Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

#815
mrgrey said:
o it is not unusual treatment to continue 2/3 weeks after laser exposure?
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Hello-
I said 2/3 weeks so you can see the reaction to the first tretament. But if you have the chance to make home laser right away, I don´t see any problem. I my opoinion the lasers we are used to talk here in the fórum ,Dr Wildem 650 /30 Mw, are too weak. It can low the T but will take much more time. From my experience we really need some power laser sessions and some breaks as well. I´m not here to promote the sales of any particular laser, but I feel that LUCKY LASER is the best avaliarem on the market we can get. You will have two wavelenghts and some power.
Once again is all about the money. If you have a chance and if you feel that LLLT can help you. then I would say try it.

Sheers
 
#816
FERNANDO GIL said:
I would wait 2/3 months.
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So from your experience the best would be to protect the ears during that time and don't even do home laser until 2/3 months?

edit:I might be considering Konftec as I dont think I can get Lucy to US easily. Anne claims that she had patients that had success with Konftec but it took longer.
 
#817
bwspot said:
So from your experience the best would be to protect the ears during that time and don't even do home laser until 2/3 months?
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HI.
I thought you were asking only about the audiogram?. I think the treatment made at Anne does have an efect during 2/3 months, She says the same. So I think is only around that date that you should check your ears again with audigram, But try to note if you can ear better, if the sound of the TV it´s louder than it was. Those are the first signs. The truth is that I made 1 audigram 1 week before first tretament at Dr Wilden, 7 weeks after I was felling better, but no big changes on the 2nd audigram. Did not make any since August last year. I know we get
anxious to see the results,but we have to undersyand it takes time.

Protect your ears, should be the rule do it as much as possible.

Concerning the home laser, I did keep doing two extra weeks after coming from Anne. Then I stoped till today. Today I made 1 hour and half with Lucky laser and the two probes at the same time. I intend to do it for 10/15 days and then stop again, for 2 weeks.

But LLLT is very personal tretatment, so follow your instincts, if you fell is ok to do some more LLLT sessions. Do it.

Sheers
.
 
#819
Regarding the hearing test, this webpage might possibly be useful. It will not be as objective as a professional one as your headphones would need calibrating, etc. But for keeping an eye on how your hearing changes (or doesn't) over time it might be useful. You need to always use the same headphones and volume settings, etc. You could then go for an official test when you feel it is time to get some more reliable results.

http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/hearing.html
 
#821
dboy said:
Regarding the hearing test, this webpage might possibly be useful. It will not be as objective as a professional one as your headphones would need calibrating, etc. But for keeping an eye on how your hearing changes (or doesn't) over time it might be useful. You need to always use the same headphones and volume settings, etc. You could then go for an official test when you feel it is time to get some more reliable results.

http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/hearing.html
Click to expand...
I know this one but unfortunately i did not use it to record my hearing before lllt.
I might just set the pc volume to x every time i test and use same headsets and just try to find the quietest tones and record separately for left and right and repeat after month. It wont show me real audiogram data, but i will be able to know if something changed. thx for the tip
 
#822
FERNANDO GIL said:
But try to note if you can ear better, if the sound of the TV it´s louder than it was.
Click to expand...
I kind of felt that everything is a little detailed now. This was my first impression but I was not sure if this is because i protect a lot or post lllt. For now 4K sound sounds more quiet in left compared to the right ear.
 
#824
FERNANDO GIL said:
Hi Zach, sorry if my English is not so good so I can´t express better. What yousaid right is correct, and that is what I pretende to say.

Cause is the natural way of our body to heal. When you have a wound, and it start to heal, is from the outside to the inside. The "good" cells help to promote the "regeneration " or "repair" ( call it what you think is more correct) of the closer cells. That´s why we say " our wound is closing" . And if you see the audiograms of the people doing LLLT the process of healling is pretty much the same for everybody. The good cells, get better first , and then the cells close to the already "regenerated, repaired" cells start to heal. That´s why usual the sound change. My T sound now is diferent from the sound I had one year ago, the lower frequencies are now healed so the sound I have now is for the high frequencies.

Sheers
Click to expand...
Thanks for the answer, but as a follow up I'd like to state that in my knowledge, the hair cells are not like "skin cells". They are more independent and need no healthy hair cells around them. All they need is healthy supporting cells. So I'm not sure if the "wound example" is valid in this case.
 
#825
Zechariah said:
Thanks for the answer, but as a follow up I'd like to state that in my knowledge, the hair cells are not like "skin cells". They are more independent and need no healthy hair cells around them. All they need is healthy supporting cells. So I'm not sure if the "wound example" is valid in this case.
Click to expand...
Make sense, but the questions is why our ear cells would not "act as other from our body", knowing that they all have almost the same contains. But diferent functions of corse.
 
