My Posting Place

[weab00]

If you have to believe in it, it isn't science.

In any case, is this argument about the need to protect one's ears, if one gets tinnitus or hyperacusis spikes following being exposed to noise?

Okay, let me rephrase, he himself does not think that researchers are valuable to these conditions and would rather continue using TRT methods from the 90s.

The argument is about the amalgamation of all stupidity he's ever spread on Tinnitus Talk. But this one started with him denying the existence of reactive tinnitus.

 

[Born To Slay]

If you have to believe in it, it isn't science.

In any case, is this argument about the need to protect one's ears, if one gets tinnitus or hyperacusis spikes following being exposed to noise?

I beg to differ. You can say you don't believe the sky is blue and deny that fact and call it green. That doesn't make it unscientific.

The exact argument though was about reactive tinnitus.

 

[Zugzug]

 

[Bill Bauer]

he himself does not think that researchers are valuable to these conditions and would rather continue using TRT methods from the 90s.

Thus far no method has been shown to reliably help tinnitus sufferers. This means that right now there is no cure.

Some people report feeling better following TRT. (Personally I can't image it working for me, and this is why I never looked into it, but that also means that I have a very vague idea of what it is.)

What's wrong with letting the sufferers of a disease that right now doesn't have a cure know about a method that helps some small, but not insignificant, fraction of the people who try it?

 

[Contrast]

View attachment 41877

Is that the device that Leigh thinks can regenerate hair cells?

 

[weab00]

Thus far no method has been shown to reliably help tinnitus sufferers. This means that right now there is no cure.

Some people report feeling better following TRT. (Personally I can't image it working for me, and this is why I never looked into it, but that also means that I have a very vague idea of what it is.)

What's wrong with letting the sufferers of a disease that right now doesn't have a cure know about a method that helps some small, but not insignificant, fraction of the people who try it?

Our main gripe with Michael is that he dismisses research. Literally scroll up on the thread. People are free to choose whatever modality they wish, but TRT has been proven clinically ineffective for noxacusis, not to mention to Jastreboff doesn't even distinguish between pain and loudness hyperacusis.

Michael speaks as if he's an authority on the subject, when he's just drawing from his individual experience, yet he likes to frame himself as somehow knowing better than the experts.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Our main gripe with Michael is that he dismisses research.

Until there are posts here where people report success after success for a new treatment, we are to assume that there is no cure. If you look at the posts made during the first year or two after this forum got started, people were also discussing promising research back then. There are countless studies reporting that they cure mice that have cancer. There is an abyss between a study and an affordable treatment available to everyone.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Our main gripe with Michael is that he dismisses research

When I first got tinnitus 24 years ago I thought like you that doctors and tinnitus researchers knew all there is to know about tinnitus. Looked to the BTA as and thought the same. Subscribed to their quarterly journal Quiet, and couldn't wait to read the latest research and findings for treating tinnitus. Experience has taught me a lot. Many in this forum and others I attend, give a sentimental reverence to these people that they don't deserve.

I have said many times and know this to be truth: ENT doctors are physicians, not tinnitus experts. They treat underlying medical conditions within the auditory system that cause tinnitus but they don't treat the condition. My Audiovestibular Consultant, whom I have a lot of respect for and a good rapport with, told me that I know more about tinnitus than her, because she has never experienced it. The same applies to many of these researchers and scientists that you and others look up to in awe. Most of them have never experienced noise induced tinnitus and if they have, it's likely to be mild. They have no real experience of this condition and that's the only way you can learn about it.

Tinnitus was first documented by Egyptians so it has been around for a long time. Many people are looking for the silver bullet, a pill that's going to cure the condition. I have nothing against research into tinnitus but I'm not going to put all my faith in it and denounce treatments like CBT, TRT, Sound Therapy, Counselling, Medication and say they are ineffective and out of date when I see no new treatments to replace them.

