so please leave the"it's a scam"comments for another thread,the purpose of this is to decide if it really does anything at all.
I would also like to state that the Laser I purchased is somewhat controversial as some members believe it's not strong enough etc.
The laser I purchased was from Konftec at the price of $700 simply because I don't have $2000 to spend on a lucky laser.I will say that I have anecdotal reports from friends using the Konftec laser who seen improvements so for the sake of argument let's keep our minds open to the Konftec Laser.
Current Status
T:4/10 Also Reactive.
H:9/10 unbearable
Distortion of higher frequencies i.e crisp packets etc 3/10
As for which treatment protocol I'm going to follow I haven't decided yet as I can't work out which is best for my current situation,type of laser etc so anyone with any info or opinions are more than welcome to leave a comment that may be beneficial.
I also just want to add that if I don't see any improvement I don't want it to be seen as discrediting this technique,this is a personal experience and nothing more but it might give some members a clearer picture into LLLT.
Any questions just ask,thanks
@lymebite--many thanks for all the info on the Lucky device. If one buys the 2 probe version, why is it not possible to use the 650 and 808 laser probes simultaneously, maybe switching them at half-time to ensure both ears get the same treatment? One might need to buy blocking glasses with a wide coverage of blocked wavelengths, but there must be such lenses?
I have used a Vielight 633 simultaneously with an 810 with no apparent trouble, but these of course are very low-level devices.
I have used a Vielight 633 simultaneously with an 810 with no apparent trouble, but these of course are very low-level devices.
- Nov 25, 2015
- 1,705
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Large caliber rifles&machine guns, +30 years of loud clubs
I Made a cardboard eye protection "eyewear" wiht layers of black aluminum tape inside - since we apply it on the side of the face that's where the beam may slip into the corner of the eye
Even the expensive glasses don't cover corners well but there is no need to spend a lot of money on these if you can built it yourself and stick it on a exiting pair of glasses or buy cheaper welding googles etc
Just get the best lucky version - more power and 4 probes unless you have one perfect ear ! not so much price difference
Even the expensive glasses don't cover corners well but there is no need to spend a lot of money on these if you can built it yourself and stick it on a exiting pair of glasses or buy cheaper welding googles etc
Just get the best lucky version - more power and 4 probes unless you have one perfect ear ! not so much price difference
@ChrisH
Could be okay, I don't really know enough to say one way or the other. One LLLT clinician I spoke with felt it was important to treat both ears with the same laser simultaneously. But on the other hand, some people in this thread have reported being perfectly fine with the 2 probe model. Sounds like your experience is consistent with those who have not had issues with the 2 probe model.
Hopefully more people will report their experience here, improvements or not, with details on the specific laser and the specific protocol they are using, and if it is helpful. More results would help answer questions such as this one and others!
The goggles could be a material issue. I cannot say I am an expert at all, but when I was shopping it did seem like goggles were designed to be specific to certain wavelength ranges.
When I started making LLLT, but my first treatment was at Dr Wilden not at Anne.
Hi
Can can you explain what you mean with Spike, is when T goes up for a few seconds and then drops again or is for a few days?
Thanks
@FERNANDO GIL
When T goes up for just a few seconds that is usually what is called an SBUTT (sudden brief unilateral tapering tinnitus).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21970850
Lots of people get SBUTTs who do not have tinnitus. They are not necessarily related to regular bothersome tinnitus that is present all the time. My guess is that when most people on TTalk say they have a spike, they are not talking about an SBUTT that lasts a few seconds - but rather something that lasts hours, days, or weeks.
When T goes up for just a few seconds that is usually what is called an SBUTT (sudden brief unilateral tapering tinnitus).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21970850
Lots of people get SBUTTs who do not have tinnitus. They are not necessarily related to regular bothersome tinnitus that is present all the time. My guess is that when most people on TTalk say they have a spike, they are not talking about an SBUTT that lasts a few seconds - but rather something that lasts hours, days, or weeks.
ok
i understand, i was just mention the same as Hansi wrote in is blog, that is what call them. If i took someone in mistake sorry for that.
when i got my Lucky laser it came out with protective sunglasses?
i think they still come
The majority of the persons don´t make audiograms all the way to 16mhz, so they don´t know.