#826
IMPORTANT NOTICE:
I know there are some people buying the LUCKY LASER and some already have it. Please note that when using the 904 nm above 400 mW you should not point the laser to black things. They could get hot. So the ones with black air (like me) should be carefull when using the 904mW behind the ear. I knew it since I went to the first tretament in Anne Clinic, she advise me of that. is time to cut my hair again.
 
#827
Hi Everyone

In May 2014 I had a sudden hearing loss in my left ear. A Tinnitus came along with that and shortly after I developed Hyperacusis in both ears. The Tinnitus got worse and worse as time passed. It doesn't leave me a minute in peace. Now it is so loud that avoids me to hear properly conversations with my other ear.
The Hyperacusis though is for me even worse because it is painful. My ears are so sensitive that I cannot tolerate so many different sounds in my surroundings, even at home. These sounds don't need to be loud in order to be over amplified in my ears. Little blows or impacts is just what is needed. The handling of paper sheets, paper and plastic bags, laying down cutlery on a dish, or a mug on a table, the sound of water that runs from the faucet or in the shower, etc. are simply to loud and intolerable and painful. I am getting crazy and hopeless without getting any medical help.

I have been with specialists and the only frustrating thing I have heard is " there is no known medical treatment or medicament which can be used scientifically to cure a Tinnitus and Hyperacusis ". You have to get used to it, there is no way to help you, don't think in your problem, be less stressed, do exercise, and the good things is that it won't kill you... and go home the problem is yours.

When I asked for alternative medicines to these specialists, I got many times the same answer " there are many therapies for Tinnitus as you can imagine, just go to the internet to find them, but none of them have a verified scientific medical base " . You can spend thousands going from one therapy to the next one without getting cure.

I came across recently with the LLLT developed by Dr. Wilden in Germany and thought to myself, this therapy seems to have a competent medical concept behind and the improvement can be measurable. I went first to the different websites of Dr. Wilden and found that there is the stationary treatment, to which some of you have been already patients and also found the website in which they are offering the small portable laser systems for in house use, of which some of you have already purchased and used for some period as complementary therapy.

I would ask please those of you who so far have taken the Therapy with Dr. Wilden in his office and/or used the portable laser system developed by Dr. Wilden to let me know if they have helped you overcome with your Tinnitus and Hyperacusis. In case yes, how long after you got better and what percentage your improvement has been after using the therapies.
I want to know if I should consider using this alternative therapy and don't be frustrated after expending important amount of money and time applying the therapy without getting positive results.

Thanks in advance for your most frank answer.
 
#829
#830
FERNANDO GIL said:
Make sense, but the questions is why our ear cells would not "act as other from our body", knowing that they all have almost the same contains. But diferent functions of corse.
Click to expand...
You are missing my point here. Skin cells need each other for support and forming the skin. Hair cells need no support from other hair cells. Hair cells can fill their purpose individually, skin cells can't. That's the reason why you can't compare hair cell regeneration to healing wound.
 
#831
Zechariah said:
You are missing my point here. Skin cells need each other for support and forming the skin. Hair cells need no support from other hair cells. Hair cells can fill their purpose individually, skin cells can't. That's the reason why you can't compare hair cell regeneration to healing wound.
Click to expand...

Maybe I can´t compare. But is exactly what happens just see what happens in the audiograms with people that makes LLLT.
 
#832
FERNANDO GIL said:
Maybe I can´t compare. But is exactly what happens just see what happens in the audiograms with people that makes LLLT.
Click to expand...
So you absolutely state that healthy hair cells help damage hair cells to heal...? Without any science based facts?

Yes, graphs may look like it but that doesn't mean necessarily that healthy hair cells are helping damaged hair cells to recover so I think you shouldn't say that unless there is some science behind it.

I'd gladly read some studies of the subject if it is really true.
 
#833
Zechariah said:
So you absolutely state that healthy hair cells help damage hair cells to heal...? Without any science based facts?
Click to expand...

NO.
And I never said that, I´m no doctor and never made any science test. I´m just a normal person with Tinnitus that try to understand the treatment is making. I had a few hours talk with Dr Wilden and some long hours talk with Anne Harilla, that is just one the biggest authority in the world in laser treatment. The two of them think the same, and if you see audigrams ( not many that´s true) is exactly what happens.
Anyone in this fórum that is doing LLLT, knows that the sound of the T changes with time. That means some frequencies get cured and then you start to notice a diferent sound , that usual is the closed frequency.

Zechariah said:
I'd gladly read some studies of the subject if it is really true.
Click to expand...
So do I. The big problem with T is that you can´t check how your are cells are on the inside. From day to day. So I think there isn´t any study.
People just presume that ear cells act like the others, and when you see an audiogram, you notice that damage frequencies close to the healthy frequencies get "repaired" faster, than the others.
For me makes sense, if that doesn´t make sense to you, I just have to respect that.