I have never called or referred to myself as expert in tinnitus or hyperacusis. I only advise on noise induced tinnitus with or without hyperacusis. I regard myself as someone that has acquired experience in these conditions and corresponded with people at various forums, by email and counsel people by telephone.

You recently started a thread in this forum, saying that your computer is making your tinnitus spike when you're close to it. I was able to advise that it's probably the whine/noise from the computer hard drive and internal fan that is causing the problem as I've experienced a similar thing. You won't find this mentioned in any tinnitus research papers.

The way forward with tinnitus is first to deal with the mindset and I have written many posts on this. Veterans and those seasoned to tinnitus know this to be true. To try and incorporate positivity into one's life. Those that choose to bask in the realms of negativity and pour their heart out every day waiting for the cure maybe waiting for a very long time. Instead of embracing treatments that are currently available such as TRT, CBT, Counselling, Sound Therapy, Medication.

Michael

 

[weab00]

Until there are posts here where people report success after success for a new treatment, we are to assume that there is no cure. If you look at the posts made during the first year or two after this forum got started, people were also discussing promising research back then. There are countless studies reporting that they cure mice that have cancer. There is an abyss between a study and an affordable treatment available to everyone.

So? Research is not a linear process, it builds on itself. We take old things that didn't work and refine them. And there are plenty of anecdotes in humans in the FX-322 trials whose tinnitus reduced, so we're basing our conjecture on a bit more than animal models. I agree there is no cure right now, people are welcome to explore alternative treatment routes. They do need to temper their expectations from the messiah hyperacusis "cure" that is sound therapy that many charlatans infect this community with.

 

[Liam_Cairns]

I will always engage with someone that shows manners and respect. I have said it before and I will say it again so it is abundantly clear. I'm not here to engage in a slanging match because that's not who I am.

Michael

Man the problem with you Michael is that you are so unbelievably stubborn in your beliefs and it doesn't matter how much empirical evidence you are shown you somehow become even more resolved in your ignorant and sometimes destructive beliefs.

A perfect example of this is how microsuction is incredibly dangerous and there are countless empirically reviewed solid research articles that reinforce this point and yet you preach about how safe it is.

And yet you say that using headphones is the worst thing you can possibly do no matter how loud it is, which has 0 evidence to support it, also think about this the WNG that both you and I wear generate noise into our ear canal how is that different from a headphone, there is no difference.

Is it that you are just not educated enough to understand how research articles work or how to interpret data and make sense of whether or not an article has any merit to it by looking for things such as confounding variables?

I am not entirely sure what your problem is and why you are so unbelievably stuck in your ways but I am so sick of seeing you on this website.

I realize this is probably cyberbullying, but people have a limit and I have reached my fucking limit.

 

[bill 112]

Have to say reading this thread gave me one hell of a laugh, after all these years there's actually still dudes trying to convince people that a magic noise box is the answer? It's as primitive as can be, may as well put leeches on cancer patients and tell them they'll be fine in two weeks once the leech sucks all the cancer out.

And Michael Leigh I'm not having a go at your character but you've been indoctrinated into the church of Jastrebroff and now you're being one of his disciples spreading nonsense from a dusty old book that serves no purpose in the modern world, science and research is what is needed in the name of progress not a 1990's spec fartbox that squirts little sprinkles of fairy noise into your ears.

Only reason I've survived the last nearly 5 years is by doing the complete opposite of what Jastrebroff teaches. At my last neurologist appointment a few years back I met a different neurologist who began reading me the whole Jastrebroff model concept like it was on a script in front of him, I stopped him mid sentence, got up and walked out. Ignorant I know but so is thinking you have all the answers.

The reality is we don't have any answers, only clues, and it's science that will have the best chance at piecing those clues together, not notions.

 

[Bartoli]

@Michael Leigh's keyboard.

Could not not post this.

 

[Michael Leigh]

And Michael Leigh I'm not having a go at your character but you've been indoctrinated into the church of Jastrebroff

You are entitled to your opinions and they are water off a duck's back as far as I'm concerned.

