MuteButton

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#2,641
_Patrick_ said:
I never quite understood this perception thing. In my case, some tones in the right ear can flare up, or disappear. When they do (disappear), even if I lock myself in a quiet room and try to carefully listen and look for them, they are not there, purely and simply. In other cases (most of the time), they pierce through any loud masking audio I might have.

So there is an "objective" trait to those tones, they can or cannot be present, and when they are, they can be present at various degrees of intensity and volume
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If you really think about what has happened before the loud tinnitus days, I'm sure you will see a pattern. Not to jump off topic, but I believe in Dr. Rauschecker's theory of gating, in that our PFC plays a big part in the appearance of tinnitus. If I already have overactive neural activity, adding to that with extra neural activity (stress, anxiety, or even deep concentration) would just make the tinnitus louder.

That's why I believe in Neuromod. It uses 2 methods at the same time to force neural activity down. It makes perfect sense, and if this first iteration doesn't work, then other settings could or other contact sites (like the neck).

From a neuro student's aspect, this is quite fascinating.
 
#2,642
TimmyC said:
I'm not sure why Susan Shore made all those headlines last year,
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I believe that happened because she was the first to release a study that showed positive results for bimodal neuromodulation on humans. Other studies either weren't released yet (like Neuromod's), or weren't done on humans (but on rats etc). Her team's was the first that was on humans, was successful, and was released.
 
#2,643
Weren't there positive studies with vagus nerve stimulation before this? That's still looming out there but is getting less attention because of how invasive it is.
 
#2,644
Paulmanlike said:
@TimmyC

Who was it that came up with bimodal neuromodulation in the first place? From what I understand, Shore's work came from University of Michigan. The only difference I see between Shore and Lim is that Shore's is based on auditory and somatosensory neuromodulation whereas Lim's is auditory stimulation and trigeminal nerve stimulation. But both have the same alleged mechanism of action..
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Maybe a device that uses BOTH somatosensory neuromodulation AND trigeminal nerve stimulation (in addition to auditory) would be even more effective.
 
#2,646
Neuromod will be presenting in Arizona tomorrow at one of the Audiology conferences.

American Auditory Society, 46th Annual Scientific and Technology Meeting
February 28th - March 2nd, 2019, Scottsdale, Arizona, USA
Podium Session II: Tinnitus, Transfer Functions and Tursiops
Time: 2:25pm - 2:45pm
Date: Thursday, 28th February 2019
Title: Reproducible and Long-Term Efficacy of a New Treatment for Tinnitus
Hubert Lim, PhD, University of Minnesota, and Neuromod Devices Limited, Minneapolis, MN​

We probably won't hear much about it as they'll be displaying commercially sensitive information and as Dr. Ross O'Neill stated they don't want to undermine the peer review process.

I'll try and keep a lookout however if any new info comes about online.
 
#2,647
TimmyC said:
If you really think about what has happened before the loud tinnitus days, I'm sure you will see a pattern. Not to jump off topic, but I believe in Dr. Rauschecker's theory of gating, in that our PFC plays a big part in the appearance of tinnitus. If I already have overactive neural activity, adding to that with extra neural activity (stress, anxiety, or even deep concentration) would just make the tinnitus louder.

That's why I believe in Neuromod. It uses 2 methods at the same time to force neural activity down. It makes perfect sense, and if this first iteration doesn't work, then other settings could or other contact sites (like the neck).

From a neuro student's aspect, this is quite fascinating.
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Hi,

Are you a neuro student?
Paulmanlike said:
Neuromod will be presenting in Arizona tomorrow at one of the Audiology conferences.

American Auditory Society, 46th Annual Scientific and Technology Meeting
February 28th - March 2nd, 2019, Scottsdale, Arizona, USA
Podium Session II: Tinnitus, Transfer Functions and Tursiops
Time: 2:25pm - 2:45pm
Date: Thursday, 28th February 2019
Title: Reproducible and Long-Term Efficacy of a New Treatment for Tinnitus
Hubert Lim, PhD, University of Minnesota, and Neuromod Devices Limited, Minneapolis, MN​

We probably won't hear much about it as they'll be displaying commercially sensitive information and as Dr. Ross O'Neill stated they don't want to undermine the peer review process.

I'll try and keep a lookout however if any new info comes about online.
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Do we know yet when the peer review process is due to be complete?
 
#2,648
Dear Bob,

Unfortunately Neuromod is not in a position to make the device available to you at this time. I would like to reassure you once again that we are working very hard to bring the product to the market, and plan to provide an update soon.​
 
#2,650
Bob den Hartog said:
Dear Bob,

Unfortunately Neuromod is not in a position to make the device available to you at this time. I would like to reassure you once again that we are working very hard to bring the product to the market, and plan to provide an update soon.​
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What did you ask them?
 
#2,652
Bob den Hartog said:
Dear Bob,

Unfortunately Neuromod is not in a position to make the device available to you at this time. I would like to reassure you once again that we are working very hard to bring the product to the market, and plan to provide an update soon.​
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I'm starting to hate this word soon.
 
#2,653
I question if it is right to keep asking them when the device is going to be released. I am sure they are pushing hard as they can to help us and start making money. From my understanding they are a small company and I would rather them be working on getting this device out to the public rather than dealing with emails.
 
#2,657
Things what they are likely doing to get the device out SOON:

- Teaming up with partnerships (audiology outlets) to distribute the device
- Training relevant professionals how the device works and how to use
- Possibly waiting for the PEER REVIEW to be published, at least the TENT-A1. This would open up avenues to team up partnerships to distribute the device once people see the peer reviewed evidence. I can't see a reputable audiology outlet selling their product based on their 'word'
- The Chief Scientific Officer (Hubert Lim) amongst others are still doing presentations across the USA

I hope the update sheds some light on what they are doing. We already know they are presenting at major audiology conferences/finishing the TENT-A2 study/analysing data. Technically they could sell this thing tomorrow in Europe. But the question remains; what else are are they doing to get the product to us soon?
 