Sheers
 
#834
FERNANDO GIL said:
NO.
And I never said that, I´m no doctor and never made any science test. I´m just a normal person with Tinnitus that try to understand the treatment is making. I had a few hours talk with Dr Wilden and some long hours talk with Anne Harilla, that is just one the biggest authority in the world in laser treatment. The two of them think the same, and if you see audigrams ( not many that´s true) is exactly what happens.
Anyone in this fórum that is doing LLLT, knows that the sound of the T changes with time. That means some frequencies get cured and then you start to notice a diferent sound , that usual is the closed frequency.


So do I. The big problem with T is that you can´t check how your are cells are on the inside. From day to day. So I think there isn´t any study.
People just presume that ear cells act like the others, and when you see an audiogram, you notice that damage frequencies close to the healthy frequencies get "repaired" faster, than the others.
For me makes sense, if that doesn´t make sense to you, I just have to respect that.

Sheers
Click to expand...

I guess I understood your sentence below wrong then? There maybe some language barrier though :(

FERNANDO GIL said:
I realy can´t tell.
The reason I think is cause cells tend to regenerate "helped" by good cells around her. So you will have help on the regeneration for the two sides.
Sheers
Click to expand...

Anyway, don't assume that hair cells act like "other cells". There is some many different kind of cells so I wouldn't compare anything to "other cells" without proper knowledge. I've been reading this thread for awhile and I have to say that if people start making up their own theories to support the already-questioned LLLT's - the credibility of the conversation and treatment will suffer. This is just my observation because I was kind of thinking about taking a trip to LLLT-clinic.

Experiences != Own theories.

Anyway I hope we get another success story when someone in the forum tries LLLT.
 
#835
Zechariah said:
Anyway I hope we get another success story when someone in the forum tries LLLT.
Click to expand...
There are more people in this fórum doing LLLT than you might think.

And trust me, you should do if you have a chance. Who knows maybe you can be the next "another success story when someone in the forum tries LLLT." If you don´t try, for sure you will never know. That is the only sure thing you have now.

We have to understand that money is a big part. But if you have a chance at least try it.

Sheers
 
#836
FERNANDO GIL said:
There are more people in this fórum doing LLLT than you might think.
Click to expand...

Hi, I believe you're the same person who mentioned the low cost IR devices a few pages ago, right? Could you do me a favor and sum up for me the steps I might want to follow, if I am interested in experimenting with this technology at a low cost point? Specifically, what kind of IR light I might want to buy, and how I'd go about using it?

Thanks, I really appreciate it. I know these questions have been answered earlier in this thread, but it's very long and intimidating to read all the way through.
 
#837
linearb said:
Hi, I believe you're the same person who mentioned the low cost IR devices a few pages ago, right? Could you do me a favor and sum up for me the steps I might want to follow, if I am interested in experimenting with this technology at a low cost point? Specifically, what kind of IR light I might want to buy, and how I'd go about using it?

Thanks, I really appreciate it. I know these questions have been answered earlier in this thread, but it's very long and intimidating to read all the way through.
Click to expand...
Hi @linearb

You can do LLLT with just a home laser or you can do it in a clinic, or the two at the same time, wich is what i´m doing. I think the best way is to start with a clinic sessions and some power sessions of laser, and then do the home laser. Times to times you should go back to the clinic, but that is expensive, unless you have some close to your house.

I know there is at least one clinic in Florida that does LLLT, I think someone in this fórum already give it´s contact.
Is an option for someone from the US. If you have the funds to go to the Anne Harilla in Norway, I would consider it seriousely. The travel costs is something you need to find by yourself, but the sessions at Anne clinic are 120 € / 4to 5 hours a day. You should do 5 days. But overal is no cheap at all.

Since i did start LLLT I did buy two devices. One from Dr Wilden 650nm/80mW and the cost was 1600 €, and last December I di buy the Lucky Laser. The Lucky Laser is made in China, but quality is good, the cost is 1500 Usd + 200 usa for transport, but that device is not FDA aproved, so you have a problem to get it inside the US. I know somenone is getting it from Canada, and other person is getting it as well ( but don´t know how).

I feel the best device you can have is the Lucky laser, you will have 2 probes and 2 diferente wavelenghts.
Maybe you can find some in the US, the other option is to buy Knoftec lasers, there quality is not so good as Lucky laser, but for what i was told, they work good at least for one year. Price wise is an option as well.

Hope I helped.

If possible share your audigram.


Sheers
 
#838
FERNANDO GIL said:
Hi @linearb
Hope I helped.
Click to expand...

Yes, thanks a lot for the detailed summary! It turns out I had you confused with someone else; the post I was thinking of is here: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/regeneration-of-the-cochlea-notch-inhibition-lllt-—-a-theoretical-approach.8418/#post-98073

I guess the theory there is that LED light in the same wavelength could have some version of the same effect; do you have any insight into that? At least one wound healing study seems to find efficiency in LED-LLLT; they are using a 830nm LED

edit: what about something like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Focusable-0...587?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbfcab4db
 

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