Hope you are keeping well as I haven't seen you around for a long time.

All the best
Michael

 

[bill 112]

You are entitled to your opinions and they are water off a duck's back as far as I'm concerned.

Hope you are keeping well as I haven't seen you around for a long time.

All the best
Michael

But that's the thing Michael, my opinion is coming from bitter experience and experience being that I too was led down that Jastrebroff route and I got better and then worsened severely and then when I couldn't get better or explained my pain and reactive tinnitus they shrugged it off and basically said "impossible" based off of nothing, nothing concrete at all apart from a theory and you were led out the door.

It was a while after this that I realized I got better simply because I got better but happened to be doing TRT which then took the credit for improvement that was coming anyway.

I agree CBT and meds are useful and careful exposing to sound can help people understand their new tolerances but this idea that it actively treats the underlying condition and thus improves it is deeply flawed. Not to mention the model Jastrebroff bases his theory off of is based on guesswork most of which has been disproven as of late i.e. no pain fibers in the ear etc.

I'll leave it there Michael, good to see you're doing well too.

 

[Bartoli]

I stopped him mid sentence, got up and walked out.

That's badass.

 

[bill 112]

That's badass.

When you get tired of people telling you the wrong answer is actually the correct answer you just lose your patience with it over time lol, that and he talked down to me like he was the grand master when in reality he knew absolutely nothing apart from what was on the script in front of him.

 

[Contrast]

@Zugzug

 

[Contrast]

https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/

 

[Phendran]

Sorry for snapping at you.

Hello Pete. :3

Good to see you're still with us.
I hope you're doing alright despite everything.

 

[Liam_Cairns]

Have to say reading this thread gave me one hell of a laugh, after all these years there's actually still dudes trying to convince people that a magic noise box is the answer? It's as primitive as can be, may as well put leeches on cancer patients and tell them they'll be fine in two weeks once the leech sucks all the cancer out.

And Michael Leigh I'm not having a go at your character but you've been indoctrinated into the church of Jastrebroff and now you're being one of his disciples spreading nonsense from a dusty old book that serves no purpose in the modern world, science and research is what is needed in the name of progress not a 1990's spec fartbox that squirts little sprinkles of fairy noise into your ears.

Only reason I've survived the last nearly 5 years is by doing the complete opposite of what Jastrebroff teaches. At my last neurologist appointment a few years back I met a different neurologist who began reading me the whole Jastrebroff model concept like it was on a script in front of him, I stopped him mid sentence, got up and walked out. Ignorant I know but so is thinking you have all the answers.

The reality is we don't have any answers, only clues, and it's science that will have the best chance at piecing those clues together, not notions.

Like WNGs have helped me a lot with my hyperacusis and tinnitus, but I feel like I am honestly the minority.

 

[weab00]

When I first got tinnitus 24 years ago I thought like you that doctors and tinnitus researchers knew all there is to know about tinnitus. Looked to the BTA as and thought the same. Subscribed to their quarterly journal Quiet, and couldn't wait to read the latest research and findings for treating tinnitus. Experience has taught me a lot. Many in this forum and others I attend, give a sentimental reverence to these people that they don't deserve.

I have said many times and know this to be truth: ENT doctors are physicians, not tinnitus experts. They treat underlying medical conditions within the auditory system that cause tinnitus but they don't treat the condition. My Audiovestibular Consultant, whom I have a lot of respect for and a good rapport with, told me that I know more about tinnitus than her, because she has never experienced it. The same applies to many of these researchers and scientists that you and others look up to in awe. Most of them have never experienced noise induced tinnitus and if they have, it's likely to be mild. They have no real experience of this condition and that's the only way you can learn about it.

Tinnitus was first documented by Egyptians so it has been around for a long time. Many people are looking for the silver bullet, a pill that's going to cure the condition. I have nothing against research into tinnitus but I'm not going to put all my faith in it and denounce treatments like CBT, TRT, Sound Therapy, Counselling, Medication and say they are ineffective and out of date when I see no new treatments to replace them.

