My Posting Place

#11,341
linearb said:
I have no opinion on Lenire.

The University of Michigan device significantly reduced my tinnitus after 2 weeks of use with no negative side effects, and it stayed significantly reduced for the two weeks which I continued to use the device. It was confirmed through objective volume matching in a sound-proof room at the UMich lab, that the actual volume of my tinnitus (and that of a number of other test subjects) had been reduced. The initial study was small, but double blinded, and the results were peer reviewed after aggregation before I was told anything (and are all very available now, if you look through Pubmed / scihub).

As far as "how" bimodal is supposed to work, there's really no mystery there either, because this was developed as a ground-up technology, meaning they induced tinnitus in animals, observed specific neuroplastic changes in a particular brain region, and developed a technology to (temporarily) reverse those changes by exploiting what we understand about spike-timing dependent plasticity.

This video is six years old now, but is still the best thing I have found as far as explaining what this stuff actually is and how it works



Note that when this video was recorded, this had only been demonstrated in lab animals. In 2014 we had a "phase zero" preclinical work where a bunch of lab techs with tinnitus who happened to be involved with the lab, zapped themselves with the device and said "yeah we think this works, let's do a phase I", and then a phase I was conducted.

The conclusion of the phase I, in general was:
* no one was harmed
* some people showed no benefit as measured by a reduction in tinnitus volume or self-reported annoyance
* some people showed a moderate benefit as measured by same
* some people showed a significant benefit as measured by same

Unlike Leniere, I do not believe any of the UMich Phase-I people said their tinnitus "went away". Also unlike Lenire, the overall response rate and overall impact is more modest. Also unlike Lenire, they have published real papers that show some of the sausage making behind their little aurdino beep zap box, which makes me think they're more likely to be operating in good faith than Neuromod, even if that is hardly a guarantee of success.

Here is UMich's Phase I:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29298868



7-8 dB average actual volume reduction as measured in a lab is nothing to sneeze at, that gets close to halving the volume (which more or less aligns with my experience).

I have no idea if this thing will work for you, or any other particular person, but I do know that if someone offered me the experimental device I used in the trial tomorrow for $15,000 -- I would loot my savings/retirement as needed without blinking. On the other hand, I have thus far resisted the urge to try Lenire for a third of that money.
Click to expand...

Didn't even realise you were in the Michigan trial too.

Only person I know is @kelpiemsp.

I know you said you used the device for 2 weeks and it reduced your tinnitus. Did it reduce it even more after those 2 weeks?
 
#11,342
Lucifer said:
Didn't even realise you were in the Michigan trial too.

Only person I know is @kelpiemsp.

I know you said you used the device for 2 weeks and it reduced your tinnitus. Did it reduce it even more after those 2 weeks?
Click to expand...
@kelpiemsp tested a slightly different device and protocol in a related study at the University of Minnisota, as I recall.

My experience was that after 2 weeks the tinnitus became much less of an issue, and so I stopped thinking about it nearly as much. I want to say the effect sort of plateaued after 3 weeks, but, it's hard to say what might have happened if I'd been able to use it for 8 weeks, or 12, instead of just 4.
 
#11,343
first-things-first-357885.jpg
 
#11,345
AquaKane said:
I increased my Ginko dosage today and now have a pulsation spike. In rhythm with my pulse.
Hope it wears off soon.
Click to expand...
I just went back onto Gingko and I feel sure my low frequency pulsatile tinnitus has been louder too.

It's been spiked a few times in the 12 years I've had it but I never figured out the causes. Could be useful information.
 
#11,346
linearb said:
@kelpiemsp tested a slightly different device and protocol in a related study at the University of Minnisota, as I recall.

My experience was that after 2 weeks the tinnitus became much less of an issue, and so I stopped thinking about it nearly as much. I want to say the effect sort of plateaued after 3 weeks, but, it's hard to say what might have happened if I'd been able to use it for 8 weeks, or 12, instead of just 4.
Click to expand...
When did you do the trial?
 
#11,347
@Michael Leigh what is wrong with you? why are you recommending people get microsuction and tympanograms if their doctor recommends it? you know just as well as I do that people get damage to their hearing from both. Aren't you anti-headphones?
 
#11,349
JohnAdams said:
@Michael Leigh what is wrong with you? why are you recommending people get microsuction and tympanograms if their doctor recommends it? you know just as well as I do that people get damage to their hearing from both. Aren't you anti-headphones?
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with me. You have had tinnitus for 5 minutes, I have had it considerably longer. The advice you are giving to @Adrianfox is wrong and if he goes into ENT with your attitude, it is the best way to rub doctors and other health professionals up the wrong way. Showing arrogance and telling people how to do their job, who are professionals and trying to help you is not the best way forward.

A lot of people that have microsuction, ear irrigation and develop problems, are not informed of the correct procedure before having wax removed. That is to apply eardrops to each ear 3x a day for 10 days to thoroughly loosen the wax. I would always recommend a person has microsuction done at a hospital not at a walk in clinic.

There is nothing wrong with Tympanograms for I have had the procedure many times over 23 years and never had a problem. With respect you are promoting negativity in this forum and that does not help people like Adrian. Shooting from the hip and have absolutely no long term experience dealing with tinnitus.

Michael
 
#11,362
Michael Leigh said:
As I have said, you are not a serious contributor to this forum....
Click to expand...
So you keep saying. Ad hominem attacks without any stated basis are a logical fallacy.

https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_...logic_in_argumentative_writing/fallacies.html

One thing I have noticed with @JohnAdams -- he has shown a willingness to change his opinion or his thinking based on new evidence or information. I can find various examples of this. One thing I have noticed about you is that you prefer to just copy/paste the same tired, incorrect scaremongering information (which is in some cases quite dangerous) -- and you seem to have no ability to change your set-in-Jastreboff-Stone ideas.

So, you "contribute" to this forum, in terms of words -- but I'd say your net effect here is... negative. But we still love you, don't worry.
 
#11,363
Agree.

@Michael Leigh is a damn stubborn person on a tiresome loop, totally incapable changing his opinion on matters even if evidence shows otherwise.

I'm probably already ignored by him, as he ignores everyone who he doesn't agree with...
 
#11,364
ajc said:
Agree.

@Michael Leigh is a damn stubborn person on a tiresome loop, totally incapable changing his opinion on matters even if evidence shows otherwise.

I'm probably already ignored by him, as he ignores everyone who he doesn't agree with...
Click to expand...

I like your post @ajc it has made me laugh. Fear not as you haven't been placed on ignore yet.....

Michael
 
#11,370
Jack Straw said:
View attachment 32739
Click to expand...
by "specific people", do you mean the people that are negative about

* anyone who uses headphones, or plays live music, etc
* anyone who disagrees with anything they believe to be dogma
* anyone who tries to challenge their irrational ideas with evidence-based data
* anyone who objects to the basic practice of copypasta of huge word-salad dumps that contain a bunch of unsubstantiated ideas?

?

If so, I quite agree.
 

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