MuteButton

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#3,062
linearb said:
I don't think this is an accurate read for a number of reasons:

* there's a bunch of stuff in that Reddit post that I'm skeptical of, and I don't think he visited Shore's lab. I did, and they told me they were very aware of MuteButton (as Neuromod was called at the time).

Also their reaction was a lot more "there are several teams working on similar ideas, we don't know which will be the most effective but we certainly hope one of them is, and of course we'd like it to be ours".

* my interactions with them led me to believe that basically everyone in that lab was motivated by helping people with tinnitus, not trying to get rich.

* Susan Shore doesn't actually have nearly as much on the line here as Neuromod. She's an established, respected, tenured professor who has published a ton of well-cited work. Her $150,000 salary is guaranteed and not affected if the device fails. On the other hand, Neuromod is running on fumes and venture capital cash, and if they implode they'll all need to find new jobs.

Anyway I think this is as far a dissection as I need to do of something we have third hand from Reddit which may or may not have ever happened. It seems to me like people on this forum are really jumpy and paranoid about trying to find hidden motives for things.

I'm not really suspicious of any of it -- I've been to Shore's lab a lot, nothing set off my spider sense. If Neuromod were trying to fleece and run, well, they've had approval to sell for years and they could have just dumped a ton of devices onto the market in ~6 months, said "it takes 6 months of use to see the effect!" and then retired to an island. They didn't.
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"She's an established, respected, tenured professor"

I've never known a professor that wasn't a narcissist.

This isn't about money, it's about her ego.
 
#3,064
Bndsmheowqhe said:
"Are you familiar with your competitor's device?"
Adult response:
"There are several companies working with similar technologies but we feel our approach will be more effective."
Shore's response:
"Never heard of them."
She's definitely threatened by it.
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If she were serious about this and felt threatened don't you think there'd be some evidence that she's picking up the pace to catch up? To me it paints a portrait of someone with a very low level of investment/enthusiasm. It's hard for us, as tinnitus sufferers, to relate to such apathy, but there ARE life-long academics who are more interested in surfing on tenure than actually accomplishing something meaningful in the world. If she doesn't want to be classified as one, all she has to do is pick up the pace. I don't buy the idea things are moving slowly purely for budgetary reasons.
 
#3,065
GlennS said:
If she were serious about this and felt threatened don't you think there'd be some evidence that she's picking up the pace to catch up? To me it paints a portrait of someone with a very low level of investment/enthusiasm. It's hard for us, as tinnitus sufferers, to relate to such apathy, but there ARE life-long academics who are more interested in surfing on tenure than actually accomplishing something meaningful in the world. If she doesn't want to be classified as one, all she has to do is pick up the pace. I don't buy the idea things are moving slowly purely for budgetary reasons.
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I think she was living in a comfortable little bubble and now the reality of someone else's device coming to market has shattered that illusion. This was going to be her significant life accomplishment and now someone else has come along and stolen her thunder.
 
#3,067
Bndsmheowqhe said:
"She's an established, respected, tenured professor"

I've never known a professor that wasn't a narcissist.

This isn't about money, it's about her ego.
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You're sitting in judgement of someone you've never met based on your preconstructed notions of what someone in that vocation is like. That's the height of arrogance. Susan has been very compassionate and responsive to me in email, so, go jump in a lake?

As far as "ego", yes, innovators and inventors often like to be recognized for their work, often to the point of at least mild detriment, but if the world was free of people who innovated for personal gain, we'd probably still be living in trees.