I have never called or referred to myself as expert in tinnitus or hyperacusis. I only advise on noise induced tinnitus with or without hyperacusis. I regard myself as someone that has acquired experience in these conditions and corresponded with people at various forums, by email and counsel people by telephone.

You recently started a thread in this forum, saying that your computer is making your tinnitus spike when you're close to it. I was able to advise that it's probably the whine/noise from the computer hard drive and internal fan that is causing the problem as I've experienced a similar thing. You won't find this mentioned in any tinnitus research papers.

The way forward with tinnitus is first to deal with the mindset and I have written many posts on this. Veterans and those seasoned to tinnitus know this to be true. To try and incorporate positivity into one's life. Those that choose to bask in the realms of negativity and pour their heart out every day waiting for the cure maybe waiting for a very long time. Instead of embracing treatments that are currently available such as TRT, CBT, Counselling, Sound Therapy, Medication.

Michael

Wow Michael, that's a whole lot more of words to say a whole lot of nothing. You've extended your hatred beyond ENTs and audiologists and are now giving researchers like Pollard a bad wrap "I have idea who this Bryan Pollard figure and there's nothing he can't already tell me about tinnitus."

Embrace the future buddy, because you're going to be left in the dust.

I think your problem is because of the fact that you've had tinnitus for so long, you put yourself on a pedestal.

Thanks for the advice in the computer thread buddy, but that doesn't change your misinformed opinions at all. In fact, you were criticizing one user for not understanding what it's like to have extreme sound sensitivity like "me and weeab00" in one thread and telling me I was self-diagnosing misophonia in another. Which is it???

H Y P O C R I T E.

Respectively @lightning you have no clue what Weab00 or I are talking about because if you did then you wouldn't write your post. I know what Weaboo is talking about it has nothing to do with actual noise as such, it is to do with the Ultra oversensitivity

However, reading your posts I don't see where you have been to any hospital or clinic for a thorough evaluation of your condition and yet you've come up with a diagnoses of having noxacusis, I'm impressed. This is the danger of reading up information online about tinnitus and hyperacusis.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Thank you for your comments @weab00. I appreciate you have addressed me by name and that I respect.

It was never my intention to express hatred towards ENT doctors or Audiologists for I've had a few caring for me over 24 years and have immense respect for them. In particular, my current Audiovestibular Consultant that I get along extremely well with and will never forget how she helped me when I reached my lowest ebb with tinnitus back in 2010 and asked her to please be candid about my condition, for I felt I had reached a plateau with TRT and wasn't making any further improvement. She said I was the 2nd worst tinnitus patient that she had met in all her years practicing as an ENT doctor but will never give up on treating me.

She kept to her word and I will be eternally grateful to her and my Hearing Therapist for their help and support through one of the darkest periods of my life and I mean that in every sense of the word. Please click on the link below and read my post: My experience with tinnitus, where I explain more about my tinnitus when it increased to insurmountable levels in 2008 after a second noise trauma and the 4 years it took to get my life back on track and to habituate again.

I hope you are able to keep your PC tower at a safe distance from you, or change the HD to Solid-State and fit a quiet internal fan.

Michael

My Experience with Tinnitus | Tinnitus Talk Support Forum

 

[Contrast]

https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/

 

[Shizune]

In all seriousness though Michael, I am not calling you a SOB. I have nothing better to do.

While I have been shocked reading your interactions with others around the forum, I do have to respect your composure in this thread. And I understand your viewpoint now a bit better of being disappointed for years by so-called experts.

 

[Contrast]

@Michael Leigh's keyboard.

View attachment 41880

Could not not post this.

normies don't use keyboard shortcuts, they just right click and select paste. They always complain that keyboard shortcuts to interact with software is difficult.