#2,658
Phi said:
Hi,

Are you a neuro student?
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I am not, I'm in Digital Tech and Communication (currently a senior at university, almost done!)

However I am friends with a few neuroscience majors and I tell them about this device often, and I have been looking into this tech since I got tinnitus & hyperacusis and have learned SO MUCH about the way our brains are working. In all honesty it's very fascinating. It seems so simple yet so complicated.

One thing I can gather is everyone still knows very little about the brain, BUT, we are accelerating at an insane rate towards understanding thanks to AI and machine learning. There is real fear that AI will take over doctors in my lifetime, once computational power increases.
 
#2,659
PeterPan said:
Maybe a device that uses BOTH somatosensory neuromodulation AND trigeminal nerve stimulation (in addition to auditory) would be even more effective.
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Possibly, but over stimulation would probably be much more likely at that point.

Given the limited evidence we have here (rat studies galore, but pretty few human explorations until we get the hard TENT-A data) the best way to do this is simply audio (for DCN) and 1 other site point for stimulus.

I think in the future we will have better site points for sub-types. That will be super fascinating.

Imagine if this worked for Phantom Limb Pain as well? Neuromodulation has a lot of potential effects.
 
#2,660
Paulmanlike said:
Neuromod will be presenting in Arizona tomorrow at one of the Audiology conferences.

American Auditory Society, 46th Annual Scientific and Technology Meeting
February 28th - March 2nd, 2019, Scottsdale, Arizona, USA
Podium Session II: Tinnitus, Transfer Functions and Tursiops
Time: 2:25pm - 2:45pm
Date: Thursday, 28th February 2019
Title: Reproducible and Long-Term Efficacy of a New Treatment for Tinnitus
Hubert Lim, PhD, University of Minnesota, and Neuromod Devices Limited, Minneapolis, MN​

We probably won't hear much about it as they'll be displaying commercially sensitive information and as Dr. Ross O'Neill stated they don't want to undermine the peer review process.

I'll try and keep a lookout however if any new info comes about online.
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This.

They do not want to undermine the peer review process, and also keep in mind, they are one of the few if not the only company to seek peer review for a tinnitus treatment.

Think about it from their perspective; it is not a good idea to just randomly release all your data, your price points and launch dates without having backing from the experts and companies in the field.

They need to spread the word in the community before doing it commercially. Also, they are doing CE modules at these conferences, so they are confident enough to teach this.

A company that has everything to lose on 1 product needs to do everything perfect, so it makes sense that we have not heard anything. People who ran their mouths off at the gate (I would assume like ACRN) didn't get very far.

I think this lack of information is a good thing. When they are advertising, they will have peer reviews, and leading experts behind them.
 
#2,661
kelpiemsp said:
Yup, it's still there just not nearly as loud or intrusive! I know that my trial was based on Lim's work which went to Neuromod. I have met one other University of Minnesota person that has a continued effect, and it seems there are some Neuromod as well.

The literature actually suggests change can be permanent, and that efficiency becomes nearly exponential.
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kelpiemsp said:
I hear it with my head against the pillow. Or when my TMJ acts up, but otherwise it's minimal.
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Do you think you might experience further benefits if you spend more time using the device? In other words, do you plan to buy the device to see whether it might get you to hear silence again?
 
#2,662
AliceW said:
Ok @kelpiemsp I hope MuteButton will be efficient on central tinnitus and other causes.

In France we don't have many treatments for eustachian tube diseases... I will make some tests soon to find what my problem is. But I think my eustachian tube stays open most of the time... my ears get blocked, especially in some specific situations... During sports... etc.. I also have TMJ issues...

I have pain to high frequency sounds and sometimes when I speak my right ear is painful.

I think this eustachian tube disorder contributed to the acoustic shock...

@kelpiemsp, now you do not have eustachian tube problems anymore?
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All of my eustachian tube issues were caused by TMJ. This is likely the case if you have ruled out allergies. My ETD and constant aural fullness are much better when I take care of my TMJ.
 
#2,665
When Neuromod talk about different sub types of tinnitus what do they mean?

When I think of different sub types I think subjective, objective, pulsatile.

But as Neuromod is aimed at subjective tinnitus, I assume they are talking about different sub types of subjective tinnitus.

What are they? Do they mean the different noises/the different causes/how severe it is etc?
 
#2,667
Bill Bauer said:
Can someone please tell me why the original device was pulled?
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It was pulled because they hadn't done the full scale study required for med device approval, as well as limited resources at the time. No one wants to invest in something that isn't proven.
 
#2,668
Bill Bauer said:
Do you think you might experience further benefits if you spend more time using the device? In other words, do you plan to buy the device to see whether it might get you to hear silence again?
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I do. I won't buy this device though, I think in a year's time the US market will see a better one. I'm fine until then.
 
#2,669
kelpiemsp said:
I do. I won't buy this device though, I think in a year's time the US market will see a better one. I'm fine until then.
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Well nothing else is in development and if it was, there are no large scale clinical trials to back it up.

Only other thing I see in the next 3-5 years is Shore's device.
 
#2,670
Paulmanlike said:
Well nothing else is in development and if it was, there are no large scale clinical trials to back it up.

Only other thing I see in the next 3-5 years is Shore's device.
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Well, that's kind of debatable though isn't it? If this device proves to be a big push forward for tinnitus, then I can imagine many other biotech companies wanting a piece of the pie. So who knows, maybe in the next 5 years we will have a plethora of tinnitus devices. So many companies are investing in medical tech, it's insane.
 
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