Bndsmheowqhe said:
I think she was living in a comfortable little bubble and now the reality of someone else's device coming to market has shattered that illusion. This was going to be her significant life accomplishment and now someone else has come along and stolen her thunder.
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Actually the funniest thing I've read all week, thanks :) <3

As far as "significant life accomplishments" -- she's already there, she's got her name all over work that has completely redefined the neurological model of tinnitus over the last 1-2 decades. Uh, what have you done with your life that's so great? If you're sitting here just pooping on the reputation of a really helpful tinnitus researcher out of malice, I'd like to know what qualifies you to be doing anything more important than repeatedly sticking your foot in your mouth on here, thx
 
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#3,068
If you are referring to the Reddit post that I linked in the Michigan thread he/she did not actually visit Susan Shore, but rather Dr. Larry Roberts at McMaster University. Apparently, he is trialing Shore's device for her in Canada. I am no longer able to edit the post. Possibly Dr. Roberts may not know about Neuromod, but I am sure Susan Shore does.

It is possible that Neuromod may be good for non-somatic tinnitus, Shore may work best for somatic tinnitus, and Minnesota may be the best out of the bunch. We really don't know. I will gladly zap myself silly with all of them if it helps, even if I gain a third arm.
 
#3,069
linearb said:
You're sitting in judgement of someone you've never met based on your preconstructed notions of what someone in that vocation is like. That's the height of arrogance. Susan has been very compassionate and responsive to me in email, so, go jump in a lake?

As far as "ego", yes, innovators and inventors often like to be recognized for their work, often to the point of at least mild detriment, but if the world was free of people who innovated for personal gain, we'd probably still be living in trees.

Actually the funniest thing I've read all week, thanks :) <3

As far as "significant life accomplishments" -- she's already there, she's got her name all over work that has completely redefined the neurological model of tinnitus over the last 1-2 decades. Uh, what have you done with your life that's so great? Usually I don't ad-hom people, but I feel like if you're sitting here just shitting on the reputation of a really helpful tinnitus researcher out of pure hubris and malice, I'd like to know what qualifies you to be doing anything more important than repeatedly sticking your foot in your mouth on here, thx
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That's quite a monologue you've prepared. Your passion has swayed me.

I now realize that St. Shore is a completely selfless, compassionate human being and in no way is driven by the grandiose sense of self that every other academic that's ever existed has displayed. I'm sure she's thrilled that someone else has come along and threatened to steal her glory with what she likely views as an inferior product. I'm certain that she's 100% okay with that and it doesn't in any way bother her because rigid older women are known for being easy going and carefree about things like that. Thank you for helping me to see the light.
 
#3,073
Just my 2 cents - I had a brief email correspondence with Dr. Shore in last January after the study's release and she has been kind to me and very responsive. Just one point of contact but she definitely didn't come across as cold or uncaring. Quite the opposite.
 
#3,074
Bam said:
Just being honest but when I literally begged her for help her response couldn't have been more ruthlessly cold.
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Why does it seem those who are working on viable treatments are the least interested in getting it to us quickly?

Every day is an uphill battle and every major player seems to be radio silent.

Just ranting now, this is frustrating.
 
#3,075
Susan Shore has been very nice to us as well - always responds quickly and puts time and thought into her responses. Uncaring and cold are pretty much the last adjectives I'd describe her with.
 
#3,077
Bam said:
Just being honest but when I literally begged her for help her response couldn't have been more ruthlessly cold.
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I am sorry to hear that; probably in the iterim as her research picked up news articles she became increasingly overwhelmed with inquires. I will say she was always pretty quick to delegate my communication to her underlings, but, shit, I do the same thing in my professional life whenever possible.

Bndsmheowqhe said:
That's quite a monologue you've prepared. Your passion has swayed me.

I now realize that St. Shore is a completely selfless, compassionate human being and in no way is driven by the grandiose sense of self that every other academic that's ever existed has displayed. I'm sure she's thrilled that someone else has come along and threatened to steal her glory with what she likely views as an inferior product. I'm certain that she's 100% okay with that and it doesn't in any way bother her because rigid older women are known for being easy going and carefree about things like that. Thank you for helping me to see the light.
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You're still making baseless accusations about someone you don't know based on your rather hostile seeming views of academia, but now you're mixing in a little casual bigotry towards older women. Nice, stay classy!

The seething anger in your posts continues to confuse me.
 