 

[Liam_Cairns]

Wow Michael, that's a whole lot more of words to say a whole lot of nothing. You've extended your hatred beyond ENTs and audiologists and are now giving researchers like Pollard a bad wrap "I have idea who this Bryan Pollard figure and there's nothing he can't already tell me about tinnitus."

Embrace the future buddy, because you're going to be left in the dust.

I think your problem is because of the fact that you've had tinnitus for so long, you put yourself on a pedestal.

Thanks for the advice in the computer thread buddy, but that doesn't change your misinformed opinions at all. In fact, you were criticizing one user for not understanding what it's like to have extreme sound sensitivity like "me and weeab00" in one thread and telling me I was self-diagnosing misophonia in another. Which is it???

H Y P O C R I T E.

I've had tinnitus for 12 years. Do I get a big medal and get to call everyone else pussies and boss them around now?

 

[weab00]

Thank you for your comments @weab00. I appreciate you have addressed me by name and that I respect.

It was never my intention to express hatred towards ENT doctors or Audiologists for I've had a few caring for me over 24 years and have immense respect for them. In particular, my current Audiovestibular Consultant that I get along extremely well with and will never forget how she helped me when I reached my lowest ebb with tinnitus back in 2010 and asked her to please be candid about my condition, for I felt I had reached a plateau with TRT and wasn't making any further improvement. She said I was the 2nd worst tinnitus patient that she had met in all her years practicing as an ENT doctor but will never give up on treating me.

She kept to her word and I will be eternally grateful to her and my Hearing Therapist for their help and support through one of the darkest periods of my life and I mean that in every sense of the word. Please click on the link below and read my post: My experience with tinnitus, where I explain more about my tinnitus when it increased to insurmountable levels in 2008 after a second noise trauma and the 4 years it took to get my life back on track and to habituate again.

I hope you are able to keep your PC tower at a safe distance from you, or change the HD to Solid-State and fit a quiet internal fan.

Michael

My Experience with Tinnitus | Tinnitus Talk Support Forum

You misunderstood, you loooooove audiologists but hate researchers because they're eventually going to overthrow the TRT monopoly.

 

[Contrast]

 

[Michael Leigh]

You misunderstood, you loooooove audiologists but hate researchers because they're eventually going to overthrow the TRT monopoly.

Thank you for the clarification.

I don't quite understand your reason for posting a keyboard with the accompanying word copy in red? If you are implying or rather stating, I copy and paste previous posts you are mistaken, and thought I had made this clear to you and Contrast a short while ago. Some of the wording in my posts will be similar because I mostly advise and write about Noise induced tinnitus and hyperacusis as these are my areas of interest. Each post is typed new from start to finish on my keyboard. Since you and others may still have doubts please continue reading.

I am a self taught touch typist and learnt the skill many years ago on a manual typewriter. I am a professional carpenter & joiner. After arriving home each evening from work, settled down to follow touch typing exercises from a book. This was long before I had a computer and tinnitus. At the time I was unaware how much learning to type would benefit me and the doors it would open which is another story. Therefore, as a carpenter enjoys working with wood so too does a person that likes to write, writes.

I have nothing against tinnitus researchers and certainly don't hate them. However, when someone with a medical degree, PhD or letters after his or her name, claims to know about tinnitus and hyperacusis I am not so easily enamoured. Just because they are educated, articulate and able to write well doesn't make them experts in these fields. Do they really know and understand the depths severe tinnitus and hyperacusis can take a person to? How these conditions can affect a person's mental and emotional well-being to the point they want to cause their early demise? I certainly do because I've been there.

Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

In all seriousness though Michael, I am not calling you a SOB. I have nothing better to do.

I am pleased to hear it.

While I have been shocked reading your interactions with others around the forum,

I am somewhat surprised that you have been shocked reading my interactions with some members on the forum. If you care to elaborate I'd appreciate it. I do not use profanity. I can be direct when provoked, this usually occurs when someone has become a persistent nuisance, which eventually leads to placing them on ignore. If a person is polite and respectful I will respond in kind.

Michael