- Nov 25, 2015
- 1,705
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Large caliber rifles&machine guns, +30 years of loud clubs
Hi guys & girls
Today I had a noisy person shout briefly in my bad ear in the office - I am not wearing plugs there of course.
I immediately felt some ear pain and of course T went up for the rest of the day.
Not sure if it did actual damage, but this is where I find value in this LLLT device - if you expose your hair cells to new noise then you finally have real chance at "rescuing hair cells" provided it is in the acute phase - up to a week after trauma in the rats study, starting on the same day.
I will do double the irradiation time for a week just for that but even then I am grateful that I don't have to run around like a crazy guy to find a solution...it is there ready at home and tested on me so I know how and what to do already, no need to learn from scratch and again loose more precious time either.
This is where this light device will "shine" - acute stage hair cell rescue and on-going prevention for people with already damaged and weaker ears.
Expecting photons to cure a long time broken inner ear or chronic tinnitus may be too much to ask, but the acute/prevention piece is a realistic expectation and this is well worth the 2100 USD payed for that.
Today I had a noisy person shout briefly in my bad ear in the office - I am not wearing plugs there of course.
I immediately felt some ear pain and of course T went up for the rest of the day.
Not sure if it did actual damage, but this is where I find value in this LLLT device - if you expose your hair cells to new noise then you finally have real chance at "rescuing hair cells" provided it is in the acute phase - up to a week after trauma in the rats study, starting on the same day.
I will do double the irradiation time for a week just for that but even then I am grateful that I don't have to run around like a crazy guy to find a solution...it is there ready at home and tested on me so I know how and what to do already, no need to learn from scratch and again loose more precious time either.
This is where this light device will "shine" - acute stage hair cell rescue and on-going prevention for people with already damaged and weaker ears.
Expecting photons to cure a long time broken inner ear or chronic tinnitus may be too much to ask, but the acute/prevention piece is a realistic expectation and this is well worth the 2100 USD payed for that.
bill 112
Member
bill 112
Member
This something I can't get accurately done here unfortunately
Only to 10,000hz in some audiologists.I hear up to 18,000hz in both ears but volume has to be raised a tiny bit from 16-18000hz in my left ear to become audible.Thats as accurate as I can get it now.
This something I can't get accurately done here unfortunately
I envy you though.. I'm pretty much deaf after 13kHz
Do you already know when you are going to?
It's been quite a while since you started llt right?
around August 2 years after my last one. and when i started to make LLLT
When i started i knew this was a 4 year plan, so i´m not in hurry to see the audiograms.
When i started i knew this was a 4 year plan, so i´m not in hurry to see the audiograms.
- Nov 25, 2015
- 1,705
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Large caliber rifles&machine guns, +30 years of loud clubs
maybe 50cm but loud and it was high frequency woman's voice must have it been around my damaged higher frequencies because I felt a sharp pain I don't feel that anymore for lower frequencies like man's voices
Anyway like Fernando wrote this is a several years plan so I may wear plugs in the office whenever there may be conversations if this is what it takes - I will do it until ears are stronger.
My ears feel much better now, each month is better and even T is usually softer than 2-3 months ago but it can still get loud at times
Improvements are so slow its hard to keep track..healing ears requires a lot of patience
bill 112
Member
Seeing as I had H and T for two years that got much better but then got much worse is there any hope that I can get improvement like maybe back to what I was before it got worse?Or even better?I don't care how long it takes and also when should I wear hearing protection to optimise any healing?All day or no?I keep getting caught by loud noises which might not be a good thing and is probably going to slow my progress.Bobby can you shed some light on this also if you don't mind?Just looking for pointers so I know that I'm doing this right.
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