#3,078
linearb said:
I am sorry to hear that; probably in the iterim as her research picked up news articles she became increasingly overwhelmed with inquires. I will say she was always pretty quick to delegate my communication to her underlings, but, shit, I do the same thing in my professional life whenever possible.
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Yeah it's no biggie. It was a shot in the dark and I was surprised she even responded. More than anything I was hoping to just impress on her that we could do with her getting a shuffle on and actually turn all this research into a lifesaving product.
 
#3,079
linearb said:
I am sorry to hear that; probably in the iterim as her research picked up news articles she became increasingly overwhelmed with inquires. I will say she was always pretty quick to delegate my communication to her underlings, but, shit, I do the same thing in my professional life whenever possible.

You're still making baseless accusations about someone you don't know based on your rather hostile seeming views of academia, but now you're mixing in a little casual bigotry towards older women. Nice, stay classy!

The seething anger in your posts continues to confuse me.
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She denied knowing about the existence of a competitor's product. There was clearly a reason for that. We can speculate as to what that reason was but it is at the very least a peculiar response.

I've known some great people in academia but it is a profession that tends to attract narcissists. I'm certainly not the first person to make that observation. Maybe that's a part of what makes them good at what they do. Steve Jobs was an enormous narcissist but he was also extremely productive. Sometimes being a narcissist is a good thing. That being said, I'm sure he wasn't thrilled when he found out that Microsoft beat him to market with Windows.

"little casual bigotry towards older women."

I said "rigid older women." And yes, in my experience, rigid older women tend to be...rigid. Kudos for the virtue signaling though. That clearly makes you a good person.

"The seething anger in your posts continues to confuse me"

Please continue to be a passive aggressive t**t. That's so much more dignified.
 
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#3,080
Bndsmheowqhe said:
The seething anger in your posts continues to confuse me"
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For what it's worth I'm not confused by it. I cannot imagine a better reason on earth to be seething with anger than having a fucking non stop noise in your own head that will only stop when you're dead.
 
#3,081
For a product that hasn't released any data about it or a release date, we all sure do know a lot. Lol.

We can argue all we want, but until we have the facts it's all conjecture.

It helps pass the time, but if we are getting hostile we should probably take a step back.
 
#3,083
Bndsmheowqhe said:
She denied knowing about the existence of a competitor's product. There was clearly a reason for that. We can speculate as to what that reason was but it is at the very least a peculiar response.

I've known some great people in academia but it is a profession that tends to attract narcissists. I'm certainly not the first person to make that observation. Maybe that's a part of what makes them good at what they do. Steve Jobs was an enormous narcissist but he was also extremely productive. Sometimes being a narcissist is a good thing. That being said, I'm sure he wasn't thrilled when he found out that Microsoft beat him to market with Windows.

"little casual bigotry towards older women."

I said "rigid older women." And yes, in my experience, rigid older women tend to be...rigid. Kudos for the virtue signaling though. That clearly makes you a good person.

"The seething anger in your posts continues to confuse me"

Please continue to be a passive aggressive t**t. That's so much more dignified.
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Susan Shore NEVER denied knowing about Neuromod. The Reddit user who posted the thread said the person who did the screening at McMaster University did NOT know of Neuromod.

ARE YOU ALL DENSE?
 
#3,085
Bndsmheowqhe said:
She denied knowing about the existence of a competitor's product.
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[citation needed]

You're extrapolating this from a Reddit post from someone who has never been to Susan Shore's lab or spoken to her.

I have been to Susan Shore's lab. Her technicians were very aware of Neuromod, and that was 3 years ago.
 
#3,087
linearb said:
[citation needed]

You're extrapolating this from a Reddit post from someone who has never been to Susan Shore's lab or spoken to her.

I have been to Susan Shore's lab. Her technicians were very aware of Neuromod, and that was 3 years ago.
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Either way it's irrelevant to the final product. I believe that her tech is probably superior to Neuromod's but that still doesn't mean that she's happy about them beating her to market.
 
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